Biden today repeated the falsest version of his claim about where he'd stood on the Iraq War

[melman]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

please note: this comes from CNN

[janterry]

1. oh, geez

that's just not okay

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

4. NO IT'S NOT... THAT'S WHY WE THE PEOPLE PUT OUR TRUST IN BERNIE TO BE HONEST & KEEP HIS PROMISES!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

17. Disqualifying

[Hortensis]

87. Lol, Politico's calling this "WHACK-A-JOE."

"Many activist groups expected the former veep to crumble by now." That's what comes of people believing their own propaganda.

"The progressive movement is kicking off 2020 with a full-scale, whack-a-Joe mobilization against the former vice president, marked by intensified attacks and protests designed to bloody Biden in advance of the Iowa caucuses."

My favorite headline's The Week's, though: "Biden's Free Ride Is Over."



Seriously, running campaigns like this, Sanders is once again making everything very nasty, benefiting only the Republicans, and then he's going to lose. Again. As he so deserves to.

[Sloumeau]

2. The Bush Administration lied to everyone about Iraq.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/20/18274228/ari-fleischer-iraq-lies-george-w-bush-wmds

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/9/12123022/george-w-bush-lies-iraq-war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/22/iraq-war-wmds-an-intelligence-failure-or-white-house-spin/

Even Trump said Bush lied about Iraq:

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/18/trump-is-right-bush-lied-a-little-known-part-of-the-bogus-case-for-war/

[Autumn]

6. We knew it was all a lie. So did the politicians. They ignored all the calls & letters and

protests. If posters here could figure it out so could they, but they chose to vote for it anyway.

[redqueen]

23. Yep. This. nt

[babylonsister]

26. That should not mean Biden gets a pass. nt

[totodeinhere]

62. Yes, and anyone with any sense should not have believed those lies. I know i didn't believe it.

Neither did Bernie. So why was Joe naive enough to believe the lies? Do we really want someone with such poor judgement in the White House when we can have Bernie?

[ms liberty]

64. They lied. We here at DU did not believe their lies.

It was obvious what was happening; and to suggest that no one knew is an insult to all our intelligence.

[Sloumeau]

65. The people at DU did not believe their lies?

How did people at DU know that the Bush Administration was lying?

[ms liberty]

66. Yes. You're welcome to look it up in the archives n/t

[jberryhill]

77. Are you joking?

You've never heard of the International Atomic Energy Agency or the reports of UN inspectors?

How did we know? BECAUSE WE CAN READ.

[BeckyDem]

78. +1

[Hassin Bin Sober]

98. Plus 1

Unbelievable...

[True Blue American]

76. 100%

[Act_of_Reparation]

82. Are you suggesting Biden was fooled by the lie?

Because I wasn't.

And I'm pretty sure you weren't, either. Or anyone else here.

[crazytown]

3. Biden: "I do think it was a just war" June 29, 2003.

WaPo fact checks Biden’s claim that he opposed the Iraq War the ‘moment it started’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/09/bidens-claim-that-he-opposed-iraq-war-moment-it-started/

WaPo Update: Biden told New Hampshire voters that he made a “misrepresentation” when he said he opposed the war immediately .

Looks like he has changed his mind.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. Joe changed his mind? HOW CONVEEENIENT! Bernie OTOH is CONSISTENT in his sound foreign policy

Last edited Wed Jan 8, 2020, 10:19 AM - Edit history (1)

decisions, including his vote against the IWR. For that, and a whole host of other reasons, Bernie deserves to be the nominee of the Democratic Party.

a
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[samnsara]

57. bs has a foreign policy? im not sure ive read it anywhere

[Magoo48]

80. What does that have to do with Joe's stance on the Iraq war?

[George II]

101. Riiight.

[Autumn]

7. Good grief.

[Sloumeau]

9. The Iraq War started March 20, 2003, so Biden apparently believed the Bush lies for a few months.

[progressoid]

27. That he would believe Bush is hardly reassuring.

In fact, it's kind of troubling.

[totodeinhere]

63. "Misrepresentation?" That's understatement of the year. LOL. n/t

[booley]

8. reminds me of 2004

and that didn't go well

[vsrazdem]

10. LOL, if this was Bernie they would be saying "This is disqualifying". It's laughable.

[Demsrule86]

13. It is disqualifying for Bernie...he signed on that he would not attack Democrats...oops

[still_one]

15. Hiring Briana Joy Gray, a proud Jill Stein supporter speaks volumes about the

Sanders campaign

[Demsrule86]

19. It does and he hired Nina Turner too...who was helped by both Clintons and behaved very badly...

promoted Stein...and of course Sirota.

[melman]

16. This comes from CNN

[Demsrule86]

18. It began on twitter...I saw it...and was picked up by CNN.

[melman]

20. No it didn't

This is a tweet from a CNN fact checker about real statements made by Biden. Stop trying to deflect.

[booley]

69. I am confused

Biden lying is bad for Sanders because Sanders shouldn't' contrast himself against the other Democrats he is in competition with?!
Not sure you quite grok what a primary is.

[LanternWaste]

22. I'd bet a paycheck you fail to see the irony in your having said that.

[samnsara]

59. no they would not..

[DownriverDem]

11. How about

focusing on what is going on with Iran right now?

[melman]

12. How about realizing that it's all connected

[Demsrule86]

14. Bernie also voted for war...and said he made a mistake...much later.

[progressoid]

29. In Afghanistan. Has he been falsely claiming he didn't vote for it?

[Bradshaw3]

21. Yeah I'm sure the repubs will agree to that in the GE

These Biden supporters keep pretending that all the excuses and putdowns and keeping their head in the sand they use will work just great when it comes to November, so everyone should just keep quiet now and not worry about any of Biden's past or present statements or flaws. It won't work.

[BannonsLiver]

25. Keep litigating 2003

That’ll really help Bernie.

[melman]

30. Have you seen the news lately?

Turns out Iraq is a pretty current story.

[BannonsLiver]

33. I think

The problem those who hope that this can somehow be used as a political bludgeon to hamper or derail Biden’s campaign have is that fundamentally Americans blame W for the Iraq war.

I know in some people’s eyes it’s trendy-fashionable-woke to fault of people like Biden or HRC more so than Bush for Iraq, but in practice and in reality, thinking people, fair people, place the blame where it belongs. On W. So in that sense while I know some are hopeful, it’s just not going to work for those reasons. But hey, good luck.

[redqueen]

34. Thinking people, fair people, know that Congress is supposed to be a check on executive power.

In declarations of war, that check is excruciatingly critical.

Failures of judgment in that area do not get to be written off so simplistically, but good try.

[cwydro]

39. This.

[melman]

35. So if it's all so inconsequential

why do you suppose he feels the need to fudge the facts on his support? Seems like there might be a contradiction there.

[redqueen]

41. "fudge the facts" - we're so forgiving when it's our team. nt

[melman]

44. No

We're trying to be careful because we know people have itchy fingers. This thread was already removed once.

[Voltaire2]

48. Right here Biden's "foreign policy creds" were being touted as the latest crisis developed.

You can't have it both ways.

[BannonsLiver]

51. Nobody cares, dude.

People blame W anyway. Better come up with something better than that if you want Bernie as the nominee.

[Voltaire2]

58. A lot of people care, 'dude'.

Better come up with something better than that if you want Biden as the nominee.

[still_one]

31. Julian Castro endorsed the DEMOCRAT Elizabeth Warren today

[melman]

32. That's wonderful

What does it have to do with this story?

[melman]

36. bump

[NYMinute]

37. It misrepresents Biden

Biden was opposed to the war .... he voted for it for national interest.

Just as Biden opposes abortion but has always voted for a woman's right to choose.

No falsehood there.

[melman]

38. Oh really?

Pray tell, what was the "national interest" in the Iraq invasion? Dying to hear this one.

[NYMinute]

40. Yes, really

At the time, no one was 100% sure that Saddam didn't have WMD. The country was scared after 9/11.

I'll give you this, Bernie has a perfect hindsight and is exploiting it to no end.

[melman]

45. So what was the national interest?

I can't help but notice you left that out.

[BlueWI]

46. There were UN inspectors on the ground in Iraq when the war started

and plenty of skepticism about the WMD claims, especially from the left. Give credit where credit is due. 15 million of us protested. Did you?

The nonsense about aluminum tubes and mobile labs were for suckers. Did you believe that crap?

The Biden-run hearings in the Senate Foreign Relations committee were pro forma. And in the end, poor decisions were made despite plenty of opposition to the war in the Democratic caucus and in the street. The vote was an error in judgment that Biden has already admitted.

Why obfuscate further? Leave rewriting history to the Republicans, and own your mistakes.

[Voltaire2]

50. So we should invade every country that we cannot prove "100%" doesn't have nukes?

Seriously?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

99. Yeah people were scared after 9/11

But Iraq had zero to do with 9/11

Our leaders are supposed to calm fears. Not gin up a bullshit war. At least that’s what some leaders did. Others jumped on the bandwagon.

[LanternWaste]

100. We should also avoid ginning up allegations of "unhinged attacks"

where others simply disagree with our opinions, else we ourselves being to look 'unhinged' and lose any credibility we may otherwise have.




Regardless of bandwagons, station-wagons or welcome wagons.

[ehrnst]

102. Some were way out ahead of the bomb Iraq bandwagon.. in 1998 even.

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."


Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

103. Lol. People who keep harping in those bills should actually...

... read them.

I mean you literally posted a link to something you say authorized “bombing” when it said no such thing. It was typical opposition assistance and specifically spelled out it was to go no further:

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.

[ehrnst]

104. Lol. It was disturbing enough to you to respond to.

[LanternWaste]

106. That appears an unhinged implication.

[ehrnst]

108. So, you're going to ignore his 1998 vote for military action in Iraq as being not a vote for war...

Like you ignored Hillary's vote for the Iraq Resolution, as not being a vote for war, because she got up on the Senate floor and stated that it was not a vote for war, but a vote for leverage for POTUS to use and take to the UN.

Like that?

It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.

How does one support the efforts to remove the regime other than by using weapons? By giving them paper on which to write a strongly worded letter asking the regime to change?

Maybe you missed this part at the link:

(2) MILITARY ASSISTANCE- (A) The President is authorized to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense, defense services of the Department of Defense, and military education and training for such organizations.

(B) The aggregate value (as defined in section 644(m) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961) of assistance provided under this paragraph may not exceed $97,000,000.

And you certainly skirted around this vote in your response:

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

I can imagine why...

[George II]

68. Distraction. It misrepresents Biden.

[melman]

70. No it's not and no it doesn't

[ehrnst]

94. Perhaps you should ask Bernie

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."


Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

[redqueen]

42. Has he disavowed his opposition to late term abortion?

Or does he still think there's a point at which the government should step in between a woman and her doctor?

[ehrnst]

95. Has Bernie acknowledged yet that women getting abortions for sex-selections in the US

is a RW myth and not "a problem that needs to be addressed?"

https://www.thecut.com/2019/05/why-did-bernie-sanders-repeat-an-anti-choice-talking-point.html

That would require that he admit that he was wrong and had something to learn, so I don't think it's forthcoming.

[redqueen]

96. Ugh. I get that they're old but they should be able to admit they were wrong and move on.

To be fair, though, at least sex selective abortion is a definite problem at least in some parts of the world.

The "late term abortion" junk is potentially so harmful to women and families facing what are often excruciatingly tragic situations.

So although they both get a black mark on this issue, imo, on balance, Biden's is definitely worse.

[Politicub]

43. If it was for national interest, then were the 21 democrats who voted nay...

devoid of a sense of "national interest"?

I don't understand Biden's motivations to vote for the war. But somehow revising history to say that there was a national interest in voting for the war ignores the reality of the millions of Americans and the large number of democratic elected officials who opposed the war.

[BlueWI]

47. THIS.

Let's hope Biden learned from the vote, because this crisis will continue during his presidency.

[Voltaire2]

49. lulzd

[still_one]

56. yes it does, but that is what people like Hillary hating Sirtoa specialize in

Biden and others DID oppose going into Iraq and demanded "proof"

that is when the bush administration came up with their WMD fiasco and got Colin Powell to ruin his reputation convincing skeptical democrats to support the IWR that BushCo sent to Congress.

Democrats, including Biden gave Bush hell and delayed his efforts. Then came the lie about WMDs and that shot the legs from under the democratic congress people's efforts to force Bush to take a saner route.

[OhZone]

52. This is the most irrelevant BS I can think of

Bush lied to everyone and even faked evidence. Most of the country and a lot of the world was fooled.

We should ALWAYS be angry with Bush and company, not the people who were fooled by him, and thought they were doing the right thing for going along.

Geez

[still_one]

54. yup, and of course they are intentionally distorting what actually happened

Biden and others DID oppose going into Iraq and demanded "proof"

that is when the bush administration came up with their WMD fiasco and got Colin Powell to ruin his reputation convincing skeptical democrats to support the IWR that BushCo sent to Congress.

Democrats, including Biden gave Bush hell and delayed his efforts. Then came the lie about WMDs and that shot the legs from under the democratic congress people's efforts to force Bush to take a saner route.

[Magoo48]

81. "Most of the country and a lot of the world was fooled". Can you reference any support here?

[OhZone]

88. Really?

Weren't ya paying attention back then?



Most people were fooled and approved the war at first.

[Act_of_Reparation]

83. You are suggesting Biden was fooled?

By George W. Bush?

...

And you think this man should be president?

[still_one]

53. Biden and others DID oppose going into Iraq and demanded "proof"

that is when the bush administration came up with their WMD fiasco and got Colin Powell to ruin his reputation convincing skeptical democrats to support the IWR that BushCo sent to Congress.

Democrats, including Biden gave Bush hell and delayed his efforts. Then came the lie about WMDs and that shot the legs from under the democratic congresspeople's efforts to force Bush to take a saner route.

This is the misrepresentation from Sirota that comes out of the Sanders camp, and why he will not get my vote in the primary

The hiring of Briana Joy Gray and Hillary hating David Sirota speak volumes of what Sanders actually think about the Democratic party

He is a divisive person.

[melman]

60. Does David Sirota run CNN now?

I hadn't heard about that.

[George II]

67. But some will forever zero in on that one vote even about 20 years later.....

....as though nothing has happened since.

Actually, for at least one of our candidates and his "accomplishments", nothing HAS happened since.

[Act_of_Reparation]

86. Oh bullshit.

No one was "fooled" by Colin Powell and George W. Bush.

Come on, man. These people aren't stupid. They weren't tricked, swindled, bamboozled, or fooled. They voted to authorize the war because it was popular, and they knew opposing it could cost them their seats. So they did what was easy instead of what was right.

[Kentonio]

89. Bingo!

[ehrnst]

105. You mean that they were representing the will of their constituents?

Hm....

[betsuni]

107. +1

[samnsara]

55. smh

[betsuni]

71. Bernie: "Well, look, sometimes in a large bill you have to vote for things you don't like."

It wasn't a case of voting: A horrible long war with Iraq, Yes or No. As everybody knows.

[melman]

72. Are you sure that's the thing you want to bring up to defend Biden?

[betsuni]

73. Bernie voted against gun control, immigration reform, Russian oligarch sanctions.

I prefer a more progressive candidate.

[melman]

74. So you don't want to discuss the Hyde Amendment

Okay but if that's the case you probably shouldn't have brought it up.

[betsuni]

79. Jog on, jog on, the footpath way. And merrily hent the stile-a; A merry heart goes all the day,

Your sad tires in a mile-a.

[melman]

85. Irrelevant nonsense

And yes I know it's Shakespeare but still. It's irrelevant nonsense.




So let's review this exchange here. You brought up the Hyde Amendment to slam Sanders, then when confronted with the fact that it's a really not a good issue for Biden, like, at all...your only response was the tired old poetry schtick.


Okay.

[betsuni]

91. Hey, nonny no!

Men are fools that wish to die!
Is't not fine to dance and sing
When the bells of death do ring?
Is't not fine to swim in wine,
And turn upon the toe,
And sing Hey, nonny no!
When the winds blow and the seas flow?
Hey, nonny no!

[ehrnst]

92. +1000

[ehrnst]

93. Somebody's red herring didn't work...

[Joe941]

75. Biden is running from his record.

[Mersky]

84. Biden opposed the Gulf War (1990-91) from the beginning

Last edited Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Is it possible that he could have had long-standing resistance to military action against Iraq, but reluctantly voted for action after 9/11 based on the bush administration push with claims of WMDs, etc? Yes. Seems he DID have a different idea in his initial work with Lugar, and before the unfortunate vote (see below).

I wonder if this is what he’s meant all along, but hasn’t been able to explain for reasons that can’t fit into a sound bite for these gotcha moments.

And if he seems defensive, perhaps that’s because holding up his vote for the Iraq War (2003) as evidence of being some kind of unilateralist warhawk is inconsistent with his record and reputation. No one insinuates this with Bernie, and really shouldn’t with Biden either.

___
References below pulled from citations 121 & 127 as seen on Joe Biden’s Wikipedia page on January 8, 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/13/world/confrontation-gulf-congress-acts-authorize-war-gulf-margins-are-5-votes-senate.html

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware, scorned the other members of the anti-Iraq coalition, "a coalition that has allowed us to take on 95 percent of the sacrifice across the board."

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-aug-24-na-foreignpol24-story.html

When the current Bush administration began pushing for war with Iraq, Biden was less enthusiastic. He had voted against authorization for the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Now he joined Lugar in drafting legislation that would have authorized the president to take action to eliminate weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but not to remove Saddam Hussein.

And the two senators wanted to require United Nations authorization before any military action could be taken.

Biden was undercut, however, by House Democratic Leader Richard A. Gephardt, who got behind a more sweeping war authorization. Biden nonetheless voted for the war authorization.

[TidalWave46]

90. "Falsest"

[Hortensis]

97. We want to elect a president for domestic policy, but more than ever

since WWII and the post-war cold war era we are forced to also choose a foreign-policy president who can oversee putting the planet as well as our nation back on course. When I look over the field, Biden is the one who can do both well, and the only one.

299 days to November 3 and electing a real president and Democrat congress who'll work well together to make real things happen.