If Bernie Sanders Somehow Becomes the Democratic Nominee,

[MineralMan]

It doesn't matter what he says or does after that point. Here is the ad that will be run by the GOP nonstop during the General Election Campaign:



I guarantee it.

[crazytown]

1. " If Bernie Sanders Somehow Becomes the Democratic Nominee"

I will pull the lever for him eom.

[JoeOtterbein]

6. Me too!

Hell I'll even vote for Bloomberg, and even yes, Biden. IF I have to.

[MineralMan]

17. Yes, and so will I, of course.

That does not change what I posted.

[LongtimeAZDem]

23. Of course; I would hope everyone here wiill. But we'll lose.

[empedocles]

52. Bingo

[Tiggeroshii]

77. Like last time?

[TexasTowelie]

93. What is the point of that comment other than to bash a Democrat?

[Tiggeroshii]

96. We will lose if we choose the wrong candidate.

Let's not repeat ourselves.

[exboyfil]

31. Will the highest number of voters in Wisconsin

pull that lever? That is the question.

[brooklynite]

82. I'll vote for him, with certainty that he'll lose.

[SKKY]

104. Likewise.

[evertonfc]

2. He's not

going to be the nominee. If so, I think you'll see a 3rd party run by a billionaire. In fact, I impact will.

[crazytown]

4. " In fact, I impact will"

Translated from the German?

[evertonfc]

10. yes.

my mom's sisters boyfriend is 1/4 German and I'm taking lessons from him at The pub on Tuesdays.

[YOHABLO]

3. Oh so you think people won't vote for a Democratic Socialist?

We already know what corporate media is doing to the Sander's campaign.

[evertonfc]

11. I know Lots of people that

wouldn't. I mean, that's a title that is a problem in large swaths of America.

[NurseJackie]

15. Nobody in my family would... they've told me so.

[oldsoftie]

54. I know 2 trump voters who will stay hime if Biden is the nominee. But...

...they wont stay home if Sanders or Warren is the nominee.

[NurseJackie]

59. So many things to consider.

[YOHABLO]

28. Well I guess we'll cross the bridge when we come to it.

[totodeinhere]

72. Then those are the people that we need to reach.

They have obviously fallen for propaganda and when we tell then the truth they will listen. I know that from my own experience.

[TexasTowelie]

102. .

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." -- Maya Angelou

[Joe941]

85. Wait a minute here! Bernie supporters have taken heat for years for the 2016 loss.

Because some didnt vote for Clinton. Now you are saying the exact opposite that democratic voters wont vote BS? Sounds like hypocrisy to me.... just saying.

[TexasTowelie]

95. Sounds like people that remember things well to me.

Members on DU are expected to support Democratic candidates in the general election. The general population of voters is not held to the same expectations.

[MineralMan]

19. Enough people won't to make the difference.

That's why the GOP will blanket the country with that clip. He said it. There is other video, as well, of him saying it.

It still matters to many voters.

[NurseJackie]

26. Interviewer: "Are you a Socialist?" --- Bernie: "Yep."

Link to tweet

[oldsoftie]

63. And of that 37% who approve, most of them probably dont really know what it is.

Some people think its simply "free healthcare"

[Aquaria]

38. I'm further to the left than most Democratic Socialists

And I will never vote for him voluntarily.

I know a panderer to white male privilege when I see one, and I don't vote for that unless I have no other choice.

[comradebillyboy]

53. Most Democrats won't vote for a socialist. And don't neglect to look at

what Bernie is doing to his own campaign with terrible endorsements and dreadful hires for his staff. "Corporate Media" and evil neo-liberals didn't make him endorse Cenk.

[Joe941]

86. So the hypocrisy is rampant you are saying.

Bernie supporters have been berated for years for the 2016 loss. Now you are saying democratic voters wont vote for Bernie? Who will be to blame then?!

[thesquanderer]

90. 65% of Dems have a positive view of socialism. Only 55% have a positive view of capitalism.

Source:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/25/stark-partisan-divisions-in-americans-views-of-socialism-capitalism/

[TexasTowelie]

99. Yes, but the majority of the electorate is not comprised of Democrats.

The swing voters are independents. What do the polls say about whether they prefer socialism or capitalism?

[thesquanderer]

100. Actually, that figure was for Dems + Dem-leaning Independents. As for the public as a whole,

that info is at the same link. I posted what I did because I was responding to a post about what Dems would vote for. But sure, once you count Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, opinions shift, as you'll see there.

OTOH, you have to keep in mind that a big chunk of those Republicans polled are not going to vote for ANY of the Dem candidates, socialist or not. Once you factor THOSE out, the percent with a positive view of socialism should shift back upwards... but the poll does not break that out so does not tell us by how much. (Maybe other polls do...?)

[rampartc]

5. don't forget the empty grocery shelves in venezuela and

the babushka ladies lining up in the snow for cabbages.

but don't overestimate them. whoever our nominee will be, they a godless commie as far as the repubs are concerned.

[MineralMan]

20. Yes. They'll call any Democratic candidate a Socialist.

But, only one has said so, and there's video of that. Makes a difference.

[thesquanderer]

92. The people who care most about this thought Obama was a socialist. (n/t)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. He won't be the nominee, but of course I'll vote for him if that happened.

I'd worry a lot about the outcome, though.

[highplainsdem]

8. I'll vote for Sanders if I have to, but I believe he has almost no chance of being our nominee, and

I don't know what chance he'd have in the GE after Trump and the GOP spend as much time going after him as they've spent going after Biden, the one Democratic candidate they really fear.

[TwilightZone]

9. The funny part is that he's not.

Certainly not in the European sense. Not that it will matter to anyone on the right.

I think the fact that he considers himself a socialist (more recently, he's added the "Democratic" qualifier, as if that's going to matter to the average voter) isn't as important as the fact that he seems to have difficulty explaining what that means or countering the stereotypes to which the label is often attached.

[MineralMan]

18. That doesn't matter. He said he is.

That's the ad.

[TwilightZone]

35. Oh, I agree.

It's a label that he's attached to himself, whether or not it's accurate, and it's pretty difficult to remove something like that once it's applied.

[LongtimeAZDem]

27. It doesn't matter; he claims to be one, and they'll run ads with his support of communist

dictators, and his association with crowds chanting "here, there, everywhere, the Yankee will die".

If that's not enough, there will be the "deadbeat dad" ads, the "never had a job" ads, the "pervasive culture of sexual hostility and violence" ads. And now, we'll have the "endorsed a bestiality advocate" ads.

If we make him our nominee, we will lose, and lose badly.

[lapucelle]

12. A Newsweek reporter said he saw the oppo book on BS that Repubicans had compiled for the last GE.

There were "environmental racist" billboards ready to go that referenced Sierra Blanca.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/8/1481494/-Sierra-Blanca-Bernie-Sanders-Paul-Wellstone-a-Poor-Minority-Community-and-a-Nuclear-Waste-Dump

[NurseJackie]

14. That's a biggie.

There were "environmental racist" billboards ready to go that referenced Sierra Blanca.

That's a biggie.

[lapucelle]

22. The Republicans are keeping their powder dry when it comes to some of the Democratic

primary candidates.

I wonder why.

[Aquaria]

106. And that's before getting to his hunky wife

Or why a “socialist” owns three expensive homes.

Or how he’s been in DC for 30 years but has so few legislative achievements to show for it.

Or some of his more idiotic remarks about women and sexuality.

And his supporters have zero right to trash Biden over Anita Hill when their self-serving hero has numerous incidents of acting like a jackass about women, and many of his are of far more recent vintage. Joe, at least, has learned to stop talking down to women or brown people. He may not be the brightest guy out there, but he’s smart enough to learn from his mistakes.

BS, not so much.

[brush]

13. If he does, trump wins a 2nd term and perhaps a 3rd as our democracy dies...

and an unindictable, untouchable strongman continues smashing our institutions.

[left-of-center2012]

16. Bernie won't draw the swing voters we need

just sayin'

[aikoaiko]

21. Maybe this is what democracy looks like.

If Bernie is our nominee, it will be because the voters wish it.

[MineralMan]

24. The voters who bother to show up for the primaries, anyhow.

You're right. Those voters who care enough to vote in primaries decide who our nominee will be. Sometimes we win. I'm always hopeful. Sadly, I was disappointed last time. I hope for a better result in 2020.

[dchill]

29. I, too, am a socialist.

I, too, am a socialist.
I, too, am a socialist.
I, too, am a socialist.
I, too, am a socialist.
I, too, am a socialist.
I, too, am a socialist.

[brutus smith]

30. Me too! Better than being a corporatist like some candidates.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

37. Yup, yup... thankfully the Democratic base will not nominate a corporatist, so not to worry.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Aquaria]

41. Well, keep living in denial there

But the person who gets the nomination will be more moderate than you're expecting.

That's because the base isn't the "progressives." It's women and minorities, particularly black women, and the vast majority of them land nowhere beyond center-left on the political spectrum.

[ismnotwasm]

56. Sure are a lot of socialists around here

Or more than I’d expect claiming to be socialist. Not even Democratic Socialist, but deep in the the purity that is Socialism.

Which is interesting, given how there had never been a successful modern socialist state. I guess the US will just have to be the first? Is that the thinking?

[TwilightZone]

36. Your candidate isn't.

She's been quite vocal about that fact. A good move politically, not to mention accurate.

[dchill]

47. That's fine. I'm just trying to have a "Spartacus Moment."

[comradebillyboy]

58. Spartacus and all his followers were crucified along the Appian Way

as an object lesson to others. Just a historical reminder about Spartacus and his followers.

[dchill]

74. Buzzkill.

[The Valley Below]

78. I'm definitely not Spartacus.

[YOHABLO]

32. I think we should wait till after the primaries to continue this discussion.

I'm not sure at this point who are candidate will be, but I will support who ever the Party decides to be their candidate. I'm tired of the back and forth. I consider myself a Democratic Socialist, but realize there is much at stake for the Oligarchs if we were ever to start caring about people rather than huge profits. I remember a little chant that a previous politician use to squelch out: ''Change will Come''. Boy, has it ever.

[MineralMan]

33. We will all vote for our party's nominee.

However, during this time, we are still deciding who that nominee will be. Everything should be considered in that decision, including what the opposition will do.

The goal is to select a nominee who can win the election, in my opinion. All of our candidates, or almost all of them, would represent us reasonable well if elected. But, we can discuss now who has better or worse chances of winning, I think. Now is precisely the time to do that.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

40. Absolutely, which is PRECISELY why Bernie WILL be the nominee... no question!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Aquaria]

42. Yawn

Keep dreaming. Women and minorities don't trust him. With good reason.

[brutus smith]

60. And after Anita Hill they trust Joe?

[MineralMan]

45. Not so fast, there...

We haven't even had our first caucus or primary. Don't get ahead of yourself.

[YOHABLO]

46. DU is not extension of all Dems; not every Dem or voter participates on this site.

What's decided here does not reflect the rest of the voting population. There's much to be considered and much can change over this coming year. There seems to be a consensus that a progressive, (left wing of the party) if you will, will not be able to beat Trump, regardless of the polling that seems to differ on that issue. As of now, we don't really know where the country stands, that is until we hit the primaries.

[MineralMan]

48. We on DU don't even come close to mirroring all Democrats.

DU is predictive of nothing at all. It's a website where a self-selected small group of people discuss politics from a generally Democratic point of view. We have negligible influence on anything and tend to be more liberal than that country is. Our discussions are meaningful only to us.

And that's the truth.

[YOHABLO]

50. agree.

[samnsara]

34. all true dems will vote for whomever gets the nom..

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Yes and, fortunately, Biden's chances of getting the nomination are greatly diminished...

given his latest statements on the campaign trail. Of course, though it's unlikely, I'll vote for Joe if he does manage to get the nomination.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[NYMinute]

44. Democrats are not enough to win

we need independents by a 60-40 or better margin to win. BS will lose independents in droves because they are usually moderate.

[NYMinute]

43. Bernie could break McGovern's 1972 record nt

[Gothmog]

108. If sanders is the nominee, trump could win 45+ states

[CentralMass]

49. We all have opinions.

[MineralMan]

51. We do, indeed. But my post was not an opinion.

It accurately shows how the GOP will campaign against one of our candidates.

[dawg]

55. Well, I don't think Bernie will end up being our nominee, but ...

if he is, I think we should rally around him like he was JFK, FDR, and Abraham Lincoln all rolled into one.

Our nominee isn't gong to get just a half-hearted endorsement from me.

Shit has gotten too real.

[Gothmog]

57. There is a ton of oppo

There is a ton af really damaging material that would be used in a general election campaign

[MineralMan]

62. No doubt, and the Republicans will use all of it, regardless of

who is running.

On another subject, I was sorry not to be able to reply to the hidden post below. I was seconds too late, I guess. I got to read it, but not to reply to it. I guess I ruffled a feather or two.

[LongtimeAZDem]

65. They were a member of the forum for a whole 12 minutes :D

[MineralMan]

66. Perhaps it was someone coming back for a short visit.

Sure seemed to know who MineralMan is, though. Not that that's such a challenge, really.

[LongtimeAZDem]

67. I suspect it was a sock puppet for a current member

[MineralMan]

68. Hmm...I hadn't thought about that.

Oh, well. I recognize the nature of the personal attack, but not the style of it. However, it also referenced someone else, so maybe that's a clue. I'll have to think about it some more. It doesn't matter, though, really.

[Gothmog]

70. This is oppo just on sanders

I have seen a large amount of these oppo materials on sanders and these materials would be easy for trump to use.

[redstatebluegirl]

64. Yep the ads write themselves.

[Amimnoch]

69. I will support every Democratic Party candidate on my ballot. -eom.

[Voltaire2]

71. He's never denied it and will not back down.

People will respect him for that. Was that your point?

Or was your point that we better be really scared of republicans and run a do-nothing water-treading centrist who will offer to retain the status quo that has so many people so disaffected that they voted in a pompous nazi buffoon in 2016?

[Aquaria]

105. Name the "progressive" that has become POTUS.

And, no, FDR and Carter do not count. They never ran as anything more than moderately left. FDR couldn’t run any further left than that, because he couldn’t alienate the Dixiecrats. Even when he was acting as a leftist as POTUS, he could go only so far left. All those gubmint jobs and relief efforts? Few of them went to black or brown people, as they would have under a real leftist, because Dixiecrats would have bolted if FDR didn’t favor whites only.

Anyway, we do know what has happened to those who ran further left. I was still only a wee lass when Humphrey and McGovern ran, but I was working in California on that Mondale campaign. It was a disaster, and the other two never became POTUS, either.

I was also on the Ted Kennedy campaign when his leftie ass was slaughtered by Carter in 1980. Carter ran to the RIGHT of him, like he did against Jerry Brown and Mo Udall in 1976.

Why?

Because leftist POTUS candidates do not win at the general election ballot box. Never have, and it will be a long time before any ever will.

It’s a dismaying reality, but reality, nevertheless.

[Voltaire2]

107. Teddy Roosevelt nt

[aidbo]

73. So if he gets the nomination and loses (not that I think he will) -

Then do we Bernie supporters get to blame the supporters of all the other candidates for the loss?

That seems to be how it works around here.

[LongtimeAZDem]

76. If they protest at the convention, shout insults at prominent Democrats, advocate for third-party

candidates, and refuse to vote for the nominee?

Sure; fair's fair.

[Joe941]

89. +1000

[Hortensis]

79. If Sanders were in worst case to become the nominee,

most of his voters would finally be forced to learn about him what they have so far not bothered to. (The true believer types he's drawn would continue to believe only what he told them.)

Yes, the scandals the Republicans designed for him and that have been gathering dust since last time are no doubt massive lies, but those lies will be built around cores of facts. Like the fact that Hillary really did use her ex-president husband's powerfully secure home server, irrelevant that she complied with the rules for secure use, or that its security was so strong that there's never been any indication it was hacked, very unlike the lousy State Department system: Lock her up!

With the truths in Sanders' background, and the ignorance of almost all Americans about him (a blank national white board for the professional swiftboaters to draw whatever they want on), they're no doubt practically slathering and throwing themselves at their chains to be turned loose on a Sanders candidacy.

And, yes, of course he's always been a true believer in universalist (mostly socialist) ideas that would require government to take care of "the people" at the cost of important group and individual freedoms. For years he advocated a long list of institutions to be seized for communal ownership, although by the time he went to DC he learned to mostly shut up about that. But they'd make sure everyone knew all about that and much more.

Those who like him now should be careful what they wish for. But of course by the time they realized that, it'd be way too late.

[Tiggeroshii]

80. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

2000: nominated a centrist and lost.
2004: nominated a centrist and lost.
2016: nominated a centrist and lost.

Each of these times, the centrist was successfully labeled a leftist.

Centrists: "we cant run a leftist or he will be labelled a leftist!"

[quickesst]

81. if Bernie Sanders is the nominee....

.... I will vote for him, but I won't be voting for a Democrat.

[Joe941]

83. Socialism is something we need more of in the US!

This country is set up for the rich. It's time to take it back for the working people!

[Gothmog]

110. Washington Post-Analysis How Trump wins in 2020: Americans see his opponent as a "socialist

Link to tweet

But there is one matchup in which Trump actually leads: When voters have to choose between him and a candidate they believe is a “socialist,” Trump led 49 percent to 43 percent.

This is obviously a hypothetical exercise. The idea that the Democratic nominee will call themselves a socialist is far-fetched (even Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont prefers to be called a “democratic socialist&quot . And just because Trump argues that his opponent is a socialist doesn’t mean they will be viewed by everyone — or even most people — accordingly.

But the finding does hint at how central this question could be to Trump’s reelection hopes. Given Trump’s long-standing unpopularity, a big question has always been whether he will be able to take the eventual Democratic nominee and drag them down to his level. He showed he could do it in 2016 with Hillary Clinton, who ended the campaign as unpopular as Trump was, but it’s not clear whether he’ll be able to do it again.

Trump also has some material to work with. The Democratic candidates in the first debate two weeks ago went further to the left on issues such as health care and immigration than in any modern Democratic primary. Many of them embraced single-payer health care, and some even said they would eliminate private health insurance. Many said they would decriminalize crossing the border without documentation, making it a civil matter. And many said they would support health-care coverage for undocumented immigrants, which California only recently became the first state to experiment with.

[cwydro]

84. Yep.

Or that video of him in his underwear drinking vodka with his Russian pals.

I shudder to think.

[brutus smith]

87. Wow! Bernie really gets under some people's skin.

Bernie and Elizabeth are FDR Democrats.

[myohmy2]

88. that could be...

...a deepfake video...nah

...Bernie's never run from the fact he's Democratic Socialist, neither should we...

...nothing to be embarrassed about when you consider capitalists have nearly destroyed our country, transformed our economy into a 1% ponzi scheme while raping our poor planet in the process...and they've put us into the Constitutional and politic mess we're in today...

...there are leaders who will lead by following and then there are leaders who will lead by leading...by showing and taking us into the future with their vision...by convincing us this is the America we want/need and this is how we get there...

...not to worry, Bernie will leading by leading...

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

91. He won't be

So no worries.

[LongtimeAZDem]

94. I'm far more concerned about what he's going to do to us when he doesn't

[Algernon Moncrieff]

98. They will run nasty ads no matter who the nominee is

If it's Warren or Bernie, it'll be red-baiting. If it is Biden, they'll push the Ukraine/Burisma (sp?) narrative? If it's Mayor Pete, they'll question whether he's moral enough to be President (i.e. smear him for being Gay).

We can't live in fear of these things. We need to support our nominee, whoever it is, and consider how to counterpunch and how to most effectively attack Donald Trump.

[TexasTowelie]

101. Well,

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." -- Maya Angelou

[MineralMan]

103. That's very true, and universally so, I think.

People definitely should look closely at the history of those they consider choosing as their leaders.

Then, since almost everyone has things from the past that can be seen as negative, people should look to see what the people they are supporting have done more recently. People make mistakes; people change; people are who they are.

[Gothmog]

109. Bernie Sanders wants Americans to buy into socialism. He's got some convincing to do.

Link to tweet

Republicans are downright giddy about all this. What’s a scarier term to the American public than “socialist”? And with one of the leaders in the Democratic Party embracing it, their pitch to voters that Democrats want to radically change the country to something unrecognizable just got a lot easier.

“You add up things like packing the Supreme Court, getting rid of the electoral college, the Green New Deal and Medicare for none and you have a prescription of turning America into something it never has been and never should be,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said recently. “So we intend to be on the offense in running our races."

“We’re going into the war with some socialists,” Trump told a fundraiser in April.

This could be the defining debate of the 2020 election. Trump is so happy with that. Sanders is fine with that. The rest of the candidates aren’t so sure. But given the way this debate is shaping up, they may have no choice but to pick a side.

[Polybius]

111. Just please support him if he does

That's all I ask.

[MineralMan]

112. Of course. I'd ask the same.

I always vote for the Democratic nominee. Even when I know we'll lose. I've been doing that since 1968.

[Polybius]

113. Thank you

I will definitely support Biden if he wins too.