Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ CALLS OUT PETE BUTTIGIEG FOR 'SAD' ARGUMENT AGAINST FREE COLLEGE FOR ALL IN
CAMPAIGN AD
(snip)
"Universal systems that benefit everyone are stronger [because] everyone's invested!," Ocasio-Cortez added.
(snip)
The congresswoman then argued that when certain peoplein this case, Buttigieg's "kids of millionaires"are deliberately excluded from public services, "cracks in the system develop."
Furthermore, the legislator argued, children from rich families often want to attend private "Ivyesque" universities, which would not be covered by "tuition-free public college."
Ocasio-Cortez added that it would be beneficial "to have classrooms (from pre-k through college!) to be socioeconomically integrated. Having students from different incomes & backgrounds in the same classroom is good for society & economic mobility."
(snip)
https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-calls-out-pete-buttigieg-sad-argument-against-tuition-free-college-new-1474809
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
H2O Man
(73,581 posts)Alexandria is outstanding. She is my kind of Democrat.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)AOC is the best rookie US Rep I've ever seen in my long life!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
democrank
(11,098 posts)Bottom up, not top down.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
evertonfc
(1,713 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)As opposed to schools where people are sorted according to SES
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
H2O Man
(73,581 posts)It's interesting -- what seems obvious to some of us appears hidden to others.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)of willfull ignorance involved when claiming not to understand the phrase. Especially when it is explained in AOC's comments.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lucky Luciano
(11,258 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,335 posts)https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/integrated?q=Integrated
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)She sure is smart! Now I have to find SES.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)Research shows that racial and socioeconomic diversity in the classroom can provide students with a range of cognitive and social benefits. And school policies around the country are beginning to catch up. Today, over 4 million students in America are enrolled in school districts or charter schools with socioeconomic integration policiesa number that has more than doubled since 2007.
Students in integrated schools have higher average test scores. On the 2011 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) given to fourth graders in math, for example, low-income students attending more affluent schools scored roughly two years of learning ahead of low-income students in high-poverty schools.1 Controlling carefully for students family background, another study found that students in mixed-income schools showed 30 percent more growth in test scores over their four years in high school than peers with similar socioeconomic backgrounds in schools with concentrated poverty.2
Students in integrated schools are more likely to enroll in college. When comparing students with similar socioeconomic backgrounds, those students at more affluent schools are 68 percent more likely to enroll at a four-year college than their peers at high-poverty schools.3
(snip)
Integrated classrooms encourage critical thinking, problem solving, and creativity. We know that diverse classrooms, in which students learn cooperatively alongside those whose perspectives and backgrounds are different from their own, are beneficial to all studentsincluding middle-class white studentsbecause these environments promote creativity, motivation, deeper learning, critical thinking, and problem-solving skills.10
(snip)
https://tcf.org/content/facts/the-benefits-of-socioeconomically-and-racially-integrated-schools-and-classrooms/?session=1
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....(which again is a misnomer) isn't a "SAD ARGUMENT AGAINST" it (all caps like the subject).
Why do certain politicians/candidates have to characterize a difference of opinion? Simply saying "I disagree, and here's why..." sure beats the derogatory "sad argument", and it would get a better reception rather than immediately put people off.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)in the OP and honestly I don't believe you can.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....it's only a bunch of words tied together by her to bash another candidate's solution to a problematic issue.
Note I didn't call HER "argument" sad.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LiberalLovinLug
(14,175 posts)Makes sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,303 posts)Quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur.
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Andrew Cuomo spearheaded a program similar to Pete's proposal here in NY.
With the passage of the FY 2018 State Budget, New York is now home to the nation's first accessible college program - The Excelsior Scholarship.
Under this groundbreaking program, more than 940,000 middle-class families and individuals making up to $125,000 per year will qualify to attend college tuition-free at all CUNY and SUNY two- and four-year colleges in New York State. The new program begins in the fall of 2017 and will be phased in over three years.
https://www.ny.gov/programs/tuition-free-degree-program-excelsior-scholarship
Pete's plan for Pell Grants sounds promising as well. With tuition elimination/reduction similar to what is already in place in states like NYS, housing and living costs are the major college expenses remaining.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)CAMPAIGN AD
(snip)
"Universal systems that benefit everyone are stronger [because] everyone's invested!," Ocasio-Cortez added.
(snip)
The congresswoman then argued that when certain peoplein this case, Buttigieg's "kids of millionaires"are deliberately excluded from public services, "cracks in the system develop."
Furthermore, the legislator argued, children from rich families often want to attend private "Ivyesque" universities, which would not be covered by "tuition-free public college."
Ocasio-Cortez added that it would be beneficial "to have classrooms (from pre-k through college!) to be socioeconomically integrated. Having students from different incomes & backgrounds in the same classroom is good for society & economic mobility."
(snip)
https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-calls-out-pete-buttigieg-sad-argument-against-tuition-free-college-new-1474809
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,303 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,303 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....to a "socioeconomically UNintegrated" neighborhood presumably BECAUSE of the education available in the Bronx.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mopinko
(70,179 posts)here in chi, we have worked hard to give kids choices to go to school at other than their own, local school.
it hasnt really worked, because of the segregation of neighborhoods. but it has helped.
michele obama's high school was one of the earliest steps toward a color blind school system. we have taken many more steps including, gasp, many very good charter schools.
so, no, your hot button does not apply.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatrickforO
(14,586 posts)The US Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's put out each year and shows the correlation between educational attainment level and earnings.
Here's the link: https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2019/data-on-display/education_pays.htm?view_full
Enter these numbers in excel and perform a Pearson's correlation coefficient and you will find that it is almost 100% related (0.97).
As an economist, I am involved in economic development in my region, and for my own state I found that the cost of remittance for student loan debt was $2.7 billion per year in foregone sales of goods and services. For this reason, I have often advocated debt forgiveness programs, company forgiveness programs (86% of young people say they would commit to working for an employer five years if the employer helped defray their student debt, yet only 4% of companies do), and more public subsidies to offset tuition and books for kids (and older adults) who find they must attend some kind of postsecondary training in order to earn a livable wage.
I also found, from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) that a study done of two cohorts of students showed that for each cohort, minority kids actually owed MORE seven years after starting their programs than they borrowed to attend school. I even called and spoke personally to several people at NCES and they verified this statistic. That is absolutely appalling.
I tell people that we would be very well advised, particularly since almost half of our labor force will be comprised of racial and ethnic minorities within 30 years, to treat our kids as a socio-economic investment rather than subjecting them to often predatory lending practices just to get through school.
It's hurting businesses, particularly those that depend on workers with high levels of technical and problem solving skills, to have kids choosing not to go to college at all, in which case they don't qualify for the job, or In a full employment market, businesses are now implementing practices that encourage employee retention, and kids who graduate with debt so high they will jump ship at the first offer of a slightly higher wage don't stay as long because they chase the money.
OK. That's what I tell business and policy making audiences.
What I tell people on here is that these are our children and grandchildren for God's sake. We tell them they have to go to school to get any kind of decent job, and then the system itself is predatory. Predictably, the more expensive private-for-profit schools have the worst earnings outcomes at graduation and the highest student loan default rates, while state colleges have better earnings outcomes and lower default rates.
And this thing with minority kids? It literally nauseated me. When I ran the numbers I found that Black or African American kids in two cohorts studied actually owed an average of 114% to 120% of what they borrowed 7 years after starting a program. Think about that for a minute in light of the Black Lives Matter movement.
Thus, there is a very compelling case to investing tax dollars in postsecondary education for our children. In terms of social and economic policy, doing this would alleviate the fact that, as journalist Jason DeParle points out in a NYT article:
Again, taking care of education for our kids, or at least making college/university debt free, helps all of us who depend on good services and are disappointed when there's no one to help us when we need.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
evertonfc
(1,713 posts)Our last Governor, Bill Haslam pushed through free two-year community college with 100% transfer to state universities. Many of our private schools accept it too. Add the Hope lotto scholarship for kids with a 3.0 or 20 on ACT, that provides almost $2000 per semester - college is very affordable in TN. I have a HS senior who is applying now. He is an average student with zero scholarships but given the Promise, Hope and a few bucks that his perspective college is throwing in as "aid" his tuition will be free first two years or about $900 per semester at a 4 year school. We have zero intention of student loans and he will have to work part time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)I think the days when people could wisely talk about means-testing are long gone. Making rational points as Mayor Pete is doing doesn't get anywhere in today's politics.
On a purely logical level, if public schools and public universities are public goods, they belong to all of us.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
grantcart
(53,061 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)I guess everyone doesnt know that by now.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SWBTATTReg
(22,156 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madaboutharry
(40,216 posts)Amy Klobuchar has come out against free college for all. I havent heard Joe Biden support that policy.
Does Kamala Harris? I dont think so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Inspired
(3,957 posts)And probably to you as well. It's all in the poll numbers. As Pete's numbers rise, he's going to get this kind of negativity when others who share his same views don't. I hear nothing negative about Michael Bennett after all...ever!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
FreeState
(10,575 posts)We must be better than this n/t
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
grantcart
(53,061 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Inspired
(3,957 posts)and that is so disappointing. I'm in Iowa and Pete's pragmatic approach is very popular among Democrats who want to get things done, instead of just screaming about it all the time. I try to keep that perspective in mind.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
myohmy2
(3,168 posts)...absolutely...
...she's right, you know...
...Social Security and Medicare today would be just other gutted-out, under-funded, welfare programs if everyone wasn't invested...
...we want everybody's skin in the game...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,303 posts)"Education" is the public service in question.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wryter2000
(46,076 posts)And I'd vote for her if I lived in her district, but why does everything that comes out of her mouth have to be a headline? She's not the Oracle at Delphi.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ChiTownDenny
(747 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)I find it very interesting that they have more power than anyone else to dictate the narrative, the issues to be debated, etc. Literally, all other candidates have to provide alternatives instead of controlling the narrative themselves. The most disappointing campaign is Bidens. The website is a mess, energy doesnt seem to be there. Obama said this is the time for bold proposals. No centrist will ever vote trump but they can be persuaded that many of our progressive causes are not far left at all but an important part of successful capitalism. As a democratic party, we strongly reject the normalization socialism (state means of productions). I like the idea of affordable college (private schools are excluded) but I am adamantly opposed to forgive current student loans.
1. Affordable state college
2. Improved ACA by mandating medicaid expansion and offering medicare option in all 50 states.
3. Ensure that employees are represented on corporate board
4. Freedom dividend needs to be rebranded, e.g. tax refund or something. Prepare populace for larger than life automation coming our ways which will result in dramatic reduction of fastfood, retail staff and drivers within 5-10 years.
5. Election integrity. It is absolutely necessary that we improve integrity of our elections by aways having a paper trail but also robust if not automatic voter registration, including same day registration option. This is fundamental constitutional right and some states try to restrict and control it for us.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,367 posts)Tuition does not mean free. My daughter is headed off to college next year, and tuition will account for less than half of the expense. Fees, books, room and board account for 60% of the total bill.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)(snip)
Some highlights from the plan include the expansion of Pell Grants by enabling students from low-income families to use aid to cover room and board, books, and living expenses, and the removal of barriers for college students to access nutrition assistance benefits, according to his website.
At the event, he also unveiled a $5 billion plan to train more teachers at HBCUs, and a separate $5 billion program aimed at preparing more Black dentists and other healthcare professionals, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
We have to make sure that in African American communities there are the doctors, the nurses, the psychologists are there to provide the care that the people in those communities need, he said at the event, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports.
(snip)
The website also highlights how through the plan hell provide $1.3 billion to private, nonprofit HBCUs and MSIs per year to eliminate or significantly reduce tuition and fees. This funding would support some 200 schools which serve at least 35 percent low-income students.
(snip)
https://www.bet.com/news/national/2019/11/28/bernie-sanders-unveils-college-for-all-plan-to-support-hbcus.html
https://berniesanders.com/issues/supporting-hbcus-and-msis/
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287361693
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Happy Hoosier
(7,367 posts)I am fortunate enough to have been able to save. Expanded pell grants help, though the amount the federal government expects people to be able to pay is nuts..... in my case, about 35% of my take home pay.
Frankly, I think just having zero interest loans would really help a lot of people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)like free tuition wasn't the logical next step before that decline.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LiberalLovinLug
(14,175 posts)I say good for her. She is showing the kind of fight we need from all of our Democratic reps. Furthermore she does not hesitate.
Gawd help anyone that tries to smear her or progressive political policies. Even if its a fellow Democrat. Some say other Democrats are off limits. I say that is hypocrisy of ones principles to not be honest about everyone.
Time and time again it is proven that if you try and limit social benefits to only one segment, and the wealthier classes are shut out of those benefits, they will eventually retaliate. Not because they need them, but they see money, they are paying in taxes, going to someone else s kids. So they pressure their (mostly) Republican reps to vote against any social service especially one that does not directly benefit them.
The only way to do healthcare or free tuition, is for it to be for everyone. Its the only way it can gain any hold. Its such a simple truth and its sad to see candidates like Buttigieg and others not seeing this or choosing to be wilfully ignorant on it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Prosper
(761 posts)libraries, parks etc.... We to stop arguing about the color of the buckets to water the garden and just water the garden and watch it grow. There is only one thing between peace and prosperity, here and universally. Stagnated money. Start eliminating trades and deals that only serve to take money out of economies.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)with plenty of rich kids?
This is NOT my kind of Democrat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lucky Luciano
(11,258 posts)Rich kids are just as welcome in any public school up to high school. They often choose to go to a private school instead. Why should college be any different?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)Integration. The rich kids being snobby to the lower class.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,165 posts)Her calling out of Buttigieg reminded me of that fact.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden