Biden WENT THERE! In the second hour of his interview with Don Lemon he said....

[George II]

..."we have someone on the stage who said the President should be primaried"!!!

[betsuni]

1. GOOD.

[Cha]

13. It was a terrible "idea".

Last edited Sat Nov 23, 2019, 01:36 AM - Edit history (1)

[betsuni]

27. "I do a radio show every week. Over a million people hear it in about every state in the country.

These are working class people, progressive people. There is a lot of disillusionment. They want the president to stand up for the middle class, the working class of this country, and they want him to take on big money interests in a way that he has not done up to this point." Bernie Sanders.

"President Obama took more money from Wall Street in the 2008 campaign than anybody ever had. And when it came time to stand up to Wall Street, he passed and signed the toughest regulations since the Great Depression, with the Dodd-Frank regulations." Hillary Clinton.

How does Bernie think PBO didn't stand up for the middle and working classes of this country? I would like details.

[Cha]

49. ..

That's all I'll here.. you can read a few choice words between the lines.

Mahalo, betsuni

[Hortensis]

71. The cumulative effects of decades of il-liberal undermining

of confidence in liberals and our liberal institutions -- a shared goal of both the right and the far left -- are a huge part of what's gone wrong with our nation.

Any who actually believe Democrats aren't really much better than Republicans should be escorted outside so they can shout their messages from their corners of choice. And any who say it but aren't that deluded should be kicked out the door, a virtual flight resulting in damage only to ego and ambitions of course.

[DownriverDem]

72. Hello?

What seems to be missing is that who can win the Electoral College and beat trump? Folks spend too much time supporting who they like and not who can beat trump.

[mjvpi]

153. He didn't make sure that people went to jail. Crimes but no time.

The only thing that happened was large fines were imposed on institutions. Those fines turned into the cost of doing business and were passed on to the very consumers that they screwed in the first place. No personal accountability.

To his credit, he paid attention to his old professor,Elizabeth Warren, and did work hard to make it law.

[betsuni]

160. I think he decided saving lives more important, the ACA.

[thesquanderer]

108. I'm actually disappointed Biden would take that shot.

I didn't like when Harris and Booker went after Biden with similar shots, and I liked that Biden didn't engage in that sort of thing. By "similar shots" I mean, it's nothing based on the current policy positions or the like, but rather a critique of something in the past, and perhaps in a way to imply something not quite true.

In this case, as has been discussed here before, Sanders did suggest that primarying Obama might be a good thing, but not for the purpose of replacing Obama on the ticket, but rather to counter the forces that were pulling him to the right by providing some pressure from the left as well. Sanders wanted some force to start to pull Obama to the left because he seemed to be looking to appease the right. Remember chained CPI? Raising the Medicare age to 67? BS was looking to make a statement and exert political pressure from the other side. You might not agree with the tactic, of suggesting it could be good if he were to be primaried, but it was not said in an attempt to actually prevent Obama from being re-elected, which is the implication if you don't know the context. This is more fully explained in this article:

https://www.thenation.com/article/yes-bernie-sanders-wanted-obama-primaried-in-2012-heres-why/

[betsuni]

110. It's about the 2020 election.

Here is Bernie in his "If I Run" email talking about "Wall Street Democrats": "Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attacks on our progressive agenda. It is just as important we do it again today. ... In 2016 we faced the kitchen sink. If we run again, you should expect no less."

He has said, "This campaign was never just about electing a president of the United States, as enormously important as that was. The campaign was about transforming America."

2020 is about electing a Democratic president of the United States. It's about saving the country. Democrats are the progressive party, they are not the enemy, even if they have jobs in financial firms on Wall Street or are elected "establishment" officials. Anything else helps Republicans destroy the U.S.

[thesquanderer]

111. I don't see how that relates to my post.

I was talking about the line in the OP, "we have someone on the stage who said the President should be primaried".

[betsuni]

112. You said such critiques, as Biden saying someone on stage said the President should be primaried,

were critiques of something in the past. I'm saying Biden's comment was about the 2020 election.

It's like Hillary's comment about Tulsi Gabbard, who keeps saying everything's about the past (Hillary's mad about 2016, impeaching Trump is about 2016). Hillary's comment was about the 2020 election. We need people on the stage who don't attack Democrats (calling them corrupt/warmongers/establishment/not progressive/corporatists, etc.). Nobody should be a potential source for anti-Democratic attacks that will be used by Republicans/Russia in the general election.

[thesquanderer]

118. re: "Biden's comment was about the 2020 election"

No, it was about something Sanders said in 2012. The only thing that makes it about 2020 is that Sanders is running for the 2020 nomination. That would be like saying Harris' busing attack on Biden was about the 2020 election. Well, yeah, insofar as Biden is running for the 2020 nomination, but it was about something Biden said in the 1970s, not about anything he's said or any position he's taken during the campaign, or anything relevant to the way he would govern if elected.

I think both are cheap attacks in that they (a) are historical events that are not relevant to any part of their platform or indicative of how they would govern, and (b) imply something untrue (i.e. that Biden has a history of siding with people who opposed school integration, or that Sanders wanted someone to replace Obama on the ticket).

[betsuni]

119. Sanders said this in 2018 at the 50th anniversary of MLK's assassination:

"The business model ... of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. People sometimes don't see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama ... ."

It's his pattern, the constant claim that the Democratic Party is corrupt and doesn't care about the working/middle classes ("ideologically bankrupt" ). That Democrats are establishment elites beholden to wealthy donors (he can't stop mentioning Biden's fundraisers and candidates who benefit from super pacs) who are terrified of progressive ideas and will stop at nothing to defeat him. He's done it for decades and still does. This is why it's about right now and how it will affect the general election.

Harris' attack wasn't against the Democratic Party and it was a thing that actually happened. Sanders said the reason he wanted Obama primaried was because he wasn't doing enough for the working/middle classes, same old claim with no proof.

[thesquanderer]

122. That 2018 statement is, again, not what Biden was referencing in the OP's quote.

You keep talking about other things Sanders has said, I'm only talking about the particular thing that Biden brought up which is the topic of the thread.

As for "wanted Obama primaried was because he wasn't doing enough for the working/middle classes, same old claim with no proof" -- I addressed that with examples. Obama was suggesting a willingness to use chained CPI for Social Security, and raising the Medicare age from 65 to 67. Because he was getting pressure from the right, and not from the left. So Sanders was endorsing the idea of applying pressure from the left to counter that. You may not agree that that was a good idea, but it's not "same old claim with no proof," because the proof of what he was saying was right there in the positions Obama was taking.

[sprinkleeninow]

176. Agree:

>>2020 is about electing a Democratic president of the United States. It's about saving the country. Democrats are the progressive party, they are not the enemy, even if they have jobs in financial firms on Wall Street or are elected "establishment" officials. Anything else helps Republicans destroy the U.S.<<

[George II]

115. Sanders has been relentlessly taking shots at Biden for weeks. This is mild compared to his shots.

[Gothmog]

175. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win

Our country cannot afford four more years of trump

[thesquanderer]

178. Out of all our candidates, Sanders is second only to Biden in how well he polls against Trump.

If you don't think Sanders could beat Trump, then maybe you think that none of our candidates except Biden can beat Trump. And maybe that's true. I hope not, though.

[Gothmog]

179. I have seen a great deal of the oppo that is out there on sanders

trump would destroy sanders. The oppo that is available for trump to use on sanders is amazing

[treestar]

180. Obama did not need to be pulled left

Congress did.

[Tiggeroshii]

2. Nobody cares.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Obviously some people do.

[ritapria]

4. We have another Person on stage

who supported The Iraq War

[George II]

10. No we don't.

[Tiggeroshii]

15. So a vote for the Iraq war means they didn't want the Iraq war to happen?

They didn't support the Iraq war but they voted for it?

[The Valley Below]

35. Read HRC's speech at the time she voted for the resolution.

Should clear up her reasoning and that of other Democrats who sought to avoid war by getting Saddam to comply with UN resolutions.

[Jewls2]

55. Sanders voted for every vote in the Iraq war but one. His conviction was light, if he was only

willing to vote no once, for a resolution that Bushco could move forward, under conditions.

[thesquanderer]

81. The ONE he voted against was the ONE that specifically authorized sending troops. (n/t)

[Jewls2]

105. IF certain conditions are met.

[thesquanderer]

107. Right. But the ones he DID vote for did NOT authorize the invasion.

So there is a fundamental difference between them, and lumping them all together (i.e. "conviction was light, if he was only willing to vote no once" ) is disingenuous. None of the ones he voted for could be used to invade. Earlier votes did not authorize that activity in any way (if earlier votes had authorized the invasion, Bush wouldn't have needed the one that did). Later votes were funding... the decision to properly fund the troops once sent is completely different from authorizing them to go there in the first place. It's no use to argue about the barn door after the cows are already out, you just do what you can to make the best of it.

[Jewls2]

141. What is disingenuous is having this conversation about the vote 17 yrs later

without any of the considerations of the time, and simply looking back with the simple count of who voted what. As if that is an issue today.

[thesquanderer]

146. I'm not the one who brought it up. (n/t)

[oasis]

66. Does anyone remember Hans Blix?

[George II]

78. Biden didn't vote for the war, he voted for the AUMF which had conditions attached to it.

It's not a long document, well worth the time of everyone here to read it.

[thesquanderer]

84. Though he and Hillary admit the vote was a mistake.

Even if only because they believed what Bush had personally told them.

You know, if you sign a contract that you have reservations about, but the person on the other side verbally assures you that he will not use the contract the way the paper says he can, an argument can be made that you'd still be a fool to sign it. It was a bad vote, and some people (not just Sanders) were able to realize it at the time.

[Demsrule86]

94. Again George Bush formulated that policy.

[melman]

20. Yes we do

“Contrary to what some in my party might think, Iraq was a problem that had to be dealt with sooner, rather than later. So I commend the president. He was right to enforce the solemn commitments made by Saddam. If they were not enforced … what good would they be and what value those institutions? For me, the issue was never whether we had to deal with Saddam, but when and how we dealt with Saddam."

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4815847/user-clip-biden-brookings

[George II]

76. Interesting, I don't see the word "war" anywhere in that quote above.

...in that clip is in the sentence where he said "we went to war too soon...."

But I'm glad you posted that, in less than two minutes Biden explained what the AUMF really was, and he explicitly said "the administration is wrong to make this about about preemption". Did you see that?

Good to see the DU search function is working - I look forward to seeing all your responses to my posts later today.

[melman]

93. lol

Why would I have needed the "DU search function" to find that? You do realize there's a whole internet out there don't you?



Not going to even bother getting into your ridiculous parsing on "war''. Biden was pro-Iraq invasion and you know it.

[George II]

95. My comment has nothing to do to find "that", it has to do with something else, "and you know it."

[Eliot Rosewater]

126. Some folks are bound and determined to make sure NO Democratic politician

occupies the WH ever again.

[PhoenixDem]

61. Deflection ... Look!! Squirrel !!!! n/t

[DownriverDem]

75. Please do us all a favor

and move on.

[George II]

85. Some people just won't, they'll bring up that one vote until they breathe their last breath.

[BannonsLiver]

5. This nobody does.

[Cha]

6. Oh, are you speaking for everybody?

[Jewls2]

7. I think probably the Democratic base does. That is why that one person will

never be able to expand his base.

[ritapria]

16. That person carried 22 states 4 years ago, 12 million votes as I recall

And has a grass roots army second to none in 2020 .... If he carries Iowa , he will NH in a landslide …. Then NV, strong second in SC , a crushing victory in CA …..President Sanders …..Iowa is the ballgame for Bernie

[BannonsLiver]

19. LOL

GOD how I love the sweet joy of unintentional comedy.

[Jewls2]

21. Caucus states and open primary.

[Tiggeroshii]

30. They don't count! Let's undo all caucuses and open primaries!

Oh wait, that would invalidate a lot of other Democratic candidates who won the party nomination.

[Jewls2]

41. It certainly tells a story.

[Gothmog]

73. I am so glad there are far fewer caucuses this cycle

[Demsrule86]

98. so many who went on to lose in the general...get rid of caucuses and open primaries...let

Democratic voters choose. The nevada caucus where less than 2000 voters voted sent delegates to the convention but the primary which didn't count had thousand and thousands of voters...who's votes didn't matter.

[Tiggeroshii]

109. Like Hillary?

She also won a lot of caucuses and open primaries.

[Demsrule86]

137. She won the Nevada primary...but plenty of folks who talked shit about Hillary...Republicans of

course but others too helped elect Trump in the General. 16 is an election unlike any other...and can't be used for much.

[PhoenixDem]

62. ...

[George II]

74. I'm not going to get drawn into a discussion of the previous primary, as you're doing...

....but of those 22 states only TWO were closed Democratic primaries, the rest were either open primaries where republicans participated or caucuses where the caucus goers could be bullied.

I want a candidate who can win on his/her own two feet and merits, not with outside influence.

[Demsrule86]

96. Oh, I think he already has...but unless Warren can expand her base to include AA voters,

she has no chance at the nomination.

[Jewls2]

106. What does Warren have to do with anything I said?

Are you so Biden that you go around punching anyone that does not have a Biden face in their posts, totally unprovoked? Even cheering Warren and Harris, I can easily say that Biden was right on with his statement and the base will go Biden and not Sanders. Warren, Harris, and Biden are Democrats running in our Democratic primary. I am the Democratic base. Though I have favs, I can stand with all our Democrats. Can you?

[George II]

9. I do, that precludes "nobody".

[Tiggeroshii]

14. Well I stand corrected.

[sheshe2]

22. I do.

I am not a nobody.

[The Valley Below]

23. I care. A great deal.

[msongs]

25. democrats care nt

[Cha]

50. you got that wrong.

[Gothmog]

101. There are a large number of real Drmocrats who respect President Obama

Attacking President Obama will hurt a candidate with these voters

[Amimnoch]

152. Hmm.. 46 recs as of now.. so about 8x as many care than on the average BS BS.

[SMC22307]

163. Agree. But if they do, they better get over it in November 2020...

and vote for whomever the Dem nominee is. This country cannot withstand a second term of Fat Nixon.

[JoeOtterbein]

11. Joe Biden actually did primary Obama. Is that who you mean?

It is ok you know.

We have a big tent for all of us!

[Cha]

12. Hello! that was Before Obama was President.

[JoeOtterbein]

17. I did not say he was.

Anyway, a strong primary makes a stronger candidate. I know that Hillary and Joe made Obama stronger, before he was POTUS.

Debating anyone makes you stronger.

It's a good thing. Really!

That's why I'm tipping my hat to you! Thanks again!

[Cha]

18. Biden and Obama were in the same Primary &

Obama chose him as his VP candidate when he won.

[BannonsLiver]

26. It really is amazing isn't it?

Sure, Biden called for Obama to be primaried. Bernie’s going to win the nomination and GE in a cake walk. It’s an alternate reality.

[Cha]

33. George ******* Orwell & The Twilight

Zone rolled into one big

[PhoenixDem]

63. And I though Kelly-Anne Conway couldn't be topped n/t

[George II]

67. And he chose Hillary Clinton as his Secretary of State.

[Cha]

113. Exactly.. President Obama's best rivals!

Love the thread, btw.. Thank you, George!

[Jewls2]

24. Ah, but you do not "know" that. You are guessing that HRC and Biden made Obama stronger.

But there is no way to "know".

[George II]

80. Biden specifically mentioned "the President".

[bluedye33139]

151. I wonder if you two are disagreeing about the meaning of the word

When we say that someone should be primaried, we are speaking about an incumbent. That's typically what the word means.

That's why it doesn't make sense when you say that he primaried Obama.

[ritapria]

28. Give Joe a break

In 2007 he declared that Barack was : " the first sorta mainstream African- American (candidate) ….articulate, bright and , clean and nice looking guy... That's a storybook , man"

[BannonsLiver]

29. Then what happened?

[Tiggeroshii]

31. Then he lost his second attempt at running for president.

Third time's the charm, eh?

[BannonsLiver]

32. Yeah he did.

Which is an honor Bernie will have next year. But what happened after that?

[Tiggeroshii]

34. He never became president.

Last edited Sat Nov 23, 2019, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)

[BannonsLiver]

40. Not yet anyway

He may become president some day or he might not. In either case I have reason to doubt your ability to predict that based on previous comments.

No, what happened after that, as we all know, is Obama picked Biden to be his Vice President and the ticket won 2 very large victories.

But we all know that. But what I don’t know is if you agree with Bernie. Should Obama have been primaried in 2012 as Bernie suggested?

[Tiggeroshii]

42. Well it's looking like he probably won't.

I would not have supported any other candidate besides Obama in 2012 -hell I worked for the guy at the time. But I do not oppose democracy in a nation that purports it to be it's number one value.

I look forward to seeing Biden win his first primary or caucus state in more than 30 years of trying. It will be historic! That being said, I'm not holding my breath.

[BannonsLiver]

43. I don't get the sense you are looking forward to it very much should it occur.

[Tiggeroshii]

44. I think it would be neat.

Biden's a good guy. I just don't quite think it's going to happen. I do genuinely look forward to being proven wrong, however!

[Cha]

36. ..

[Cha]

38. Then Joe Biden became Vice President of the United States of America

[Hekate]

48. Biden got to be Veep, and Bernie went back to being the Independent gadfly from Vermont

So, Bernie's trying again, too. Politicians. It's what they do.

[Tiggeroshii]

52. The difference is Bernie won 22 primaries and caucuses on his own accord.

So far Biden's won zilch except for on the coattails of a far more popular politician. I have hope that will change though. Third time's the charm!

[Cha]

53. Joe Biden was a valued and trusted Vice President

working with President Obama for 8 years.. and now has invaluable experience and qualifications to be POTUS on Day One.

[Hekate]

56. Good lord 'n' butter. BS did not win the overall primary battle, Hillary did. She got more votes ...

...than he did in the primaries, and she got more votes than Trump did in the general.

Biden would have run last time except his son died. Who knows how it would have turned out if Beau had lived? Except for the part about Russia and Jill Stein and voter suppression -- you do understand those would still have been there no matter what, and they will be again in 2020.

But you just carry on.

[Tiggeroshii]

57. Sure. But the difference between Joe and Bernie is Joe lost every primary he ever competed for.

Bernie won more than 22.

[Cha]

58. The difference betweet BS and Biden is

Biden was Vice President of the United States of America and had 8 years of invaluable experience in the Executive Branch with priceless qualifications to be POTUS on Day One.

[PatSeg]

77. You forgot

Joe has always been a Democrat throughout his life, not just when it served his political agenda.

[Cha]

114. Joe Biden has been a Life Long Democrat!

Thank you, Pat Seg!

[PatSeg]

142. You're welcome!

[George II]

139. Not to refight the 2016 primary (as you are doing) but BS won only 2 closed Democratic primaries....

....all the others were either open primaries (where republicans voted) or caucuses (where caucus goers could be bullied)

As for Biden winning "zilch", he is the 18th longest serving senator in US history.

[Tiggeroshii]

143. Biden was in the 2016 primary?

Unless that's the case, nobody is refighting anything.

[Cha]

54. Yeah, Joe Biden got to be a valued Veep and garner 8 years

Last edited Sat Nov 23, 2019, 05:31 AM - Edit history (1)

of priceless experience and qualifications to be POTUS on Day One.

[R B Garr]

69. +1, he became Obama's Vice President

[Cha]

37. And, then Obama chose him to be his VP candidate..

you're going to have to try harder to slur Joe Biden, rita.

[LakeArenal]

92. Then there's that inconsequential Medal of Freedom

That seems pretty meaningless, right?

Do I need the sarcasm thingie here? Hope not.

[Cha]

116. Prescisely, LakeArenal! Biden wasn't just a "VP" to

President Obama.. he was a valued Veep worthy of the Medal of Freedom! And what a heartwarming ceremony that was

[Hekate]

46. Which was both high praise and a rational assessment of Obama's political gifts...

I have never understood the bellyaching about that. Do the complainers not want people to notice how gifted Barack Obama was and is? Do they think "bright and articulate" is a "white" standard? Or does the assessment just flat-out offend the anti-intellectual American bias against the well-educated and accomplished?

Oh, and by the way, Barack Obama won and chose Joe Biden for his VP. Whoda thunk it?

[George II]

68. He never primaried PRESIDENT Obama. Here are the candidates that ultimately primaried Obama:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

John Wolfe, Jr. 117,033 0 (23) (AR, LA, MO, NH, TX)
Darcy Richardson 109,764 0 (LA, MO, NH, OK, TX)
Keith Russell Judd[23] 73,138 0 (1) (WV)
Bob Ely 29,947 0 (LA, NH, OK, TX)
Randall Terry 22,734 0 (7) (AK, MO, NH, OK)
Jim Rogers 15,535 0 (3) (OK)
Ed Cowan 945 0 (NH)
Vermin Supreme 833 0 (NH)
John D. Haywood 423 0 (NH)
Craig Freis 400 0 (NH)
Cornelius Edward O'Connor 266 0 (NH)
Edward T. O'Donnell 222 0 (NH)
Bob Greene 213 0 (NH)
Scott W. Stey 155 0 (NH)
Aldous C. Tyler 106 0 (NH)

[LAS14]

138. Who is the "he" referenced here? tia, las nt

[Hav]

83. That's the same stupid attempt of an argument Bernie tried

against Hillary for her 2008 run after she brought up the same criticism. Equating participating in the same primary without a sitting President with the proposed primary against a sitting President of your own party (well, in Bernie's case it's different) is not really honest.
It's amazing and at the same time insulting that anyone would believe that such an argument could get believed by anyone. I refuse to believe and give you the benefit of the doubt that you were serious in equating these two cases.

[mahina]

39. Devils advocate for a moment-

Bill Weld should be able to have a chance to get the republican nomination.

That said, we were so very lucky to have a President Obama in the highest office and I woudnt have supported a primary at s as ll then.

[Hekate]

45. Indeed he did. Also, it was an exceptional interview. We gained a real respect for Don Lemon...

...and will try to catch him from time to time now.

[Cha]

47. Good to hear that from you, Hekate.. I've always

liked what I've seen and heard about Don Lemon on DU.

[George II]

79. I discovered Lemon about three years ago, in my mind the absolute best CNN or MSNBC....

I wish he was on earlier, I run out of gas toward the end of his two hours.

[Demsrule86]

99. I watch and tape his show every night...love Lemon.

[Gothmog]

51. This was a great interview

[duforsure]

59. trump attacking Democracy

And has pressured republicans into refusing primaries against him shows his contempt for OUR country , Democracy, and the American people, and clearly tactics and propaganda for putin he promotes daily against OUR country to weaken it for putin. trump is not a republican, its an act to use to undermine the country , and their party with, and weaken it with. He now has corrupted their party so much they are forced to protect him or to be exposed for their criminal actions from taking funds from putin for their actions , and their pockets.

[PhoenixDem]

60. Most POC of age at the time remember

that someone wanted to primary beloved President Obama.

This is for everyone's awareness the judgment (or lack thereof) of someone who would want Obama primaried in 2012 and that it is disqualifying.

[NYMinute]

64. It is despicable how some wanted to primary Barack Obama nt

[mcar]

65. So glad to hear this!

[Gothmog]

70. That was a great interview of Vice President Biden

I agree with Joe Biden that President Obama was a great POTUS. I do not like candidates who attack President Obama

[Kurt V.]

82. that is standard left ideology. *all power should be under scrutiny all the time*

Nothing wrong with that.

[ecstatic]

86. Second hour? Darn it, I missed it. I thought Don had

pivoted to other news. Why the hell didn't he just show the entire interview from beginning to end?

Anyway, glad Biden mentioned that, but did Lemon follow up??

[George II]

87. I thought so too, but I watch him anyway. Then a little bit into the second hour he ran...

...more of the interview. There seemed to be segments scattered throughout the second hour. I couldn't make it to the end.

[Gothmog]

90. Lemon broke the interview into four segments and ran one in second hour

I saw this thread last night and set DVR to record the second hour when it repeated and watched this segment this morning

[Fiendish Thingy]

88. Is Don Lemon doing 2 hour interviews with all the candidates? Nt

[Gothmog]

91. It was one interview that CNN broke into four segments

One segment ran in the second hour of Lemon's show in-between a discussion of the released documents and the IG report

[Gothmog]

89. Obama tells Democrats worried about the primary field to 'chill out'

Link to tweet

Appearing at a Democratic National Committee fundraiser attended by about 100 of Silicon Valley’s deep-pocketed donors, the former president told the crowd that it is paramount that the party stay focused on defeating President Trump next November rather than be consumed by intraparty squabbles and purity tests, CNN reported.

“Everybody needs to chill out about the candidates but gin up about the prospect of rallying behind whoever emerges from this process,” Obama said in response to a question about the primary, according to CNN....

“I’m always suspicious of purity tests during elections,” Obama said, according to the New York Times. “Because you know what? The country’s complicated.”....

“This is still a country that is less revolutionary than it is interested in improvement,” Obama said at a Nov. 15 meeting of the Democracy Alliance in Washington. “They like seeing things improved. But the average American doesn’t think that we have to completely tear down the system and remake it. And I think it’s important for us not to lose sight of that.

“My point is that even as we push the envelope and we are bold in our vision,” he said Nov. 15, “we also have to be rooted in reality and the fact that voters, including Democratic voters and certainly persuadable independents or even moderate Republicans, are not driven by the same views that are reflected on certain, you know, left-leaning Twitter feeds or the activist wing of our party.”

[NurseJackie]

97. "we have someone on the stage who said the President should be primaried"

"we have someone on the stage who said the President should be primaried"

It was at that very moment that I lost any shred of respect that I may have had for the individual who said that Obama should be primaried. As if the smears and attacks on the Democratic party weren't already bad enough... this hostile attack on Obama was over the top and unforgivable. I could never support anyone who views the Democratic party and its leaders with such contempt.

[Gothmog]

104. From the Thom Hartman show

[Cha]

117. yeah, BS owns that.

Thanks, Goth.

[Cha]

121. That's when I lost respect, too, Jackie.

Gone.

Thank you!

[NurseJackie]

133. It was treacherous.

Made me want to vomit!

[Cha]

134. yes.. typical.

[R B Garr]

140. +++++, exactly what I was thinking.

Nailed it.

[Gothmog]

100. Here is link to interview

Joe starts talking about President Obama and a candidate who wants to primary President Obama at 4:40 time mark
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/23/joe-biden-don-lemon-full-interview-part-4-ctn-vpx.cnn

[George II]

102. Thanks. I was looking for it earlier.

[aikoaiko]

103. LOL Joe.

Last edited Sat Nov 23, 2019, 06:12 PM - Edit history (2)

And remember Joe, Obama told lefties to hold his feet to the fire. Bernie was mostly being rhetorical about what it would take to get Obama to revert back to campaign talk, but endorsed Obama for both terms anyway.

[Cha]

120. BS owns this.. why didn't BS primary President Obama

if he thought it was such a "good idea"? Hmmm?

[aikoaiko]

123. Because it was rhetorical. Gasp.

He was trying to make a point that the Obama who campaigns was better than the Obama who governed.

And he happily owns it.

And I’m glad he fucking said it.

If for no other reason I’m glad that it still bothers all the right people.

[Cha]

124. Nah.. BS made it clear.. why didn't BS put

his money where his mouth was?

[aikoaiko]

125. I don't think you listened to the interview where he made that remark.

Well, even if you think he was serious about replacing Obama through the 2912 primary and should have done it himself, I’m glad he met your standard of authenticity for 2016 and again now.

Aren’t you glad, too, Cha? Aren’t you so glad?

I’m sure you’re consistent like that.

[Cha]

127. So many people know this.. Joe Biden knows it..

There isn't going to be any "rhetorical" revisionist history written here.

BS owns it.

[aikoaiko]

128. You're funny, cha. Sure, Bernie owns it.

But still, aren’t you glad he did get in the Democratic Primaries in 2016 and now?

I know I am.

And soooo many people do, too.

[Cha]

129. The Obama Campaign Remembers 2012 Very Differently Than Bernie Sanders

Their take on Sanders’ role: In 2008, he got on board with Obama late. In 2012, he was either attacking the president from the left or doing little to get him elected. As for “vigorously” supporting him, they said, Sanders was not someone they thought of as a top surrogate.
“Every indication we had was that he was considering a primary challenge,” said one senior official from Obama’s 2012 campaign.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/evanmcsan/the-obama-campaign-remembers-2012-very-differently-from-bern

I trust the Obama Campaign.. they earned it.

[aikoaiko]

130. Anonymous sources on Buzzfeed during a campaign?

It’s not like Obama staffers were trying to help HRC or anything.

I never said Bernie was a top supporter, but he did support Obama. Vigorously is certainly in the eyes beholder.

I know you will disagree, but Bernie and I consider criticism to be support. We want better and not to simply hero worship.

You can have the last word if you wish.

[Cha]

190. ".. the last word.."? Can BS & his supporters take "criticism"

as you call it?

BS did more than "criticize".. he wanted President Obama primaried.. and he didn't "vigorously" support him. I believe the sources quoted in the article.. I was paying attention to what was happening in real time.

[Gothmog]

191. Wanting to primary Obama is far more than criticism

[Cha]

192. Exactly, Goth.. Thank You!

[Cha]

187. BS needs to act like it then.

[Gothmog]

131. There are a good number of Obama supporters who will not support sanders in the primary

sanders is running 4th in a number of primary and I really doubt that he will be the nominee

Link to tweet

[aikoaiko]

132. And thats fine with me. I just want Bernie to stay in until the convention

I like watching him kick ass.

[Gothmog]

148. I was at the convention in Philadelphia and sanders delegates hurt his campaign

I was in Philadelphia and got to watch sanders in action at the convention. It was not pretty. Booing Join Lewis, Elijah Cummings and others was not funny. I have another dream. One key item is that under the rules, a candidate cannot be put into nomination without 300 delegates. https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2020-Call-for-Convention-WITH-Attachments-2.26.19.pdf

Nomination of the Democratic Candidate for President: The Permanent Chair shall receive nominations from the floor for the Democratic candidate for the Office of President of the United
States in the following manner:

a. Requests to nominate a presidential candidate shall be in writing and shall have affixed thereto the written approval of the proposed nominee and the name of the individuals who shall be recognized to make the nominating and seconding speeches on behalf of a presidential candidate and shall be delivered to the Convention Secretary at a location as specified by the Secretary no later than 6:00 p.m. of the day preceding the day designated for the commencement of presidential nominations.

b. Each such request must be accompanied by a petition indicating support for the proposed nominee signed by delegates representing not less than 300 or more than 600 delegate votes, not more than 50 of which may come from one (1) delegation. A delegate may not sign more than one (1) nominating petition for president and for vice president. Pledged and automatic delegates may sign the petition.

I signed the petition for Clinton in 2016 to put her into nomination but we have over 170 Clinton supporters in the Texas delegation.

If sanders is frozen out of enough states due to the 15% rule and remaining non-Biden delegates are split among several candidates, there is a chance that sanders may not reach 300 threshold

[aikoaiko]

150. Maybe so, but he'll undoubtedly still be a speaker at the convention.

Its true that people still hold resentment toward Bernie for a lot of reasons. Mostly because he dared to run -- really run -- against Hillary Clinton. I know people were stunned at the booing at the convention, but it was in response to political actions and not about them as people or leaders in civil rights.

If I were an advisor to Bernie, I would have advised him to do some things differently but he's running on his own terms whether it leads him to win or lose. He'll most likely lose, but I still admire him more than our other candidates. And as you can see from the polls, I'm am far from alone.

The thing I admire most about Bernie is that he is inspiring younger Democrats to run for office and even be willing to confront, when necessary, the Democratic establishment. There will be more booing.

[Gothmog]

154. I will not forgive or forget the booing of JOHN Lewis, Elijah Cummings and Stacy Abrams

I will also not forget sanders supporters calling my daughter the C-word because she would not get me to change my vote.

Are you really defending the booing of JOHN Lewis, Elijah Cummings and Stacy Abrams?

I strongly believe that sanders will not be the nominee. There are too many real Democrats who will not forgive or forget

[aikoaiko]

155. I don't think anyone asked you to forgive or forget. Its not required of you.

I don't condone using vulgar language (especially the C-word) if it happened. I say if it happened because there things claimed to have happened that didn't happen at the convention. I'm not accusing anyone of lying, but when people are emotional we think we hear, see, and recall poorly.

The delegates had their reasons for booing. It was brief and the speakers continued. Politicians can be booed and its not the end of the world. I wouldn't do it, but I understand why it happens. No one is free from criticism in public life.

We agree about Bernie's chances. Still, I'm glad he's in it and going deep.

[Gothmog]

156. I was at the convention and I saw the conduct of sanders and his delegates

There was a ton of bad behavior by the sanders delegates at the convention including calling my daughter the C-Word and a sanders delegate wearing a large cross standing outside the Jewish caucus screaming that we were all bad Jews for not supporting sanders. We also had a mini riot at the Texas delegation breakfast when sanders delegates demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders. I was also at the breakfast where this occurred. This behavior occurred. Are you calling me a liar?

sanders will not be the nominee. He is getting little support from African American voters and the math may work out so that sanders will not have the 300 delegates necessary to put his name into nomination.

I do not approve of the boing of African American leaders such as John Lewis, Elijah Cummings and Stacy Abrams. That conduct was not proper for a convention. You are welcome to approve of such conduct but then do not be surprised at the level of support that sanders gets in the Southern primaries. The recent polling indicates that there are a couple of southern states where sanders may not get any delegates due to the 15% rule.

[still_one]

159. Exactly, and making lame excuses to justify the booing of these Civil Rights leaders is pathetic

[betsuni]

161. What was the reason for booing?

Was it for endorsing Hillary Clinton? Booing politicians who endorse the Democratic nominee at the convention -- ridiculous. In the case of John Lewis, was it that he correctly said he didn't meet Bernie Sanders in the 60s, as if he met every college activist in the U.S. -- ridiculous.

[aikoaiko]

162. Its all just politics. Politicians throw shade to help their friends, some people throw it back.

'Its all water under the bridge -- but it appears some people are still fuming about it.

[betsuni]

164. What shade?

[aikoaiko]

165. You're funny. If you really are interested, just Google around a bit.

I'm not going to get into refighting the 2016 primary race.

[betsuni]

168. Google what?

[Cha]

166. he told me I was "funny", too..

too bad he's not.

[betsuni]

167. The "shade" is that they think Lewis was somehow saying Sanders lied

about being an activist in college. Which obviously he did not. How a busy civil rights leader in the south was supposed to know all the college activists in other parts of the country, I do not know.

Because everything is a conspiracy and everything a Democrat says should be assigned a negative motive because ... establishment/status quo blah blah blah, they will stop at nothing to defeat you know who, etc.

[Cha]

169. Exactly, betsuni.. too damn

paranoid by far and not good advocates for their candidate.. more damaging than anything.

[betsuni]

170. As if John Lewis was Mariah Carey: "I don't know her."

Absurd.

[Cha]

171. Right.. Speaking of "advocates" who are too damn paranoid..

Link to tweet

Prime example..

[Gothmog]

172. Why were Delores Huerta, Stacy Abrams and Elijah Cummings booed?

[Cha]

177. There ya go!

:fistbump

[Gothmog]

182. Bernie Supporters Heckle Elijah Cummings at DNC

I remember this and was appalled https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-07-25/bernie-supporters-heckle-elijah-cummings-at-dnc

In the opening session of the Democratic National Convention Monday, during a powerful speech by Rep. Elijah Cummings of Maryland – civil rights champion, Congressional Black Caucus heavyweight and son of a sharecropper – which largely focused on the Democrats' fight for civil rights, Sanders supporters began chanting, "No TPP!" and holding ups signs, essentially heckling Cummings loudly on national TV.

Cummings was co-chair of the Democrats' platform committee, which inserted language that didn't specifically oppose the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a sweeping trade deal that President Barack Obama put high on his second-term wish list. But the deal, and the language in the platform essentially protecting it, is a flashpoint for Sanders' backers; they believe trade pacts are responsible for triggering the decline of American manufacturing and causing wages to stagnate.

Sanders used Clinton's support for TPP as a cudgel against her in the primary debates. But his supporters publicly harassing Cummings, a widely respected lawmaker and African American leader, isn't a good look for a faction that, by Sanders' own admission, got clobbered by Clinton in the South, home to the largest segment of the nation's black population.

Cummings finished his speech, but the demonstration at the convention could leave a nasty aftertaste among some African American voters. And it underscores the notion that there's a void between black Democrats and white progressives – and lends credence to the claim of some Sanders backers that he didn't consider black voter outreach a high priority.

[aikoaiko]

183. Sure, it was about policy, specifically the TPP.

Cummings is a respected leader, but Democrats can still let him know when does something they don't like.

This is what Democracy looks like.

[Gothmog]

184. I am sad that anyone thinks that booing Congressman Elijah Cummings was proper

I am really hopeful that the 15% rule will keep sanders from getting many if any delegates in the Southern primaries

[aikoaiko]

185. Either way, I'm glad Bernie is in the race.

[Gothmog]

188. I am very glad that sanders will NOT be the nominee of the Democratic Party

There are far too many real Democrats who have good memories and these real Democrats will NOT forgive or forget

[aikoaiko]

189. Then Bernie is making us both happy.

It’s a Thanksgiving miracle!

[betsuni]

186. "Ironically, Cummings ... said he agreed with the protesters and consistently opposed trade

legislation." He worked with Sanders on the party platform: "Bernie got 90 percent of what he wanted." From an AP article.

[Hortensis]

181. They can take it. NONE of us will forgive him for Trump

and McConnell and the rest of those traitors, who are NOT really just the same as us.

[uponit7771]

173. No it wasn't

[LAS14]

135. Who ran against Obama in the 2012 primaries? Everyone seems to know, but not me.

I tried Google. Couldn't find any present important names.

tia
las

[George II]

136. I listed them all in my post #68. No one of any significance.

[Eric J in MN]

144. Obama and Biden were trying to cut Social Security.

Bernie Sanders wants to make Social Security more generous.

That's why Bernie said Obama should be primaried. For a voice for Social Security in the primaries.

[George II]

147. Obama didn't want to cut Social Security. It's as simple as that.

Last edited Sun Nov 24, 2019, 11:17 AM - Edit history (1)

What Obama wanted to do is index Social Security INCREASES to the CPI, instead of the existing method (COL). As it turns out, since 2012, the "chained CPI" would have resulted in BIGGER increases through 2019.

Year COL CPI
2019 1.6% 1.6% No difference
2018 2.8% 2.1% COL 0.7% higher
2017 2.0% 2.5% CPI 0.5% higher
2016 0.3% 1.4% CPI 1.1% higher
2015 0.0% -0.1% COL 0.1% higher
2014 1.7% 1.6% COL 0.1% higher
2013 1.5% 1.6% CPI 0.1% higher
2012 1.5% 2.9% CPI 1.4% higher

1 year the result was the same
3 years the existing calculation was higher, 0.9% total
4 years the CPI calculation was higher, 3.1% total

Guess what? Obama was right. Sanders, who wanted to leave the calculation the same, wanted to "cut Social Security".

[Eric J in MN]

149. Obama and Biden wanted to trade Social Security cuts

...for tax increases.

A “Grand Bargain” with Congressional Republicans.

[Cha]

158. How dare he spread that misinformation.

[Cha]

157. No they weren't.. that's a damn myth! Quit

Last edited Sun Nov 24, 2019, 06:55 PM - Edit history (1)

spreading misinformation about President Obama and VP Biden, Eric J in MN.

[Tarheel_Dem]

145. K&R

[Gothmog]

174. This is interesting

Link to tweet