1,600 come to see Sanders at Black church, fewer than 40 were black

[lunamagica]

NORTH CHARLESTON, S.C. — The crowd packed into the gym of a century-old black church here cheered every time Sen. Bernie Sanders attacked inequities that hit disadvantaged African Americans especially hard, applauding his ideas to address “the disparity within the disparity.”

But the problem Sanders faces in appealing to black voters was staring at him as he spoke for an hour recently at the gym of the Royal Missionary Baptist Church: Of the more than 1,600 people who came to see the candidate, fewer than 40 were black.

<snip>

A month before Sanders spoke at Royal Missionary Baptist Church, Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) held a rally in the same room. Her crowd was much more racially varied, including a group of black women who showed up in church hats. The crowds showing up for Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) also have included far more voters of color.


[link:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-and-warren-are-talking-a-lot-about-civil-rights-not-many-blacks-are-listening/2019/03/19/af608ff6-4719-11e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html?utm_term=.9c8116f1cde3|

[MineralMan]

1. Maybe the black members of the church were just being polite

and giving up their seats to make more room for others...yeah...that's the ticket! Very generous of them, I think.

[lunamagica]

4. How nice of them! I bet they will continue this generosity for the rest

of his rallies! So thoughtful of them.

[Hortensis]

12. Even gave up their aisle seats for Sanders' visitors also.

That would be very gracious and generous of the church people. Apparently these parishioners have prior experience of being swamped by enthusiastic political followers and guessing even once might have been interesting but enough for those who checked it out.

?resize=1200%2C800

[MineralMan]

24. But wait...there's one man of color on the left, just behind Bernie, so

clearly...something...

Is that guy on the left wearing a MAGA hat?

[lunamagica]

26. It really looks like it!

Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2019, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

[Hortensis]

29. And another one, and maybe two, on the right. That tall

man would probably be hard to push past if he didn't choose to allow it.

Btw, I don't think that's a MAGA hate; I looked, and the letters on the left margin would be M and G. I don't think my husband has any red caps (he wears them all the time fishing, which means he's liable to show up anywhere in them), but I'm going to go make sure he does not.

[sheshe2]

76. Actually it looks to say F**K TRUMP.

I had to expand my screen to see it.

[MineralMan]

89. Very nice!

Red caps with progressive slogans. Wonderful!

[sheshe2]

123. Classy. nt

[Celerity]

108. yes

[RandySF]

127. Is he wearing a baseball cap in church?

Sorry for being old fashioned, but I would have had the shift beaten out of me when I was a kid.

[Gothmog]

190. I also looked for non-whites in the crowd

Link to tweet

[Hortensis]

198. :) Most don't seem to be feeling it. Need more warm-up?

Some are open to it, others just not into religion I imagine. I'm not a person of faith, but I am always respectful when visiting houses of worship, which are deeply important to their members.
I would even if they weren't there. Seriously.

[Politicub]

142. Oh, you.

[WeekiWater]

2. Church needed a little diversity.

[japple]

49. Thank dog you added the sarcasm smilie else you would've

had lots of rocks thrown at you.

[itsrobert]

3. This was commentated in real time on Twitter

By Soledad O'Brien and Black Twitter.

[Cha]

99. Good to know.. Mahalo.

[Gothmog]

191. And by others

Link to tweet

[floppyboo]

6. I should hope there was a room of black women! Annual international event

where Harris was not holding a rally, but was given a platform to speak at an annual event that has the benefit of a 300,000 membership - the oldest and largest international black women's sorority in the WORLD!

They gave her that platform, and that is nothing to sneeze or yawn at! She will most definitely be able to use her university friends to help her get the recognition.

Just wanting to put the facts in perceptive. Bernie obviously does not have the same ties.

[NurseJackie]

7. The demographics are puzzling, yet they reveal a lot.

That means that 2.5% of the attendees were POC... AND it was in a traditionally/historically black church.

But the problem Sanders faces in appealing to black voters was staring at him as he spoke for an hour recently at the gym of the Royal Missionary Baptist Church: Of the more than 1,600 people who came to see the candidate, fewer than 40 were black.

Were the church members not even invited? Perhaps the building just being used as a centrally-located public meeting space (in the same way that one rents a banquet area at the local Hampton Inn?)

Or, were the church member simply not interested in attending? Was this a public snub of Bernie?

I honestly believe that BS has a difficult time in connecting with the AA community because he's so accustomed to the very white demographics of his home state of Vermont. The Black or AA population in Vermont is just 1.3% so it's understandable that BS would have limited exposure or communication regarding many of the things that affect the lives of the AA community.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/vermont-population/

[lunamagica]

14. For whatever reason he left the diversity of his native Brooklyn and settled on what

is probably the most homogeneous state in the nation. Has lived there for decades, with very little if any interaction with minorities.

It's not surprising that POC are not flocking to him in the couple of years he's been running for president. There is no history of recing out to them.

Yes, I know about Chicago. That's not enough.

[Kahuna7]

38. But he voted for Jesse Jackson, damn it! Try to keep up!

Just kidding.

[lunamagica]

39. Oh, I forgot about that! So we have Chicago AND Jessie Jackson! Now, that's different!

[George II]

51. Vermont, a moderately sized state geographically, has less than 9,000 African Americans (1.4%)

[NurseJackie]

91. When any candidate lives in a bubble, he (or she) is at a disadvantage...

When any candidate lives in a bubble, he (or she) is at a disadvantage in being able to understand the issues and challenges and priorities of others who are not like him (or her).

Just sayin.

[Blue_true]

110. If Bernie and his people bring up Chicago, his opponents

should bring up him not inviting the Vermont NAACP to his shindig last year, the only African Americans there were imports (West and Turner).

[MineralMan]

8. Someone took a video at the event:

Link to tweet

[lunamagica]

9. Thanks! They weren't kidding. That crowd couldn't be any whiter

[MineralMan]

10. I saw about four black faces on that video, so the audience

wasn't all white, after all. Like I said earlier, I think the black members of the church gave up their places out of sheer politeness and good will.

[lunamagica]

17. You have great eyesight. After watching again, I could only spot one black lady

But the crowd is really getting into the Gospel music!

[MineralMan]

22. There is a black woman in the left foreground at the beginning

of the video, but you can only see her before the video starts. I saw two black men in the crowd near the end of the video, and, of course there was the man on the podium.

On Twitter, someone pointed out that the people were clapping on the first and third beats of the music, instead of on the offbeats, which is more common in black church worship music. I think that person found it rather amusing.

[lunamagica]

25. I bet this was the first time for most of them at that kind of service. I commented on them

getting into the music because I also found it amusing. Really, it's all a show for Bernie. All for Bernie.

[Hortensis]

18. Sure. Guessing many are probably avoiding a number of the

political events that disrupt their religious community and observances.

[MineralMan]

23. In reality, I think the Sanders campaign rented that gymnasium for

the rally, and that it wasn't really a function sponsored by the church. On that church's website, mention is made of rentals of spaces at the church campus by outside groups. Still, you might think some members would show up for such a rally, but it doesn't appear that they did. Maybe the church didn't publicize the event.

[Hortensis]

27. :) Not a chance everyone didn't know. MAJOR zoo time.

It was a Thursday, and a large church like will typically have weekday activities scheduled, such as Bible study groups, youth group activities, grief or substance counseling, choir practice, committee meetings, etc.

But certainly this congregation is very used to, and I imagine proud of, accommodating political circuses in election seasons.

[MineralMan]

28. In that case, the congregation studiously avoided being there.

Not surprising, really. All those strange white folks and that. Best stay at home 'til it's over.

[Hortensis]

42. I expect I would. Except for someone special to me.

Not quite the same thing, but I was once near a Trump rally while traveling and seriously considered catching the bus over, but adding even one body to his mob seemed wrong. Also, more important, my husband couldn't imagine why I'd want to but insisted on accompanying me. And I needed the points to drag him to a couple of gardens and nurseries later in the week.

[George II]

32. If it's at an all-black church chances are it's in a mostly black neighborhood.

[lunamagica]

34. It is a mostly black neighborhood. Not a good sign for the Sanders campaign

[George II]

33. To be fair, there's a woman with purple hair.

[lunamagica]

37. Oh well then. That's diversity

[floppyboo]

11. shoot - not following tweets. But I've seen some pictures

and why should anyone be surprised.

Also, as a supporter of Bernie, I was sad at first glance that it looked so male and white. Then I drew the pic in quandrants, and noticed a bunch of heads under the armpits of others and saw they were women! Women are shorter! Who knew! Also, a bunch of people that on closer inspection, I couldn't decide where they were from. Yes, white males in a crowd stand out.

Maybe that'll get through to the campaign. Put all women in high heels! hahahahha

[NurseJackie]

13. "Heads under the armpits"

"Heads under the armpits"

In case anyone is tempted, I certainly hope that nobody embarrasses themselves by trying to argue that the POC couldn't be seen easily because they're darker and the lighting was bad. Seriously, don't do it! Just don't. It's wrong. It's offensive.

[Kahuna7]

31. Now be kind...

but then again...

[MineralMan]

36. By the way, there are lots of comments on Twitter

below that video:

Link to tweet

[SweetieD]

152. This is so cringey.

[Docreed2003]

88. White people clapping on the 1 and the 3

Smh...

[Gothmog]

192. I also so the video

Link to tweet

[BooScout]

15. That's just sad.

[lunamagica]

20. It is pathetic

[BooScout]

21. Yup...that too.

[sheshe2]

103. He can't win...

He can't win without the black vote, the women's vote or Hill supporters vote. I am just not sure what he is doing. He is not doing himself any favors. I just don't get it. I don't.

[lunamagica]

129. It's a really bizarre strategy, She

[floppyboo]

16. I don't think anyone is confident about Sanders sweeping the red states

However, hope prevails!

There is a very strong machine that has been working hard to get the Democratic Party message out to these states for a long time, and it isn't Bernie's. That's no secret.

Still some time! Go Bernie!

[lunamagica]

19. He's had three years to get their support. Very little gained in such a long time.

[getagrip_already]

40. he doesn't ask fr advice from people he has basic differences with.....

So no outreach to the black community. Just consultants.

[lunamagica]

41. And here is the result.

[RandySF]

128. This is about convention delegates

[lunamagica]

35. It really does.

[mia]

43. The Royal Missionary Baptist Church rents out their facilities for events.

Available Rentals Include (but are not limited to):

Weddings
Wedding Receptions
Anniversaries
Prayer Breakfasts
Business Meetings
Conferences
Banquets
Retreats
Holiday & Birthday Parties
Fundraisers
Reunions

https://royalmbc.org/index.php/campus/family-life-center

[lunamagica]

44. And?

[mia]

45. Probably all church members aren't notified about who is renting the facilities.

Attendees are recruited by the respective candidates, and Bernie probably doesn't have as many people off color on his email list.

[lunamagica]

47. It was a black church in a black neighborhood. Why did the Sanders camp choose to hold

a rally there? My guess is that it was to show that contrary to popular belief, he has strong support in the black community.

I have no doubt this was heavily advertised there, because if they really meant to have a rally for his base only, choosing that venue was a huge fail.

[mia]

53. I agree with you.

That venue was chosen for political purposes in the hope that Sanders would attract more African American support.

[dsc]

133. actually it was likely one of the largest places available that wasn't a right wing mega church

or a school (a school may well have turned him down).

[whathehell]

153. Maybe it was part of his outreach.

He's already addressed the perceived lack of diversity in his last campaign and vowed big improvement in this one.

[MyNameGoesHere]

58. Added one

Photo ops gone horribly wrong

[CentralMass]

46. Not to dispute your point but 1,000 came to see Kamala Harris in February.

Here is link to the event https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/kamala-harris-introduces-herself-to-south-carolina-with-bbq-and/article_d2fc4d9a-307d-11e9-ab7b-13ad832a771c.html

If you page through tge image links it looks like white people are the majority representation there.

[lunamagica]

48. Article blocked.

[George II]

55. Here's one of the photographs, pretty diverse group of people and looks like a majority of Blacks:

?resize=1200%2C813

[Kahuna7]

59. That's Kamala's rally. nt

[George II]

60. Right, I thought that's what CentralMass was referring to (the photo is from his/her link)

[CentralMass]

74. Correctm that link was from Kamala Harris's February rally.

I'm not try to stir the pot but rather note that at both rallies tgerd sedms to be a preety large shite attendance.

[sheshe2]

107. UM.

Favor please, correct your spelling. Your post reads poorly and says things I know you do not mean.

Amusing though.

Thanks.

[Blue_true]

113. That was surprising, CentralMass writes pretty well, that post surprised me.

I didn't understand it actually, which surprised me.

[sheshe2]

116. No clue what they said.

Not one.

[Blue_true]

119. I thought initially that a foreign language was being used.

Some DUERS do that on occasion to make a point. But no language came to mind, so I ended up a little shocked, but mostly surprised.

[CentralMass]

73. That is a fact. It is a diverse group.

[George II]

94. Yes, that's from Kamala Harris' rally a few weeks ago.

[OilemFirchen]

77. That's just the first dozen or so rows.

Can you map this out into quadrants, please?

[Blue_true]

111. That was for Kamala, the church was packed on all levels. nt

[George II]

112. That was my point - LOTS of African Americans at her event and yet...

...only about 40 of 1600 at the same room for Sanders.

[Blue_true]

118. Lots of Whites were at her rally also. nt

[Gothmog]

205. Senator Harris is going to be a Texas Southern this weekend

I have a law firm function that night and so will probably not try to go

Link to tweet

[Power 2 the People]

67. Shhhhhh. We wouldn't want to spoil the Bernie bashing party here by revealing the majority

of Kamala's crowd was white too. Bernie just happened to have 600 more people in attendance so the crowd was a little more spread out.

[mcar]

71. ...

[Blue_true]

115. Come-on MCAR.

Having people only on the first level clearly is a larger crowd that having both levels packed. Yeah, now that I think of it, your response pretty much is mine and I will raise you a

[mcar]

120. I'll see your

and raise you a

[Blue_true]

121. I fold, you win. nt

[WeekiWater]

79. That appears to be a very diverse crowd.

And comparing a basketball arena to a historically black church in this context isn’t too cool.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

104. You got that right!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Blue_true]

114. How did Bernie have more people in attendance.

Look at the pictures of the two rallies, Bernie's crowd was only on the first level, Kamala had both levels packed. Your claim is astounding given that a person's eyes can easily see that it is incorrect.

[Power 2 the People]

141. Yes,use your own eyes.

"Bernie's crowd was only on the first level." Why would you say something so provably false?

[Blue_true]

144. There was an upper level about 8 feet above the lower level(s).

Your picture showed the two levels of the lower level. If you look at a shot of the Bernie crowd, you will see that the uppermost level about 8 feet above the lower levels was completely empty. In the Harris crowd, the lowermost levels were packed and the level at 8 feet was also packed, all to the point that an observer would worry about overcrowding.

[Power 2 the People]

146. First you insisted that there were no Bernie supporters above the first level.That was false.

I'm not going to go tit for tat with you until we get to who had more on the roof of the church gym. Why are you arguing over facts that the Washington Post and CBS reported?

[Blue_true]

149. Yes, I am arguing the reports.

Even a partially blind person could see that Harris had a larger crowd. Reporters take political positions also and distort reality due to that, one have to look no farther than Bernie's campaign speechwriter David Sirota and Fox News. So it is entirely possible that biased reporters reported Harris' crowd size. I am just telling you what the eyes of any reasonable person would see. You are right about tit for tat, I have no desire to continue debating this with you, both our minds are made up and we use "evidence" to support our position. Have a good day.

[Power 2 the People]

151. A good day to you also.

[Power 2 the People]

143. I am not providing the attendance figures. CBS and the Washington Post are.

Harris said at a town hall Friday evening attended by 1,000 people at Royal Family Life Center in North Charleston. "That is not justice."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kamala-harris-2020-democratic-candidate-sets-sights-on-south-carolina-in-first-campaign-swing/

[Blue_true]

147. It is clear to the eye that Harris had a much larger crowd at the same venue than Bernie did.

That is rather clear. The only thing that seems true to me is Harris had a bigger, diverse crowd. How organization got their numbers is irrelevant, the Harris crowd was into standing room and the upper level 8 feet above the stage, Bernie's people were all seated on the first levels with no one standing along the walls and no one on the level 8 feet above the stage.

[Power 2 the People]

148. I tend to believe the professionals at the Washington Post and CBS who do this for a living

over what "seems true to you" and your "eye."

[Blue_true]

150. Good enough, have a good day. nt

[George II]

132. Really?

[Blue_true]

145. I have tried to explain the differences in the pictures, just like you have George.

It is very clear that Harris not only had a much bigger crowd, but also a much more diverse crowd.

[George II]

156. Yes. George Costanza had an saying about things like this.

[whathehell]

155. Yes, I think you're on to something..

unfortunately.

[namahage]

175. 600 more people?

Why the obsession on crowd size as compared to Democrats? Sounds like someone else we know...

[Power 2 the People]

197. LOL

No No No. Nice try. My original post was in response to the text in the OP:

A month before Sanders spoke at Royal Missionary Baptist Church, Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) held a rally in the same room. Her crowd was much more racially varied, including a group of black women who showed up in church hats. The crowds showing up for Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) also have included far more voters of color.

I pointed out that according to reports,Bernie's crowd was 40% larger than Senator Harris crowd and it would have been harder to pinpoint the racial makeup of the crowd since it was significantly larger and more spread out.

Plus,based on pictures from the Sanders event it is obvious that they weren't being truthful about the racial makeup of the crowd. There was a significantly larger representation of POC than the Washington Post's estimate of "less than 40." You can count at least 30 POC standing behind him in this picture alone:

[pnwmom]

200. There's a big difference between 5% and 50%. n/t

[Power 2 the People]

201. Yes and there's a big difference between 7% and 70%

[TwilightZone]

68. You might want to take another look at the pictures.

They don't support your assertion.

[Blue_true]

117. I don't see how the poster even could make such a claim.

It is very clear that Harris' crowd was close to twice the size of Bernie's. This may be why Bernie supporters went wild in 2016, they were wedded to rally crowd size and when Hillary beat Bernie soundly despite having smaller rally crowds, the Bernie supporters thought things were fixed when they weren't fixed for Hillary.

[George II]

50. Here's the photograph being discussed:

[lunamagica]

52. He doesn't look very happy. Quite a few sour faces in the crowd too. Strange

[Docreed2003]

95. They're waiting on his "greatest hits"

The new album hasn't taken off yet.

[LiberalLovinLug]

54. This obsession with Bernie Sanders on DU is off the charts.

Thanks for keeping him relevant!

[lunamagica]

56. No, thank you for the kick!

[Cha]

131. BS needed to keep himself relevant

by hiring 3rd party "attack dogs".

Sanders Promised Civility but Hired Twitter Attack Dog - The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/

[oldsoftie]

57. Unless they were prevented form seeing him, all this means is they prefer another.

Or arent in campaign mode yet.

[vermont farmguy]

61. Many of you need to be more informed

Bernie Sanders is a leader for justice for African Americans. And diversity is a big component of his campaign. Most of his campaign staff are women and many are people of color. Most of the comments here on this thread and thread itself seems biased. What you are missing is that so many people came out and he is beginning to reach many folks in South Carolina. His campaign will be a major factor in the South Carolina Primary. Those 1600 people there will be working while you all on this thread will still be pontificating about stuff you don't know much about. Years of work in the grassroots will play itself out this time. Bernie's supporters, white and black, will be a major factor.

[lunamagica]

62. A black friend on another board said

"It is clear, PoC and white people, including "progressive" white people, have a very different understanding of what a "diverse" crowd looks like!"

I agree with him.

[Cha]

101. Gracias for that, Luna!

[sheshe2]

105. I agree with him as well, luna.

[Kahuna7]

65. We need to be more informed? Inform me then. Whenever he's asked about addressing racial disparity..

He's all about, all reparations matter. He conflates racism with class. And has decided that addressing class and income disparity will cure racism. I don't know many black people who will agree with that view.

Link to tweet

[WeekiWater]

81. The lift all boats approach of Sanders...

Stands in direct opposition to what you claim.

[MineralMan]

92. Welcome to DU!

We need input from diverse states like Vermont, for sure...

[George II]

98. "a leader for justice for African Americans"

Any specifics? Anything between say around 1963 and 2000, or 2010, or even 2015?

[Kahuna7]

109. No specifics aside from active in college (over 50 years ago) and

voted for Jesse Jackson. That's it.

[Cha]

100. Back at you.. "..need to be more informed.."

[chwaliszewski]

63. Is it Bernie bashing time already?

[lunamagica]

64. Bashing? I posted an article stating a fact. How is that bashing?

[chwaliszewski]

72. The intention, I suppose.

Why post something positive about the candidate you like when you can post something negative about one you don't like? All of the Democratic candidates have warts in one way or the other. But you've made your intentions clear in past postings; you don't like Bernie. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1057255

[NurseJackie]

87. It's the primaries.

All of the Democratic candidates have warts in one way or the other.

Are you suggesting that if we Democrats don't discuss the "warts" and flaws and vulnerabilities and weaknesses... then the GOP will kindly go along and NOT use those flaws in the general election?

Isn't NOW the time to talk about, and hash out, and learn the TRUTH about candidates... BEFORE it's too late?

Speaking of which... have you heard anything new about Bernie and Jane's tax returns? They've had several years to produce them, but they haven't. Why is that? What are they hiding? (Or... is that one of those "warts" that we're supposed to ignore and not talk about?)

[ZeroSomeBrains]

69. I see very few posts about why people like their candidate

I have posted positive things about other candidates and their positions when they post something about their candidate. I loved it when I saw more proposals from Senator Warren or what Senator Harris had in terms of reparations. I hope to see more ideas from all the candidates in the coming months.

There are polls that have Senator Sanders slightly ahead or a tie with VP Biden. I feel that since Sanders has been getting more support in the primary polls that there have been more attacks on him from the right. The same will happen to whoever the front-runner is. Hillary had very high favorability ratings early and that collapsed after a while. We will see how the process plays out. For the record I am excited to see everyone on the debate stage. We have a plethora of good candidates.

[ehrnst]

70. There are those Democrats who don't feel a need to

idolize a good candidate - in fact, even t a candiate that they see is the best in a large field. I think the majority of people don't expect a candidate that is tailored to their user preferences.

Not all candidates feel that any dissent is evidence of corruption.

Some people, including Democrats understand that candidates are human, and the most qualified are the result of compromises, because that's the reality of politics, and that doesn't indicate a lack of enthusiasm.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

75. I would venture all candidates find dissent and corruption as being different

Being corrupt in my view is not divesting from your business and profiting off your power. Being corrupt is refusing to stand up for a permanent legal resident who was brutally murdered because of a financial interest that country has in you and your family. As for compromise, that is a basic reality of politics. But having a stand on an issue that may not become reality for a long time has merit in getting the idea out into the society. No one is perfect but this primary field has much more intelligence and grace than anything coming from the other side.

[ehrnst]

78. I would venture that candidates who consider any dissent from them to be evidence of "corruption"

are the ones who negating the reality of politics, who don't understood compromise, and are the ones claiming the mantle of perfection. That sort of dualistic worldview doesn't seem to acknowledge any intelligence or grace in anyone else who dares to think they are just as or more qualified than they are for an office.

Many of those ideas have been out there in society for decades, and anyone who claims them as their personal political trademark is going to be challenged, and rightly so.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

80. I don't see where anyone thinks Senator Sanders is perfect

Sanders worked with McCain to reform the VA. He was a crucial vote for the ACA. He voted to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell. There are countless other votes where he has had to deal with practical realities. He has compramised in the past and will continue to do so. I don't understand the apoplectic rage this early in the primary season.

[ehrnst]

82. You are correct. You don't "see" or understand what I'm talking about

as your characterization of constructive debate, or reasonable criticism as "apopleptic rage" indicates.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

84. I didn't see any constructive debate anywhere in your comments

Just a thread of insults and general anger. I hear criticisms all the time about Senator Sanders. That's perfectly fine. Throwing out nonspecific generalities and oversimplifying about what all people who support a candidate think is acting apoplecticly.

[ehrnst]

85. Again, you are correct. You don't see it.

That's perfectly fine.

And there's not a hint of "apoplecticly," insults, "general anger" or indignation in your calm, measured response at all. Not even a little bitty bit.

[NurseJackie]

86. Nobody is bashing Bernie. What an absurd accusation.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. It's ALWAYS Bernie bashing time... it NEVER ends, which tells you he's WINNNNNING!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Gothmog]

126. No one took sanders seriously in 2016 and so sanders was not vetted

No one took sanders seriously and so he was not vetted. Vetting is important I amso glad that sanders is being vetted this cycle https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/28/why-bernie-sanders-has-an-uphill-climb-ahead/?utm_term=.1b4f90c2a717

Finally, what happens when the oppo dump on Sanders comes? We have no idea, because it never happened in 2016. Clinton was so terrified of alienating his supporters and seeing them vote for Jill Stein in the general election (or not vote at all) that she tiptoed around him for pretty much the entirety of the primary campaign. That doesn’t mean that he’ll be destroyed when stories about the more colorful aspects of his history start cropping up, but there’s just no way to know.

Which is what we could say about the Sanders candidacy as a whole: There’s no way to know how it’s going to go. But he’s got his work cut out for him.

See also https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign-donald-trump/index.html?utm_source=twCNNp&utm_content=2019-02-20T14%3A52%3A07&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social%C2%A0

2. How will he withstand more scrutiny and more attacks?
One of the secrets to Sanders' success in 2016 was that no one -- most especially Clinton -- thought he had any chance of going anywhere in the race. Clinton largely ignored him for the better part of 2015, allowing some problematic parts of Sanders' record for Democrats -- most notably his voting record on guns -- to go unnoticed. (When the race began to tighten, Clinton gently prodded Sanders on guns and health care.) Sanders, too, largely flew under the radar of investigative reporters for major news outlets who were busy looking into Clinton, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and others seen as more viable candidates. (That reality clearly benefited Donald Trump in the early days of the campaign, as well.)

Sanders will get no pass -- from either the media or his fellow candidates -- this time around. He is among the frontrunners -- and will be treated as such. His wife's time as president of Burlington College could well come up. And his opponents will do a deep dive into his nearly 30 years of votes as a member of the House and Senate. This is all very normal stuff in a campaign. But not for Sanders.

The CNN polling reflects the fact that sanders is being vetted

[Me.]

66. Amazing Thread

+1

[bernie59]

83. Has the discussion of our candidates

really descended into some kind of "Where's Waldo?" game of finding black faces in crowds? Where does it go from here?

[NurseJackie]

90. When such things are in DIRECT contradiction to the claims made by the candidate and supporters...

... then it's absolutely relevant and appropriate to call out the lies and exaggerations.

Where does it go from here?

Did you hear the one where BS is supposed to have voted "with the Democrats" a whopping NINETY-NINE-PERCENT of the time?? Ninety-nine percent! Amazing huh? I've been hearing that for three years now. Turns out it's a LIE. It's not 99%. The reality is that BS only "votes with Democrats" closer to 80% of the time.

Should we say nothing and let the 99% lie stand as "the truth"? Or should we play "Where's Waldo" and point out the truth!?

[bernie59]

97. Truth is a fascinating thing

Pilate asked "what is truth?" - I usually don't think of ancients being so cynical.

And I think Mark Twain said something like "Truth is very precious - we must use it sparingly". Nice play on words.

More in my time, John Lennon simply sang "Just gimme some truth".

I happy to get all the truth I can get, especially about Bernie Sanders. Would be interested in understanding where he diverged from the Democrats.

[MineralMan]

93. Welcome to DU!

Is your name Bernie, or are you the 59th Bernie fan?

[bernie59]

96. 59th cousin I reckon

I was actually a part of DU many years ago (lost my login and never bothered to create a new one until now) - I think the next two years are going to be quite exciting.

[Eliot Rosewater]

166. Exciting?

[bernie59]

203. Exciting doesn't always mean enjoyable

but it still is exciting.

[Gothmog]

125. I watched repeats of the video of this event and I admit that I was looking for non-white faces

40 seems high

African American voters are key members of the base of the party

[NurseJackie]

136. "40 seems high" --- Were the church's OWN MEMBERS not invited?

40 seems high

Were the church's OWN MEMBERS not invited? (ie: they being snubbed)

Or were they simply not interested in attending? (ie: they were snubbing Bernie)

African American voters are key members of the base of the party

Yes they do. I'm surprised that this isn't something that matters very much to the BS campaign. Considering the demographics of a place like Vermont, I guess that fact would be something that's easy for some people to forget if they seldom "got out". That's a sad commentary.

[progressoid]

160. The regular occupants of the facilitites aren't generally part of the rental agreement.

Campaigns rent union halls, churches, coffee shops, schools, etc. The regular occupants if those facilities aren't expected to be invited.

I saw Elizabeth Warren at rental space in a bowling alley earlier this year. The bowling alley didn't advertise to their patrons that she was going to be there. Nor did the Warren campaign seek out the bowler demographic. This was just an available space to rent.

[NurseJackie]

161. While true, it really doesn't provide an answer to my previous questions.

Was it an "invite only" event, and were POC/AA folks overlooked and not invited? Nobody suggested that they were "part of the rental" so it's unclear why that crude reference was included, but nevertheless, "expectations" aside, it cannot be denied that the exiting membership and local community would likely provide a ready-made audience for a demographic that the BS campaign struggles with.

If they were invited, why didn't they show up? If they weren't invited, why not?

If it was first-come-first-serve... open invitation to all... it says a lot that the church's own membership (would would most certainly have been aware of the event) would have decided to sit it out.

Nor did the Warren campaign seek out the bowler demographic.

I wasn't aware that BOWLERS were an important demographic. Tell me more.

[progressoid]

162. Yes, yes, it was most certainly by invite only.

That's the way all the campaigns do it. They open the phone book to the "A's" and start inviting people. As soon as they have enough RSVPs to fill the venue, they move on to printing signs and buttons.

[NurseJackie]

163. Looks like I've touched a sensitive nerve.

They open the phone book to the "A's" and start inviting people.

So only the people who have a publicly listed landline are invited, eh?

I found the following that explains that North Charleston, SC is a city that is MAJORITY BLACK OR AA.

The population density in North Charleston is 876% higher than South Carolina. ... In North Charleston 45.20% of the population is White. In North Charleston 47.17% of the population is Black or African American. In North Charleston 2.28% of the population is Asian.

What are the demographics of the area or neighborhoods that are covered in the telephone directory that they used? Any other explanation for the disparity between the ethnic makeup of the attendees vs the the demographics of North Charleston, SC?

[progressoid]

173. No nerves touched, thanks very much.

When you ask a ludicrous question, you get a ludicrous answer.

[NurseJackie]

178. Oh, it's a valid question. The evasive non-responses confirm it.

When you ask a ludicrous question, you get a ludicrous answer.

Oh, it's a valid question. The evasive non-responses confirm it.

The church and the city were not chosen at random or by accident. Yet despite the BS campaign's best efforts, they couldn't get the AA community to even show enough interest to simply come and listen to what he has to say.

They didn't even want to hear what he had to say. They stayed away.

Now that's just sad.

Did you see the photos from Harris' event AT THE SAME LOCATION just prior? Photos of the crowd and attendees ACCURATELY reflect that majority black demographics of the community.

No nerves touched, thanks very much.

The obvious wincing betrays the denials.

[bernie59]

204. +1 Now we are getting the inside story on how politics really works.

Any idea how they decide on what snacks to buy for the VIPs?

[George II]

169. Was it a Black bowling alley?

[NurseJackie]

172. I found a photo...

Here's the "organizing event" that was held in a Council Bluff's bowling alley. The city's demographics include a white population of 85% and a black population of 2%. As anyone can see, the mix of attendees at that event appear to be consistent with the demographics.


Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren speaks at an "organizing event" held at a bowling alley in Council Bluffs, Iowa, Jan. 4, after forming an exploratory committee for the 2020 presidential race. (Newscom/Reuters/Brian Snyder)

[progressoid]

176. That's the one. I know three of the people in the front row behind the media.

Too many people showed up and a lot of us had to stand outside. Most of the people around me were actually from Nebraska. Nobody went bowling afterwards.

[NurseJackie]

181. I wonder if everyone in the room has a last name that begins with A or B.

I know three of the people in the front row behind the media.

Almost famous!

[progressoid]

183. They're all white too!

[NurseJackie]

186. Consistent with the demographics of Council Bluffs, no surprises there. But what IS surprising...

Consistent with the demographics of Council Bluffs, no surprises there. But what IS surprising... is BS holds an event at a Black church, in a Black neighborhood, in a MAJORITY BLACK city... only 2.5% of the attendees are black.

Ouch!

That's some serious shade right there! They snubbed him bad! Didn't EVEN want to hear-him-out!

Damn!

[progressoid]

188. Now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing any AA or Hispanic people at Elizabeth's rally.

But that's understandable since we are super white around here.

But there were a lot of women! It's clear from this rally that Warren has a problem with the White male demographic.

[NurseJackie]

189. Obviously so. That's a reasonable and rational conclusion. Thanks for sharing that observation.

It's clear from this rally that Warren has a problem with the White male demographic.

Obviously so. That's a reasonable and rational conclusion. Thanks for sharing that observation.

Clearly, the male/female ratio in Council Bluffs Iowa isn't a 90/10 mix... and it definitely makes sense that the LACK of men in that photo (as you noted) indicates that Warren isn't connecting with male voters.

Similarly, I think it's perfectly rational to arrive at the same conclusions regarding the BS event in North Charleston, SC. It's been obvious for quite some time (and even more so in that majority black/AA city) that Bernie isn't connecting with AA/POC voters.

[George II]

168. Kamala Harris had a rally at the same Church in the same hall, the two events were weeks apart....

Here's a photograph. Hmmm:

[NurseJackie]

171. That's very interesting!

Thanks very much for sharing that photo. It looks like it represents the ENTIRE COMMUNITY with the demographic percentages that I found earlier for you.

[progressoid]

184. So you're saying those are memebers of the church?

Here's a screen grab from a video someone posted above.

Does that mean the POC in this shot are church members as well?

[George II]

185. No, I never said that, but I would bet that many of the people in my picture either are members....

....or live in the neighborhood.

I'd also bet that many of the people in your picture are NOT members or live in the neighborhood.

[progressoid]

187. Exactly.

This subthread is in response to Nurse Jackie's query, "Were the church's OWN MEMBERS not invited?"


Without knowing the identities of the people in attendance and the members of the church, both photos prove nothing whatsoever.

[George II]

196. To answer her question, it's obvious that most if not all in attendance at Sanders' rally....

...were neither church members or residents of the neighborhood.

On the other hand, unless unless Kamala Harris took the unlikely step of busing in more than a thousand Blacks to her rally, there's a good chance that some were members of the church and many of the people in attendance were from the neighborhood.

I suppose what those two prove is that Kamala Harris attracted a very diverse crowd to her rally and Sanders attracted a very non-diverse crowd, even though both rallies were at the same Black church in a mostly Black neighborhood.

Make of it what you wish.

[Power 2 the People]

193. Wow! This picture points out the dis-ingeniousness of the Wa Po article

How can they say there were less than 40 POC in the audience of 1,600 when there are at least 30 standing behind him? They need to retract that statement. Obviously Mr. Bezos has an agenda. We need to keep fighting!

[NurseJackie]

199. Yes... repositioned by the BS campaign as political props and window dressing.

They need to retract that statement.

there are at least 30 standing behind him

Yes... repositioned by the BS campaign as political props and window dressing.

[ehrnst]

174. Sounds like they weren't interested. Can you imagine that Bernie would refuse black people

from showing up at his events?

[NurseJackie]

182. They didn't even want to BOTHER to just come-and-listen. I think...

They didn't even want to BOTHER to just come-and-listen. I think that sounds to me like they've made up their mind. They've heard enough already. (And truth be told, I don't disagree with them on that point. I've heard enough too.)

[Gothmog]

202. This does not bode well for sanders in this state given demographics

Link to tweet

[George II]

165. One really wonders why someone would rent a hall in a Black church located in a Black neighborhood..

...and either not invite a number of Black guests or attract many people from the neighborhood.

There may have been a reason for that, but I can't figure out what it was unless there was an organized snub by the locals?

[NurseJackie]

167. North Charleston, SC is a MAJORITY BLACK city, yet they had an AA attendance percentage of just 2.5%

North Charleston, SC is a MAJORITY BLACK city, yet they had an AA attendance percentage of just 2.5%?? (To be clear, it wasn't 2.5% of the city's AA population... instead it was just 2.5% of the 1600 attendees were AA.)

The population density in North Charleston is 876% higher than South Carolina. ... In North Charleston 45.20% of the population is White. In North Charleston 47.17% of the population is Black or African American. In North Charleston 2.28% of the population is Asian.

Here are some demographic figures I found with a quick google search.

but I can't figure out what it was unless there was an organized snub by the locals?

Considering the demographic percentages shown above, AND, considering that the BS campaign specifically chose a Black church located in a Black neighborhood... well, it seems clear to me that the community was snubbing BS.

This seems to be an ongoing and chronic issue with the BS campaign. I mean it's really no secret and one might think that this is something that would have already been addressed during the intervening years.

[George II]

170. See post #168, a photograph of Harris' rally at the same location.

[namahage]

158. That would be sad, wouldn't it?

Thankfully, Bernie's supporters would do nothing of the sort:

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

194. Having a political rally at a black church for a candidate's SECOND run, where the audience is 97%

Link to tweet

[UniteFightBack]

106. The explanation is simple...obviously the church was gentrified.

[NurseJackie]

137. Were the members snubbed by Bernie (ie: no invites) or were they snubbing Bernie by staying away?

Were the members snubbed by Bernie (ie: no invites) or were they snubbing Bernie by staying away? Or, I suppose it could also be that they weren't actively "snubbing their noses" at him, but they just stayed away because the BS message doesn't resonate with them and BS doesn't connect with them.

All I'm saying is WHICHEVER explanation it is... no matter who did the "snubbing"... it really isn't a very flattering or enviable position for the BS campaign. He just can't connect with the AA community. He doesn't understand the real issues and challenges facing the AA community and other POC.

Clearly, we can do better than BS.

[randomguy2021]

122. South Carolina is an open primary state

And unlike 2016, there will most likely be no Republican primary, so all registered voters can potentially vote in the South Carolina Democratic Primary. As of 2018, the state's demographics are as follows; 67.3% Caucasian, 27.4% African American, 2.1% two or more races, 1.5% other races, 1.4% Asian, and .4% Natives of North America. Just something to keep in mind.

[namahage]

177. Are you saying, then, that we can expect ratfucking,

Republican or otherwise?

[randomguy2021]

180. That is a given in any state with an open primary...

But I was meaning a different electorate than 2016.

[Gothmog]

124. Washington Post-Sanders and Warren are talking a lot about civil rights. Not many blacks are listeni

Link to tweet

NORTH CHARLESTON, S.C. — The crowd packed into the gym of a century-old black church here cheered every time Sen. Bernie Sanders attacked inequities that hit disadvantaged African Americans especially hard, applauding his ideas to address “the disparity within the disparity.”

But the problem Sanders faces in appealing to black voters was staring at him as he spoke for an hour recently at the gym of the Royal Missionary Baptist Church: Of the more than 1,600 people who came to see the candidate, fewer than 40 were black.....

Black voters played a critical role in picking the last two Democratic nominees, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and it’s hard to see a path to the Democratic nomination without significant black support.

About 25 percent of Democratic primary voters in 2016 were African American, and in key states, including South Carolina, the figure was much higher.

[NurseJackie]

140. I think AA and POC voters have learned to listen closely so that they can discern lip-service from...

I think AA and POC voters have learned to listen closely so that they can discern lip-service from sincere understanding and realistic ideas whenever any candidate is trying to woo them for their vote.

Sometimes it's difficult for me to determine if a candidate is sincere or if he (or she) is just saying the words that he (or she) thinks I want to hear... but I guess when people have had GENERATIONS of listening to empty promises, broken promises, or unrealistic promises and plans... it makes sens that they'd have a sharp ear and a discerning eye to be able to critically examine and evaluate the politician's promises and plans so that they can determine what's real and what's not.

[RandySF]

130. African American voters are, generally, no further left than the average primary voter.

Bernie's message didn't sell in 2016, Cynthia Nixon's didn't work out in 2018 and I don't see evidence yet that it's going to be any better in 2020.

[SweetieD]

154. I would say most black people are fairly center. There have been leftist elements in

Black politics for more than a century but on average most of us aren't super liberal or progressive.

[TexasTowelie]

134. K&R.

[Socal31]

135. Bernie isn't currently on my short-list.

But I am uncomfortable with this type of hit.

[lunamagica]

138. Hit? Seriously?'m sorry, but appealing to minority voters is crucial to beat trump

This article is not a hit in any way shape or form. It's just highlighting a very troublesome reaality.

[Blue_Tires]

139. Those numbers while appearing at a black church

in a 50% black community don't bode well...

[whathehell]

157. We are one and a half Years from the next presidential election..

It's still very early days.

[NurseJackie]

164. This has ALWAYS been a weak spot with the BS campaign...

... a smarter candidate would have recognized it and taken action to address it in the interim. Yet, here we are again listening to the same excuses and dismissals that we've heard dozens of times before.

[Gothmog]

195. The line of white people was never ending tonight in a black church in North Charleston

Link to tweet

[corbettkroehler]

159. His 2019 NAACP MLK Day Appearance There Had A Very Diverse Audience [video]

This is a problem but easily resolved with a little elbow grease.

I also suspect that Congressman Clyburn will endorse Bernie in the primary (fingers crossed).

[nycbos]

179. More diversity at a University of Vermont hockey game than a Sanders rally