Unlike Some People, Bernie Hasn't "Evolved"

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

In the Democratic Party presidential primary race, that history sets Bernie apart.

When Bernie was in his thirties, he was attempting to build an independent political party whose purpose, he said, was “to create a situation in which the ordinary working people take what rightfully belongs to them.”

(snip)

In contrast to young Biden, young Bernie was an activist fighting against racial discrimination in education.

(snip)

If we’re serious about taking on the formidable power of the ruling elite and building a society based on equality and democracy, we should look at the candidates’ lifelong records and ask, which of them truly shares those priorities.


https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/03/bernie-sanders-socialism-nationalization-industries

[stonecutter357]

1. I'm not a socialist , I don't think the democratic party is socialist.

[Mr Tibbs]

104. Do you believe that everything should be privatized?

Rather than public ownership of power grids, roads, utilities, etc?

[RandySF]

2. I hope he evolved to some degree

based on his essays on women.

[NurseJackie]

6. One would hope. I think most are unconvinced.

[cwydro]

105. I'm unconvinced.

Completely.

[NurseJackie]

108. When anyone works so tirelessly to demean, diminish, tarnish and divide the Democratic party...

... it kinda makes everything else they do seem suspicious. It's clear that a lot of people are on-to-it at this stage. More every day.

[guillaumeb]

215. Which explains why he stated he would run and govern as a Democrat?

An interesting reply on your part.

[MineralMan]

220. Not as interesting as your random reply as your

only contribution to this thread.

[NurseJackie]

223. It explains nothing of the sort and we all know it.

[guillaumeb]

225. That depends, of course, on how "we all" is defined.

But you are entitled to your opinion.

[Beakybird]

3. He just hired someone who tweeted support for Jill Stein a day before the 2016 election.

[NurseJackie]

14. These are the people who want to sabotage and destroy the Democratic party.

Sirota, Nina Turner, Cornell West (and others) are all working to undermine and divide the Democratic party. No matter the immediate impact and costs, their goal of "destroy to rebuild" is paramount. As long as they can destroy the Democratic party and remake it into a Socialist party, that's what they and groups like Cenk Uygur's "Justice Democrats" and "Our Revolution" (and everyone associated with them) have in mind.

I can only support someone who wants to destroy the GOP. Definitely NOT someone who wants to attack, weaken, undermine, divide and destroy the Democratic Party.

[dalton99a]

27. +1. They are literally anti-Democratic dirty tricksters and provocateurs

[calguy]

227. Kinda like liberal Steve Bannons?

[TheRealNorth]

141. After you are done demonizing Bernie supporters

I don't want to see any crying when they stay home or vote 3rd Party like in 2016.

Have you learned nothing from 2016?

[NurseJackie]

154. Nobody is doing that. What an absurd accusation about me.

After you are done demonizing Bernie supporters

Nobody is doing that. What an absurd accusation about me.

I don't want to see any crying when they stay home or vote 3rd Party like in 2016.

Anyone who stays home or votes third party isn't worth my time. There's nothing that anyone can do to cure such stupidity.

It's a waste of effort to chase down those low-information and immature voters. It serves no good purpose to spend months trying to convince a handful of malcontents that they should do the right thing, instead of pouting or seeking revenge.

All I'm saying is, at this crucial moment... they're going to do what they want to do anyway. As loyal and active Democrats, our time and effort is much better spent ignoring the handful of holdouts and instead convincing thousands of other more mature and rational voters who can take their place.

Have you learned nothing from 2016?

I've learned plenty. "Fool me once", and all that.

[pandr32]

156. Who hasn't learned anything from 2016?

Those who stayed home or voted 3rd party because they refused to support our party nominee contributed to the nightmare we find ourself in now.

[samnsara]

161. i know of no one who stayed home or voted 3rd party..

...however i do remember when some supporters from one side started bullying supporters of the other side during our local caucus. It was mean and nasty.

[mcar]

196. A threat?

This again? Be nice to us or we won't vote Democratic. So you'd be happy to have Dotard get reelected because your feelings are hurt?

[MH1]

17. That's all I would've needed to know, frankly

Except I had already ruled him out for my primary vote.

Goddammit , this time I will have a pen with me in the voting booth so I can write in a good option, if I don't like who's left on the ballot by the time it gets to my state.

[TexasTowelie]

4. I believe in evolution.

I don't particularly like people that are closed-minded and unwilling to consider new information.

[comradebillyboy]

30. +1000

[Mr Tibbs]

106. So which issues does he need to evolve on?

And what should they evolve into?

[TexasTowelie]

192. There are quite a few.

Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2019, 08:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Financial transparency such as releasing his taxes and responding to the inquiries of the FEC. It's been three weeks since he said he would release his tax returns "soon". Why can't Carina, Levi, Dave, and Heather help Jane and Bernie find his tax returns and get them released?

Trade - he is a protectionist.

Gun control - voting against the Brady bill.

Education -placing more emphasis on learning from pre-K through high school since that impacts a larger number of students compared to offering free college tuition.

Russia sanctions - he needs to take a more aggressive stance and also show up to vote.

Racial inequality - he is reluctant to speak about it.

Democrats - Bernie needs to stop criticizing the entire party with terminology such as "establishment" and "elite".

Sexual harassment - he was too busy to notice or take action on in his previous campaign.

Nepotism - while there might not be any laws broken, there are some situations where Bernie and Jane are not acting ethically.

Immigration - a mixed record including comments he made while being interviewed by Lou Dobbs where he was against immigrants coming into the country stealing American jobs, but no condemnation of the Jay Peak scandal. Apparently he didn't have a problem with people who obtained visas and paid large amounts to get into this country. There are a lot of parallels to the recent college admission scandal.

I'm sure that there are other issues, but I'm exhausted from the job interview I had this afternoon.

[Mr Tibbs]

193. The party is evolving into his policies

Not the other way around. The party is adopting many of his core policy proposals. The candidates are adopting his policies.

That's because they poll widely popular across demographics

[ehrnst]

237. No, actually Single Payer was a Democratic policy put forward in 1971.

Teddy Kennedy brought it to Nixon.

Democrats have always been the party of labor, and before they were broken by Reagan, they were the main source of campaign revenue.

Democrat LBJ was the politician who implemented civil rights and voting rights legislation when Sanders was still living in rural, white Vermont.

Democrats have continued to champion civil rights strongly, and not dismissed racism, homophobia and misogyny as "identity politics."

Democrats have long supported reproductive rights, including Planned Parenthood. Senator Sanders has referred perjoratively to Planned Parenthood as "an establishment organization."

Democrats have welcomed the candidacy of women and POC and LGBTQs since before Sanders was even mayor (Google Barbara Jordan) and have never equated celebrating diversity inn Democratic candidates with "discrimination" against white men.

Recently Sanders stated: "We have got to look at candidates not by the color of their skin, not by their sexual orientation or gender and not by their age. I think we have got to try to move us toward a nondiscriminatory society that looks at people based on their abilities, based on what they stand for."

(A few months later, interestingly, he released a list of all the women and POC that his campaign hired....)

You can repeat that Bernie originated long held Democratic Party progressive policies as many times as you like. But it doesn't make it true.

[betsuni]

238. +1

[betsuni]

197. +1

[mcar]

198. Good points

Hope the interview went well.

[TexasTowelie]

222. I think that I did well enough that I'm still in contention.

I believe that I impressed three of the four IT staff in the interview. The fourth person was a computer science professor outside the IT department so he probably will have the least influence in the decision making process. I was honest and admitted areas where I don't have much experience or my experience was from decades ago. Overall, I'd give myself a B+.

[ehrnst]

239. Agreed!

And good wishes on that job interview!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

207. The old "evolved" argument...it's an asset, dontcha know, when prior positions no longer look good.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

240. You mean like when a Senator who now states that they support Gay Marriage voted for DOMA

because they believed that it should be a state's right to ban or approve Gay Marriage,

“I believe the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue,” Sanders said in the 2006 debate.

then refused to voice support for marriage equality in their home state right afterwards during an election year:

When Sanders was asked on Sunday about his vote against the Defense of Marriage Act on CNN, he said that he believed back in 1996 that gay couples had the right to gay marriage. “I thought then and I think now that people have the right to love those folks that they want to love and get married regardless of their sexual orientation,” he said.

That wasn’t the answer his staff gave in 1996, however. His wife and chief of staff Jane Sanders told an Associated Press reporter in July of 1996 that he opposed the law because it weakened the section of the Constitution that says states must respect laws that are made in other states.

“We’re not legislating values. We have to follow the Constitution,” Jane Sanders said. “And anything that weakens the Constitution should be (addressed) by a constitutional amendment, not by a law passed by Congress.”
.....................................................................

In 2006, when the Bush White House proposed an amendment to the Constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman, Sanders spoke out against the Republican plan, saying it was “designed to divide the American people.”

But when Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no. “Not right now, not after what we went through,” he said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/sanders-has-evolved-same-sex-marriage-too-n454081

You mean evolving like that?

[lapucelle]

210. Russian sanctions. N/T

[lapucelle]

211. Criminal justice. N/T

[lapucelle]

212. Funding the military-industrial complex. N/T

[Kahuna7]

5. What activism did Bernie participate in after he left college? I keep asking

and the only thing Bernie cites is his support of Jesse Jackson.

[Uncle Joe]

7. What did Bernie; have to gain from endorsing Jesse, he's from a "small white state?"

[Kahuna7]

68. Ask Bernie.... Morning club video at 30:00 minutes

?t=1788

[NurseJackie]

9. It's a thin resume, that's for sure.

[Uncle Joe]

11. Well in Joe's thick resume, why was he against desegregation in schools? n/t

[NurseJackie]

37. Which item is that? What part of Joe's resume you're referring to? Be specific, please.

[George II]

38. Where do you get that he was against desegregation in schools? I don't think that's true.

[Uncle Joe]

44. Well here is an article from Politico on the subject.

How a Young Joe Biden Turned Liberals Against Integration

Forty years ago, a contentious battle over racial justice gripped Capitol Hill, pitting the nation’s lone African-American senator against the man who would one day become Barack Obama’s vice president. The issue was school busing, a plan to transport white and black students out of their neighborhoods to better integrate schools—and at the time the most explosive issue on the national agenda.

Ed Brooke, a Massachusetts Republican, was the first black senator ever to be popularly elected; Joe Biden was a freshman Democratic senator from Delaware. By 1975, both had compiled liberal voting records. But that year, Biden sided with conservatives and sponsored a major anti-busing amendment. The fierce debate that followed not only fractured the Senate’s bloc of liberals, it also signified a more wide-ranging political phenomenon: As white voters around the country—especially in the North—objected to sweeping desegregation plans then coming into practice, liberal leaders retreated from robust integration policies.

Biden was at the forefront of this retreat: He had expressed support for integration and—more specifically—busing during his Senate campaign in 1972, but once elected, he discovered just how bitterly his white constituents opposed the method. In 1973 and 1974, Biden began voting for many of the Senate’s anti-busing bills, claiming that he favored school desegregation, but just objected to “forced busing.”

Then, as a court-ordered integration plan loomed over Wilmington, Delaware, in 1974, Biden’s constituents transformed their resistance to busing into an organized—and angry—opposition. So Biden transformed, too. That year, Joe Biden morphed into a leading anti-busing crusader—all the while continuing to insist that he supported the goal of school desegregation, he only opposed busing as the means to achieve that end.

(snip)

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/joe-biden-integration-school-busing-120968

[George II]

46. So, he was NOT against desegregation, he was only against forced busing....

....which a huge majority of Americans were against, both white AND black. At the time busing was being debated, only 4% of whites and only 9% of blacks were in favor of busing. And if you look into the history of school busing, you'll see that Biden was on the leading edge of what is now considered a failed policy.

Even the last highlighted sentence YOU provided belies your claim that he was against school desegregation:

"he supported the goal of school desegregation, he only opposed busing as the means to achieve that end"

So, summing up, your premise that Biden was against school desegregation is completely false.

[Uncle Joe]

53. That's like supporting universal health care but allowing the for profit "health" insurance

corporations; which contribute nothing to actual health care to profit from the American Peoples' injury and disease.

Whether it's "popular" or not it won't get you to the place, you claim to want to be, the same holds true for forced busing, without it, does anybody out there honestly believe we be more integrated as a society?

When Bernie (from a small white state) endorsed Jesse Jackson for President, how popular was that?

Bernie literally got slapped in the face for it.

[George II]

57. No it's not. Again, look into the history of school busing and the overall lack of success it had.

There were better ways to desegregate schools. Forced busing has proven to NOT be the key to "school desegregation", and Biden was smart enough to recognize that decades ago.

So, now you're moving off the false premise of Biden being "against school desegregation" to health care? What does health care have to do with what you and I are discussing? Are you conceding that Biden was NOT against school desegregation?

I eagerly await your response.

[Uncle Joe]

63. Without busing we would be more segregated than we are today

I was using the health care approach as a comparable analogy.

You cant' get from A to C without first going through B.

[George II]

64. That's not historically true. In many cities forced busing actually expanded segregation....

I saw it first hand. Once again, look into the history of forced busing and the effect it had on segregation and it's failure.

[BannonsLiver]

94. Sounds like you lived it whereas the OP did not and is just repeating Sirota's TPs

Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2019, 03:15 PM - Edit history (1)

[George II]

100. Yes I did live through it, I was in high school in NYC at the time. Here's part of the historical...

....background behind busing in NYC in the 1960s, a very interesting article on the issues of forced busing AND school desegregation:

https://www.wnyc.org/story/school-boycott-1964/

And books have been written about the failure of busing:

http://whybusingfailed.com/anvc/why-busing-failed/index

The fact is forced busing, while well intended, was an abject failure. Looks like Joe Biden was a leader on this issue by being AGAINST an ultimately failed policy.

[R B Garr]

101. That's exactly what is happening,

“regurgitating the paid liar Sirota’s TP’s”

[ehrnst]

73. So you understand about the ACA being a neccessary "B" on the

way to Universal Health Care.

And you acknowledge that there will be some people who will lose out on the way to health care reform, because like segregation, it's a problem with many different moving parts, and things will be worse for some people before they get better.

One of the other losers in desegregation were the black kids in southern counties who decided to just shut down all public schools rather than desegregate by bussing. The districts opened "Christian" schools that were open only to white children.

There is an entire generation of black children in some areas of the south who missed years of public school education as a result of legislated desegregation and bussing.

https://www.virginiahistory.org/collections-and-resources/virginia-history-explorer/civil-rights-movement-virginia/closing-prince

When a Representative is pressured to vote as his constituents want them to, they often do.

Through his first two years in the Senate, he supported most—but not all—of the anti-busing legislation. In two crucial exceptions, he voted to table the Gurney Amendment in May 1974—and he also voted in favor of the Scott-Mansfield compromise. He sided with Brooke on both votes, and on both occasions their side prevailed by a single vote.

For these few votes, Biden attracted the fury of his white constituents. Delaware residents had formed the New Castle County Neighborhood Schools Association in order to resist desegregation. In June 1974, the group organized an event at the Krebs School in Newport, Delaware—as Brett Gadsden details in Between North and South. The event’s coordinator had recently declared, “We’re going to hound Biden for the next four years if he doesn’t vote our position.” Standing before a Krebs School auditorium packed with angry white parents, Biden explained that he supported busing only as a remedy for “de jure” segregation. He assured the crowd that any segregation in Delaware was “de facto,” and therefore—he claimed—beyond the authority of the courts. The crowd jeered him anyway until he departed. The ugly incident clearly left its mark on the senator.

For another example, see Bernie Sanders' explanation of his votes on gun regulations as per his constituency in Vermont.

"Bernie’s response is that he doesn’t just represent liberals and progressives. He was sent to Washington to present all of Vermont," Pollina said. "It’s not inappropriate for a congressman to support a majority position, particularly on something Vermonters have been very clear about."

"As a rural state with a large number of hunters and other gun owners, Vermont has been less liberal on guns than on most other issues, historically," explained Bertram Johnson, a professor of political science at Middlebury College in Vermont. "He seems to support more regulation of guns than the U.S. presently has, but he recognizes his constituents’ preferences so does not make gun control a priority."

[Docreed2003]

209. +1

Boom

[NurseJackie]

191. Here's what Supreme Court Justice THURGOOD MARSHALL wrote...

In Milliken v. Bradley, a case about busing children in Detroit and passed by a 5:4 vote, Justice Thurgood Marshall dissented. In his dissenting opinion he wrote,

School district lines, however innocently drawn, will surely be perceived as fences to separate the races when, under a Detroit-only decree, white parents withdraw their children from the Detroit city schools and move to the suburbs in order to continue them in all-white schools.

[ehrnst]

203. Crickets...

[ehrnst]

66. Actually, it's not like that at all. UHC is not defined by lack of participation by

for profit mechanisms that partner with it.

Take Medicare, for instance. Or Canada's system. Both use for profit insurance companies in prescription drug delivery.

Are you making what a candidate said or did 40 years ago relevant to their current run?

You may want to be very careful about that...

[Kahuna7]

71. He was against busing. It was very unpopular and busing remedy

was soon phased out.

[George II]

74. Exactly. Although "well meaning", it was an artificial way of desegregating and proved...

...to be a failure overall. It did work in some isolated cases, but for the most part it failed.

And just because someone was against busing (MY parents were against it) doesn't mean that person was against desegregating schools (my parents were VERY much in favor of desegregating schools)

Claiming that someone being against busing is against desegregation is a cheap shot.

[Kahuna7]

70. I was alive at the time. Busing to achieve desegregation was a very

hot and controversial issue. So controversial, it's no longer done.

[WeekiWater]

72. This is a lie being promoted by Stein supporters.

What isn't a lie is that Sanders is on record as having voted against a pathway to citizenship for over ten million people.

[NurseJackie]

80. Sanders also voted against Russian sanctions, didn't he?

And I think he missed an important vote about Russian sanctions.

It's unclear to me why anyone would do anything that benefits Russia or Russian oligarchs.

[WeekiWater]

87. Yes, he did.

In his vote against Russian sanctions he made the excuse that it would impact the Iran Nuclear Deal. How did that work out?

When he voted against a pathway to citizenship for over ten million people he claimed he was against the Visa language. How did that work out?

[NurseJackie]

91. That's not a very progressive voting record. Did you also hear...

That's not a very progressive voting record. Did you also hear that the it's NOT TRUE when people say he "votes with Democrats 99% of the time" ... seriously, that's NOT TRUE. The real data is that he "votes with Democrats" closer to 80% of the time.

The root word of "progressive" is "progress". I must say, I'm not seeing much progress.

In the past I've asked for a list of his legislative accomplishments... but nobody ever gives me one. I think that says a lot.

[George II]

103. Yes, he voted against Russia sanctions when he voted.

[Mr Tibbs]

111. In order to preserve the nuclear deal Obama worked out with Iran

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-iran-and-russia-sanctions

[George II]

116. That's what he said. So why did he vote against the Magnitsky Act?

Those two votes make for a very interesting Venn Diagram. Only one Senator falls within the intersection of the two circles representing the two votes. Know who that is?

[Mr Tibbs]

149. Sanders doesn't often vote for omnibus bills for obvious reasons

Sanders voted for a stricter version of the Magnitsky Act in 2015.

[Mr Tibbs]

110. Bernie was very clear about this

He did so to preserve Obama's Iran treaty. No sinister conspiracy.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-iran-and-russia-sanctions

[NurseJackie]

113. ...

No sinister conspiracy.

Who would he have been "conspiring" with?

again!

[WeekiWater]

128. How did that work out?

He claims to have voted against a pathway to citizenship because of Visa's. How did that work out?

[Mr Tibbs]

129. You are saying "preserving Obama's nuclear treaty bad"

[WeekiWater]

131. I was very clear in what I said.

That's why you avoided answering.

[Kahuna7]

69. Even he admits no legislation..

?t=1788

[Mr Tibbs]

107. His policy proposals are being adopted by the other Dem candidates

He is merely a catalyst

[NurseJackie]

114. ...

His policy proposals

[Mr Tibbs]

118. Yes, he is steering the party in a new direction

It's awesome! Even Hillary changed some of her policies to match his.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democratic-candidates-pressured-by-party-base-split-on-how-liberal-to-be-11553093765

[TexasTowelie]

230. .

[betsuni]

233. LOL

[R B Garr]

8. Biden was a Senator at 29. What was Bernie doing ?

How long did it take him to evolve into public life/ career employment??

[George II]

40. He didn't even register to vote until 11 years after Biden was elected to the Senate.

[R B Garr]

88. Wow, that's quite an evolution in life, and at a later

age, too.

[Beakybird]

10. I wish he would evolve on releasing his tax returns.

[Cha]

12. +1!

[jrthin]

19. +1

[TexasTowelie]

32. +1

[ehrnst]

52. ++++10000.

[R B Garr]

89. +1000

[lunamagica]

139. + a million!

[Little Star]

168. Bingo!

[MineralMan]

13. And he's still trying to build a new political party, but

is running for President as a Democrat. He did that before, and then switched back to his Independent status after losing in the primary. I am a lifelong Democrat, and I vote for Democrats for all elected offices. That's because Democrats do a better job of passing progressive legislation than non-Democrats.

This week, Bernie Sanders hired three people to his campaign staff who voted for Jill Stein in the 2016 general election. Donald Trump is in the White House. That is why I vote for Democrats in every election - to try to prevent people like Donald Trump from being President. Apparently, that is not a priority for Senator Sanders, or he would not have hired third-party voters to help him run his campaign. Simple.

If Bernie Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee in 2020, I will cast my vote for him and try to get others to do the same. That's because I am a lifelong Democratic voter. I did not vote for Jill Stein. I voted for Hillary Clinton, because she was the Democratic nominee. Perhaps Bernie Sanders should hire me, instead of Jill Stein voters.

I will not vote in the Primary election for Bernie Sanders. Not a chance.

[Uncle Joe]

18. Why was Joe Biden against school desegregation? n/t

[MineralMan]

23. I do not know the answer to that question.

I am not in a position to ask him, either. I'm sure someone will, though.

[thucythucy]

112. Biden wasn't "against desegregation."

This is a false narrative (i.e. a lie) being pushed by some.

He was against forced bussing, as explained in posts above.

Always glad to see you, MM!

[MineralMan]

119. Thanks. I hadn't looked into that claim, actually.

I figured it was somehow misstated, though. Forced bussing is a different thing than desegregation. They're related, but not identical at all.

In my city of St. Paul, MN, the schools allow parents to choose any of the schools in the district for their children, who ride the bus every day to that school. If no choice is made, the child goes to the school closest to his or her home. After setting up a number of specialized magnet schools throughout the city, pretty much the majority of students rides the bus now. On my street, at least a dozen busses go by every morning and come back every afternoon. It's lots of traffic, and kids have to get on the bus early and get home late. Due to that, a lot of parents just send their kids to the closer school, where they can walk or ride their bikes. Since most neighborhoods in St. Paul have become very diverse, there's almost a de facto desegregation here, at least in most of the schools.

That does not mean there are no problems, because there are. We still have some schools that have a less diverse population, but there isn't any forced bussing, since parents can opt to have their kids bussed to whatever school they choose.

[R B Garr]

24. Why won't Bernie release his taxes? That is a current

issue. It will actually matter this election cycle.

[Uncle Joe]

28. Race relations are a current issue especially in today's times. n/t

[R B Garr]

29. And we saw how poorly Bernie did with 2016 voters with no improvement.

Biden served our first AA president as VP.

Where are Bernie’s taxes?

[Uncle Joe]

31. So why was Joe against school desegregation? n/t

[TexasTowelie]

48. I see it differently.

There were a lot of people (both whites and minorities) that opposed desegregation. Most people don't want to ship their children to other locations when there is a school in their neighborhood because it means that those children are on the school bus rather than with their families or involved in other activities. A better solution is to spend money to improve schools that weren't preparing the children to enter college or the workforce.

[R B Garr]

86. This election isn't about bussing. Why is Bernie against

Russian sanctions? What about BS’s votes on immigration?

Where are Bernie’s taxes?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

205. Cue the crickets... chirp chirp

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[NurseJackie]

41. He's had many years to get them together. If they were complete enough for the IRS...

He's had many years to get them together. If they were complete enough for the IRS then they are complete enough to present (IN FULL) to the American voters.

It's disrespectful to voters to withhold them. It's an insult to keep telling voters "soon" and "they're not ready". (We're NOT dumb.)

[Kahuna7]

93. There's been a "mechanical" issue...

The only thing in my home that would keep me from producing my taxes is my printer. And I can always get a new one.

[Mr Tibbs]

147. He has committed to releasing ten years worth

So it's really a non issue.

[R B Garr]

148. He has promised them for years and has not delivered.

It is an issue.

[Mr Tibbs]

155. He promised them on February 25th 2019

[R B Garr]

158. He has promised them for years. This is not fooling

anyone. States have since restructured access to the ballots based on receipt of tax reforms.

No one is going to believe your revisionist history here. We’ve been watching since 2015.

[Mr Tibbs]

162. He promise to release ten years worth on February 25th 2019

"Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) announced Monday that he plans to release 10 years’ worth of his tax returns, following the example of fellow 2020 presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.)."

He did not promise to release ten years worth of tax returns in 2016.

[R B Garr]

163. He has been promising tax returns for years. We've been

watching this charade for years. No sense pretending only 2019 matters when we’ve been watching his dodges for years.

[Mr Tibbs]

165. Except he hasn't been promising them for years

He released one in 2016, but didn't release any more because he lost

When an election ends, the candidates stop campaigning. Even if followers of the winning candidate demand they keep doing so

It's a non-issue

[R B Garr]

166. He has been promising them for years. This has been

going on for years. Your attempts to rewrite history are in line with other disinformation from his campaign. You don’t get to tell people they haven’t seen his dodges for years.

If anything, your misinformation campaign is worse. Look up what he told Jake Tapper about his wife handling the taxes—from 2016. It was a chronic issue/dodge by then.

[Mr Tibbs]

167. Show where he promised to release them after the 2016 primaries ended

...up til February 25th 2019.

The internet never forgets, so Im sure you can post the videos where he said this (for years) after the 2016 election ended.

Thanks!

[R B Garr]

169. You should go back starting 2015 and show it yourself.

I have to laugh at these transparent tactics to rewrite history.

Show every single show from 2015 where he was asked about his taxes and what he said about his wife fetching them.

THANKS!

[Mr Tibbs]

171. Show where he promised to keep releasing tax returns after he lost the 2016 primary

He didn't keep promising to release them "For years" after the election ended. You made that part up.

[R B Garr]

172. Show every single show he was on since 2015 where

he was asked about his taxes. Show what he said about his wife fetching their taxes.

Oh, and welcome to DU!!

[Mr Tibbs]

173. You're ducking the question

Have a nice day!

[R B Garr]

175. The "question" was a PHONY rewrite of history.

This isn’t the first time you have tried this tactic to pretend we have not watched him avoid releasing his taxes for YEARS now. YEARS.

Welcome back

[Mr Tibbs]

176. The question is "Show where he kept promising to release them for years"

Show where he "Avoided releasing them" after the election ended. Thanks in advance.

Either you can, or cannot, prove your assertion.

[R B Garr]

178. You are trying to rewrite history with phony dodges.

Go back and post every show where he was asked about his taxes. Post what he said about his wife fetching their taxes.

You are even rewriting what had been posted here. Your phony tactics are very transparent.

[R B Garr]

174. He has never released them, so obviously it's not made up.

Show every show he was on where he was asked about his taxes.

[Mr Tibbs]

179. He has released no tax returns?

Why is he held to this bizarre standard that no other politician is held to? Serious question...

[R B Garr]

180. This is yet another phony dodge on your part.

Seriously. You should quit with this uninformed tactic and wasting people’s time.

[Mr Tibbs]

181. Dodge what?

Your strawman conspiracy theory?

Have a nice day

[R B Garr]

182. Sanders on tape since 2015 is not a conspiracy. He's on tape. But look

at yet another phony dodge by you, many since early this month (welcome back).

You should quit wasting peoples time since your revisionist history on this subject matter is a big fail.

[Mr Tibbs]

185. Your fixation on 2015 proves my point

[R B Garr]

187. You have no point, I'm sorry to say, but your whole

approach is just a phony dodge. It’s a waste of time to indulge your newest dodge about 2015.

Sanders is on tape and it’s been going on for years.

[Mr Tibbs]

188. 2015 to 2016 isn't years and years

[R B Garr]

190. LOL, now you are wasting time trying to rewrite what

“Years” mean.

[mcar]

199. It's now March 20

Where are they? I can download 7 years of returns from Turbo Tax in 5 minutes.

[TexasTowelie]

35. Are you going to confront every poster on DU that won't vote for Bernie with a digression?

You're going to have a busy primary if that's the case and you aren't going to convince anyone to vote for your candidate.

So little time, so much smearing to do.

[Uncle Joe]

36. I'm referring to Joe's record which is in the OP, that's not smearing.

Why was he against school desegregation?

[LongtimeAZDem]

78. Saying that opposing forced busing is being "against school desegregation" is like saying that

opposing the death penalty is being "soft on crime".

Shame on you.

[R B Garr]

99. Yes, that's what these threads appear to be about--distractions

and keeping them kicked. The other day UJ posted a 30-minute clip of Carter with BS that was totally unrelated to his thread and a huge digression.

I can’t see the thread authors on my phone, so this a mistake....

[Mr Tibbs]

115. If Sanders is the nominee, he can count on your vote yes?

Cuz you wouldn't want to hand the election to Trump and all. Personally I will vote for whomever is the nominee.

[George II]

117. Interesting that three of Sanders' top three staffers ALL....

....voted for a candidate other than the Democrat. One would think if he's running for the Democratic nomination he'd have better choices for top advisers, don't you think?

[Mr Tibbs]

120. It's called the "Big Tent"

That's how you go after the 44% of the electorate that vote "independent."

[George II]

121. 44% of the electorate does not vote "independent".

[Mr Tibbs]

122. 42% - my bad

https://news.gallup.com/poll/225056/americans-identification-independents-back-2017.aspx

[George II]

123. Still wrong, 42% of the electorate do not vote "independent".

[Mr Tibbs]

124. 42% of the electorate are independent voters

Meaning they aren't loyal to any established political parties, though they may lean towards one or the other.

[George II]

125. That's completely different.

[Mr Tibbs]

127. No

It's the point I am making. Not your interpretation of it.

[George II]

132. It's not an interpretation. This is what you said:

"That's how you go after the 44% of the electorate that vote "independent." "

So let's see, in the last Presidential election Hillary Clinton got about 66 million votes, trump got about 63 million votes. If what you said were true, then 93 million people voted independent.

It's simple math.

[Mr Tibbs]

135. Your bizarre interpretation of what I said aside...

I suspect an agenda. Have a nice day.

[revmclaren]

138. Your agenda is blaringly obvious.

Mr Tibbs
135. Your bizarre interpretation of what I said aside...
I suspect an agenda. Have a nice day.



We.see.you!

Will ignore your response.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[TexasTowelie]

229. "I suspect an agenda."

An interesting accusation from a poster that registered about two weeks ago and has made 86% of his posts in the Democratic Primaries forum. Hmmm, speaking of agendas.

[revmclaren]

130. I think a better question would be

if/when Bernie Sanders (I-VT) doesn't become the Democratic nominee, will his new staff members who voted for Jill Stein in the last election vote for the Democrat this time. Will they? Will you demand they do?

Everyone here will vote for the Democratic candidate. Everyone except perhaps those that ran off to JPR or 'vanished' after the primaries last time and basically bragged they wouldn't vote for Clinton or kept up the anti-Clinton and anti-Democrat rhetoric.

Stop badgering others here about voting when we don't even know (because you are an anonymous poster on an anonymous board) that you will vote for a candidate other than Bernie Sanders (I-VT). It's getting really old.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Mr Tibbs]

133. So that's a yes

Thank you.

[revmclaren]

136. So that's a yes from you

about holding Sanders staffs feet to the fire about voting for whoever the Democratic nominee is? That you will post here on DU that they should vote for whoever wins the nomination and tweet them the same since it's SO important for DUers to be answerable to you about this?

Thanks in advance for agreeing to this.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Mr Tibbs]

146. I can only control my own vote

Which will be for the nominee.

I have no control over candidates staff members. I would hope they vote for the nominee.

[revmclaren]

150. Strange that you are trying to control votes here

since you also can only control your own vote here as well. You can only HOPE DUers vote the way you want them to.

Just a friendly reminder.

Unless of course you want an excuse to alert on anyone who gives you an answer you think, in your opinion, goes against the T.O.S.

You have a wonderful day.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Mr Tibbs]

152. So asking forum members if they will be voting for the Democratic nominee

Is an attempt to "control" who people vote for?

On what planet?

[revmclaren]

164. ...

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[TexasTowelie]

200. I intend to vote for Democratic nominee at this point.

Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2019, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)

However, I expect that it won't be Bernie. I won't campaign for him or donate any money to him though.

[TwilightZone]

59. He wasn't.

You keep repeating this false assertion, but repetition doesn't make it any more true.

[LongtimeAZDem]

77. He wasn't; he opposed an ill-conceived forced busing plan that tore a city apart and left scars

on those subjected to it.

[WeekiWater]

15. It's really sad that his economic policies haven't evolved from...

his severely flawed "lift all boats" approach.

He simply doesn't listen. Not evolving is what happens when people aren't willing to change. It's not an admirable trait.

He needs an evolution, not a revolution.

[OhZone]

21. So much this! nt

[Thekaspervote]

33. Exactly!

[still_one]

16. If so, his nydailynews interview from 2016 does not demonstrate he can acheive much

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

[Cha]

22. Snap! Like it's a positive

trait not to evolve.

[still_one]

51. Very true. Evolving means growing and learning

[Mr Tibbs]

194. Democratic candidates are adopting his positions

The party is evolving into Sanders positions. Not the other way around.

[still_one]

201. LOL.

[lapucelle]

213. Not on guns and Rusian sanctions. N/T

[sheshe2]

214. Positions Democrats have had forever?

The United States National Health Care Act, or the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act (H.R. 676), is a bill, first introduced in the United States House of Representatives in 2003 with 25 cosponsors by former Representative John Conyers (D-MI). The bill had 49 cosponsors in 2015.
United States National Health Care Act - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Health_Care_Act


The United States National Health Care Act, or the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act (H.R. 676), is a bill, first introduced in the United States House of Representatives in 2003 with 25 cosponsors by former Representative John Conyers (D-MI).[1] The bill had 49 cosponsors in 2015. As of October 1, 2017, it had 120 cosponsors,[2] which amounts to a majority of the Democratic caucus in the House of Representatives and is the highest level of support the bill has ever received since Conyers began annually introducing the bill in 2003.[3] The act would establish a universal single-payer health care system in the United States, the rough equivalent of Canada's Medicare and Taiwan's Bureau of National Health Insurance, among other examples. Under a single-payer system, most medical care would be paid for by the federal government, ending the need for private health insurance and premiums, and probably recasting private insurance companies as providing purely supplemental coverage, to be used when non-essential care is sought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Health_Care_Act

When exactly did BS first propose his bill?

Oh wait. Here in 2017. From my link.

On 13 September 2017, Senator Bernie Sanders introduced a parallel bill in the United States Senate with 16 cosponsors.[11][12][13] The act would establish a universal single-payer health care system in the United States.[4][/div

Conyers first introduced it in 2003. Sanders 2017.

[Mr Tibbs]

221. So you admit his policies are mainstream Democratic

And not "Radical socialism"?

Awesome!!

[sheshe2]

224. So you admit that none of these were his original ideas.

Mr Tibbs (273 posts)

194. Democratic candidates are adopting his positions

The party is evolving into Sanders positions. Not the other way around.

Mr Tibbs, you state that the party is evolving into Sanders positions when in fact they came 14 years after Conyers. So, fact is, BS did evolve and embraced 14 years later something a Democrat introduced in 2003 and reintroduced every year there after. Seems to me it took him a very long time.

[R B Garr]

92. Yikes, that interview really showed how superficial

his stump speech is. He cannot flesh it out when pressed.

[Mr Tibbs]

183. His stump speech is awesome!

It's the reason everyone knows where Sanders stands on the issues

[R B Garr]

184. His stump speech is yesterday's news. He lost in liberal

California in 2016, and his groups lost here in 2018. His repetitive stump speech couldn’t save him here.

[Mr Tibbs]

186. Actually it's future news. We're going into a new election

[R B Garr]

189. His stump speech is repetitive since 2015. People are

losing interest as the election results showed.

[OhZone]

20. Reading the headline of this post -

I thought it was an anti-Bernie post.

Evolution is good. I know weakening your principles aint, but sometime evolution means picking up better principles.

[George II]

25. He hasn't? Does that mean that the things he said a number of years ago still apply?

[samplegirl]

26. I'd like to see

A Biden Warren ticket!

[Autumn]

34. He's always been where he's at,on the side of right. You will never hear Bernie saying raise the

retirement age for Social security, or Pete Buttigieige for that matter.

[Uncle Joe]

39. I totally agree Autumn, Bernie would expand and strengthen social security and

not tear down the workers.

[Autumn]

42. Exactly so Uncle Joe. If you believe in the right thing, if it's a core principle you don't need to

evolve.

[ehrnst]

55. Congress would be the one to do that.

POTUS is in the position of approving it once the legislative branch has done it. If one has a kick-ass speaker like Pelosi, it's more possible for a POTUS to accomplish that.

POTUS is ideally someone with a track record of working well with others on Capitol Hill, which is usually shown by the support of ones peers in the Senate and/or House, in the case of a candidate with decades on the Hill.

[Uncle Joe]

60. Potus has great influence particularly if said Potus ran on the issue.

Bernie will do just fine in working with the Congress should he be so fortunate as to win the primaries and G.E.

Senate passes resolution to end US role in Yemen war

(snip)

“This war is both a humanitarian and a strategic disaster, and Congress has the opportunity to end it,” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), one of the bill’s sponsors and a 2020 presidential candidate, said in a Tuesday statement. According to humanitarian agencies, at least 85,000 children have starved to death in Yemen since the war began and around 14 million are at risk of famine.

The bill, co-sponsored by Sanders along with Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Chris Murphy (D-CT), invokes the War Powers Resolution of 1973, which states that if US troops are involved in “hostilities” abroad “without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution.”

(snip)


https://www.vox.com/2019/3/13/18263894/yemen-war-senate-sanders-murphy-lee

[ehrnst]

61. Again, the support of one's peers is a hallmark of one's ability to work with them as POTUS.

Co-sponsoring a bill with a peer is one thing, having the endorsement of one's peers for a POTUS run is quite another thing.

As we have seen.

[Uncle Joe]

67. I agree for the most part but if you're trying to bring about dramatic change

to a system, then getting endorsements from existing office holders can be more of a challenge particularly in the early days.

Democratic 2020 presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders on Tuesday picked up his first Senate endorsement hours after announcing his second White House bid.

Sen. Patrick Leahy, the Democrat who represents Vermont in the Senate with Sanders, told local media he would support Sanders. Leahy backed Hillary Clinton when Sanders was running against her for the Democratic nomination in 2016 and suffered a backlash for failing to support his fellow senator.

“We have a strong field of candidates, and Bernie’s entry makes the field even stronger,” Leahy told the Seven Days newspaper. “Bernie and I had a great talk today. I’m proud to support my fellow Vermonter, a proven leader with a strong message.”

(snip

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bernie-sanders-scores-early-endorsement-from-senate-colleagues

[TexasTowelie]

43. "He's always been where he's at,on the side of right."

I guess that is why Sen. Sanders (I-Vt.) tries so hard to appease the right for their votes too?

As far as the video that was posted about Beto and Social Security, Beto said that Congress will eventually have to consider raising taxes or lifting the retirement age to keep Social Security solvent. That is acknowledgment that some type of action by Congress will be necessary which 's a heck of a lot different than saying that he supports those proposals or that he doesn't support eliminating the cap. By the way, eliminating the cap on Social Security also raises taxes.

[Uncle Joe]

47. Beto only mentions "some type of action" as being raising social security taxes on workers

in "future generations" or retiring at a later age.

What Beto never mentions as a possibility is actually eliminating or even raising the cap on social security whereas the wealthiest Americans would continue to pay into the fund.

?t=113

[TexasTowelie]

50. So you can't keep on topic

and resort to another smear against Beto. The fear that Beto's candidacy is already off to a terrific start is apparent.

[Uncle Joe]

56. I just posted the video that you referred to, that's not on topic?

I also mentioned that Beto never said raise the cap but he did say raise taxes on "future generations" and raise the retirement age as possibilities, those are the facts.

This should give some clue to the open minded as to Beto's priorities in addressing social security, average workers would pay more and work longer, but the affluent aspect was never mentioned.

[Autumn]

81. Bernie talks about issues that benefit people. If that appeals to the right I don't

see the problem. Everybody right and left, benefits with health care, higher wages and more taxed on the wealthy and less war. I never complained when Republicans voted for Obama and I'm not going to complain if they support any of our candidates this time.

YMMV

[TexasTowelie]

85. Some Republicans decided to vote for Obama over McCain in 2008

because McCain admitted that he knew nothing about economics a few weeks before the election. Obama didn't make a case that he was a better candidate than Clinton because he would get GOP votes while we heard Bernie's supporters make that argument because he was an independent. Clinton also didn't say that President Obama should be primaried in 2012 like Bernie did.

Bernie is a Democrat only when it is convenient for him.

[George II]

82. Hmmm, he voted for the 1994 Crime Bill, and now he's against it. What's up with that?

[Autumn]

84. Hmmm, Bill Clinton was for it and now he's against it. What's up with that?

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/politics/bill-clinton-1994-crime-bill/index.html

[George II]

90. Hah, Clinton whataboutism. Pssst....Bill Clinton isn't running for President in 2020.....

.....and this discussion is about how SANDERS hasn't evolved, no one else:

"Unlike Some People, Bernie Hasn't "Evolved" "

Plus, I brought it up because you said yourself "He's always been where he's at". Apparently that's not true.

[Autumn]

96. You're the one who brought up the crime bill not me. It was wrong then and it's wrong

now, Bernie and Clinton verified it. They both admitted they made a mistake. Bye, have a nice day.
I commented on this from the OP and it's true Bernie has not had to evolve on this.

In the Democratic Party presidential primary race, that history sets Bernie apart.

When Bernie was in his thirties, he was attempting to build an independent political party whose purpose, he said, was “to create a situation in which the ordinary working people take what rightfully belongs to them.”

(snip)

In contrast to young Biden, young Bernie was an activist fighting against racial discrimination in education.

(snip)

If we’re serious about taking on the formidable power of the ruling elite and building a society based on equality and democracy, we should look at the candidates’ lifelong records and ask, which of them truly shares those priorities.

[George II]

97. Yes, I brought up the Crime Bill, which Sanders voted for, I never mentioned Bill Clinton...

...you did. Why?

When Bill Clinton throws his hat into the ring and announces his candidacy, then his name belongs in this discussion. Until then I have no idea why he's being mentioned here.

[thucythucy]

140. "It was wrong then...They both admitted they made a mistake..."

So then you disagree with the OP? It seems Bernie HAS "evolved."

Good to know.

[Autumn]

145. I agree completely with the OP that Bernie hasn't evolved.

You should read it. It points out that Bernie has fought corporate domination and the exploitation of working people his entire life. He has had no need to evolve his message. That's what's good to know.

[thucythucy]

151. And yet he voted for a "crime bill" that benefited for-profit-prisons

and came down disproportionately hard on people of color.

I would hope his views on this topic have evolved.

Since when is evolution a bad thing? Lots of Democrats either opposed marriage equality, or took no position on it, ten to twenty years ago. Today most of those have evolved. This is bad?

[Autumn]

177. I don't comment on articles unless I read them, I read the article and I agreed with

the author of the article when he highlighted the things Bernie has always believed in and consistently pushed as part of his ideology since he was young man. Those messages he has never
evolved on. His message has been consistent. There was no need for him to evolve on his message , it has always been a part of him and his values. No one said evolution a bad thing. There probably are things he may have evolved on. Everyone has. But those are not the ones in the article that I and the original poster, who also read the article, were agreeing.

Yes, he voted for the crime bill. And he admits it was a mistake and like Bill Clinton, said years later that bill did things that were not anticipated. It was a mistake and they admitted they were wrong to support it . IMO Evolving is if you don't believe in something, if you are against it and over the years your views and values change and you come to support it. I doubt there is a politician alive who hasn't cast a vote for or against some bill that later in life they regretted.

None of the issues that you are talking about are in the article. You should start an OP on those issues for people are who interested in talking about his stand on those, and whether they are right or wrong.

[thucythucy]

242. Then the title of the OP should be changed,

since Bernie clearly has "evolved" when it comes to criminal justice reform.

I don't understand this need for absolutes. So Bernie's stand against corporations hasn't evolved, except perhaps in relation to the major gun manufacturers. Good for him.

But it has "evolved" in terms of criminal justice reform--he was in favor of the most sweeping federal legislation relating to sentencing in decades. It was a big deal--impacting the lives of millions of people--disproportionately people of color.

"None of the issues that you are talking about are in the article." And that's the problem. The article skirts some very important issues. To say, therefore, that "Bernie hasn't evolved" (and to imply a put down of other politicians who have) is just plain disingenuous.

[mcar]

206. Whataboutism

[lunamagica]

142. No, he hasn't. Not on immigration, not on gun control, not on the Amber Alert

[SidDithers]

45. Jacobin...

Sid

[peggysue2]

49. Saying Someone Hasn't Evolved Is Not a Positive

Because we all evolve unless we're stuck in a rut, in this case an ideological rut.

This argument is a -99%. Ossification is not a good thing.

[Cha]

54. Rec this post!

[ehrnst]

58. The basic tenet of evolution - survival of the fittest, is often misunderstood

Darwin explained that by 'fittest" he mean the most adaptable, not the biggest, strongest or most rigid.

Same holds true in politics. If one never admits that one has anything to learn, then one never does learn.

Certainly true of Jacobin magazine. They must be over the moon at the news of Sirota and Gray working on the campaign.

One reason that Trump supporters love him is that he never evolved, and they see that as strength.

[Renew Deal]

62. That's true. He has old solutions to new problems.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

65. No matter where someone starts, I want to see evolution and growth.

Haven't seen it with him.

[WeekiWater]

75. Unlike some people, Trump hasn't evolved. NT

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

76. That's unfortunate. Evolution in politics tends to be a good thing.

[highplainsdem]

216. +1,000,000

[TwilightZone]

79. Being a progressive is about, well, progress.

This is a bizarre assertion. I would certainly hope that Bernie has evolved in the past few decades. Progress is what being a progressive is all about.

[Gothmog]

83. No one took sanders seriously in 2016 and so sanders was not vetted

No one took sanders seriously and so he was not vetted. Vetting is important I amso glad that sanders is being vetted this cycle https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/28/why-bernie-sanders-has-an-uphill-climb-ahead/?utm_term=.1b4f90c2a717

Finally, what happens when the oppo dump on Sanders comes? We have no idea, because it never happened in 2016. Clinton was so terrified of alienating his supporters and seeing them vote for Jill Stein in the general election (or not vote at all) that she tiptoed around him for pretty much the entirety of the primary campaign. That doesn’t mean that he’ll be destroyed when stories about the more colorful aspects of his history start cropping up, but there’s just no way to know.

Which is what we could say about the Sanders candidacy as a whole: There’s no way to know how it’s going to go. But he’s got his work cut out for him.

See also https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign-donald-trump/index.html?utm_source=twCNNp&utm_content=2019-02-20T14%3A52%3A07&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social%C2%A0

2. How will he withstand more scrutiny and more attacks?
One of the secrets to Sanders' success in 2016 was that no one -- most especially Clinton -- thought he had any chance of going anywhere in the race. Clinton largely ignored him for the better part of 2015, allowing some problematic parts of Sanders' record for Democrats -- most notably his voting record on guns -- to go unnoticed. (When the race began to tighten, Clinton gently prodded Sanders on guns and health care.) Sanders, too, largely flew under the radar of investigative reporters for major news outlets who were busy looking into Clinton, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and others seen as more viable candidates. (That reality clearly benefited Donald Trump in the early days of the campaign, as well.)

Sanders will get no pass -- from either the media or his fellow candidates -- this time around. He is among the frontrunners -- and will be treated as such. His wife's time as president of Burlington College could well come up. And his opponents will do a deep dive into his nearly 30 years of votes as a member of the House and Senate. This is all very normal stuff in a campaign. But not for Sanders.

The CNN polling reflects the fact that sanders is being vetted

[BannonsLiver]

95. ...

[Power 2 the People]

98. +1000

[SidDithers]

102. He hasn't evolved on guns either, right?...

Voted against Brady Bill how many times?

Voted to protect gun manufacturers from civil suits?

Continues to use the racist "guns in Vermont are different from guns in Chicago" line?

Sid

[nycbos]

109. A very courageous Republican congressman from Vermont named Peter Smith...

... voted for control. He voted to ban certain assault rifles. Then Mayor Bernie Sanders got elected to congress with the support of the NRA.


The rest as they say is history.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html?utm_term=.32975c0b81da

[PubliusEnigma]

126. or done much of anything, really.

[Amimnoch]

134. Is that a good thing?

I've evolved from my teens to my twenties to my thirties to today in my 40's.

Pretty much everyone I know has evolved. Most often, evolving comes with improvement.

Personally, I like and prefer people who are flexible, evolve, change, grow.

Is there any other candidate running in 2020, in either party, that has made claims of "not evolving" on things?

Only one other comes to my own mind. I'm opposed to that one as well, and would like to see him removed from office.

[lunamagica]

137. So, he is still against immigration reform?

[kennetha]

226. pretty ugly look

that nativist, anti-immigrant thing of Sanders.

I hope his opponents collect all of his past garbage and dump it all over the media for everybody to see.

Hillary Clinton refrained from roughing him up, because she didn't think it was necessary to defeat him and would not have been worth the blow back she would have gotten from the media and the Bernie bros.

Things are different now. No more kid glove treatment for Bernie the self-righteous blowhard who is arrogantly trying to hijack our party.

Let him have it folks!

[lunamagica]

143. So he hasn't evolved on immigration, gun control, and the Amber Alert?

Got it.

[Mr Tibbs]

157. His legislative record says wildly otherwise

He voted for every measure in Obama's gun control package after Sandy Hook.

[revmclaren]

144. So he's still pro guns???

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[samnsara]

153. i think if we go back into any of the candidates back grounds we will find an impressive history..

... of service and activism

[Historic NY]

159. Yup

[link:|]

[roody]

160. The Iraq war vote is all I need to know

to support Sanders over Biden.

[mcar]

195. This Again?

[mia]

202. He strives for the "unreachable star".

I admire him for this, but he hasn't moved on from the utopian dreams of his youth.
His ideas, as they stand, haven't evolved to address the reality of the present time.

[Uncle Joe]

208. "The Impossible Dream"

We as a nation have went so far down the rabbit hole, I believe the present times are screaming for "Utopian" dreams, aka vision to guide us.

Whether we reach the star or not, I believe it to be incumbent upon us to try for the sake of today and posterity.

[mia]

217. How does he imagine that the U.S. government can and will finance his "impossible dream"

when he can and won't reveal the status of his income taxes?

[zaj]

204. You just implied...

That the entire slate of Democratic candidates all "evolved" on the issue of "racial discrimination".

That's surely not your point, but the title and bolding are telling me that's your point. And obviously that's ridiculous.

So, what is your point?

[lapucelle]

218. If BS hasn't evolved, that would mean that he's still the same guy who wrote that essay.

[Cha]

236. Not a ringing endorsement. Wonder

if BS has anything to say about that?

[betsuni]

219. True. Apparently he hasn't changed at all.

Barney Frank on Bernie after he was elected to the Senate: "Bernie alienates his natural allies. He is completely ineffective as a lobbyist because he offends just about everyone. His holier-than-thou attitude -- saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else -- really undercuts his effectiveness. To him, everybody who disagrees with him is a crook; there are no honest disagreements with people. Bernie's view of the world is that the great majority of the people agree with him on all the issues and the only reason he does not win is that the Congress is crooked."

[TexasTowelie]

228. That's a rousing endorsement.

[BannonsLiver]

241. I couldn't agree more with Barney. Sums him up nicely.

[UniteFightBack]

231. So how is that 'attempting to build an independent political party' coming along? nt

[WeekiWater]

232. Checking in to see how things go...

When you claim your candidate not evolving since the 50’s is a positive.

About as expected.

[Uncle Joe]

234. Nobody as of yet seems to have noticed that the word "evolved" was in quotation marks because this

has been the ongoing slam against Bernie, he hasn't "evolved" he still believes in Medicare for All, making the minimum wage a livable wage, preaching that our society has become economically dysfunctional with virtually all the wealth going to the 1%, tuition free higher education, etc. etc. etc.

As this video clearly depicts, Bernie has been championing most if not all of those same issues and policies at least since 1985.

He has been incredibly consistent and this is why he is one of if not the most popular political leaders in the nation.

[WeekiWater]

235. There are so many fun opportunities with the op.

Including a little word play.