My scorecard for tonight's debate.

[Jakes Progress]

Points given for maturity and gravitas.

Big subtraction for two things.

Minus 20 for attacking Biden based on trump's accusations.

Minus 20 for using republican talking points - particularly anyone who uses the phrase "take away the insurance of working Americans."

That phrase is used to attack the Medicare for All candidates. It is a lie and any Democrat who uses this republican lie does not really have the country's best intererest at heart. If you don't want M4A then argue the merits, but don't say we can't afford it. It is easily the cheapest way to achieve universal health care. If you argue against it, then be honest and say that you either want to spend more or that you don't really want universal health care.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Sherrod Brown just came out against M4A.

Of course, he's not a candidate for the Presidency now.

I wouldn't hold his statement against him--would you?

[Jakes Progress]

2. You can be against M4A.

Just don't lie with republican talking points.

Nothing in M4A will cause working people do lose insurance. They will have Medicare. I was on employer paid insurance with five different jobs over thirty years. Now I am on Medicare, and it is far superior in coverage and cost to me than any other I have had. I understand that politicians and network pundits have golden insurance, but I don't like that my taxes give them that privilege. Literally everyone I know on Medicare prefers it to anything they used to have.

You cannot have universal health care any cheaper. If a candidate wants to campaign on something like Medicare choice, that is fine. But they need to be honest about the fact that it will cost billions more than M4A.

[wasupaloopa]

4. Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is about losing employer provided health insurance that many people like and

want to keep.

M4A is about forcing everyone into a government insurance plan. Don't lie like trump does to get your way!


And another lie about costs! Nobody knows what M4A really looks like so nobody knows the cost! It is all pie in the sky at this point. A bipartisan Congress will decide what M4A is not Warren nor Bernie.

Using words against fact is a ruse Warren and Bernie engage in.


Along with plans that have no costs described or how they get done.


Why Warren and Bernie people do not ask for specifics is beyond my comprehension. It is the same tactic that trump uses on his base.

You will vote for anything that sounds good with out question.

Harris and Biden will not do that even though they may not be front runners for it. I cannot back Warren nor Bernie because they are not truthful.

[JonLP24]

6. Biden backed credit card companies while Warren backed working families when it came to bankruptcy

reform.

He gives details all the time and people lose their job, lose their insurance, I don't know some working people want M4A.

[wasupaloopa]

7. "Some" is the acting word here. Most do not.

Americans do not want to be forced into a health care plan. They would rather have choice. A public option gives them choice.

M4A does not. It is a losing idea that helps trump.

[JonLP24]

8. A public option still leaves many uninsured or bankrupt

That is why the mandate was a bad idea is because people don't want to be forced but I believe M4A is a very basic idea. Polls show support progressive policies more than conservative ones.

[wasupaloopa]

10. Anything can be fixed! M4A is just words!

Stop using pie in the sky vs reality!

[JonLP24]

15. The reality is other countries do this successfully

but we can't because we are too conservative or private corporations have too much control over our politics.

Great statement by Tom Steyer in the debate.

[Jakes Progress]

18. Anything can be fixed. But not if you

refuse to acknowledge math and reality.

Using rightwing rhetoric doesn't help you position.

[Thekaspervote]

51. the CBO study is out. Cost for mfa 32 trillion over 10 yrs.

This is not RW rhetoric it’s math and reality to use your words.

[Jakes Progress]

57. They did not say how much

it would cost for universal coverage with a plan that let everybody have every thing they want plan - the plan that the "moderates" put forward.

It is the height of intellectual dishonesty to say that it will cost less to cover everyone if you add CEO salaries, corporate profit, lobbying expenses, and administrative costs to the cost for medical care.

Be honest. How will Medicare for All costs more than providing coverage for all citizens when it covers the same medical costs without the above expenses?

Tell me again how 2 plus 2 plus 2 is going to equal 2. Are you being purposefully deceptive or do you really not get it? Stop listening to the drivel put out to media by the insurance lobby and do the math.

[Jakes Progress]

16. How much should I have to pay

for you to have the choice to make insurance CEO's more wealthy?

[Demsrule86]

24. Warren was a Republican until what her forties? Please they all have baggage...and Joe hails

from Delaware where credit card companies are headquartered...I notice that Warren voted to repeal the medical device tax because the medical device industry is headquartered in Massachusetts...you vote for your business that provide jobs in your state...

"What Warren didn’t say was that her bill has a loophole in it for medical device manufacturers. Those companies, which make everything from latex gloves to Magnetic Resonance Imaging machines, would be exempt from her proposed penalties unless they also make drugs. At the same time, her bill explicitly ensures that the so-called “medtech” companies would benefit from the research dollars that her “swear jar” would generate..."Since she launched her campaign for the Senate in 2011, Warren has come out in favor several medical device industry priorities, including rewriting Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulations, bolstering federal research funding and making permanent certain temporary tax credits for research and development."

https://time.com/3695581/elizabeth-warren-medical-device-lobbyists-obamacare/

[Jakes Progress]

9. Wrong. That is a simple minded response.

Do you really think you get that employer "provide" insurance for free? How naive.

Costs. How do you cover everyone for less than Medicare. Those that say they can are the ones who are not truthful. The Affordable Care Act costs more than it was planned because the republicans gutted the part that required everyone to be covered. When you only have the poorest and most ill covered, you pay more. Do you not believe in universal health care? If so, be honest and tell us how you will pay for it.

What does "words against fact" mean? What fact? If you claim that paying profits for insurance companies, paying for redundant and extensive paperwork, and avoiding bargaining with drub companies will lower costs, you are not being factual.

It is ignoring reality and pretending that corporations have out best interests at heart it the tactics that trump uses. Why would someone who claims to be a Democrat do that?

You do not know what I will vote for. I will vote for the program that does the most good for the most people. If I were to indulge in your tactics, I would say that you will vote for anything that lets you keep your privileged status regardless of what hardships it imposes on others. (Of course you don't think you are paying for your employer insurance, so it is easy to see how you would think your status would be better if you got to keep paying to the insurance industry.)

Here's the sad thing. Biden and the others like Harris and Buttigieg are smart. They know that the cost to citizens will go down on M4A. They know that the cost for people like you that pay for their employer supplied plans along with the cost for those who will choose Medicare is more than if everyone were covered by Medicare. It is mathematical simplicity. Health coverage minus the insurance industry obscene profits and minus the paperwork will cost less. It's just a matter of whether you believe everyone deserves health care in our country.

Do you?

[wasupaloopa]

13. Only one answer needed. NO BODY KNOWS WHAT M4A IS OR WILL BE!

Everything you say is null and void

[Jakes Progress]

17. Only one answer, that you did not give.

Do you believe in universal health care?

Do you work for the insurance industry?

[wasupaloopa]

19. Yes , No.

You have a list of what you do not like. That is naive as hell.

I was a controller of a medical clinic in Ridgecrest CA. We had a surgery center, an urgent care unit, OBGYN, family practice, X-ray, pediatrics, lab and a few more depts. We had 21 doctors, twice that number in nurses and other medical staff. We had administration, billing, coding, inventory, purchasing.

You know nothing about what it takes to provide medical care. You want your "free medical care for all." It will never be.

You think you will vote for M4A and everyone I mentioned above will just fall in line. It doesn't work that way.

[Jakes Progress]

21. So many area of misinformation and uninformed thinking.

What list? Now you are doing the trump think of accusing me of what you are guilty of. I'm not naive. I am very informed on this subject. You have no idea what my background is. While you worked at making money from the insurance industry, I worked at helping people avoid the lies and cruelty of that industry.

If you worked in the industry, you should be aware of the amount of administration it took to provide insurance CEOs with their lavish lifestyle. You listed administration, billing, coding. That's just the start. Its is the rebelling, collection, recoding, claims refusals, and most important - justifying why someone should lose their insurance - that would be eliminated under Medicare for all.

I obviously know more about what is involved in medial care and how it gets paid for than you do. No one said Medicare would be free. If you work in the field, you should be honest and say that people on Medicare pay for that insurance. Stop using right wing tactics. It is not "free medical care for all". It is Medicare insurance for all.

But you know that. It is easy to see why this topic touches your hot button, since you make you living supporting the insurance industry.

[Demsrule86]

25. MFA will never happen...those with insurance from their jobs will rise up and strike it and us down,

and there would be way to many jobs lost...it will never happen...a public option with the ACA will lead to universal coverage I hope...if we don't screw it up by trying to reinvent the wheel...we have the ACA build on it.

[Jakes Progress]

38. Then just be honest about it.

It will cost a lot more, and it won't cover everyone. The lucky and privileged will benefit from the higher cost.

Does your employer pay !00% of your insurance? Mine never did. I worked for many years with employer assisted insurance. I paid premiums and my employer paid premiums. A never got as good an insurance program as I have now under Medicare. I know several people who delayed medical needs until they turned 65 because their employer insurance would not cover their expenses.

As I said, if you are part of the lucky and privileged, you may not understand that most people pay for their insurance by premium, lower wages, and poor coverage.

[Demsrule86]

45. That is not true...and if you have the public option for those who's states didn't expand

coverage and tweak the subsidies, it will cover everyone...why wouldn't it? I am a realist and know what is possible and what is not.

[Jakes Progress]

46. That is not true

Show me how to add corporate profit, mounds of administrative record keeping, billing, court costs, and lobbying expenses to what is already spent on medical care and come up with less than what is already spent on medical care.

What form of reality adds 2 and 2 and gets 2?

The public option was gutted when the court said you can't require people to have coverage. That adds another level of expense to the 2 plus 2 -- covering only the sickest and running emergency room care at county hospitals for those not covered.

I'lll be glad to run a option or choice system. Just be honest about he fact that it will cost millions more. You can't ignore facts and reality. We pay several times what other industrialized countries with single payer do for our health care. Just why do you think that is so?

[Demsrule86]

47. Obama limited the money corporations could make...had to spend 90% on health care. We will never

pass single payer...and if we try to run on it we lose 2020. The ACA with a public option is doable...and won't cause us to lose the election.

[Jakes Progress]

49. I prefer that everyone have access to medical care

in the United States.

If that is not a goal for you, then your premise is perfectly valid.

The ACA has not limited corporate profits. And even if that had been successful, do you have any idea how much 10% of America's medical spending is?

[Thekaspervote]

53. This!!

[Jakes Progress]

61. Addition isn't difficult.

You should try it.

[emmaverybo]

56. Universal healthcare simply means everyone is covered. It is not one and the same with M4All, one

of the options by which all Americans could be covered. Universal healthcare need not disallow private insurance. In England, for instance, many carry employer-provided insurance,

If, a big if, M4All were to be implemented, its roll out is going to take some years. What do we do in the meantime?

Single-payer administrated by the federal government is also not the only way to provide healthcare for all.

[Jakes Progress]

59. Not the same. Just the least expensive.

[Thekaspervote]

52. Mathematical simplicity to the tune of 32 trillion says the CBO

No wonder she won’t answer

[Jakes Progress]

58. Why do you spout the insurance lobby line?

How much did the CBO say it would cost for universal coverage under any plan other than Medicare for All.

Will Biden be honest and tell us how much it will cost to use his plan? Will he admit that his plan leaves hundreds of thousands without coverage?

Will any of those who want Medicare by choice put forward the cost of their plans?

Are you going to fall for numbers that do not include the employer costs because you think they do that out of their own pocket? It is your money they spend to pay their share of the premiums for your "work" insurance.

This isn't hard. All it takes is an honest look at things without just falling in with the plan your favorite candidate espouses. I was one of those who doubted Warren's plan too. I listened to the media pundits who gasped at how much it would cost. (They want to continue to have you subsidize their golden insurance plans.) Then I began reading and adding the costs myself. It wasn't hard. You should try.

[wasupaloopa]

3. Sorry, "take away the insurance of working Americans." is not a republican talking point. Bernie

wants to do that. He said so over and over. And that workers would get the money back as salary

[PhoenixDem]

11. +1000 nt

[Jakes Progress]

14. So sad that you don't understand.

What will be "taken away" from you? Do you have one of those corporate CEO golden insurance plans? Just what do you think you will lose when you begin to qualify for Medicare insurance?

[Jakes Progress]

12. So uninformed.

Just how will providing Medicare for all take away insurance? What do you think Medicare is? I pay much less for my Medicare insurance than my employer and I did before I turned 65. When I did, my retirement plan actually had the option to remain on the "employer" plan. I couldn't wait to leap into the less expensive and better coverage of Medicare.

Why do you want to support an insurance industry that has gouged and cheated millions of American workers for decades? Do you work for the industry?

[Demsrule86]

26. When pigs fly...the corporations will buy back their stock or whatever.

[Cha]

29. Hell NO it's NOT a "repub talking Point".. that's just

a meme to Shut Down Discussion and it pisses me OFF.

[Jakes Progress]

39. The false meme is "take away insurance".

It is a frequent right wing lie.

[Demsrule86]

48. It is absolutely true...I would lose my work insurance.

[Jakes Progress]

50. Several problems with your concept of insurance.

If your employer changed providers, would you be outraged because they took away your insurance? How would Medicare as your provider be different?

Is money deducted from your salary to pay your premiums? Would you like to have the amount your employer pays for your premiums added to your paycheck instead?

In order for you to keep your "work" insurance, hundreds of thousands of people must do without insurance. Is that a concept that you can easily accept? Do you have CEO insurance with no premiums or deductibles or copays? All the talking heads on the cable channels receive golden insurance plans even though they are millionaires who could afford to foot their insurance. Millionaires and elected congress members don't mind if others suffer as long as they get theirs. I like to think that you aren't like that and just were unaware of that fact.

If you are an ordinary working stiff - like I was for years before my retirement - Medicare will be a vast improvement over the crap insurance that you receive now. My Medicare premiums are lower and give me more choice and coverage and security (it won't be yanked away any year without notice) than I ever had on my previous plans.

[dsc]

62. most of us would not have the money added

I am a school teacher in NC, and have employer provided insurance (my employer claims a cost of about 5300 per employee they are self insured). I can absolutely guarantee you that I wouldn't see a single, solitary cent of that money if M4A passed tomorrow.

[Jakes Progress]

63. That's what unions are for.

I taught for 31 years. I self insured for half of those. My insurance from the district was crap. High premiums, high deductibles, and high copays. When I retired I kept paying my district "supplied" insurance premiums until I was 65. The minute I went on Medicare, my premiums dropped and my coverage was better. I don't have to worry that the district or state will make a deal with some other cheating insurance corporation. They take board members to fancy golf tournaments and on trips, then we get screwed.

I would bet that even if your union couldn't get the money you have coming, you would be better off with Medicare than your current plan. You gotta be crazy to think that the employer who would make sure that you "wouldn't see a single, solitary cent of that money" has your best interests at heart.

Aside from that is the fact that isn't just about you or me. There are hundreds of thousands who are desperately without health care. I could give up just a little of my privilege to achieve universal coverage.

[dsc]

64. We are literally banned from unionizing

[Jakes Progress]

65. Another reason for M4A

It is a better plan than you will ever get from your district or state.

[JonLP24]

5. I give CNN an F and the debate hasn't even started yet

[cannabis_flower]

20. I wish they would stop calling health insurance healthcare...

Health insurance is not healthcare. Healthcare is your doctor, your hospital, your physical therapist, your pharmacy and your medications. You pay for health insurance and health insurance pays for your healthcare, if they feel like it.

With M4A, you might lose your current health insurance but you won't lose your healthcare. You just won't pay so much for it.

[Jakes Progress]

22. Exactly.

I think though that we have some insurance industry people posting.

[cannabis_flower]

31. It isn't just people posting here..

some of the candidates are doing it also. I'm not sure all of the ones that have done it but I know I heard Amy Klobuchar say it.

[Jakes Progress]

40. Some here are uninformed and have fallen

for the right wing and insurance company propaganda. That is understandable since both groups have paid enormously to have those lies put into the mainstream.

But the candidates are smarter than that. I'm very disappointed that they will willingly mislead and take cheap shots to curry votes and extend what they know to be lies.

[Thekaspervote]

54. And you think EW evading answering the question of cost for mfa is not to curry votes?

Oh please!!

She doesn’t want to answer because she knows what the costs are. It’s truly unkind to tell voters, especially those that need more help, that you will pass this big health care bill when the senate is gop, and we all know it won’t pass. It called false hope.... and it’s very hurtful

[Jakes Progress]

60. Can you add?

I mean, add up the cost of universal coverage under Biden's plan.

First you have the cost of medical care. Then add the administrative cost of Medicare (one of the lowest anywhere). That is the cost of Medicare for All.

Now. Take those same medical care costs.
Add the administrative costs for the insurance industry (about quadruple that of Medicare).
Add the costs for profit of the insurance companies.
Add the costs for the salaries of the employees of the insurance companies.
Add the costs for Corporate CEO salaries.
Add the cost for the giant lobbying firms working for the insurance companies.
That is the cost for Biden's plan.

Now who is being dishonest to curry votes?

[mountain grammy]

27. Agree.. maddening.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. Yes, health insurance is anti-healthcare!! MFA is the ONLY way forward!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[dflprincess]

23. What we really need is MediCAID for all

at least in the form it takes in Minnesota. Especially the program for seniors - it covers way more than Medicare does (hearing aids, glasses, etc) though it does need to expand to (at least) basic dental services.

That's really what Bernie has been talking about.

[Celerity]

30. big problem with that is the MEDICAID reimbursement rates will crush rural healthcare

if they are made universal.

It is 78% of current costs.

That is unsustainable in the current paradigm.

If you are suggesting an adjustment to that, then I am all ears.

[phleshdef]

32. I think we should introduce the public option as a new thing and then have a plan that overtime...

...unites Medicare/Medicaid and the public option into one system. I think thats the way we get to this in a way thats realistic.

[Celerity]

33. +10000

agreed

[dflprincess]

35. The problem with a public option while we still have the private crooks in the game

is that the public option is more apt to attract people who need more healthcare & that will doom it to failure as costs outrun the premiums.

The only way a public plan works is if everyone, from the healthiest newborn to the sickest senior citizen is in the same pool.

[phleshdef]

36. Well it could work but there is a kind of a dark truth behind how...

...we would need to put employers in a situation where moving employees to the public option makes them richer and we let them get away with it. That would grow the public option pool really fast.

[hedda_foil]

42. Nobody says that employers won't have to pay a percentage of the new M4A premium.

[phleshdef]

43. I never said that anyone said that. I'm talking about something entirely different.

[Jakes Progress]

41. Fine. If you can afford it.

It would cost way more than M4A and still leave thousands without affordable health care.

But if you can get the people to pay for it, go ahead.

[dflprincess]

37. If we're all in one system

I would expect the pool to be solvent enough that payments could be made at 100%. -- If anyone can figure out what the acutal cost is.

I recently saw my primary for the annual visit. The gross amount billed was $172. given the time I spent with the doctor & the blood tests run I didn't think this seemed unreasonable to me. Yet, my insurance company only paid $67.90. I paid nothing as it was a preventive visit. My insurer is one of the larger ones in the area so who knows what kind of deal it was able to broker & if the clinic I go to may losing money on a visit like this while making it up else where or from people whose insurers don't have as much pull?

[Hoyt]

28. Is it honest to say, "a lot of people -- rightly or wrongly -- don't want it now, and don't want it

crammed down their throats."

I'm fine with it, and think some others might be once they see what it is going to cost me and others directly; what subsidies are available for the less well off; can you really get a plan enacted with no copays, deductibles, dental insurance; etc.; what about people who still don't want it as only choice available, but might give it a try as a choice from several once all details are laid out; etc.

But, "it'll cost less than we pay now in total," ain't cutting it. And, MFA is a loser in General Election and puts us farther away from much needed significant improvements in our health care system.

In 1982, I was for Medicaid-for-All in Georgia. So, I believe it might just work, although not was well as some folks think. Problem is, lots of people won't believe it will be better.

[JCMach1]

34. Bernie has won, Warren, Biden, Yang and Gabbard lost ground

Honorable mention to Klobuchar and Steyer

[corbettkroehler]

44. With You 100%

Your keyboard took the words right out of my keyboard.