NYT: Biden Faced His Biggest Challenge, and Struggled to Form a Response

[DrFunkenstein]

Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s presidential campaign was under attack, and he and his advisers were torn over what to do.

For more than a week, President Trump had been hurling unfounded accusations about Mr. Biden, his son Hunter and their dealings in Ukraine. Mr. Biden and his advisers debated whether to mount a fierce counterattack or to stick to a set of policy arguments he had been planning to roll out. Bad news loomed in the background: Mr. Biden’s poll numbers had already grown wobbly, his fund-raising was uneven, and cable news was flashing chyrons by the hour showing Mr. Trump’s wild claims.

Mr. Biden himself was equivocating: He wanted to defend and protect his son, but he also believed the president was baiting him into a dirty fight. And as a lifelong adherent to congressional tradition, Mr. Biden was wary of acting hastily as an impeachment inquiry was getting underway.

The strain grew so acute that some of Mr. Biden’s advisers lashed out at their own party, taking the unusual step of urging campaign surrogates to criticize the Democratic National Committee — a neutral body in the primary — for not doing more to defend Mr. Biden, while the Republican National Committee was running TV ads attacking him. Frustrated, D.N.C. officials informed the Biden camp that it would continue denouncing Mr. Trump but would not run ads for Mr. Biden or any other candidate.

The Biden campaign’s tense deliberations reached a climax last weekend when Mr. Biden agreed to give a scorching rebuttal to Mr. Trump in a speech on Wednesday in Reno, Nev. But he delivered it well into the evening on the East Coast, and it was mostly lost amid another long day of Trumpian eruptions.

To some Biden allies, it seemed too little too late: a case study in political indecision. Now Mr. Biden looks more vulnerable than at any point since he entered the campaign. Facing one of the greatest challenges of his candidacy, Mr. Biden has plainly struggled to meet the moment, or fully reconcile his own cautious instincts with his protectiveness of his family’s privacy and his preference for taking the moral high road against Mr. Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/us/politics/biden-trump-ukraine.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

For veterans of the Kerry campaign, this sounds painfully familiar. Kerry wanted to defend his honor and counterpunch against the Swift Boaters, but he had the voices of hired-gun advisors like Bob Shrum telling him to stay above the fray. His dithering was all too costly - in fact, it almost certainly cost him the election. Biden seems to have learned nothing from this lesson, and now the moment has passed him by.

[dawg day]

1. Not to make excuses, but this is hard to counter

Trump is so vile and vicious that it's hard to know how to respond. Nothing shuts him up. Nothing shames him.

No one has ever come up with the right tactic because he's so irrationally nasty and nothing matters to him.

[BlueMTexpat]

5. This.

MF45 is central only to himself. He is so irrational that the only thing that one can expect IS the irrrational ... and it is VERY hard for anyone who is rational to deal with that.

[BannonsLiver]

35. Not only that Trump is doing a good job of screwing himself.

Why risk messing that up? Also, the author or the OP seem to miss the point Trump is not W and our country’s political climate is drastically different than 2004.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

76. This

I'm not a Biden supporter but we are all pretty much in the same boat in terms of trying to figure out how to respond to him. Truthfully, there's not much other than hoping that he appears so unhinged and crazy that other people see right through him. Unfortunately, when the media doesn't call him out about his ramblings and/or attempts to normalize him, that makes our jobs that much harder.

[highplainsdem]

2. Eric Boehlert, formerly of Media Matters, on this NYT story and how they're mishandling the

coverage of this smear:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287301144

[spooky3]

58. Agree with Eric. And all Dems should speak out about

baseless smears. They should have Biden’s back.

[George II]

3. That's a lot of subjective, if I can say it, bs. That "article" was written by three people -

Two are ex-Politico writers and the third writes an anti-Biden piece at least once a week for the Times.

Biden isn't "struggling to form a response", he has addressed this several times with strong, sensible words.

[dalton99a]

6. +1

[DrFunkenstein]

15. He Missed a Crucial Moment and a Plurality Believe Biden Pressured Ukraine

Similarly, Kerry eventually denounced the Swift Boaters, but his hesitation sowed doubts in the public imagination.

This is part of the reason that we saw initial polls showing that a strong plurality of Americans believe Biden applied pressure on Ukraine to stop investigating his son — 42% to 37% - despite the complete lack of truth to the allegations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/01/ukraine-story-appears-be-hurting-trump-possibly-biden-too/

[onetexan]

20. a plurality? like the rabid trump base? c'mon

[DrFunkenstein]

41. Where is everyone else?

I know that the 42% contains the deplorables, but the fact that it there is clear daylight between them and the number of those who believe Biden did nothing wrong is seriously worrying. Not for Biden - this is not faux concern. For getting Trump out of the White House.

I'm not the one going out to the world and telling people that Biden did something wrong. In fact, I've been very clear that Biden did nothing wrong. So don't blame me if you don't like how people are responding to the news.

[Thekaspervote]

44. Disagree

Trump's Biden-Ukraine Narrative Isn't Moving Democratic Voters

https://morningconsult.com/2019/10/02/trumps-biden-ukraine-narrative-isnt-moving-democratic-voters/

• 55% of Democratic voters said Hunter Biden’s ties to Burisma Holdings would have no impact on their vote in 2020.

•32% of Democratic primary voters back the former vice president as their first-choice candidate, unchanged since mid-September.

• 41% of Democratic voters said Biden has the best chance to beat Trump, unchanged since a poll conducted after the Houston

Biden responds with Washington post op ed

Joe is amazing in this editorial https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/joe-biden-trump-wont-destroy-me-and-he-wont-destroy-my-family/2019/10/05/9544b9a4-e7cc-11e9-a6e8-8759c5c7f608_story.html

Enough is enough. Every day — every few hours, seemingly — more evidence is uncovered revealing that President Trump is abusing the power of the presidency and is wholly unfit to be president. He is using the highest office in the land to advance his personal political interests instead of the national interest.

The president’s most recent violation of the rule of law — openly calling for China to interfere in our elections, as he stood on the South Lawn of the White House — is so outrageous, it’s clear he considers the presidency a free pass to do whatever he wants, with no accountability....

It is easy to be distracted by Trump’s daily outrages — to become obsessed with them or numb to them, or to normalize behavior that Americans would not have tolerated in any of the previous presidents in the nation’s history. Not me. While the House does its job on impeachment, I’m going to stay focused on what matters: remaking education so every child in the country is equipped to succeed in the 21st century; getting weapons of war off the streets and ending the epidemic of gun violence; building on Obamacare so that every American has access to quality, affordable health care; taking on the climate emergency imperiling the planet; and much more. I’m going to fight to ensure that the United States is once again the leader of the free world; a champion of democracy; and the bulwark of a stable, peaceful international order.

And to Trump and those who facilitate his abuses of power, and all the special interests funding his attacks against me: Please know that I’m not going anywhere. You won’t destroy me, and you won’t destroy my family. And come November 2020, I intend to beat you like a drum.

[DrFunkenstein]

74. Everyone With a WaPo Subscription Will Be Impressed

It was a strong statement, somewhat belatedly, reaching a distinct audience. For me, he would have been better served pivoting the conversation to focus on all the plans he has to help the American people, rather than getting down in the mud. Instead, it is almost an afterthought at the end of the piece.

But kudos for at least punching back. Typically, Dems get bogged down with explaining the details of how things happened. It's a waste of time that only makes us look weak. I'd rather see Biden the pugilist than Biden the one who showed his belly to George W. Bush before a $1.7 Trillion war.

[emmaverybo]

29. Yes. And just appeared before six hundred who applauded his battle stance.

[Thekaspervote]

52. Yup!! Let's play smear the front runner

No wonder the NYT digital subscriptions are down 40% save travel and cooking

Readers know they have choices. I don’t care which candidate it is they should not be smearing them

[Blue_Adept]

69. Digital subscriptions are up.

Got any proof of this mysterious 40% number that folks keep throwing around?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/07/business/media/new-york-times-earnings.html

The number of paid subscriptions, digital and print, reached 4.7 million, a high. Nearly 3.8 million people pay for the publisher’s online products, with the company adding a net total of 197,000 customers for its news, crossword and cooking apps during the quarter, a sharp increase from the 109,000 subscriptions added in the same period in 2018. Of those subscribers, 131,000 came for the digital news product.

I get that people hate the NYT for reasons, but why lie?

[Bleacher Creature]

4. The only reason there's a "challenge" at all is because of papers like the NYT.

The stuff about Biden is so overtly false and misleading, yet the NYT can't let it go because of a severe case of "both sides" disease.

[BlueMTexpat]

7. True. eom

[George II]

9. It's like they're bending over backwards to appear to be "neutral" in the face of trump's attacks.

[Zambero]

28. Demagogue Joe McCarthy was granted years of "neutrality" by the media

His attacks went on unabated. Fear promoted silence, reputations were besmirched, and lives were ruined. And then someone ultimately called him out, but given history there is no instant off-on switch for these people. The Donald Trumps of the world rely on two switch settings: "On" and "Overdrive".

[blm]

11. I just posted a similar observation. NYT is getting the story wrong

Just to participate in bothsiderism. Biden is doing fine.

[emulatorloo]

26. Yes, was a very good thread.

[emmaverybo]

30. Thank you. I see much objectivity from Warren supporters at crucial times when we recognize

the real and shared enemy is Trump.

[blm]

33. Agree. NYT is really reaching here. Other news outlets have been fairer

To Biden on the overall story, and have been raking Trump over the coals for his lies ....at long last.

[Cha]

93. NYT Gas Lighting Again.

[BeyondGeography]

8. "I can't believe this guy is going after my family like this."

Said to Chris Coons.

Sorry, but that’s pathetic.

[Blue_true]

65. Trump accused Hillary of being responsible for Bill's transgressions (as did some on our left).

Trump is a vicious creep, the only thing that stops him is an immediate and forceful effort to show him as a lying asshole.

[onetexan]

10. NYT BS as usual

[Thekaspervote]

45. Is it any wonder the NYT digital subscriptions are down 40% save travel and cooking

I used to read it religiously but have since dropped my subscription- long b4 the primaries came into view.

They play to dotard way too much for my taste

[Politicub]

56. That's not true. Subscriptions are up. Why would you put out false info?

The number of paid subscriptions, digital and print, reached 4.7 million, a high. Nearly 3.8 million people pay for the publisher’s online products, with the company adding a net total of 197,000 customers for its news, crossword and cooking apps during the quarter, a sharp increase from the 109,000 subscriptions added in the same period in 2018. Of those subscribers, 131,000 came for the digital news product.
Aug. 7, 2019
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/07/business/media/new-york-times-earnings.html

The Times added significantly more subscribers compared to the same quarter last year.

The majority of new subscribers (131,000) subscribe to the digital news product.

[Thekaspervote]

62. Here's what I'm talking about

The ‘Trump bump’ in the New York Times’ digital news subscription growth is over
Almost 40 percent of new digital subscriptions are for crosswords and cooking.

Here’s the whole,story....at the link

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/9/17671000/new-york-times-trump-subscribers-news-slower-growth

[Blue_Adept]

70. Okay, that's an incredibly mathematically challenged way of expressing something wrong

If you're saying 40% of the new subs are for the non-news side, that doens't mean it's down 40% when they're increasing by 110,000 subscribers.

That's posting like a deplorable and we should be better here.

[cwydro]

12. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

I really think Joe needs to reshuffle some advisors.

I don’t think he’s getting the best advice imo.

[Demsrule86]

13. More Biden bashing...seriously turns me off...the more you post this stuff...the more

I support Biden and I doubt I am the only one after looking at reliable polls. Warren has my support in a general and I had considered her should Biden not run...but no more. she has my support in a general but never a primary. I would support Harris or Sanders before her.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. Iowa: An A+ Poll Before Had Biden Up 9%, An A+ Poll After Had Him Down 2%

Shoot the messenger if you want, but there's a reason why Biden is looking to Super Tuesday to stop Warren.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/iowa/

[Drunken Irishman]

43. The messenger is making a massively big assumption...

It kind of undermines your argument when you default to a pretty weak point of causation equaling correlation.

Especially when you struggle to even get the timeline correct.

That last Iowa poll was in the field on 9/14-18 - well before this issue became the focal point of the campaign. But more importantly, the last Iowa poll from Selzer was ... back in June. The race has narrowed considerably since then. Your poll doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that Biden's support has dipped a bit compared to his peak. Well gosh, anyone paying attention to the last two months could tell you that.

That Iowa poll is irrelevant to this narrative because it was released before any of this blew up at a national level so I am unsure why you're even bringing it up.

[Thekaspervote]

53. Indeed a big assumption... thx for pointing this out

[Thekaspervote]

46. Here's how the split of the first 4 early primary states break down

In the first four states, here's how it stacks up (RCP averages):

41 Iowa Warren 26.2, Biden 24, Sanders 16.3 (16, 15, 10)
24 New Hampshire Biden 23.2, Warren 21.0, Sanders 17.2 (9, 8, 7)
36 Nevada Biden 24.0, Sanders 21.7, Warren 18.3 (14, 12, 10)
54 South Carolina Biden 38.3, Warren 16.0, Sanders 13.3 (38, 16, 0)

That would give:

Biden 15+9+14+38 = 76
Warren 16+8+10+16 = 50
Sanders 10+7+10+0 = 27

[Demsrule86]

72. He will do what he needs in Iowa...but Iowa doesn't look like us ...and will not choose the nominee.

After Iowa, where does Warren go? Maybe next door in New Hampshire...but the mid west, the south and the west will not be good for her especially when she can't win AA support. The idea that two small white states choose our nominee is going to end this year...wait for it.

[DrFunkenstein]

75. Margin of Error in Nevada, 9 Points Over Biden in California

And everywhere trending upwards at just the right time.

[Demsrule86]

79. Link? I believe Biden will win Nevada.

or be close enough that it doesn't matter.

[DrFunkenstein]

81. Links For California and Nevada

While Warren trailed Biden, the Massachusetts senator was within the margin of error of the former vice president for the first time in a public poll in the Silver State.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/09/24/elizabeth-warren-within-striking-distance-joe-biden-nevada/2426383001/

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) holds a 9-point lead over her closest competitor in California in a new poll of the 2020 Democratic primary released Wednesday.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-09-24/2020-democrats-elizabeth-warren-leads-california-poll

[Demsrule86]

89. New poll for California is not at the link...and she is within striking distance?

We don't have winner take all thus she will not make big inroads even if it is true and I don't think it is about California or Nevada. Biden will be the nominee IMHO...and the more Warren supporters attack him (not talking about you), the more likely it it will happen. She still can't get the AA vote...thus will not and should not be our nominee...not if we want to win. Again she has my support in a general but not in a primary. One poll was not at the link...the other talked about momentum and striking distance...thus this does not change my opinion.

[cwydro]

17. Lol, because a Warren supporter says something you don't like?

You discount the candidate?

I’ve seen others post that here, and it makes no sense to me at all.

There’s a very few here that I regularly ignore, but I don’t hold it against their candidate when they post things I dislike. Smh.

[Turin_C3PO]

22. Spot on!

I saw another poster the other day say they disliked Warren because of her DU supporters. So ridiculous. There’s a few fellow Biden supporters who I can’t stand yet I still support him.

[cwydro]

25. Silliness.

If someone can’t make up their own mind about a candidate based upon the CANDIDATE’s merits, but instead judge him or her by what a bunch of anonymous people say on the internet...well...that’s a very odd way to pick a candidate.

[blm]

34. Same here. No one can make me not support a candidate based on

What their supporters post at a political site. That’s just silly.

[cwydro]

37. Yeah, I'm not that easily persuaded by random posters lol.

Thank goodness!

[Bradshaw3]

38. I agree

I don't like the postings of some Biden supporters here but if he wins the nomination he will get my full support, my money and my volunteering.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. I Will Gladly Vote For Biden

I disagree with him on several issues, I feel like there were moments like his pre-invasion Iraq hearings and Anita Hill that make me question his judgment, I feel like he is far more susceptible to Trump's attacks than people would like to think, but in the end I will not only vote for him, but I will actively volunteer for his campaign if he is our nominee.

Trump is the root of all evil, and anyone who even sits on their hands against him is highly suspect to me. Biden, meanwhile, would surely make a thoroughly decent President. I just think these times of corruption and environmental crisis call for someone who is ready to fight hard for what is right and pragmatic enough to get things done. That's not the same as "moderate," certainly not given the pernicious influence of the powerful elite on our Party establishment.

[cwydro]

51. Yep. This.

Me too.

And there’s nothing a Biden supporter could say about Warren or anyone else to change my mind about supporting him if he becomes the nominee.

[Celerity]

67. This is where I am at too.

I would never let a few anonymous posters dictate my actions in real life.

[Bradshaw3]

73. Love that take

Especially on something as critically important as this upcoming election. I don't care if the Democratic nominee is a bag of rags, that would be exponentially better than dump.

And how can anyone justify, as you write, letting "a few anonymous posters dictate (their) actions in real life."?

[Demsrule86]

49. Has Warren said one thing about the attacks on Biden and his family.No! And I believe we

have a situation where some in the media and some pollsters are shoving Warren down our throats...instead of saying nice things about Warren, some of her supporters launch hits on Biden ...supporter influence folks in terms of their candidate. I don't dislike Warren...liked her more at the beginning of the primary than now honestly...should she be the nominee she has my full support but not in the primary...

[Thekaspervote]

60. Right there with ya!!

There are posters here that just can’t say anything positive and it grates on everyone. If posters want to state their opinions fine!! Then say so... it’s an opinion.

if you have facts then link them. Everyone except those that want to turn the primaries into a road rage race can and will accept the state of the race and the polls regardless of whether it’s YOUR candidate that is or isn’t currently winning

[Demsrule86]

71. They link opinion pieces too...no hard facts.

[DrFunkenstein]

84. Show a Link to Biden Defending "Pocahontas"

Seemed fine to sit on the sidelines for that one.

[Demsrule86]

88. So you equate a nickname given to Warren by Scott Brown with asking a foreign government to

manufacture dirt on a political rival...OK then. I guess there is nothing more to say about this...other than she is making a political mistake.

[Zambero]

31. Exactly

I just sent in another contribution this morning. And in less than a year from now I will actively support whoever gets the nomination. For now, Democrats need to stand together and resist the smearing, gaslighting, deflection, and blatant abuse of power directed at a candidate perceived as the larger threat to Trump's re-election. This can be accomplished by continuing to support a candidate other than Joe Biden. Those who are in "gotcha" mode need to think twice about doing Trump's bidding for him. He does not want a unified front, perferring division, chaos, and infighting stemming from whatever deflective bomb he throws into the proceedings.

[Thekaspervote]

47. Agree... there's a lot of "oh I'm so concerned for Joe." That doesn't work either

Go Joe go... you are still the front runner and we got your back!!

[Gothmog]

14. trump is wholly unfit to be president.

This is a good message and is sufficient for me

Link to tweet

Enough is enough. Every day — every few hours, seemingly — more evidence is uncovered revealing that President Trump is abusing the power of the presidency and is wholly unfit to be president. He is using the highest office in the land to advance his personal political interests instead of the national interest.

The president’s most recent violation of the rule of law — openly calling for China to interfere in our elections, as he stood on the South Lawn of the White House — is so outrageous, it’s clear he considers the presidency a free pass to do whatever he wants, with no accountability. ….

It is easy to be distracted by Trump’s daily outrages — to become obsessed with them or numb to them, or to normalize behavior that Americans would not have tolerated in any of the previous presidents in the nation’s history. Not me. While the House does its job on impeachment, I’m going to stay focused on what matters: remaking education so every child in the country is equipped to succeed in the 21st century; getting weapons of war off the streets and ending the epidemic of gun violence; building on Obamacare so that every American has access to quality, affordable health care; taking on the climate emergency imperiling the planet; and much more. I’m going to fight to ensure that the United States is once again the leader of the free world; a champion of democracy; and the bulwark of a stable, peaceful international order.

And to Trump and those who facilitate his abuses of power, and all the special interests funding his attacks against me: Please know that I’m not going anywhere. You won’t destroy me, and you won’t destroy my family. And come November 2020, I intend to beat you like a drum.

[MarcA]

18. Point out that this is just more of drumph being a liar and a con

Then state the facts and move on. Then if the media wants to address it more,
clearly state that you have already addressed it and now let's talk about policies.

[Skya Rhen]

23. There is no one so blind as one who refuses to see...

[onetexan]

24. agree; hard to get people to remove their blinders

[cwydro]

32. Lol.

The irony.

[Thekaspervote]

48. With more new A rated polls out today showing Biden maintaining a comfortable lead I guess it makes

It even harder

[emulatorloo]

21. The NYT? The paper that bought an "exclusive" to the lie book "Clinton Cash" in 2016?

And continued to publish excepts from it even after this dishonest Mercer/Bannon hitjob after it was debunked?

Zero respect for the NYT after that bullshit.

[emmaverybo]

27. Your narrative ignores Biden knocking it out of the park with his WaPo Op-Ed. Based on comments,

readers were very impressed and liked his approach. Their reactions also gave a counter to the kind of story some supporters of other candidates like to tell. On the other hand, I have found DU Warren supporters who often push back against unfair garbage as I see they have here, no matter who the garbage targets.

[Mme. Defarge]

36. Bingo!

[DrFunkenstein]

39. The WaPo Doesn't Seem Too Impressed

But there are signs that Trump’s attacks are having an impact, even among prospective Biden supporters. One Biden volunteer, Marcie Lammers of Las Vegas, who showed up to his Las Vegas event last week wearing a Biden T-shirt, said the backlash to the impeachment news was clear in the phone calls she has been making for her candidate.

“I know it’s getting in the way,” she said of the impeachment talk and Trump’s accusations about the Bidens’ actions involving Ukraine. “When I do the phone banking, at first people said ‘Well, I’m thinking about Joe or I’m leaning toward Joe.’ Now, the people that do pick up the phone, they say, ‘Well if he wants to collect money why doesn’t he just get it from Ukraine?’”

The danger for Biden, strategists say, is that voters look past the details of Trump’s charges of corruption against him, many of which have been debunked, and fear the impact. Biden did seek the dismissal of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had previously investigated a company where his son worked — but he was carrying out U.S. policy with the support of other Western governments, not intervening on behalf of his family. Hunter Biden was not accused of any wrongdoing as part of investigation into his Ukrainian employer, which was dormant at the time his father sought the dismissal.

“Whether it is true or not, you have to take it seriously that it is something that might stick, even if there is no there there,” said Glen Caplin, who served as a top presidential campaign adviser for Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.), who ended her campaign in August. “We saw it in 2016,” he added, referring to charges of corruption that Trump leveled against former secretary of state Hillary Clinton.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/uncertainty-takes-over-the-lead-in-the-democratic-presidential-race/2019/10/05/88b3cdba-e6e6-11e9-a331-2df12d56a80b_story.html

Biden's hesitation let the story get in front of him, instead of surfing the wave with a decisive response. Same with the Swift Boaters back in 2004.

[Thekaspervote]

50. No, the Ukrainegate scandal is not moving the dial with Democratic voters

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287300636

Trump's Biden-Ukraine Narrative Isn't Moving Democratic Voters

https://morningconsult.com/2019/10/02/trumps-biden-ukraine-narrative-isnt-moving-democratic-voters/

• 55% of Democratic voters said Hunter Biden’s ties to Burisma Holdings would have no impact on their vote in 2020.

•32% of Democratic primary voters back the former vice president as their first-choice candidate, unchanged since mid-September.

• 41% of Democratic voters said Biden has the best chance to beat Trump, unchanged since a poll conducted after the Houston

President Donald Trump’s allegations of impropriety against Joe Biden over his son’s business ties in Ukraine aren’t moving the needle with Democratic voters, at least not yet.

A new Morning Consult/Politico poll, conducted Sept. 27-30 among 2,488 registered voters, found 55 percent of Democrats said Hunter Biden’s former role as a board member at Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian natural gas company, would have no impact on their plans for 2020.

And while 15 percent said the work by Biden’s son would make them less likely to vote for the former vice president, 13 percent said it made them more likely to do so.

[spooky3]

59. Too often, the media promotes a "horse race" approach.

Jon Stewart was right then and now.

[emmaverybo]

63. OK. Not sure why you post this. I see a great push back for Biden. But really, pushing back on

this attack is a push back on all of Trump’s anti-democratic moves on behalf of all our candidates.

[SweetieD]

42. Not a biden fan but I'm glad he is not feeding into this.

[Politicub]

54. Biden is in a tough spot.

He has done nothing wrong in regard to Ukraine.

What is tough for Biden, though, is defending his son Hunter. I would imagine that he doesn't want to see his son dragged through the mud. Hunter's name is part of the garbage that Trump and his cronies are shoveling. So Biden is in the unenviable position of defending himself and his son when he addresses Ukraine.

This article is more of an opinion piece rather than a news story, though. It comes across as concern trolling on the part of the NYT. The news story should be that Trump is telling lies about Biden and his accusations about Hunter are false.

[Lib 4 Life]

55. biden could have more forceful in his response. a full media blitz could still be in order for joe.

o

[Gothmog]

57. @JoeBiden 's favorability and standing in the primary has been stable nationwide.

Link to tweet

[ecstatic]

61. In fairness, I don't believe any of the other campaigns would have responded any better.

trump is making shit up out of thin air. It's an ugly situation because trump is so far down in the gutter and desperate to take everyone else down there with him. How do you fight such blatant lying AND projection? Everything trump has shouted at his chopper pressers regarding "corruption" applies to trump and his family.

To combat this, every campaign needs an expert psychologist who specializes in NPD on their team. trump's illness is well documented but also predictable. Use the science to disarm and unravel trump. It's there.

[blm]

66. Probably a necessity at this point.

Good post, ecstatic. Very fair minded.

[Blue_true]

64. President Clinton and President Obama answered bullshit accusations

immediately, they did not let them get legs with silence.

Republican office seekers will tell a lie, then if their democratic opponent takes the high road and turn the other cheek, republicans keep lying and also bring out the leadpipe. When republican office seekers tell a lie, the wise move is to kneecap them immediately.

[emmaverybo]

78. Actually, Obama let a lot go in 2008, refusing to get down in the mud. He did not strike back

on the Reverend Wright stuff and he did not call Ferraro out on her use of racism. He did either
ignore many times or go high when they went low.

Hillary hit him on Reverend Wright and also said that no one knew who he was. He could have reminded her that Wright had been invited to an exclusive atonement breakfast along with other select religious leaders that her husband gave during the Lewinsky scandal. Wright was seated at Hillary’s table.

He did not.

Those volunteering were held in check during his campaign.

Personally, I admired his restraint and hey, it worked.

[Blue_true]

80. President Obama had Stephanie Cutter batting down shit in 2008 and 2012.

She was very aggressive in that role and DID NOT let a lie linger unchallenged.

[emmaverybo]

83. Good to know. But my point is he remained often above the fray and did not directly slug back

during debates or through statements he gave while day after day the news, even the most liberal
sources, hashed and re-hashed Wright in a proxy smear against Obama. So those comparing Biden’s response with Obama’s might better evaluate the choice Biden has made to fight on some fronts, but with dignity, and to ignore other areas.

And in the end, Obama gave up Wright. He scrapped his role in the inauguration and avoided any more defense of him. Unfortunate because Wright was an accomplished
and wonderfully productive man respected by many, whose speech was taken out of context entirely and misconstrued.

To take on everything can open up Pandora's box. Obama knew when to not feed the rumor mill as I believe does Biden.

But criticizing Biden for how he has handled criticism from all quarters is just another creepy thing he and his supporters have to deal with.

[Blue_true]

85. They took on the Reverend Wright bs on immediately, they did not let it grow.

They went after it with a multi-faceted effort, that included a televised address on the subject.

[emmaverybo]

86. They? Not in the debates I saw. No, he did not crushingly respond to Ferraro's racist dog whistles.

No, I gave an example from a debate re: Reverend Wright. And yes, he uninvited Wright to the inauguration. And yes, volunteers were constantly admonished to not “go there” on opponents. So
“They” would mean surrogates. His campaign was a study in restraint.

If you want to make the point that Biden is not fighting hard enough, well, you made it. I don’t agree, simple.

[Blue_true]

87. What I saw was immediate and effective counter-attacks on lies.

That is what I took from the campaigns of 2008 and 2012. We will simply have to disagree.

[Cha]

92. @JoeBiden camp punches back to Trump tweets:

Link to tweet

[treestar]

68. What are you supposed to do with Bullshit accusations?

This attitude practically rewards people for making them.

[Gothmog]

82. @JoeBiden camp punches back to Trump tweets:

Link to tweet

[Cha]

91. Thanks, Goth! Biden Punches Back..

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

90. New ad- In Here

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

94. 'There's nothing discernible to show Biden's been punched in the nose'

Link to tweet

Joe Biden has been under sustained assault from President Trump for more than two weeks.

But there’s little evidence that Biden has been significantly bloodied, according to a raft of new polls.
Story Continued Below

In more than a dozen state and national Democratic primary polls since Trump launched his near-daily fusillade of attacks accusing Biden and his son, Hunter, of corrupt business dealings in Ukraine, Biden’s standing has remained largely static.

“There’s nothing discernable to show Biden’s been punched in the nose over Ukraine,” said Tim Malloy, pollster with Quinnipiac University, which released a survey Tuesday showing Biden has lost no support from Democratic voters since its last poll released Sept. 25.

[Gothmog]

95. According to Nate, this story has NOT hurt Joe

Link to tweet

[Cha]

96. Thanks for the Reality Check, Goth!

Link to tweet

May his numbers keep rising! Show impotentrump who's boss.