Why is Biden in the lead?

[Sparkly]

I hear it's because he's viewed as the safest bet to beat Trump. He has the gravitas of having served as President Obama's VP. He's got decades and decades of experience.

But he has never been a great -- or even a good -- retail politician, as many times as he's tried, and now he is far, far worse. Set aside the long history that the RNC would love to turn into juicy campaign ads and smears, this is simply NOT our best candidate, by any measure.

Can we just admit that many of his answers were virtually incoherent?? (Radios and record players, as just one example?) I know what he was trying to say, but he is not able to say it.

Debates should matter. This is our party's time to decide. (Or, our party in the three early states -- the rest seem to follow suit.) My state is late, but I support candidates in the process.

In my undecided opinion, three of tonight's ten are now X'd out: Biden, Bernie, and Yang.

I have some favorites among the other seven -- I get emails and contribute to three -- but actually I'd be very excited to support and campaign for any one of them.

I just don't get why Biden is on the top of any list except the "ruled out" list. He's a great guy, and was a fine VP; this is just my personal opinion of his candidacy for potus. It astonishes me, seeing his performance tonight, that all the criticism and commentary is about the people who may have gone against him.

[EveHammond13]

1. I trust his values and he is the best at restoring our relationship with allies.

[Sparkly]

7. Any reason not to trust the others

or not to believe in their abilities to establish diplomatic relationships with allies? (Not really rocket science for a Democrat.)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Because more people like him than like the others?

That's a tautological answer, obviously, but there it is.

[Sparkly]

12. Kinda tautological, but I like him, too.

I just think he's a really weak choice as our Democratic Nominee in 2020.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

25. But if most people like him they'll vote for him and he'll win.

How can the candidate that people like the best possibly be a weak candidate? That's the very definition of a strong candidate.

[Sparkly]

69. Because "liking" isn't enough.

There are many things stronger than liking, especially "BOO!"

A campaign that shows him to be weak, indecisive, unfocused, senile, whatever the RNC wants to say (we've seen it all in the past few decades) will turn "liking Biden" into "ANYBODY BUT BIDEN!!!" in a heartbeat.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

80. Compared to Trump?

[John Fante]

88. Since you're so worried about what the scary RNC might

say, here's a list of democratic candidates they WON'T launch a massive smear campaign against:

[Demsrule86]

152. And it will be ANYBODY BUT WARREN TOO...The difference is Joe has ties to and can win the moderate

states. He is not senile either...very bad thing to say about a Democrat. He can win PA, MI and WI...without which Trump loses. Joe is a good guy and will be ready on day one as he was a big part of Pres. Obama's administration. I don't see how people don't want him as the nominee.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Biden's broken record moment

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/bidens-broken-record-moment/597994/

...Look, there's institutional segregation in this country. And from the time I got involved, I started dealing with that. Red lining, banks, making sure we are in a position where—look, you talk about education. I propose that what we take is those very poor schools, the Title I schools, triple the amount of money we spend from $15 to $45 billion a year. Give every single teacher a raise to the equal raise of getting out of the $60,000 level. Number two, make sure that we bring in to help the teachers deal with the problems that come from home. We need, we have one school psychologist for every 1,500 kids in America today. It's crazy. the teachers are—i'm married to a teacher, my deceased wife is a teacher. They have every problem coming to them. We have to make sure that every single child does, in fact, have 3-, 4-, and 5-year-olds go to school—school, not daycare, school. We bring social workers into homes with parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. It's not want they don't want to help, they don't know quite what to do. Play the radio, make sure the television— excuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night, the phone—make sure that kids hear words, a kid coming from a very poor school—a very poor background will hear 4 million words fewer spoken by the time they get there.

That’s a word salad even Sarah Palin would have hesitated to serve...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/bidens-broken-record-moment/597994/

But, yeah, his best debate yet...As one of the CNN pundits said, I wish the bar for the front runner was higher.

[NYMinute]

9. Just like after every debate

knives are out for Biden to spin him as a loser.

Fortunately, the knives are blunt and fragile -- more likely to harm the one who wields them than the target.

[BeyondGeography]

13. It's a transcript, not a knife

[NYMinute]

18. Transcript spun with bad editorializing nt

[awesomerwb1]

29. Yep.

[BeyondGeography]

32. So you like that answer on its own?

[Sparkly]

20. Right...

And that was only one example.

[BeyondGeography]

26. The Iraq answer was almost as bad

I missed the beginning when he was obviously sharper, but he faded big time.

[crazytown]

21. cf ewarren

I will appoint public school teacher as Secretary of Education.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. And lost in that word salad is a tired 80s-era respectability policy as well. Embarrassing.

[OilemFirchen]

40. Was it you touting the Great Julin Castro?

Forgive me if I'm mistaken. Many posters here sound alike.

[BeyondGeography]

48. Yeah, that was sarcasm

In relation to Biden’s deer in the headlights moment on deportations.

[Tipperary]

67. Yikes. nt

[NYMinute]

4. Biden has empathy ... like Obama and Clinton before him

Biden is authentic. Biden is a decent human being. One can trust Biden to always do the right thing.

Those qualities are all one needs.

Beto has the very same qualities sans the experience.

[EveHammond13]

8. yep. read any cognitive science and you will learn that this is what people vote on.

[PatSeg]

75. I agree

The differences in policy are very small among the candidates. People are going to go with the one(s) that they trust and feel is authentic. If someone comes across as phony, too political, or mean-spirited, they will lose votes.

We have some excellent choices this election. We have no room to complain.

[EveHammond13]

10. Beto just gave a great answer to Chris Matthews

Asked if it was fair for Julian to go after Biden like that? Beto: No. I didn't like that.

[NYMinute]

17. Julian did a self-immolation tonight nt

[Blue_true]

55. I believe he drops out soon. Yang will hang around as a side-show. nt

[emmaverybo]

39. Yes, And agree about Beto,

[OrwellwasRight]

102. Some people think he has empathy...

I don't see enough of it to view him as the best Democratic candidate, unless you count empathy for banks and credit card companies.

But what do I know? I didn't find Gore wooden or Dukakis silly. I'm clearly not your average voter. Nor am I swayed by media repetition of memes like "Kerry is aloof" and "Biden is the most electable."

I'll decide who is electable once someone has been elected.

[NYMinute]

106. BS supporters never see the good in other candidates nt

[OrwellwasRight]

107. Hmmm, that's not judgmental at all.

I've donated to 4 Democratic candidates so far. So I must have given to at least 3 that I don't see any good in. Boy, I must be an idiot.

[Gothmog]

109. Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the party has available

Link to tweet

[NYMinute]

110. Yep ... nt

[questionseverything]

153. pushing us into war with iraq was far from the right thing

[NYMinute]

154. oh brother .. not this again

[EveHammond13]

5. GOP will have a very hard time smearing him as "socialist" - takes a big weapon away from GOP.

[Sparkly]

24. There are other candidates who can claim that

and yet speak in complete sentences, without a long record of controversial positions.

[Celerity]

53. Yes, but, unfortunately, they all poll so poorly (ATM) with my fellow PoC, who are the kingmakers

in our primary system.

[Sparkly]

59. Hence my question.

What's so special about Biden? Why on earth is he polling so well, while he is speaking so incredibly poorly??

[Celerity]

82. Obama, 90% of it is his link to President Obama

It certainly is not his Senatorial record.

I agree, it is frustrating, look at who I support (if we are comparing speaking, big picture comprehensive vision, and explanatory abilities.) But after the chaos and hate of Rump, so many just want a 'nice' persona who appears empathetic and who has experience.

IF Harris had went for the centre lane from the start (instead of an initial hard left tack into the lane dominated by Bernie and Warren) she would be much more viable as an Option B in the space Biden is occupying. She is trying to incrementally slide back there, but it takes time and can make her look unfocused.

My big hope is Biden picks Abrams as VP, as I do not see him as 100% being up to a full 8 years, and that places her as the front-runner for 2024 or 2028. I would put Harris in there too, IF she can focus her overall positioning. Risk-adverse Biden will not pick Pete, as the endemic homophobia (and the SB cop issues, especially that shooting) in our community is a no-go for Joe to risk black support and turnout over. I hate that, it hurts my core being (as I am a mixed race lesbian) but it is the reality of the times still, especially with older blacks, and also the fundie xian ones.

[Sparkly]

91. I must be in another universe.

I still don't see it.

In the lens of "Biden-vision," Harris did something wrong, Castro did something wrong, etc. -- but actually they're all on equal footing and there's no reason to be thinking about Biden's VP pick!

There are many "nice" personas out there -- Booker, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, O'Rourke, they've stayed friendly, if that's the issue.

I just think the support of Biden is odd, misplaced, and NOT in our best interest.

[Celerity]

99. The number one overarching issue is defeating Rump in the general. Until Biden looses that mantle

(and I do not see it all so far) the nominations is his to lose. If we could insert any of the 25 plus candidates who have so far announced (some are already out) would he be my first choice? NO, not even close, as many would make better POTUS's IMHO, but elections (and life itself) do not work that way. I am nothing if not a pragmatic realist, despite my young age, when it comes to US politics, especially after 40 plus years of systemic RW shift via Rethug gerrymandering and quasi-scientific voter suppression.

[True_Blue]

157. ITA

Biden was so bad in the last debate that I'm deeply concerned about him in a debate with Trump.

[FoxNewsSucks]

30. That won't stop them.

They'll scream "socialist" all over the Fox "news" Sewer and AM hate radio. Every day. No matter who gets the nomination. And the slack-jawed booger-eaters who voted for tRump will believe it no matter who.

Remember, they called Kerry the "most liberal" member of the Senate in 2004. In 2008 Obama was the "most liberal" Senator. Neither one was, but that didn't stop the rightwing noise machine then and the truth won't stop it now.

[redstateblues]

86. It won't work with Joe. Bernie wears the moniker unabashedly.

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

113. Lolololol

Not like we’re up against a 24x7x365 propaganda network or anything. And they’re totally not gonna just make up random shit or anything.....

[EveHammond13]

6. I trust Biden to build the greatest cabinet and executive team

[Sparkly]

33. Above all others? Why?

Why would his be better than Mayor Pete's, for example? or Cory Booker's? Kamala Harris's? Elizabeth Warren's? Amy Klobuchar's? Julian Castro's? Beto O'Rourke's?

[bigtree]

11. EveHammond13 likes him

...

[EveHammond13]

16. well, I'm sorry your candidate is not doing well but that is not my fault.

[bigtree]

34. I work retail

...I have nothing of great value invested in any of these candidates, and this isn't a contest between me and anyone here.

But I noticed you're a fan.

[Tipperary]

76. She did very well in the debate.

Just sayin’.

[mysteryowl]

14. Name recognition

People are familiar with him.

[Quixote1818]

28. Bingo

[mysteryowl]

68. Ha!

Literally a bingo card!

[JI7]

101. Sanders has same level name recognition

[Rhiannon12866]

132. Not at all. I'm willing to bet that there are many voters who can't name their own senators

I remember Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" and Jimmy Kimmel does much the same thing - where they ask people on the street obvious questions that they're unable to answer, like who did you vote for in the last presidential election? This may have changed in our surreal age of Trump, but the truth is that too many people aren't paying the slightest bit of attention. That's one big reason we ended up with Trump - and need to GOTV.

[JI7]

134. he ran for president in 2016 , that's how he got higher name recognition

there was some poll or something done which asked about this and biden and sanders were on the same level and warren was very close to them and probably same as them now.

[TwilightZone]

136. Sanders' name recognition is nearly 100%.

I'm not sure why people keep insisting otherwise. It's as though people have forgotten that he ran a high-profile campaign for the nomination four years ago.

Biden and Sanders, name recognition identical at 96% -- and that was six months ago:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-and-bernies-support-isnt-just-name-recognition/

[Big Blue Marble]

15. They think he will get the job done.

That is what matters to his supporters. They think he will be best at winning those
midwestern states we lost.

[Sparkly]

37. Why do they think that??

Do they watch the debates???

[Big Blue Marble]

79. Most of them probably don't watch the debates.

But they will vote. They are comfortable with Joe.

[thesquanderer]

141. Probably most polled have not seen the debates. And that worries me.

A relatively small percentage of eligible voters have seen the debates so far, so if the poll samples are representative, most people polled have not seen the debates, either.

(Last night's ratings were strong, with estimated 14 million watching, but that's only about 10% of the number who voted in 2016.)

The reason it worries me is that I think Biden is weak in the debates, that's where you see that many of his sentences are barely coherent, and many of his answers can veer into unfortunate rambles. I worry that many people think he'll be strong against Trump based on polling and other reasons offered in this thread... but I fear that he will not come off well in debates against Trump, which more people WILL watch.

I worried about this kind of thing after watching videos of some appearances months ago, then felt a bit better after seeing him do better in the debates than some of what I'd seen (maybe he was better, or maybe I'd gotten used to it?), but last night's debate brought that worry back strongly again.

[Iliyah]

19. Trust . . .

And like every Democratic candidate and majority of the Democratic Party members, we love this country and cherish democracy.

[saljr1]

23. I will vote for any Democrat

Joe is in front because of people feeling he is a safe pick to beat Trump. It's like taking out my old Jethro Tull album "Living in the Past". I want a bolder and fairer vision of America. That's why I support Warren.

[Sparkly]

38. I'm just living in reality...

Nothing against Joe, but puleeeeze....

[emmaverybo]

51. He's got a message. They just got "plans." For instance, he has framed this election in its

big-picture significance. I hear the same old from Bernie and Warren about corrupt government and the one percent, but policy is so unpoetic. Where’s the vision?

Don’t see it.

Not like this:

What gave Biden’s address more power was that it wasn’t just a harangue against Trump. It was a reminder of who we are as a nation, “the soul of America,” as he called it.

“What this president doesn’t understand is that unlike every other nation on earth, we're unable to define what constitutes "American" by religion, by ethnicity, or by tribe; you can't do it.
America is an idea. An idea stronger than any army, bigger than any ocean, more powerful than any dictator or tyrant. It gives hope to the most desperate people on earth….
The most powerful idea in the history of the world I think beats in the hearts of the people of this country. And it beats in all of us. No matter your race, your ethnicity. No matter your gender identity, your sexual orientation. No matter your faith. It beats in the heart of rich and poor alike. It unites America -- whether your ancestors were Native to these shores or they were brought here forcibly and enslaved, whether they were immigrants generations back, like my family from Ireland, or those coming today looking to build a better life for your family.
The American creed – that we are all created equal –was written long-ago. But the genius of every generation of Americans has opened it wider and wider and wider, to include those who have been excluded in a previous generation. That’s why it has never gathered dust in the history books.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/07/joe-biden-reminded-all-us-what-presidential-president-would-sound-like/

[world wide wally]

27. People look at Trump and see a 70 year old who is obviously evil and demented.

Then they look at Biden and see a 70 year old experienced gentle soul (as we all aspire to).
The contrast couldn't be greater.

[Duppers]

98. +100

Thank you.

[GulfCoast66]

31. Because we have had enough of a president who is going to 'shake things up'?

Because the things that get ‘shook up’ are us?

Democrats and Americans are ready for normalcy. God knows I am. And Biden will be a normal present working normally for the Democratic agenda.

Our traditions have been stretched to the limits. We need a normally liberal president to remind us what America is.

My opinion. Worth what you paid for it.

[Sparkly]

41. Have you noticed

Joe Biden's struggles to answer questions?

[GulfCoast66]

47. No. I have not. Is he Obama? Of course not. But who is?

[Sparkly]

52. Is he equal to ANY of the other candidates on the stage?!?

NO. He is really struggling to make sense.

[Blaukraut]

35. IMO, it is the IDEA of Biden, VP to Obama, that gives people a sense of comfort

So far, he has a mixed record of living up to that idea. There are moments where he affirms the trust in him, and other times he makes people wonder if he is really what they want him to be. That said, he is leaps and bounds above Trump.

[Sparkly]

43. I agree, policy-wise.

But would he seem that way, retail-wise, up against Trump.

I think he'd be way too weak.

[Blaukraut]

63. I don't know, but I expected more sharpness. I'll give him a couple more debates.

But he needs to step up his game, to be honest.

[BeyondGeography]

46. There were a lot of better options on that stage tonight IMO

Harris had some moments where she sparkled, particularly when she talked about public schools. Booker was engaging throughout. Buttigieg was brilliant and compelling. And I haven’t even mentioned Warren. Clinging to Biden is unnecessary and it’s holding this party back IMO. Any of these people could take Trump.

[Tipperary]

72. This.

Exactly.

[redstateblues]

95. Warren needs to prove she can win the rust belt back. As it is, she is tied with Trump

In WI. Biden is up 9

[BeyondGeography]

97. When in doubt, brandish a meaningless poll

[thesquanderer]

137. Warren polls pretty well against Trump in rust belt.

Warren vs. Trump in Pennsylvania: 2 polls, she wins both.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_warren-6865.html

Warren vs. Trump in Michigan: 3 polls, she wins all.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_warren-6769.html

Warren vs. Trump in Wisconsin: 2 polls, she wins one.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/wi/wisconsin_trump_vs_warren-6852.html

She's also competitive in Florida: 2 polls, she wins one.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/fl/florida_trump_vs_warren-6844.html

[emmaverybo]

36. Most job-specific qualified, experienced, and knowledgeable in the field. Also one of America's

most respected and well-liked, even loved politician. Only one with any foreign policy cred and stature on the world stage. Appeals to widest swath of Americans and to our base. In fact, running
way ahead of the pack with black electorate.

[Sparkly]

50. Reasons for him to be a good president.

Different question from the reasons he's ahead in the primary polls, which supposedly are all about beating Trump. Based on his difficulties in speaking, as well as his problematic record, I think he is our worst pick.

[emmaverybo]

65. I thought we should pick the guy who will make the best prez, and the guy who will is ahead in the

polls including toe to toe matches with Trump. B

[applegrove]

42. Former union members in the mid west don't want to hear from "pointy headed

Last edited Fri Sep 13, 2019, 08:34 PM - Edit history (2)

intellectuals". Biden gaffes make him human to those voters who voted for Obama and then Trump.

For those who don't believe in the Obama Trump union voters:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjf-s6nh8_kAhWVMX0KHZ-jAv8QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inquirer.com%2Fnews%2Felection-2020-pennsylvania-voters-donald-trump-barack-obama-20190829.html&psig=AOvVaw1-ZX5rQscbBLDxHKU55gvY&ust=1568507339425763

[jcgoldie]

56. Nonsense

Union members are not voting for Trump. "Pointy headed intellectuals" wtf is that?

[applegrove]

73. In the mid west obama voters did vote for Trump in numbers big enough to give them

the electoral c9llege to Trump.

[jcgoldie]

77. I live in the midwest and belong to a union and so do both of my brothers

Show some statistics to support that union members are responsible for what you say. Unions are not as stupid as you think.

[applegrove]

84. Former union members. People who feel financial anxiety because they lost good jobs.

[ChubbyStar]

90. Pure speculation

Where are the facts?

[applegrove]

96. Was a book that went into regression analysis about how people in financial anxiety

stop voting with reason and start voting with intuition (hate against the other is intuition, your economic self interests are voting wirh reason). Former union members are worried about financial things as they make half of their previous salary i would say. The book was called Enchanted America by J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood.

[jcgoldie]

116. Uhm

"Financial anxiety" + Trump voters = bullshit.

[ChubbyStar]

118. Yep! Thanks for coming back to this convo

I really didn't have the patience to reply to that poster again.

[applegrove]

122. The obama then trump voters were former union people from the midwest.

Last edited Fri Sep 13, 2019, 02:54 AM - Edit history (1)

I've been saying it for months and only tonight is it appauling to some. Strange.

[ChubbyStar]

147. Looks to me like the union memeber from the midwest wanted some facts about your claim

I would like some facts as well, not a reference to a book. Also it is appalling not appauling.

[applegrove]

148. Read the book i reccommend.

Enchanted America by J. Eric Oliver and Thomas J. Wood.

[ChubbyStar]

149. Please YOU made the claim here on DU

Not Mr. Oliver or Mr. Wood, regardless of their book. Support your premise. Because to not do so would actually be appalling. Thanks.

[applegrove]

150. Read all the way down. There were 6 million of the type who are up for grabs.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjf-s6nh8_kAhWVMX0KHZ-jAv8QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inquirer.com%2Fnews%2Felection-2020-pennsylvania-voters-donald-trump-barack-obama-20190829.html&psig=AOvVaw1-ZX5rQscbBLDxHKU55gvY&ust=1568507339425763

They didn't trust the expert class in washington. They tought Trump would save them from that.

[applegrove]

151. Here is some background. Anyone can be fooled. People default to thinking

they are not being taken for fools. That is in Malcolm Gladwell's new book. Some of them have still not woken up.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjf-s6nh8_kAhWVMX0KHZ-jAv8QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inquirer.com%2Fnews%2Felection-2020-pennsylvania-voters-donald-trump-barack-obama-20190829.html&psig=AOvVaw1-ZX5rQscbBLDxHKU55gvY&ust=1568507339425763

[BeyondGeography]

61. You should consider self-deleting

Pointy-headed intellectuals. Sheesh. George Wallace used to use that term.

[applegrove]

92. I should have put it in

quotes. I will change that.

[Sparkly]

62. Obama is an intellectual.

Not sure which has a pointier head. We'd have to see under the rodent on top of Trump's.

[applegrove]

87. Obama was cool. And careful. I'm not saying it is right to vote that way.

I am saying that is how it was in 2016 when Trump won the electoral college.

[emmaverybo]

54. Well, finally someone said it.

[Sparkly]

64. But he isn't the only one in that category, if that's your flavor.

There are other options. Why the guy who stumbles over his words?!? Seriously!!!?!

[Blaukraut]

70. Even Biden's plans will be DOA in the Senate. So talk - no matter who does it - is cheap.

[BeyondGeography]

83. Biden won't push to end the filibuster

That makes him by far the most unrealistic candidate of the top three, along with Bernie, who’s also opposed.

[Blaukraut]

85. Truth! n/t

[Bleacher Creature]

45. I'm right there with you.

I like Biden and will give him my 100% support if he's the nominee, but I'm just not seeing it.

[Celerity]

49. because he is perceived as the best bet to beat the orange bloat and we need to beat Rump nt

That said, I expect most of a Biden presidency to revolve around the absolutely necessary project of simply rolling back as much of the damage Rump has already done. The SCOTUS is a potential nightmare, and IF we do not win back the Senate in 2020 or 2022, I do not see Biden getting a justice that he has nominated even getting a vote, perhaps for 8 straight years (if he is reelected and if we still fail to take back the Senate in 2024 or 2026.)

I do not expect many (perhaps none) major future-forward paradigmatic changes in terms of progressive movement. The public option will be a massive fight, and I so hope he can pull it off, but I have serious doubts due to the institutional and economic systemic forces arrayed against it.

[HelpImSurrounded]

57. Why do you knock out Bernie?

I can understand if you think he is a non-starter but what happened in the debate that makes you think he tanked himself?

[napi21]

58. I think people also know what Joe is like and how he would govern because he was VP.

Everyone else is a guess. You depend on what they say, how they vote, promises they make. but Joe was in the 2nd job for 8 years, so they KNOW how he thinks and acts.

[Sparkly]

60. Nevertheless, as a candidate

he can't make sense in front of a microphone.

[emmaverybo]

71. He makes sense. A few wording glitches now and then. Warren pontificates like she's in a lecture

hall and Bernie harangues. Actually, Biden is a gifted speaker who connects emotionally with audiences.

[Sparkly]

78. And you think that will get by Trump?

Seriously?

REALLY?

[emulatorloo]

74. You don't seem to want answers, just opportunities to tear other DU'ers down

for supporting a candidate you don’t care for.

Why not write something positive about a candidate you like? That would be useful to undecided DU’ers.

[Sparkly]

81. I am honestly trying to understand why

considering his obvious problems -- acknowledging them honestly, not pretending they aren't there -- his supporters still believe he is the best choice.

As I said, I don't have a favorite -- I have three I actively support, seven I like a lot, and three I've ruled out.

I just do not understand Biden's enduring lead given his performance in each of the debates, and why the media continues to hit everyone who challenged him, but not his own performance.

It worries me.

[katmondoo]

89. I think Biden in spite of his gaffes comes across as a decent, caring person

[Sparkly]

93. But so do many others, no?

[Alhena]

94. Yes, very humble as well - that plays well in a Trump fatigue era

[Laura PourMeADrink]

100. Likeable. Experienced. Dignified. Honest. Working class.

Perfect ANTITHESIS of trump. Plus he doesn't scare away the middle who voted for trump thinking he'd turn normal and he did not.

[BlueMississippi]

103. Sour grapes OP? nt

[Gothmog]

104. Joe Biden's appeal actually isn't a mystery

Link to tweet

Biden shows reverence for the most popular Democrat around, former president Barack Obama; others find fault in everything from the Affordable Care Act to immigration policy. Biden does not bombard voters with a torrent of multi-part plans; he gives them a few basic positions and defends them. Biden does not campaign from the neck up; he campaigns with his heart on his sleeve. Biden is deeply optimistic; his opponents think Americans are the problem, not Trump. (I don’t suggest that his opponents are wrong, merely that their stance apparently isn’t as popular as they thought.) Biden wants normalcy plus reform; his opponents want a peaceful revolution. Biden knows people want to be heard and seen; his opponents (with the exception of Sen. Kamala D. Harris) don’t fully grasp this. They want to “help," to pepper people with ideas and a to-do list, while Biden takes the time to listen to them. (Think of the well-meaning friend who has a thousand suggestions when you are grieving and you’d rather they just shut up and commiserate.)

This is the grouchy-white-guy-in-the-diner problem all over again. Reporters are blinded by their own age, background, education and geography. Instead of going to West Virginia diners to find the Trump voter, reporters should go talk to the residents of The Villages in Florida, the African American churchgoing ladies and the buttoned-down professionals in the affluent suburbs (the Romney-Clinton voters). These people have endured a noisy, offensive and intrusive presence in the White House. They don’t necessarily want a different noisy, intrusive presence — even one they agree with on substance.

Part of the “mystery” of Biden’s appeal would be solved if the moderators flipped their questions, as one smart Democrat not in the Biden camp put it. Instead of asking Biden or another moderate, “Why aren’t you going with the big, bold idea of Medicare-for-all?,” the moderators might consider asking Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) or Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), “Why blow up Obamacare, and why don’t you trust people to choose Medicare if given the option?” Instead of assuming that extreme proposals are the standard, requiring the moderates to explain why they are such wet blankets, the moderators should press the super-progressives on questions such as: What makes you think that voters want to go through another health-care makeover? Why should poorer people pay for richer people’s health care or subsidize their college debt?

Better yet, ask the candidates to relate the personal story from a voter who moved them the most, or the last voter whose phone number they took so that the candidate could call later, or the most insightful thing they have heard from a voter. It might reveal who is talking at voters and who is listening to them.

[Bradical79]

105. Experience, genuine personality, Obama

When the current administration is as amoral and destructively idiotic as it is, decades of experience in the legislature, and being part of a competent administration for two terms are pretty big selling points to people.

Trump's personality also gives Joe Biden a big advantage. Just now on Colbert, the Pod Save America guy (Obama's speech writter) talked about people underestimating his personal appeal. He talked about how Joe really shows genuine honest emotion. I think that's a big advantage this go round because of the contrast.

[AlexSFCA]

108. Biden is by far WON the healthcare debate tonight

I was leaning towards MFA but I now believe that it is only possible by slow transition. How quickly people forget what healthcare was like before ACA. How quickly do we forget how difficult it was to pass ACA and how quickly do we get used to good things. Having public option on the exchanges is brilliant and was always part of ACA promise but it was killed in the senate. It will gradually bring costs down and will cover millions more people. It is good to have politicians like Sanders and Warren who help change minds of Americans especially young people to a point when healthcare will no longer be a political issue.

[MarcA]

112. Noun, Verb, Obama. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

115. That is cruelly good

[forgotmylogin]

114. Biden has actually been one step away from the Presidency.

People who don't follow politics as closely as we do likely default to Biden. It's like how a degree can get someone in the door of a job over people who don't have a degree.

I like Biden; with no disrespect, though, he's up against a powerhouse slate of candidates. During any other normal political circumstance, he'd be the nominee already, but 45 has brought out the best and most heroic the Democratic Party has to offer. Good for us all, actually.

[RhodeIslandOne]

117. I wasn't a fan of Hillary until her term as SoS.

Things change and to each their own.

[Garrett78]

119. Name recognition and Barack Obama. Pre-Obama, Biden was not considered pres. material.

Biden had to drop out in 1988 due to scandal. He dropped out after getting just 4% in Iowa in 2008. Biden has always been gaffe-prone, too touchy-feely and behind the times. But he was VP for the most popular president in modern times--the most recent Democratic president. And ever since 2016's election there's been this popular but bogus narrative that we need a white male moderate to take on Trump in 2020.

And Biden benefits greatly from there being so many candidates. The average person is not going to put in the effort to distinguish between 20 people they've never heard of.

If Biden loses Iowa, he's in trouble. That makes it more likely that he loses New Hampshire. And then he's really in trouble. Biden should be very grateful that both Warren and Sanders are running and hurting one another's chances in those first 2 states.

I see Biden losing at least 1 of those first 2 states, Harris pulling out a win in South Carolina and then Harris doing well enough on Super Tuesday to pretty much seal the deal. Warren and Sanders hurt one another and neither is likely to do well enough among Black voters (who will ultimately decide who our nominee is). Black folks can't take any chances--Republican policies are deadly. If Biden is shown to be vulnerable, he'll lose support.

[NCLefty]

120. You misunderstand how valuable name recognition is. Everyone knows him, and he didn't shit the bed

as VP, so he's also essentially "presidential." Those are 2 major things. You can't gloss over that.

"Name recognition" is often just hearing someone's name repeated a lot. "Branding," which is also largely repetition, works similarly and Trump uses this "trick" of how the human brain works every day to reinforce his messages (lies) so no one strays.

Trump is going to brand the frak out of our guy/gal (and it's going to be bad).

[YOHABLO]

121. Watching tonight, I saw something I hadn't noticed before ... charisma.

that's Beto. He has it big time.

[cliffside]

123. Sanders supporter in 2016, but the Dem party wanted Clinton

while the country wanted a Change candidate, it was fairly obvious listening to people years before Bush/Clinton etc. And we got a change candidate Trump. Once again the Dem party wants an establishment candidate just like they did in 2016 and they are not reading the pulse of the people. You might have mocked Sanders back in the day, not sure, not my issue today. The reason I liked Sanders in 2016 was that he has been consistent for decades, and mostly right (giving room for doubt) on racial and economic inequality, money controlling politics, climate change and HC for all without all the subsidies to corporations. Biden and Hillary both bought into the invasion of Iraq and destabilization of the ME and then blamed it on someone else. I forget the numbers of Iraqi children that were left orphans or displaced, but I am sure they know. I do remember that 25% of their population was displaced and still we forget about those people like they are disposable and our politicians say I believed Bush, sorry my mistake. Sanders challenged Bush, yes he might be getting on in years, but he had, and still has more mental awareness capacity than Biden now and then to make the correct decisions.

We have some good candidates in the group, not sure why Biden is among the top other than name recognition. While I think Obama did ok and did not disturb things too much, unlike the current occupant of the Oval Office. Obama acquiesed to the HC lobby over prescription drug prices and insurance premiums, he never let the opposition into the room, therefore no real debate on universal HC, just made a deal with the for profit companies, insurance and Pharma companies got tax payer dollars. Did you catch the speech Obama gave to the AMA and a question was asked about UHC and his reply included 'we would not have a socialist HC system in the US.'

Maybe you include Sanders in your list because of his age, but his ideas and principles have been time tested over decades. Would I have spoken out with such fervor over racial equality in the 60's and been arrested? I like some of the younger people, but just like we saw with Obama when he said he said he was for Medicare for All early on and then mocked supporters at rally later on after election. Not to diss too much there were other signs for those paying attention.

Giving Sanders a pass for all his outspoken views on racial/economic equality, money in politics and climate change dating back decades, his views have not changed. The younger people have not proven themselves, if they get into office let us hope their actions match their words.

Thing is most people do not have time to pay attention, so they just cheer for a blue or red team and people get thrown about.

[Hekate]

124. Biden hooked me with his opening ad featuring Charlottesville. He really gets it. ...

Joe started out running against Trump and nobody else, and has not let up. He is leading the way for all the rest in that regard.

As to his misspeaking -- so do others, it's just that for Joe his so-called gaffes are the lazy-ass media meme that will not die. In addition, he's a recovering stutterer, and that may have something to do with it.

[stonecutter357]

125. you seem very concerned !

Why is Biden in the lead? if you don't know now , you never will ...

[still_one]

127. Doesn't he though. Starts off with a preamble bashing Biden, "and telling us how bad he is", then

asks the question.

Almost sounds like he is doing a push poll thinking that this post will turn Biden supporters against Biden.

It is also quite insulting to Biden supporters for someone to pontificate how bad someone is, and then ask the question
with the implication how can those supporters, support such a "bad person"?

The only purpose of this thread is divisionary flamebait.

It appears that it is the OP who has the problem

[JI7]

126. Beto would be leading if he had more experience .

[still_one]

129. On what basis do you make that speculation? If you subscribe to that, then aren't you implying that

perhaps Beto shouldn't run until he gets more experience?

I am not being flippant either. He was in the House of Representatives, City Council, and Mayor pro tem of El Paseo. He ran for Senate against Ted Cruz, and while he lost, it was a very close race.

He is very bright, and his educational background is right at the top of the list.

I think the main factor is there are too many Democrats in the race right now, and until that list narrows down, and we get closer to the actual primaries, I think it will be very difficult to know what will happen.

One thing that gets lost with many of the polls going on, is that there are a significant number of people who are still undecided.

[JI7]

130. no, Biden has more experience so i can see why people would support him over Beto

that doesn't mean Beto isn't ready or should not try. Beto gets better everytime and when people hear him they can see he has in depth knowledge of policy matters.

[still_one]

131. Of course we all have our opinions, I just think it is way too early in the primary

process to determine what motivates people to bend one way or another

[Martin Eden]

128. Biden would be 82 at the end of his first term

He occasionally has difficulty speaking coherently now. What will he be like more than 5 years from now in such a demanding and stressful job?

Call me an ageist, but Biden and Sanders are off my list for that reason alone.

If none of the other candidates can beat Trump, we really are in trouble.

[seaglass]

133. Count me in as ageist also. I want a strong 2 term candidate and neither Biden or Sanders are it.

There are other reasons I have eliminated Biden and Sanders and age isn't the top reason but I will be really disappointed if one of these 2 ends up being the nominee.

[Martin Eden]

144. +1

Biden lost my vote in D primaries in October 2002 when he voted for the IWR, as did HRC.

I supported Sanders in 2012. He served his purpose by advancing progressive causes, but his time as a presidential candidate is past.

[IluvPitties]

145. Let him serve for one term.

He is a transitional leader- a bridge to normalcy.

[TwilightZone]

135. "Radios and record players"

Record players are back in a big way, as are record stores and vinyl.

As for radios, SiriusXM is in most new cars sold in the US and has 34 million subscribers.

Just because you are seemingly unaware of either of those items doesn't mean that they're irrelevant.

[jcgoldie]

138. They are only irrelevant...

...with respect to the legacy of slavery.

[BlueIdaho]

139. The pendulum swings...

After the daily hair on fire temper tantrum Presidency of the traitor Trump, many Americans want the exact opposite - a calm, stable, competent force in the White House. Many people are exhausted by the raging insanity show and just want to get back to their lives.

[customerserviceguy]

140. He has substantial African-American support

That won't help him much in Iowa or New Hampshire, but by the time that South Carolina's votes are counted, it will give him a considerable boost. And Super Tuesday has a lot of states where black voters make up sizable proportions of the Democratic electorate.

As long as Joe can come in second, or at worst, third, in most of the remaining contests, he'll be in it all the way through the convention, unless something happens to separate him from his African-American support, which probably won't happen as long as he keeps a bear hug on Barack Obama.

[coeur_de_lion]

142. Who cares why he's in the lead?

He is. Deal with it.

[SCantiGOP]

143. He is currently polling in the high 40s in SC

And we think we have a good shot at him clearing over 50% here.
Some of us liked what we had from 2009 to 2017.

[bloom]

146. I think DUers are where the country will be - if and when they pay attention.

IOW - Warren by a long shot.

[elocs]

155. Biden is not in the lead but just the favorite of those polled.

In a horse race, no horse has a lead of any kind until the horses have left the starting gate.

Well the starting gate in this race are the Iowa caucuses and until then nobody has a real lead.

[PAMod]

156. "Debates should matter..." Um, no.

Anyone who chooses a candidate based debate performances (yes, that is what they really are), is not truly paying attention.

Biden is well-liked, and will be ready to govern on day one. He IS our best candidate, and it really isn't even close. He may not check all the boxes for everyone (no one does), but he will be another Democratic president we will be proud of.