Why does Biden claim he has "the most progressive record of anyone running"?

[pnwmom]

He has a very long record that does not put him among the most progressive.

On update: Besides the points in the MSNBC article below, please see Hassan Bin Sober's post #38. Joe Biden wrote a bill allowing civil forfeitures for drug offenses that local, state, and federal law enforcement is still taking advantage of today -- without having to obtain convictions first.

As a side note, his claim also implies that he IS going to run.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/national-govt--politics/the-latest-biden-verbal-slip-draws-democrats-cheers/R3JfdwwCi9fKP8pR3DwD0J/

A slip of the tongue by former Vice President Joe Biden might suggest he's leaning toward running for the White House again.

In a keynote speech at a Saturday dinner for the Delaware Democratic Party, Biden boasted that he has "the most progressive record of anybody running." But Biden hasn't announced whether he is running again for president.

He quickly corrected himself, saying "anybody who would run — I didn't mean it. Anybody who would run."

Cheers nearly drowned out his correction. Although Biden has been known to go off script, his remark is likely to be viewed as a Washington-style gaffe — a case of accidentally telling the truth.


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/joe-biden-no-savior-progressives

2. As a young senator in the 1970s, Biden pandered to conservative constituents by turning himself into a “leading anti-busing crusader,” as one chronicler of the episode recently put it. Speaking in support of an anti-busing amendment offered by the segregationist Sen. Jesse Helms, Biden called busing “a bankrupt concept.” His opposition would help shift Democrats away from a forthright stance in favor of de-segregation policies.

3. Biden has frequently voted to ban so-called “partial-birth” abortions, and has avoided voting when other abortion legislation was being considered. He said in 2008 that he believes life begins at the moment of conception, though he wouldn’t impose that judgment on everyone.

4. As Senate Judiciary chairman, Biden angered some women’s rights advocates with his handling of Clarence Thomas’s contentious 1990 confirmation hearings, in which Thomas was accused of sexual harassment by a female subordinate, Anita Hill. Biden didn’t allow testimony from two of Hill’s female colleagues who would have corroborated Hill’s claims, but he did allow a parade of witnesses to challenge Hill’s credibility, often in flatly sexist terms. (One suggested Hill might suffer from “erotomania.”)

5. Biden’s home state of Delaware is home to numerous credit card companies, and he has a long history of support for the banking industry. He was a lead sponsor of an industry-backed 2001 bill that would have made it much harder for struggling Americans to declare bankruptcy, and voted for a similar 2005 measure that passed. Among the leading opponents of those bills? A Harvard law professor named Elizabeth Warren.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

1. Because to be a "progressive" means moving things forwards (positively).

Progress requires real accomplishments. Not just big talk with no action.

And especially not big talk/no action combined with activities that actively undermines progress and brings aid and comfort to regressive forces.

Biden is a true progressive. Some of the pretenders to the term "progressive" are wholly undeserving of such a descriptor.

[pnwmom]

2. He's the only "progressive" with a record of voting against busing for desegregation, repeatedly

He's the only "progressive" who voted, repeatedly, to make it harder for people with impossible student loans to ever get out from under them through bankruptcy.

He's more of a centrist than most of the people running this time. It's ridiculous for him to claim to be more progressive than, for example, Elizabeth Warren.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/joe-biden-no-savior-progressives

2. As a young senator in the 1970s, Biden pandered to conservative constituents by turning himself into a “leading anti-busing crusader,” as one chronicler of the episode recently put it. Speaking in support of an anti-busing amendment offered by the segregationist Sen. Jesse Helms, Biden called busing “a bankrupt concept.” His opposition would help shift Democrats away from a forthright stance in favor of de-segregation policies.

3. Biden has frequently voted to ban so-called “partial-birth” abortions, and has avoided voting when other abortion legislation was being considered. He said in 2008 that he believes life begins at the moment of conception, though he wouldn’t impose that judgment on everyone.

4. As Senate Judiciary chairman, Biden angered some women’s rights advocates with his handling of Clarence Thomas’s contentious 1990 confirmation hearings, in which Thomas was accused of sexual harassment by a female subordinate, Anita Hill. Biden didn’t allow testimony from two of Hill’s female colleagues who would have corroborated Hill’s claims, but he did allow a parade of witnesses to challenge Hill’s credibility, often in flatly sexist terms. (One suggested Hill might suffer from “erotomania.”)

5. Biden’s home state of Delaware is home to numerous credit card companies, and he has a long history of support for the banking industry. He was a lead sponsor of an industry-backed 2001 bill that would have made it much harder for struggling Americans to declare bankruptcy, and voted for a similar 2005 measure that passed. Among the leading opponents of those bills? A Harvard law professor named Elizabeth Warren.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

19. Biden took the correct stance on forced school bussing IMO.

It was clearly a failed remedy for ending school segregation--a goal Joe Biden emphatically supported.

Biden always differentiated between de jure segretation and de facto segregation.

He was firm on opposing the former, but the costs of trying to undo the latter by the massive resort to forced bussing were simply too high. The vast majority of Americans of all ethnic backgrounds support having their children attend neighborhood schools.

Force bussing upended the concept of neighborhood schools and had it not been terminated it would have likely meant the end or near-destruction of the public school system in this country, which would have been the least progressive result imaginable.

What self-styled "progressive" today is running on the idea that we should bring back forced bussing???

Clearly, a rhetorical question, as there are none.

And as much as I admire Elizabeth Warren, let's not forget she was a Republican until 1996. No political figure is perfect.

[still_one]

61. Those that use the busing issue to be critical of Biden do not realize what a disaster that was

[LongtimeAZDem]

66. No kidding; I remember watching it on the news every night. It was a war zone.

[womanofthehills]

80. But some of Biden's statements do not sit well with me

I heard this quote on Rachel's show about a week ago.

Biden: “The real problem with busing -- you take people who aren’t racist, people who are good citizens, who believe in equal education & opportunity, and you stunt their children’s intellectual growth by busing them to an inferior school...you’re going to fill them with hatred."

So, what about all the kids in the "inferior school ?????"

[Me.]

26. Anita Hill Still Rankles

I have to admit as well as his response of standing up for Cons, " I like (some?) Republicans. Someone in this thread used the word naive and I have to say he often is. With all his experience he couldn't foresee that the Cons would use his taped words in ads to get, and did, a Con elected?

[BlueMTexpat]

37. You are not alone

in these reservations.

[Me.]

40. ...

[ucrdem]

5. slam dunk.

and let's not forget the brogressive positions on gun control, international agreements on trade and climate, immigration, and storing nuclear waste.

[Renew Deal]

3. Because anybody can say anything they want

And what he said is true

[pnwmom]

4. It's true that he's more progressive than Elizabeth Warren? LOL. n/t

[ucrdem]

6. Warren ran down the TPP for reasons that remain mysterious.

Not progressive at all.

[Renew Deal]

7. What does progressive really mean?

It’s just another label. There is no certification process

[Igel]

8. Not what he said.

Person versus record.

And there are various ways of interpreting it.

What's Warren done that's progressive? Ignore any non-progressive bits, any slip ups, just focus on "good things" in a lopsided manner.

Now, what's Biden done that's progressive? Make up the list in the same way.

Now, which list is longer, Warren's or Biden's?

I'm betting Biden's. Whatever he did in the '70s might easily be balanced by what he did in the 2010s.

Another completely and no more or less fair would be to look over all the accomplishments, assign a "progressive mark" to each and average them. On that ranking, Biden might be lower. Then again, it might be averaging 200 things over 45 years, where standards have been constantly changing, versus 3 in the last two years.

It's the kind of question that can only be met with a request for clarification or which ends in pointless wrangling.

[pnwmom]

10. What has she done? How about the Consumer Protection Agency?

Her lifetime Senate voting record on progressive issues, according to Progressive Punch, is over 99%.

http://www.progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

When Biden was in the Senate his record was much more moderate -- and that's part of why Obama chose him: to help balance the ticket and attract white working class voters.

[OilemFirchen]

14. For most of the time Biden was in the Senate...

Warren was a Republican.

Did Biden vote for Reagan? Nope.

Did Warren? She won't say.

[pnwmom]

17. During the period of time when they were BOTH in the Senate, her record was much more progressive.nt

[karynnj]

36. Warren won election in 2012

There is no overlap with Biden.

Biden was a centrist Democrat for his entire career. I agree that Warren is more progressive as are many of his opponents.

[emulatorloo]

79. DU'ers told me in 2004 that Kerry was a "centrist Democrat". Tired of the label

especially as it has devolved to mean “anybody not named Sanders”

I agree with your assessment that Warren etc are to the left of Biden.

but I’ll note I have read these statements on DU in the last month:

— Warren voted for Reagan, and to this day her policies are the same as Reagan’s.
— Harris is a “centrist”
— Beto is a Republican (or a “centrist”) in the pocket of big oil (based on Sirota’s lying about OpenSecret’s data.

All of those are falsehoods, so yeah I am tired of the label. Just a general rant here, definitely has nothing to do with your post.



Thanks for noting Warren and Biden did not overlap in the Senate

As always great to see you around.

[karynnj]

81. I so agree with you on these labels

Kerry through his career was clearly a liberal, but on trade he was never a protectionist. He was someone willing to listen to the economists and saw that globalization and automation were the issue. Trade deals needed provisions that protected workers rights and the environment.

He was good on issues that dealt with helping people in need. He was the sponsor for several Congresses of a bill that in (I think) 2007 or 2008, helped fund additional affordable housing. He was always strongly supporting things like food stamps, LIHEAP( which subsidizes heating costs of the poor.) He has spoken of income inequality since at least 1992. He was the most liberal member of the Finance committee that - with the HELP committee - created Obamacare - and it was his reinsurance provision that Rubio defunded causing costs to soar - showing why it was a great idea.

As to centrist, he - from his first days as a Senator, was extremely strong on women's rights - and when in the prosecutor's office in MA, he both hired a large number of women layers and got a grant to have one of the first (or the first) program in a prosecutor's office for rape victims. He spoke on the Senate floor against closing the Thomas hearings without hearing from the other women. He also had 100% from both the HRC and civil rights groups. On all of these civil rights issues he was unusually good.

Kerry also fought things like Iran/Contra when it was dangerous to do so -- especially for a person with Presidential ambition.

On the environment, he had the best lifetime record in the Senate when he ran. As Secretary of State, he was instrumental to getting to the Paris Accord and he started the "Our Oceans" international conferences which have now had 5 conferences and there are counties committed to holding the next several.

Well so much for someone NOT running.

I think "progressive" has come to mean anything from "a candidate I like" to anyone against trade deals. I would say that the person I would say could be a model of "progressive" is Sherrod Brown. Sanders is a Democratic socialist - which on some issues overlaps.

If I were Biden, I would directly address that he really changed from a relatively conservative Democrat - on segregation, women's issues, and supporting terrible bankruptcy bills. He needs to make a virtue of changing when he realizes that it is the right thing to do. He can argue that his changes have all been in the same direction - so it is NOT following the wind, which over that time went both ways. He absolutely should not be claiming to be the most "progressive". The reason I described Kerry is that he provides a person - one year younger - who was always consistently to Biden's left -- and as you noted he has been labeled a centrist. Even in his last years in the Senate, he was never in the left most half of Democratic Senators.

I suspect that Booker and Klobuchar are slightly to Biden's left. I have a hard time placing Harris because an AG does not make policy and she has only been in the Senate since 2016 - and for the first 2 years all Democrats voted about the same - against whatever Trump did.

I don't yet have any real substantive idea as to what Beto's real values, policies, or record is. So much written about him seems to be on completely irrelevant things. I really don't care anymore that he can skate board than I cared that Kerry could windsurf.)

I would say that Warren is a good government person who wants mechanisms to insure that people are treated fairly by banks, big business and the government. She also has the strongest plan to address income inequality - which goes after assets as well as income. Rather than any label, I think she values fairness.

[emulatorloo]

82. Thanks for the long reply. We are pretty much on the same page when it comes to 2020

candidates.

Kerry would have made a great President. I don’t believe we would be in the mess we are in now if he had won in ‘04. I had the priveledge to hear him speak several times in 04, I found him to be a fiery and charismatic speaker.

Yes agreed on Brown, was hoping he would get in. But maybe we have too many good candidates as it is.

If Biden and his advisors have any sense they will frame it as you say. He can point to a record to that backs it up.

Yes Warren has a great record, and her policy proposals so far have been top notch.

I usually support the most left candidate in the primary. But I am looking at different criteria this time. Can the candidate plainly articulate why Democratic policy can lift our country up after the disaster Republicans have brought us. Who is tough, can push back hard on Trump bullying tactics and get under his skin. Right now I see a lot of that in both Warren and Biden.

Have a number of candidates on my short list. I probably won’t decide until after a few debates.

[aikoaiko]

9. He'll say that he evolved.

[marylandblue]

11. He's muddying his message and I don't think it will work.

He's considered a moderate. He doesn't tick certain progressive boxes and his voters don't want him to. If they wanted that, they would be Sanders or Warren voters. So he should just say he's a "sensible progressive," or "he gets things done" and not try to pretend he's someone else.

[R B Garr]

12. Not really, I heard it as he knew was going to be muddied, and

he was saying he has a longer record to look at than the few items that are being thrown at him, all in this thread even — four items.

[WeekiWater]

13. It really can be difined in numerous ways.

In the manner in which you are thinking about it, he isn’t even close. But campaigns are about image and the candidates will work to create their own. Sometimes it doesn’t match history.

[OilemFirchen]

15. He's an old-school progressive.

From way back before the term meant "reactionary".

Me too.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

16. LOL.

Too true.

[pnwmom]

18. Old school progressives didn't usually lead campaigns against school busing. n/t

[CrossingTheRubicon]

20. Which self-styled "progressives" are running on bringing back 70s-style forced bussing?

None. It was a failed remedy that would, in time, have destroyed public education.

In wasn't popular in any quarter. Taking harmful measures that destroy well-loved civic institutions like neighborhood schools isn't "progressive."

[pnwmom]

21. Old school progressives also didn't support the banking industry over people with onerous

student loans, to prevent them from ever being able to expunge them in bankruptcy proceedings.

And THAT is a continuing issue that will be coming up in future elections.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

22. Can I take the dodge of my question as a tacit admission that you concede the point?

Most old school progressives didn't register and vote as Republicans through 1996.

I'm very glad Elizabeth Warren saw the light and joined our team. She is very smart and a great asset to our party, whatever her past affiliations with the GOP.

[pnwmom]

24. Can I take the dodge of my question as a tacit admission that you concede the point

that while they were in the Senate, EW's record was more progressive than JB's?

[R B Garr]

25. Why would Biden have to be constrained by Warren's

time in the Senate?

[pnwmom]

30. Because their years of public service are the only part of their record that matters. n/t

[R B Garr]

42. They both haven't served the exact same time/years. nt

[pnwmom]

45. Elizabeth Warren never introduced a bill like the Civil Forfeitures act, Biden's bill,

or the laws that prevent people with student loan debt from expunging it through bankruptcy -- also pushed by Biden.

She did, however, get the Consumer Protection agency through Congress.

Progressive Punch gives her over a 99% score over all her years in the Senate.

They overlapped for 4 years and Biden's record was not as progressive, even during that time.

[R B Garr]

48. Biden has more to his record than the 4 items you

keep pushing. Edit, and as someone else noted, Warren was a Republican until her late 40’s.

[pnwmom]

51. If you read the MSNBC article in the OP, there are more than 4 items. He was considered to be

balancing Obama's ticket, by appealing to more white, centrist voters.

He says he has the "most progressive" record of the contenders. That's just not true.

[R B Garr]

54. Actually, there are about 4 actual voted on items. The rest

are talking points.

[pnwmom]

55. How is he the most progressive, given even those 4 items? How could the most progressive

Democrat have written the civil asset forfeiture bill he wrote, allowing police to seize people's HOMES without even an indictment?

You have a strange definition of progressive.

[R B Garr]

56. Progressive isn't just what Justice Democrats, Brand New Congress

and Out Revolution dictates. Who are you to throw people under the bus about who is progressive or not. This is the same 4 items that keep getting spammed, but lucky for you, someone dropped another one for you.

In the meantime, Biden never voted for Reagan.

Edit:look at Wiki for a quick look at Biden’s record, labor unions, etc. zThere is way more than 4 to 5 votes.....

[pnwmom]

57. Biden affected many more lives with his civil asset forfeiture bill than EW, as a private citizen,

casting her single vote for President. He was in a positive to write legislation. She was just one citizen among hundreds of millions.

And I've been watching Biden for decades -- he first ran for President in 1988. My opinions on his moderate/centrist views were formed long before Justice Democrats came along.

[R B Garr]

59. There are stories of Warren flipping foreclosed

homes. I won’t link to them, but they are out there. How is profiting on distressed homes congruent with being a consumer protections czar?? It’s not.

And you said it—“watching for decades”. Biden and many others were operating in the times they were living in. Just a quick look at his Wiki shows there is much more to his record than 4 to 5 spammed votes/bills. Biden is very well liked.

[pnwmom]

60. The houses that she bought had already been lost to foreclosure before she purchased them.

She can't be blamed for that. She didn't write a bill that caused them to be foreclosed on. Instead, she went to Congress and wrote the Consumer Protection act.

Biden was also "operating in the time" he lived in during the Anita Hill hearings -- when he let her down, let millions of American women down, and helped put Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court. If he hadn't refused to call her three corroborating witnesses, history could have been changed.

[R B Garr]

62. She profited on distressed properties. Who else did that?

We know who did.

Anita Hill was decades ago.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

67. Adding to the demand side for foreclosed properties only incentivized banks to

seize more homes knowing they could profit from those foreclosures.

I sure don't recall Joe Biden ever flipping distressed properties.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

29. Not a bit. First Joe Biden's career isn't limited to the Senate as he as VP

during one of the greatest Democratic Administrations in our history, but he also accomplished more during his long tenure.

Biden was a liberal force in the Senate for two decades before Ms Warren even joined our party, much less ran for office.

I’m very glad she saw the error of her ways. But she’s late to the party.

Again, I need the note that you dodged the question.

[pnwmom]

49. Vice Presidents don't write or vote on legislation. n/t

[CrossingTheRubicon]

50. So? They still influence policy and can have a real world impact advancing progress.

Which is the point.

[pnwmom]

52. Please give a single concrete example of how he advanced progress as V.P.,

and explain why you think this makes him the "most progressive" of the possible Presidential contenders, despite his long, moderate Senate record.

[ucrdem]

58. Gun control, PPACA, to begin with

Biden worked hard on both issues and was the frontman for the Obama-Biden gun control act which unfortunately didn't make it into law. He also advocated strenuously for the ACA and helped with the very tricky negotiations with religious schools and hospitals over the abortion provisions.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Joe_Biden_Gun_Control.htm

https://www.npr.org/2017/03/22/521115738/still-a-big-deal-biden-defends-threatened-affordable-care-act-for-anniversary

[CrossingTheRubicon]

68. Yep, he also led the Administration to openly support marriage equality.

[R B Garr]

72. Sen. Coons from Delaware was on This Week this morning

and really hit it out of the park about Biden’s accomplishments. Phone typing so I can’t link. Just watched it now from a recording, or I would have tried to link it earlier — waited to watch the political shows til hubby got home. It’s a great segment.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

73. I agree. I caught that myself live.

[emulatorloo]

78. Indeed he did. His statement apparently forced Obama's hand from what I have read.

Obama wasn’t ready to announce his support for same-sex marriage yet.

[Celerity]

46. plus 1 million

[dalton99a]

47. +1. His 2005 bankruptcy "reform" effectively enslaved millions of Americans to the banks for life

[OilemFirchen]

23. That's certainly a blemish in his past.

Surprisingly, though, retrospectively he was correct.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

32. Not a blemish. He looked past the orthodoxy of the left and saw a remedy

that was failing all the parties involved.

There are good reasons why no “progressives” today are running on a platform of bringing back forced bussing.

[OilemFirchen]

33. It's a blemish.

I conceded that he was correct. Sadly, his foresight will be overshadowed by an intransigent streak running through at least some of the current Democratic Party electorate, one which demands atonement for past actions - perceived as misdeeds despite the benefit of hindsight.

Note, BTW, that this only applies to so-called "establishment" candidates - those with an actual record to be scrutinized. The conversation about Sen. Warren in this thread should prove a useful example.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

43. If being correct on an issue is a "blemish" then I'll back Scarface.

It shows statesmanship to go against the crown when the crowd is wrong.

That's the sort of interior strength I'm looking for in a leader. Anyone can promise pie-in-the-sky.

A leader says no to BS, even when it seems to be the flavor of the moment.

[still_one]

63. There are plenty of issues to debate against Biden, but I wouldn't use bussing. Bussing was a

disaster

However, Here is Biden's record, and it is progressive


http://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm

[JI7]

27. maybe he means actually getting things done which includes 2008 and 2012 elections

[Otto Lidenbrock]

28. Biden's candidacy is a tale of generational changes

When Biden was elected for the first time in the early 1970s it was still common for democrats to walk back on how liberal they were in order to gain the trust of an older, more conservative vote.

The usual thing to say was support the civil rights movement and be liberal on equal opportunity, but fiscally conservative regarding social programs and the extent of government outreach.

Those old voters a young Biden courted are now long deceased. Biden himself is now at the age of those people in the 1970s and now generally America has become more liberal, young Americans and young voters are more engaged at all levels, and the Democratic Party grassroots is no longer interested in bending to a whim of bipartisanship when the other side can go to the extremes at their will.

A young Biden was trying to tell old people he was not too liberal. An old Biden is trying to tell young people he is very liberal.

A young Biden didn't have a record to point to so he had an advantage of being taken by his word. An old Biden has a long record so he has a disadvantage of it being dissected to the nth degree.

I am interested to see how he handles this.

[crazycatlady]

41. And many would argue that we're now at a time of generational change

[comradebillyboy]

31. Perhaps he's misinformed?

[Doodley]

34. 8 years as Obama's right-hand man is enough for me. The Obama/Biden ticket delivered real progress.

[still_one]

64. Biden is progressive on most of the issues

http://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm

While I have my preference for who I would like to see as our nominee, when it actually comes time for me to vote in the primary, one of my major criteria will be who I think stands the best chance of beating trump and the republicans in 2020

I don't know who that is right now, but one thing I am convinced of, we don't have the luxury losing in 2020, and whoever are candidate is, he or she must be able to win some red or purple states, or we will not win

[BlueMTexpat]

35. Joe is not now

and never will be among my top preferences, however he tries to style himself.

He was excellent in combination with Prez O. But he is not the thinker that Barack Obama is and alone, never could be.

For me, his work and influence at getting Clarence Thomas - up to that time, the least-qualified Supreme Court nominee ever - confirmed to the US Supreme Court and his failure - even today - to apologize to Anita Hill for the way she was treated at the time are MAJOR red flags.

I do not believe that he really ever learned any lesson from those experiences. If he did, it wasn't the right one.

Finally, the way he has been so coyly sitting on the fence for months now is a REAL turn-off.

While I am and will remain firmly committed to supporting the eventual Dem nominee, whoever that person may be, I believe that we have MUCH better options than Joe Biden. Or SBS, for that matter.

It's time to bow out gracefully.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Don't forget civil asset forfeiture

How a Young Joe Biden Became the Architect of the Government's Asset Forfeiture Program

A tale of the War on Drugs, Joe Biden, Bill Weld, and how civil asset forfeiture came to be.


https://fee.org/articles/how-a-young-joe-biden-became-the-architect-of-the-governments-asset-forfeiture-program/

The Drug War became a contest of political one-upmanship. Reagan’s Justice Department fought for all kinds of new powers. Attorney General Edwin Meese and his Assistant Attorney General William Weld (yes, that Bill Weld) railed against the limitations on their legal prerogative. Weld went so far as to argue in favor of the legality of using the Air Force to shoot suspected drug-smuggling planes out of the sky, a policy that even his boss was unwilling to endorse.

With this law, federal agents had nearly unlimited powers to seize assets from private citizens.
But Meese, Weld, and everyone else seemed to agree that forfeiture laws didn’t go nearly far enough. By requiring an indictment, the government still had to meet some standard of reasonable guilt before seizing property, which allowed far too many criminals that law enforcement knew to be guilty (but couldn’t build a case against) to keep their ill-gotten gains.

To take things further, the Justice Department argued that law enforcement should be allowed to take “substitute” property; they knew they wouldn’t be able to take everything that was paid for with drug money, so it stood to reason that they should be able to take legally acquired assets of equal value (however that was determined). And finally, with real estate off limits, the government was unable to seize marijuana farms, drug warehouses, and criminal homes.

Enter New Legislation

The Comprehensive Forfeiture Act fixed all of these problems. The new bill was introduced by Senator Joe Biden in 1983 and it was signed into law the next year. With this law, federal agents had nearly unlimited powers to seize assets from private citizens. Now the government only needed to find a way to let local and state police join the party.

This came with the 1984 Comprehensive Crime Control Act. In addition to a slew of new powers for prosecutors, the burden of proof for asset seizure was lowered once again (agents had to only believe that what they were seizing was equal in value to money believed to have been purchased from drug sales). More significantly, the bill started the “equitable sharing” program that allowed local and state law enforcement to retain up to 80 percent of the assets seized.

[pnwmom]

39. Thank you. I didn't know this, and this is very important. I've added this to the OP. nt

[dalton99a]

53. +1. Another barbaric act against the poor and minorities

[Autumn]

65. Because he's gaffe prone. nt

[Turin_C3PO]

69. I don't know.

He’s my leading choice (as of now) but I view him more as a centrist, really. He’s certainly progressive on many issues but he’s not the most liberal candidate running.

[pnwmom]

70. Exactly. And a more moderate candidate could actually help in getting Independents

and never Trumpers.

It seems strange that he would be pushing his progressive bona-fides so hard, and that people here would be outraged on his behalf.

[Turin_C3PO]

71. Right now I'm backing Biden

because I think he could pull a few Indies away from Trump. But he needs to play to a “moderate” image, IMO. I, personally, disagree with a lot of his past actions and am open to changing my mind in the primary.

[pnwmom]

74. That's sort of where I am. He might actually win by playing toward his more moderate past.

But I'm not thrilled with it and don't think he's as progressive as he wants to appear now.

[Gothmog]

75. Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available

[emulatorloo]

76. I get it. You hate Biden. The majority of Democrats don't agree

He has been a public servant a long time and he made some terrible mistakes. In the long haul he’s learned and grown and done a lot of good.

As a presidential candidate he’d be very affective. Explain in plain language how Democratic policies would lift the country up. He’s quick on his feet and a fighter, his sarcasm would punch Trump in the gut.

As President he’d hit the ground running.

Not my first choice but I am going to push back on any DU effort to “Hillary” Joe Biden.

[Mike Nelson]

77. Because...

… he needs to win the Primary contest... that means he has play up being Progressive.