Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumAre Biden's Opponents Being Too Coy In Making Age An Issue?
I agree with Nate that the emphasis on Biden's so-called gaffes are merely disguised attacks on Biden's age.
Link to tweet
This strategy might even work! Its still fairly early, and Bidens age is perhaps his biggest risk factor bigger, in my view, than his policy positions, which are often more in line with the views of the average Democrat than those of the more liberal candidates.
But especially in the era of Trump who, of course, has already begun to question Bidens mental fitness there might also be something to be said for saying the quiet part out loud. In a poll conducted shortly after the first debate, a lot of Democratic voters explicitly used Swalwells pass the torch language when asked an open-ended question about why they didnt want to vote for Biden.
And they were much more likely to explicitly mention Bidens age than to use vaguer responses, such as that he was out of touch.
Theres also risk to anti-Biden Democrats in drawing voters attention to gaffes or other incidents that voters view as relatively minor. Biden remains an extremely well-liked figure among Democratic voters; 75 percent of them have a favorable view of him, according to Morning Consults latest polling. So three-quarters of the electorate is going to start with a predilection against sympathizing with critiques of Biden. If those critiques arent really bringing the goods and instead seem like petty grievances, those Democrats may conclude that the case against Biden is a lot of hot air.
Meanwhile, if the false alarms continue Democrats on Twitter or on podcasts predict Bidens demise and the polls are unmoved the media may come to view Biden as a Trump-like teflon candidate who isnt greatly affected by gaffes and scandals. That could reduce their appetite for covering them in the future even if more serious ones occur than whats taken place to date.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FBaggins
(26,757 posts)He's been gaffe-prone his entire career. There's no reason to assume that they're age-related.
He age is still a factor... but an independent one.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,028 posts)also smearing Warren and Sanders with this ageist argument.
That takes out our three strongest candidates, which is absolutely insane.
It also offends their supporters, which is absolutely insane.
Insane if we want to win, that is.
It's the equivalent of kneecapping Tom Brady before the Super Bowl because you think he really should retire and the second string quarterback might do better.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)And, in general, women seem to age better than men and live longer.
When you are in your 70's, 6 or 7 years is a LOT.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,028 posts)of Alzheimer's than men have. Among the factors I've seen mentioned for that is that men who get past their 60s tend to be in very good health, or they'd have succumbed to heart trouble earlier.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)You made a good point about Alzheimer's disease, recent studies are suggesting a sex related link to Alzheimers's disease that impacts SOME women (who carry a particular variant of the APoE gene) more, but failed to recognize that women are more resilient than men to age related cognitive decline in general:
Previous research has shown that aging affects cognitive ability, and that subtle sex differences in cognition exist across the lifespan. A recent observational study by Dr. Anna C. McCarrey and colleagues in NIAs Intramural Research Program showed that cognitive ability in some, but not all, domains declines at a steeper rate for men than for women.
NIA researchers followed participants in the Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging up to nine years on average. Participants ranged in age from 50 to 96, and were free of cognitive impairment throughout the course of the study. Participants periodically took memory and other cognitive tests that assessed mental status, visuospatial ability, verbal learning and memory, perceptuomotor speed and integration, and other cognitive skills.
Initially, men outperformed women on the two tests of visuospatial ability, and women did better than men on several other cognitive tests. Men showed overall steeper rates of cognitive decline in areas of mental status, perceptuomotor speed and integration, and visuospatial ability. None of the measures showed significantly steeper declines for women. This suggests that women have a greater resilience to age-related cognitive decline than do men.
The researchers note that societal changes may contribute to these sex differences as they have resulted in greater improvements in cognitive stimulation, financial prosperity, and health for women. In addition, sex differences in cognitive aging may be affected by differences in brain structure and function, which tend to show more favorable outcomes for women at advanced ages. Further research is needed to link longitudinal brain changes to cognition in older men and women.
Reference: Sex Differences in Cognitive Trajectories in Clinically Normal Older Adults. Anna C. McCarrey, Yang An, Melissa H. Kitner-Triolo, Luigi Ferrucci, and Susan M. Resnick. Psychology and Aging. 2016 Apr 13; 31(2):166-175. doi: 10.1037/pag0000070.
https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/age-related-cognitive-decline-women-are-more-resilient-men
And recent studies counter the Sex-linked APO4E gene variant( which roughly 20% of the population has) argument regarding Alzheimer's:
"Interestingly, a recent analysis of numerous studies across the world did not find that the prevalence of Alzheimer's was significantly higher in women than in men after controlling for sex differences in longevity [6]."
Age is the major risk factor for Alzheimer's disease, and women on average live longer than men. However, longevity alone does not fully explain why two-thirds of Alzheimer's patients are women. Even after taking into account the difference in longevity, some studies have suggested that women are still at a higher risk [2].
Results varied though based on when and where the studies were carried out, and gender differences in educational and occupational opportunities may also have contributed to these mixed results [3]. Less education (e.g., none or primary school only) is associated with increased dementia risk, while higher levels of cognitive activity at mid- or late-life are linked to delayed onset of cognitive impairment [4][5]. Interestingly, a recent analysis of numerous studies across the world did not find that the prevalence of Alzheimer's was significantly higher in women than in men after controlling for sex differences in longevity [6]. Greater educational and occupational attainment for women in the past few decades may be closing the gap in dementia incidence between women and men [7]. But unless sex differences in longevity diminish, women will continue to make up a large proportion of Alzheimer's patients.
https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/how-does-alzheimers-affect-women-and-men-differently
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Maybe you can explain to me why anyone would listen to trump and explain to me what Coyfefe is ?
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Perhaps it would be best, for now, to focus on that.
if you do not feel that Biden's verbal blunders will effect his chance of winning the nomination, I respect that.
But please respect other people, like me, when they say the verbal blunders will be a factor in the primaries if they keep happening regularly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)I want to beat trump and Joe is the best bet to do so
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)But to beat Trump, Joe must win the nomination first.
In my opinion, the best way he could do that is to cut way back on the number of verbal blunders, those feed into the "he's too old" press narrative.
Best of luck to you and your candidate! We will all be voting blue, no matter who in 2020.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Time will tell. I am in the camp that is worried about Warren https://politicalwire.com/2019/08/15/many-democrats-worried-about-warren/
Interviews with more than three dozen Democratic voters and activists in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina this summer, at events for Ms. Warren as well as other 2020 hopefuls, yield a similar array of concerns about her candidacy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)From todays A Rated Fox News Poll:
So take heart, more than one Democrat can beat Trump head to head. I expect those numbers to get better for all our Democratic candidates over the next several months.
Again, good luck!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Link to tweet
-- FOR EXAMPLE: Take MEDICARE FOR ALL. When asked about supporting Medicare for All, and hearing it described as guaranteed health care coverage regardless of income, and every Americans health insurance would come from a single government-run plan, 41% favor it, 55% oppose and 4% are unsure. When Republicans start describing it as causing doctor shortages, longer wait times for urgent care and delays in access to the latest drugs for cancer and other serious diseases, the numbers move to 34% favor and 60% oppose.
-- THE GREEN NEW DEAL is actually above water when described as a plan that would work to address climate change and income inequality, and transition the United States from an economy built on fossil fuels to one driven by clean energy. 48% favor, 46% oppose and 7% are unsure.
IT SINKS when Republicans start describing it as potentially costing 93 trillion dollars and hiking energy bills by $3,000. It goes then to 32% support and 61% oppose. Polling memo Poll deck
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Link to tweet
What I think has happened in the Democratic primary is people recognize that some of the concerns about single-payer are not coming from special interests but the public, said Neera Tanden, a former top aide to Hillary Clinton and now president of the Center for American Progress. (A government-run health system is sometimes called a single-payer system.)....
Now some Democrats warn of the perils for their party in taking a position that, to important groups of voters, could seem just as disruptive as the GOPs push to kill the ACA.
There is nothing more personal to people than their health care, said Kathleen Sebelius, who consulted on Harriss plan and served as health and human services secretary in the Obama administration. Anything that calls for the vast majority of Americans to lose what they have thats a very dangerous place to start a conversation.....
Other surveys have found less support. About 8 in 10 Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents in a Pew poll in July said the federal government has a responsibility to ensure health coverage, but less than half said it should be through a single government plan.
And in a July poll of Iowa voters by CBS News/YouGov, two-thirds of Democrats said they preferred a government health program that competed with private insurance, compared with 34 percent who favored one that replaced private insurance entirely.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)This is nice to see https://politicalwire.com/2019/08/15/biden-still-holds-solid-lead-nationally/
Everyone of the four frontrunners beats President Trump in general election match ups.
The leaders are followed by Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, and Andrew Yang stand at 3% apiece, and Amy Klobuchar and Beto ORourke are each at 2%.
I really love any poll that has sanders under 15%
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Overview
Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) is the stage between the expected cognitive decline of normal aging and the more serious decline of dementia. It can involve problems with memory, language, thinking and judgment that are greater than normal age-related changes.
If you have mild cognitive impairment, you may be aware that your memory or mental function has "slipped." Your family and close friends also may notice a change. But these changes aren't severe enough to significantly interfere with your daily life and usual activities.
Mild cognitive impairment may increase your risk of later developing dementia caused by Alzheimer's disease or other neurological conditions. But some people with mild cognitive impairment never get worse, and a few eventually get better.
Symptoms
Your brain, like the rest of your body, changes as you grow older. Many people notice gradually increasing forgetfulness as they age. It may take longer to think of a word or to recall a person's name.
But consistent or increasing concern about your mental performance may suggest mild cognitive impairment (MCI). Cognitive issues may go beyond what's expected and indicate possible MCI if you experience any or all of the following:
You forget important events such as appointments or social engagements.
You lose your train of thought or the thread of conversations, books or movies.
You feel increasingly overwhelmed by making decisions, planning steps to accomplish a task or understanding instructions.
You start to have trouble finding your way around familiar environments.
You become more impulsive or show increasingly poor judgment.
Your family and friends notice any of these changes.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mild-cognitive-impairment/symptoms-causes/syc-20354578
And of course we must consider the INDIVIDUAL when it comes to aging and its effects.
Do you think ANY of the candidates exhibit these signs of mild cognitive impairment?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Biden needs to win the nomination FIRST against fellow Democrats.
Doesn't he?
If he continues to make verbal blunders his chances of winning the nomination will be effected.
Saying WHATABOUT TRUMP in itself will not convince Democrats that Biden should be our nominee in 2020.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Using this amusing but bogus gaffe issue will not change that
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)It's about equal
Incidence of dementia: does gender make a difference?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11445258
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Women do live longer, but not according to some here lol.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,412 posts)Not enough really care enough about age to make it an issue, just the single digit dwellers trying to stand out maybe.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elocs
(22,597 posts)It is not a deal breaker, but it is an issue and not just concerning Biden.
Now if Biden were to demonstrate he could gain control of his gaffes and memory glitches (yes, that happens when you get old) and appear presidential like the speech he gave the other week, I'm sure myself and others would feel much better about it.
But rather than making all the anecdotal comments on how our grandmother was as sharp as a tack at age 97 why not be honest about how old age can impact a person?
Being president is a hard and stressful job even for a comparatively young person. Just look how much Obama outwardly aged in his 8 years in office and he was a relatively young man.
What will that do to a much older president
I expect any Democratic president to have a competent cabinet and staff regardless of their age, but I'm voting for the person in the primary and not their potential staff.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)That's the real question.
Is Biden's continued string of gaffes and verbal blunders "being as sharp as a tack"?
Honestly, if it continues at the rate so far, people will start to think that Joe is not "as sharp as a tack".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elocs
(22,597 posts)would certainly be memory lapses, not recognizing people and verbal blunders that you did not make when younger.
I'm a senior citizen and to be honest, it's not just the same as when I was younger and that's true of most people.
If Biden's gaffes are just a learned habit then he should be able to unlearn them and if being elected president is not incentive enough to change I don't know what would be.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Is Biden's continued string of gaffes and verbal blunders "being as sharp as a tack"?
Without objective numbers relevant to all candidates, the "gaffe" thing is merely a bucket of chum being thrown at the wall in the hope some of it sticks.
So then allow the data. Allow us the contrasts and comparisons predicated on objective numbers of gaffes/misstatements per candidate in the Primary campaign season and cite the peer-reviewed sources the data is pulled from.
Or else... keep throwing. It's a big wall, I imagine some of it may actually hit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Biden's so-called gaffes will not be an issue in the general election https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/democrats-battle-each-other-trump-s-greatest-ally-time-n1042191#anchor-Whatabouthisgaffes
Thats a lot of people back there for a like an 11 oclock speech. Thats a lot of people. (Laughter.) Thats a lot. (In fact, the speech was after 2:00 pm ET.)
This Shell petrochemical plant in Beaver County, Pennsylvania I did very well here. We did very well. How many points did we win by? Does anybody know? I'll tell you. Isn't it, I think, 28 points?
That's a lot. (Trump won Beaver County by 19 points in 2016.)
I got sued on a thing called emoluments. Emoluments. You ever hear the word? Nobody ever heard of it before. They went back. Now, nobody looks at Obama getting $60 million for a book. (Obama signed his book deal in 2017, after leaving office.)
Trumps two and a half years in office definitely have changed the political and media world.
Shouldnt they also change how we cover gaffes and misstatements?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Doesn't he?
Will Biden's verbal blunders effect his chances of winning the nomination? Probably. How much depends on how often the blunders occur and their severity,
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)A lot of rank-and-file voters do have concerns about Bidens age. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll in February found that 62 percent of voters had reservations about voting for someone aged 75 or older. Other polls have also shown advanced age to be a concern among Democrats, Republicans and independents alike.
But there hasnt been much discussion of age from the other candidates. Eric Swalwell brought it up explicitly in the first presidential debate, when he urged voters to pass the torch to a new generation of Americans. Rather than echo Swalwells argument, however, Kamala Harris tried to defuse the situation by suggesting that discussions of age and generational change were tantamount to schoolyard insults. America does not want to witness a food fight, they want to know how we are going to put food on their table, she said."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Link to tweet
Besides, we make demands of politicians that no ordinary person would be able to satisfy. I can promise you that if I hired a team of people to follow you around for a week (let alone a year) recording every word that came out of your mouth, there would be some things youd want to take back.
When a theme like Joe Biden, gaffe machine gets locked in, it becomes a frame through which the media view the events of the campaign, leading to profoundly different standards by which each candidate is judged. In its most twisted form, you get something like the 2000 election, in which reporters decided that Al Gore was a liar and George W. Bush was dumb, the consequence of which was that Bush could lie without reporters taking any particular notice even as they pored over every word that left Gores mouth to see if under some interpretation it strayed from perfect factual accuracy.
As a similar kind of frame takes hold in this election, other candidates will be allowed to say something unintentionally offensive, garble a URL or otherwise misspeak, with only mild punishment. But when Biden does it, the alarms will go off, and the keyboards will begin clacking.
The cynical expectation is that whether its right or not, the gaffe coverage will probably continue: Biden will keep saying cringe-worthy things, and the news media will continue to treat them as newsworthy. And much of Bidens appeal to Democratic voters is about electability, its own bit of campaign pathology that no one should waste time on.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)"A lot of rank-and-file voters do have concerns about Bidens age."
Trying to figure out why this OP was even posted. Honestly, it seems to open the door for people to question how Biden is aging.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)The title of the thread is very misleading
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Link to tweet
As Waldman also wrote, Trump is waging a reelection campaign based on racism and fear, not to mention being the most prolific liar in American political history (he just passed 12,000 false or misleading claims). And what makes the focus on Bidens mouth extra aggravating is how it wipes our memories of the moronic things said by this president, as my follower @absolut_irish was so kind to remind Bidens critics.
Link to tweet
Some of these are funny. Some are worthy of a cocked eyebrow. But they are not nearly as consequential as the racist and white supremacist beliefs parroted by Trump and the right-wing echo chamber that found their way into the manifesto of the suspect in the El Paso mass shooting, who told police his target was "Mexicans. The atmosphere of menace and danger is now indisputable. Your time would be better spent worrying about the shredding of our values, ideals and the rule of law than the flubs of a particular candidate who would put an end to this shameful chapter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Link to tweet
He is every bit as sharp as he was 31 years ago. I havent seen any change, Kassell said. I can tell you with absolute certainty that he had no brain damage, either from the hemorrhage or from the operations that he had. There was no damage whatsoever....
When you hear somebody on TV and they make a mistake during a speech or a debate, youve got to cut them some slack, Olshansky said. If youve ever given a speech, its not easy standing in front of a crowd of people especially standing in front of television cameras with millions of people watching and avoiding verbal mistakes.
Bidens physician, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, said in a statement provided by the campaign that Vice President Biden is in excellent physical condition. He is more than capable of handling the rigors of the campaign and the office for which he is running.
Kassell, who performed brain surgery on Biden, went a step further: I am going to vote for the candidate who I am absolutely certain has a brain that is functioning. And that narrows it down exactly to one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Link to tweet
How Democrats see such episodes is at the heart of the Democratic primary. One side views these sorts of typical Biden campaign-trail moments as evidence of a politician well past his prime casually sexist in a way that might have gone unremarked in, say, 1973 when he first joined the Senate. His supporters see them as good examples of why hes the lovable Democrat best-suited to beat Trump. What is clear is that the critics, who are louder and more visible online and on cable TV, have had absolutely no impact on changing Bidens status as the steady front-runner in the race.
This woke-working class divide is at the heart of the most salient fact about the Democratic primaries: Nothing has damaged Biden. Biden entered the race with about 30 percent support nationally and he has that same 30 percent today.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Some of the ones who now try to smear Biden because of his age are also the ones who were most upset when their particular favorite candidate was also called-out on his (or her) age. Interesting, no?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elocs
(22,597 posts)so if Biden's gaffes are caused by age, they will increase.
If not, then they are just part of who he is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Attacking Joe Biden's age is sad
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elocs
(22,597 posts)that you don't get stronger, faster, smarter, and with a better memory when you get older. It's not an unreasonable concern about Biden's gaffes when he seems to be able to change his behavior when it comes to unwanted touching but not misspeaking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Attacking Senator Biden is really sad
Biden spent 90+ minutes with a group of African American reporters and had no issues
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elocs
(22,597 posts)But you seem very, very defensive about it when there are questions about Biden's age.
Are we supposed to be comforted by claiming he has been gaffe prone for decades and apparently is helpless to do anything about it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)BTW, I will be having lunch with him tomorrow. I will check for signs of advance age
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Joe is very well equipped to take on trump the bully
Link to tweet
Trump is a bully, and Joe has been standing up to bullies his entire life, Owens said in an interview. Joes stuttering, I think, is one of the principal reasons a major, major, major reason that he is the good and compassionate and kind man that he is.
About 3 million Americans suffer from the speech impediment of stuttering, marked by involuntary repetition of sounds, syllables or words. According to the National Institute on Deafness and other Communication Disorders, most children outgrow their stutter, but for 25% of them, stuttering is a lifelong challenge.
Biden has overcome the serious stutter of his youth, but remnants of it resurface on occasions such as when he is very tired, he said in a 2016 speech. Experts on stuttering who follow him closely say they have noticed it on several occasions during the campaign, such as an interview on The View when he addressed complaints about his tendency to touch and hug women while campaigning, and an April speech in Pittsburgh launching his campaign, when he struggled with words.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DrFunkenstein
(8,745 posts)July 31, 2002, Biden stated, One thing is clear: These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam, or Saddam must be dislodged from power. If we wait for the danger from Saddam to become clear, it could be too late.
---
In 2007: "Everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them."
----
Scott Ritter, the former chief U.N. weapons inspector, just prior to the hearings: For Senator Bidens Iraq hearings to be anything more than a political sham used to invoke a modern-day Gulf of Tonkin resolution-equivalent for Iraq, his committee will need to ask hard questionsand demand hard factsconcerning the real nature of the weapons threat posed by Iraq.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided