Bernie Sanders can beat Trump

[Uncle Joe]

When trying to guess which candidate will be strongest against Donald Trump in 2020, you would be equally well-served by a dowsing rod, Ouija board, tea leaves, or deck of tarot cards as you would by the informed judgment of cable news pundits or political reporters. Yet polls show the Democratic primary electorate, apparently still scarred by Trump's surprise win in 2016, are attempting cast their own political yarrow stalks by lining up whoever has the best chance to win next year.

(snip)

Polls are obviously rather fluid at this early stage in the election cycle, but they're also the only data we have on how candidates would stack up against Trump in a head-to-head race. They have consistently shown Sanders ahead of Trump by about 5 points (while former vice president Joe Biden is ahead by about 8 points). Sanders' approval rating has also been consistently in the mid-50s, with disapproval in the high 30s. That is far, far better than either Trump's or Hillary Clinton's numbers in 2016.

(snip)

The point is that despite his shocking come-from-behind victory and awful carnage he has inflicted as president, Donald Trump is eminently beatable. Yet the Democratic base seems to be stuck in a terrified crouch, desperately playing amateur pundit to deny Trump a second term by any means necessary — as Biden supporters tell reporters. (Why anybody would trust pundit-style prognosticating, professional or otherwise, after that backfired disastrously in 2016 is beyond me, but that's a topic for another article.)

(snip)

America very badly needs a president who is not just another establishment stooge in thrall to plutocrats to undo the damage of Trump and 30 years of neoliberal corrosion. Turning back the clock to 2015 is not remotely good enough. America needs a stubborn, aggressive fighter, someone who will be as determined in protecting immigrants, minorities, and the poor as Trump is in harming them. Bernie Sanders could be that president — and all available data suggests he would be basically as strong as Biden against Trump. All Democratic voters have to do is shake off the Pundit Brain and go with the candidate whose record matches the party's stated values.

https://theweek.com/articles/858705/bernie-sanders-beat-trump

[still_one]

1. Too bad he needs to get the nomination to see if that is true

[HerbChestnut]

45. Same thing can be said for any of our candidates.

Thanks for pointing it out...

[still_one]

46. Absolutely. However, when a campaign hires people to high positions in that campaign who actively

worked to campaign against the Democratic nominee, that campaign has just sent a message to all those Democrats that supported the Democratic nominee, that we don't care whether we get your votes or not.

Whichever one of our candidates gets those votes, whether through an outright win, or a brokered convention, that candidate will be the Democratic nominee I suspect, because those voters represent a large percentage of Democrats

[MineralMan]

2. Maybe. But, Can He Beat Biden?

I think not.

[roody]

3. In a fair fight, yes.

[MineralMan]

4. Ah, so it's "rigged" again?

Ok, then. Real good, then.

[Botany]

5. "In a fair fight, yes."

Please, will he get Russian help again this time? aka the Russian produced meme/propaganda
Hillary and the DNC didn't play fair with me in the primaries.

It is time for Bernie to go away.

[George II]

6. How is the fight not fair?

[Botany]

8. "How is the fight not fair?"

Don't you understand that in 2016 having a Democrat, Hillary, winning the democratic party's
nomination wasn't fair. Russia amplified this meme to suppress the turn out of voters for HRC.

[Gothmog]

16. From the Washington Post-The GOP is giddy about running against a socialist

Link to tweet

Republicans are downright giddy about all this. What’s a scarier term to the American public than “socialist”? And with one of the leaders in the Democratic Party embracing it, their pitch to voters that Democrats want to radically change the country to something unrecognizable just got a lot easier.

“You add up things like packing the Supreme Court, getting rid of the electoral college, the Green New Deal and Medicare for none and you have a prescription of turning America into something it never has been and never should be,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said recently. “So we intend to be on the offense in running our races."

“We’re going into the war with some socialists,” Trump told a fundraiser in April.

This could be the defining debate of the 2020 election. Trump is so happy with that. Sanders is fine with that. The rest of the candidates aren’t so sure. But given the way this debate is shaping up, they may have no choice but to pick a side.

[trueblue2007]

19. In a fair fight, NO, are you insinuating Biden is not running a fair race. JOE IS HONORABLE !!1

he is a fair and honorable man !!!!


are you forgetting this?





https://giphy.com/gifs/obama-joe-biden-vp-l0EwYBmUnBQqsNSMg

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. Abso-fuckin-lutely!! Biden is fading fast... no surprise!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Drunken Irishman]

29. Can you point to where he's fading fast?

It certainly isn't in the polls...

[BannonsLiver]

43. Another knee slapper!

So you agree with the poster’s insinuation the primaries are rigged for Biden by the DNC? Speak up. Don’t be shy.

[uponit7771]

47. Yep, they're going to do it again. ... No doubt about it

[bahrbearian]

7. Of course not, Super Delegates

[Autumn]

9. I think so. nt

[thesquanderer]

14. I think we have numerous candidates who can beat Trump more easily than they can beat Biden. (nt)

[George II]

10. Disclaimer: This is in the "Opinion" section.

[TomCADem]

11. Ann Coulter Says Democrats Would 'Slaughter Trump' With Bernie Sanders's Anti-Immigration Position

In a Newsweek article, right wing extremist Ann Coulter said the same thing. Perhaps we should be worried given her reasons that Bernie also likes to scapegoat immigrants.

https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter-bernie-sanders-donald-trump-1352511

Conservative political commentator and author Ann Coulter on Tuesday said that Democrats would "slaughter" President Donald Trump in the 2020 election if they revived what she said were Bernie Sanders's "long forgotten" positions on immigration and workforce issues.

"If Dems revived Bernie Sanders' (long forgotten) pro-worker, anti-immigration position, they'd slaughter Trump," Coulter tweeted. "Now, who's the 'Stupid Party'?"

Coulter in her post quote tweeted conservative-leaning radio and television host Mark Simone, who wrote: "Only crazed, rabid Democrats could be tone deaf enough to think that launching a massive Soviet style, police state, witch hunt against the Trump family and all his employees, without any charges, won't cost them the 2020 election."

Unlike Republicans, Sanders has been in favor of better treatment for undocumented immigrants as well as a path to citizenship for them, but his past views on other immigration issues have been met with approval from some conservatives. Namely, Sanders has raised concerns over undocumented immigrants getting hired over American workers and driving wages down.

[Prosper]

12. What more does Biden

have to offer than what Hillary offered and lost with in 16. Poor people are getting poorer and Joe is just smiling along. Both sides already have their solid base votes. Who is going to get the extra votes needed to win. Trump did it in 16 with “Lots of good paying jobs” and “Make America Great Again”. Well, no “Lots of good paying jobs” and America is no better than the last 60 years for the working class. Can Joe address that??? He is already identified as status quo. Status quo is not going to put Joe in the Whitehouse. Right now somebody should be looking for a disillusioned Charismatic former Trump voter to drive the Trump failure home all over TV and MSM.

[Gothmog]

17. Socialism polls badly

Link to tweet

THE MAIN TAKEAWAYS are that socialism, broadly speaking, is unpopular, but Republicans have work to do if they want to tarnish some key Democratic proposals. Once voters hear about the agenda as framed by Republicans, 61% say it is socialist. Calling Democrats’ policies “socialist” causes a 10-point drop in their popularity.

-- FOR EXAMPLE: Take ‘MEDICARE FOR ALL.’ When asked about supporting Medicare for All, and hearing it described as “guaranteed health care coverage regardless of … income, and every American’s health insurance would come from a single government-run plan,” 41% favor it, 55% oppose and 4% are unsure. When Republicans start describing it as causing “doctor shortages, longer wait times for urgent care and delays in access to the latest drugs for cancer and other serious diseases,” the numbers move to 34% favor and 60% oppose.

-- THE ‘GREEN NEW DEAL’ is actually above water when described as a plan that “would work to address climate change and income inequality, and transition the United States from an economy built on fossil fuels to one driven by clean energy.” 48% favor, 46% oppose and 7% are unsure.

IT SINKS when Republicans start describing it as potentially costing “93 trillion dollars” and hiking energy bills by $3,000. It goes then to 32% support and 61% oppose. Polling memo … Poll deck

[Prosper]

48. Socialism is used as an excuse

to impoverish people that depend on society and other human beings to create opportunity and jobs for them. Not a word of shame or condemnation to the top .001% when the cost of the 08 bailout was socialized. Not a single protest from the top % when the resulting loss from their greed was socialized. In one swooping storm of socialized money all the discomfort of selfish privatized greed was eased from the conscious of the top .001%. Not one story of PTSD from the guilt of socialized money forced upon them. Not until an examination of the early dying and prolonged suffering resulting from health care denied is the evil of socialized dependency exposed. The freedom to suffer more and die earlier showcases the superiority of rugged individualism over social dependence.

[emulatorloo]

37. Donald Trump is the "status quo" now. n/t

[empedocles]

13. Socialist B. Sanders, non-Democrat? Could any candidate have less down ticket muscle?

Anyone less likely to be able to get anything done?

[Fresh_Start]

27. I have to agree with you

Bernie will not win the Senate or improve the position in the House.

[Prosper]

42. Bottom line is the exaggeration

of socialism comes from the right. Spending and increased taxes on hoarded money are needed to move this country and the world to humanitarian solutions to the depravity to human rights. How is it possibles to inspire people to the life saving benefits of gun control when people are willing to ignore the prolonged suffering and early deaths resulting from denied health care. Professing gun control while denying total access to health care killing thousand of people earlier each month is unconscionable. How are thousands suffering and dying earlier each month from lack of healthcare totally acceptable to a society campaigning on the horrors of gun violence. It seems thousands of people suffering and dying is not the issue but simply guns are the issue.

[Gothmog]

15. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states in the real world

[Uncle Joe]

20. Well if there is one thing we can trust, it's GOP data.

[Gothmog]

21. Washington Post-Democrats back off once-fervent embrace of Medicare-for-all

Meanwhile in the real world, the polling shows that sanders' key program does not poll well

Link to tweet

But in recent months, amid polling that shows concern among voters about ending private insurance, several of the Democratic hopefuls have shifted their positions or their tone, moderating full-throated endorsement of Medicare-for-all and adopting ideas for allowing private insurance in some form.

“What I think has happened in the Democratic primary is people recognize that some of the concerns about single-payer are not coming from special interests but the public,” said Neera Tanden, a former top aide to Hillary Clinton and now president of the Center for American Progress. (A government-run health system is sometimes called a single-payer system.)....

Now some Democrats warn of the perils for their party in taking a position that, to important groups of voters, could seem just as disruptive as the GOP’s push to kill the ACA.

“There is nothing more personal to people than their health care,” said Kathleen Sebelius, who consulted on Harris’s plan and served as health and human services secretary in the Obama administration. “Anything that calls for the vast majority of Americans to lose what they have — that’s a very dangerous place to start a conversation.”....

Other surveys have found less support. About 8 in 10 Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents in a Pew poll in July said the federal government has a responsibility to ensure health coverage, but less than half said it should be through a single government plan.

And in a July poll of Iowa voters by CBS News/YouGov, two-thirds of Democrats said they preferred a government health program that competed with private insurance, compared with 34 percent who favored one that replaced private insurance entirely.

[Uncle Joe]

22. Yes WAPO uses right wing talking points in there polls,

that's a big improvement.

In the real world, people can lose their private insurance in a number of ways, Democratic candidates are free to embrace it as they wish.

Only time will tell who and what wins out.

[Gothmog]

23. So the polling cited is wrong?

The polling data cited in that article is real.

[Uncle Joe]

24. I'm stating they have been using right wing talking points.

Just as Tapper did during the second debate.

[Gothmog]

25. How are these facts wrong?

[Uncle Joe]

34. Ask anyone if they support Medicare for All with absolutely no qualifiers and the approval rating

is much higher.

Right wing talking point Ask them if they support Medicare for All but they will lose their private insurance (as if that actually meant anything of value) and the approval rating goes down.

Ask them if they support Medicare for All, private insurance will be all but eliminated and any possible tax increase will be more than offset for the vast majority of the people by the elimination of deductibles, co-pays, premiums, that dental, vision and hearing will be covered as well, of course that approval rating is unknown because the questions by the pollsters are never phrased that way.

[emulatorloo]

38. So if one isn't honest about what M4M is, it polls higher?

That doesn’t sound good. Maybe you can rephrase that so it sounds better?

[Uncle Joe]

39. The not given question in my scenario is being honest.

[Fresh_Start]

26. not once the GOP start hitting Bernie where it hurts

he's only ever been treated with kid gloves

[NYMinute]

30. ...

[doc03]

31. In a solid blue state. A socialist has no chance in a swing state. nt

[lunamagica]

32. Mark my words...Sanders will NEVER be POTUS

[AncientGeezer]

35. Maybe..but he can't beat VP Biden or Sen.Warren to get to dumpster. I appreciate Sen Sanders...

..but he just isn't going to be POTUS.....you'll be POTUS before Sen. Sanders should you chose to run after Biden, Warren, Harris, O'Rourke.. run up 2 terms

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

36. Hmm no

And won't be the nominee.

[ismnotwasm]

40. This paragraph tells the story

It's also important to remember that the eventual Democratic nominee does not need any Trump voters to win. Indeed, Trump got a smaller fraction of the vote than Mitt Romney did in 2012 — Hillary Clinton just lost a ton of support from Obama voters in critical regions who either voted for third-party candidates or didn't vote at all in 2016. Just repeating Obama's 2012 performance would surely do the trick — indeed, even performing just slightly better than Clinton in the three key swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania (in none of which did Trump get a majority)

[LongtimeAZDem]

41. Lol

[SidDithers]

44. No he can't...nt

Sid