Sorry I just listened to Chris Hayes' show discussion

[elleng]

(TRASHING) of V.P. Biden.

[Grasswire2]

1. It's on twitter and FB too.

For silly, inconsequential things.

[George II]

2. It's what Chris Hayes does. Aside from that, he's a horrible interviewer....

....and his delivery is distracting, to say the least.

[elleng]

3. I agree, he's a horrible interviewer.

[calikid]

5. I too agree,

But he did a great bit just now about tRump.

[NurseJackie]

13. I even dislike his "hand-off" to Rachel...

... our dvr begins recording a few moments before Rachel's show starts so I see him for just a few seconds each night.

[cwydro]

4. I usually watch him later.

Yesterday he was trashing the shitgibbon, so why is he down on Biden?

[ancianita]

6. Did you see Hayes' one minute trashing of 45's constant use of "from the standpoint of ... " ? He's

trying to nip the cheap Biden criticism in the bud, to toss it into the trash news bin.

[elleng]

9. No, didn't see the 45 thing,

but heard Hayes' guest say Biden would be a terrible candidate, and no complaint from Hayes. Didn't sound at all as if tossing 'cheap Biden criticism in the bud.' I wish it had.

[Cha]

12. So do you know who

the guest was? And, who they supported?

Thanks!

[elleng]

15. No, was in another room, listening, not watching, so I don't know those facts.

[ancianita]

21. Here. It's Charlie Pierce & Natalia Salgado who put Biden down. They're wrong.It's not "asymmetry,"

but plain and simple double standard bullshit. They're both wrong about Biden having a "problem," too.
And Salgado saying about Biden's "The Problem As A Candidate" is argued against by Hayes, who brings up Joe's consistent resilience.

At the end you'll notice they HAVE to capitulate to his argument.

"You could be right" Pierce says.

Salgado admits that Biden's strength is "Uncle Joe's name recognition" and that he's the "safe choice."

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/putting-biden-s-gaffes-into-trumpian-perspective-65804869578

Now here's Hayes' extended and pretty damning comeback about this bullshit double standard. He slams Trump hard.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/from-the-standpoint-of-donald-trump-65804869564

From the standpoint montage is hilarious and the final point Hayes slams Trump with.

[elleng]

24. Thanks

[ancianita]

27. Your OP creates a misunderstanding for others of news you only half heard. Please don't get upset

until you're clear on who said what.

I'm just asking.

Because the segment you write about didn't at all amount to a "TRASHING."

Hayes is too smart and too good a Democrat to fall for Trump bullshit, as you can see in the links here.

[highplainsdem]

39. I just watched the first video you linked to there, and I didn't think Hayes seemed at all

complimentary of Biden. When he talked of Biden's resilience, he compared it to Trump surviving what everyone considered mistakes that would destroy his campaign.

The tweets I checked after first hearing about Hayes's show tonight indicated lots of people thought he and his guests were trashing Biden.

A small sampling below. But before I post those I want to point out that checking those tweets alerted me to something inadvertently funny in that video. After criticizing Biden for gaffes, Charles Pierce said, "It's early yet. It's August 2015." That's a bit over 7 minutes into the video.

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[ancianita]

41. Fine. But teh framing of this thread is Hayes TRASHING of Biden. That's opened up a shade show

here about Hayes as a Democratic cable news host.

There is WAY too much going off about a good cable news presenter, and a Democrat, over an opening post that is factually wrong. Period.

[highplainsdem]

44. Hayes has a history of trashing Biden.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128756310

[Cha]

45. Nasty tweet from Chris Hayes account @

Joe Biden.

[Evergreen Emerald]

71. I love Chris Hayes

He is super smart. And he is not using a double standard when assessing Biden's statements versus any republican.

[Cha]

73. I don't like Chris Hayes.. he was always dissing Hillary, too.

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highplainsdem: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=234219

Hayes is that pundit who thinks he knows everything but doesn't.

[ancianita]

49. He represents women's point of view. Not just my boomer view but millennial women's view.

He's not trashing Biden.

He's challenging the changeability of a candidate who IS patriarchal in the liberal Catholic tradition. Having been an East Coast Catholic myself, knowing men like Biden, I know that Hayes knows of what he speaks.

And why shouldn't ANY of our candidates get challenged. Religious values at the expense of women's rights have too often been behind our politics, and Oprah's right. Time's up. Challenge had better bring evolving, as Obama learned, and Biden is learning.

Candidate criticism goes on all the time on DU, particularly with targeted candidates.
I see it.
Read it.
Daily.
I don't like it, but hey, it's the primaries.

Hayes is not. my. point. The mistaken reading of HIM because of a mistaken comprehension about what went on with two guests, IS my point.

If Hayes has a trashing bone in his body, he saves it for the vile shitgibbon in the White House.

He minced no words when he straight on called 45 a racist before ANY other MSNBC announcer.

I'm comparing the announcers. I know he was the first.

[Cha]

43. Thanks for these Tweets of those Objecting to Hayes show!

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highplainsdem: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=234219

[Cha]

46. You're not the only who thought that..

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highplainsdem: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=234219

[elleng]

47. Glad to see.

[ancianita]

7. Hayes' setup was not the point. He was just leading up to the discussion of the longstanding

double standard that amounts to the " abyss" blackness calling a mere kettle black.

[Cha]

8. Because of course, he was!

[Thekaspervote]

10. He has his fav... nothing will distract him, and since he married a msnbc exex's daughter he gets

A free pass to open his mouth and spout bs

[Cha]

11. Oh really? I didn't know Hayes

was married to a daughter of a msnbc executive.

[ancianita]

22. Hayes is the last person to "spout bs." Tonight is no exception. Watch the clips I link above.

[still_one]

32. Like in 2016 going after Hillary. He is also boring as hell, and superficial. In my view the only

one’s who do their homework are Rachael and Lawrence

[ancianita]

36. 2016? I watched him then and never saw that. Boring? Superficial? Duly noted.

[still_one]

37. We simply disagree

[Cha]

61. Thank you for this, still_one..

I agree

[ancianita]

25. Incorrect. Hayes married veteran Chicago reporter Andy Shaw's daughter, Kate Shaw. Big diff.

[Mersky]

14. Idk, I tuned in towards the end of the Biden discussion

Generally, appreciated Charles Pierce's take as that segment wound down. I think a return to 'normalcy', trust, and I'll add, knowing the job are real strengths for Biden.

I thought Hayes' show from yesterday was really pretty good. Watched/listened twice. I'll try to catch the top of tonight's show later on to see about this trashing. I can get rather cranky about unfair coverage or promotion of candidates (I'm looking at you, CNN, with that fawning over Williamson after the debate. Or Reuters leading with Trump every single day thru their app in 2016 - uninstalled that after a month)

All that said, Biden can weather some gaffes, and I'd rather not see them blown out of proportion. Biden is still top of the list for me. Beto's in my top three, which is as good a position as any at this point in the race.

[ancianita]

23. Just remember that Pierce was not backing up Hayes. He was capitulating to Hayes' "OTOH" point.

Biden is the frontrunner because the double standard bullshit of this president and his conservative fake media don't pass the smell test with the average American.

[Mersky]

35. Ok, I'll consider that when I watch the whole thing

Hayes pissed me off the first week Biden announced. I'd already seen Biden speak before the electrical workers union days before, and I felt Biden wasn't getting a fair shake. I want to know when a show tilts off the rails, so when I say I'll watch for that bias, I will do so.

Now, all that aside, I watch Hayes fairly regularly for shows like he did yesterday. Also, rather liked the segment about tRump's use of standpoint for things that cannot have a perspective.

It's a mixed bag with cable news. I watch, learn, and enjoy it, but I don't implicitly trust it, but, by golly, we need the media presence. Gotta push back when the limited outlets that do discuss climate change, injustice, and corruption, etc. get lost in horse-race malarkey.

Btw, I really like Inslee.

[ancianita]

40. Sometimes his producers push for horse race at the start of primaries. You can tell Hayes'

just doing his job by who he has to speak to producer talking points. When he's got news that one can chew on, he has some great experts weigh in.

Hayes regularly asks Ta Nehisi Coates on for extended discussions of race issues.

No one else on MSNBC has covered race politics the way that Hayes has.

[Cha]

31. Pierce had a little gaffe of his own..

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highplainsdem https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=234164

[emmaverybo]

60. That takes the cake for irony and humor. We can't wait five years to elect Joe Biden!

[Cha]

62. Hahaahahaha! "..We can't wait five years

to elect Joe Biden.." Perfect, emmaverybo!

[BlueIdaho]

16. Chris is tiresome...

He thinks he’s the smartest teenager on television but mostly he’s just annoyingly obvious.

[ancianita]

30. I consider him equally as smart about the news as either Maddow or O'Donnell. I wouldn't waste my

time watching him if I thought he was obvious.

I don't get your "he thinks he's the smartest teenager" at all. He's 40. To me he looks 40. He's got a quick, humorous style, but I'd never call it "teenager."

He's also had discussions, so thoughtful and analytical -- with plenty of graphics, film footage to accompany it -- that he's left me wowed, thinking, "look out, Maddow and O'Donnell!"

I think Chris Hayes is a serious cable news analyst who ranks #4 on MSNBC, behind Maddow, Melber and O'Donnell.

I respect that you're entitled to your opinion. I just want to give you mine, is all.

[redstateblues]

38. He's is miles behind Lawrence. What did he do to to get a show? I had never

Heard of him before he got a talking head gig. I’m a former fan-he’s not must watch. Lawrence has a lot of cred and accomplishments. Hayes not so much.

[ancianita]

42. Nope. He's right up there. His town hall hosting is something O'Donnell can't and won't touch.

Hayes has done masterful jobs with candidates meeting the public. He doesn't guide audience attention; he doesn't interrupt or correct; he doesn't frame cheap, hot button issues in any candidate town hall.

Chris Hayes does a LOT to promote the Democratic Party to the entire country.

[redstateblues]

48. He has become a Biden basher. I would expect him to me more even handed at this point.

Like I said, his show is not must watch anymore. Honestly, the town halls are mostly boring. At this point I know what all the candidates positions so I consider them mostly a waste of time.

[ancianita]

50. You fail to appreciate the importance of town halls. They're not supposed to entertain, dude.

No need to drag down a very talented town hall host for that.

Like I said, you're too glib in your seeing any pattern, since you don't even want to bother to seriously watch his work, anyway.

So let's just stop. I've learned enough from you.

[redstateblues]

52. You missed my point. I was a nightly watcher until

Hayes started bashing Biden. His cred is shot with me. I even like your candidate though I hope he will stop going after other Democrats. Unfortunately he will probably not be on the stage for the next debate. I do think he would be a great Secretary of the Interior or the EPA chief. He is an appealing politician.

[ancianita]

53. THAT just proves you don't watch Inslee, either. He challenged Biden once. The ONLY candidate

he challenged over climate change. And he was right to do it.

Joe's gradualism is an old school approach to the Pentagon's #1 threat to national security, a problem that is THE overarching problem for this country and rightly should be the #1 priority of the next president. Inslee was right.

Because the next ten years are our last chance to not cross the 2 degree Celsius threshhold from which there will be no return for our children or the world.

[redstateblues]

54. Not true. I've listened to Inslee a lot. I like him. Our most important thing is to beat Trump

Inslee does not have the support necessary to take down Trump. Biden does. I think Inslee would have a great environmental impact as part of a Biden administration. If Trump wins all is lost.

[ancianita]

56. Then link his challenges. Or you're just making stuff up. Inslee's support problem is the problem

of a public that is uninformed and unwilling to face reality; they're afraid Inslee would change too much, and don't want any leadership that will change anything that will affect the way they live.

So, you're right. If Trump wins all is lost. If any Democratic president doesn't take Inslee seriously, we're still lost.

Inslee needs to be in a major position to change our entire energy structure, and to build the green new deal leadership that will regain the confidence of our Western allies.

Link the criticisms Inslee allegedly makes against the other candidates.

[redstateblues]

57. I'm not a hard core fan like you are. I know what his agenda is. I think he can make a big

contribution in a Democratic administration. I’ve heard his pitch. I can’t spout his” challenges” word for word the way you demand but as I said, I know what he is about. He’s been on TV a lot. The chances of him winning the nomination are slim.

[ancianita]

58. This isn't about hard core anything. This is about you having a basis for criticizing a candidate.

I don't demand.

I don't demand anything word-for-word. It's reasonable to expect links, at least.

You decide not to have any for Inslee, but claim "I know what he is about."

That, and the negativity typical of those who don't learn about other candidates, is disappointing.

I know a lot about everyone's candidates here, but I'd never say a really smart, accomplished candidate's chances are slim.

Given these tendencies, it's easy to forget that's what they said about Obama.

[redstateblues]

65. Obama won two terms easily. Our field of candidates would do well to emulate him

Not attack him. When they bash him it makes them look small and petty. Good luck to you. If Inslee wins the nomination I guarantee you I will enthusiastically vote for him!

[ancianita]

66. There you go again, making stuff up. LINK where they "attack him," "bash him" and where they

look "small and petty." It's only fair in contributing to truthful discourse.

If you don't, what you say is noise, not signal, and doesn't help the Democratic Party. It's hard enough to read people attributing character flaws to candidates who are talking campaign talk, but this stuff about Biden, or candidates attacking and bashing Obama, just isn't right.

I'm glad to know any Democrat would vote for Inslee, and I realize this is the primary season where emotions run high. But that doesn't excuse anyone's making unlinked, therefore baseless criticisms, against party candidates. It doesn't mean that people get to indulge in some negativity bias habit, either.

I've asked twice for links, and twice I just get more imaginings.

Unless you link them. Then we have something to talk about.

To be fair.

[Cha]

70. You're absolutely right, redstateblues!

“I think attacking President Obama is bad policy and bad politics,” Sen. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said Thursday. Of Biden’s tenure as vice president, Blumenthal added: “He owns it, for better or worse. But he should be proud of it.”

Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois also suggested the Democratic race should be marked by a more hands-off approach toward Obama.

“You can disagree with him, and I have, but the bottom line is ... he did an extraordinary job, and he should be given that recognition by those that are running for the presidency.”

Link to tweet

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-obama-2020_n_5d4326a6e4b0ca604e2edddd

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=224386

[redstateblues]

72. Mahalo Cha! It only makes candidates look small when they go after

the best President in my lifetime. It doesn't make sense. I guess they think by disparaging O they will somehow increase their numbers.

[Cha]

74. I think they may have thought that Dissing O

would decrease Biden's numbers.. and yes thereby increasing theirs.

[Cha]

33. I agree.. he's not for everyone.

[Duppers]

59. I stopped watching months ago.

Hubs still watches. I just wait for Rachel and Lawrence.

[highplainsdem]

17. Missed it, was just checking Twitter for any discussion of it. Saw more than one tweet saying that

Charles Pierce was trashing Biden for making gaffes, before saying,

"It's still early. It's August 2015."

Now if Biden had said it was August 2015...

Link to tweet

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[elleng]

18. LOL!

[highplainsdem]

19. I just edited my post to add links for two tweets. Thought I'd seen more than that but can't

find any more right now.

If I can find video later, I'll post it...

[elleng]

20. Thanks

[highplainsdem]

26. Link to the video:

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/putting-biden-s-gaffes-into-trumpian-perspective-65804869578

That remark from Pierce is about 7:07 in.



That link to the video is courtesy of ancianita in reply 21.

[Cha]

28. Oh NO! Now would I disparage

Pierce for that? NO!

You're a great researcher on twitter, too.. highplains ! Thank You!

[Cha]

29. Retweeted! Both of

them! That's what you can do when you're on twitter!

[Iliyah]

34. OMG . . . .

LOL . . .

Never was a Charles Pierce admirer.

[highplainsdem]

51. See reply 26 for a link to the video and where to find Pierce's comment in it.

[BeyondGeography]

55. It was pretty balanced

Pierce ended with a fairly strong argument for Biden as the “back to normal” candidate who just might win in spite of his shortcomings. Hayes agreed.

But Pierce said 2015!

[lark]

63. I quit watching Chris Hayes a while ago.

He is part of the purity crowd and I haven't given him any of my watching time since 2016.

[Cha]

64. Yes, he is.

[Peacetrain]

67. ellen I do not know what is up with Chris Hayes.. but he does have a burr under his saddle

about VP Biden..

[TSIAS]

68. Chris Hayes is the best host on MSNBC

If you watch a network with Brian Williams, Joe Scab, Nicolle Wallace, and John Podhoretz as regular contributors, nobody can complain about Chris Hayes. He is the closest the network has to a far left progressive.

[Cha]

69. I don't like Chris Hayes..

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highplainsdem: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=234219

Hayes is that pundit who thinks he knows everything but doesn't.