Bernie Sanders' Facebook page has posted a "Who Said It: Trump or Biden?" video.

[Music Man]

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2019, 12:11 PM - Edit history (2)

It's Nina Turner quizzing a panel, using generic criticisms by Biden of Medicare For All to imply that Biden and Trump are one and the same: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2409822055917586

If the Trump presidency has taught us anything, it's that Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were never the same. Democrats can disagree, but it should be fucking clear at this point that there is no equivalency between our candidates and Trump.

I'm confident I can find populist, Sanders-like quotes that have been used by the most vile politicians of all time. We can go slippery slope all day. It's nearly as dumb as saying Hitler was left-wing because the Nazis were the National Socialist German Workers Party.

I prefer a single payer system, but reasonable Democrats can disagree with it.

I unliked Bernie's page. It felt good.

*Edit to add link*

[mopinko]

1. calling tom perez. paging tom perez.

get on the phone, tom.
tell him to chill his people, or get booted off the debate stage.

enough of this shit. he made a big deal out of being the first to take the pledge, now make him stick to it.

[MBS]

4. + 100 n/t

[Autumn]

2. I thought it interesting. They attributed accurate quotes to the correct people.

I can see the problem with that.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

22. "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell." - Harry S. Truman

[Autumn]

28. Yes it's so unfair and dirty to quote what a politician actually says.

[qazplm135]

33. except saying Biden's plan is like Trump's plan is a lie

it's not truth.

Unless you are a purist who thinks everything that isn't M4A is the same and a far right plan.

But not even then. Biden has a plan that is well to the left of Trump.

"Truth" would be to argue why Sanders thinks M4A is better than Biden's plan.
"Truth" would be to argue why Biden's plan is wrong for the country.

"Truth" is not Biden and Trump are the same.

Other than the choir, who do you think is going to buy into that?
Biden's not even in my top five and I don't buy into it.

So other than spinning up Sanders' supporters into a hallelujah chorus, what's the point of all this?

[HerbChestnut]

39. They're not comparing plans.

They're comparing language that Biden, Trump, the GOP, and the health insurance industry are using against M4A. Unfortunately, the language each of them are using is eerily similar.

[qazplm135]

51. see that's the problem

a legit move would be to compare plans.

a bs move is to try to link Biden to Trump and pretend they are the same.

[HerbChestnut]

57. Well, maybe Biden should reconsider his talking points when arguing against M4A.

Right now, Biden is not comparing policy. His strategy out of the gate was to use misinformation to try and scare people out of supporting M4A, which is the same tactic used by the GOP, Trump, etc. The Sanders campaign is just calling it out for what it is.

[qazplm135]

66. lol yeah see how persuasive that argument is

to anyone but the choir.


It's why the far left never wins, they don't know or care about persuasion.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

53. "Medicare goes away as you know. All the Medicare you have is gone"

That’s what this is about.


Yes or no. Is that a truthful statement?

I agree with you. We can have a discussion about what is feasible or too expensive. But why say things like that?

[qazplm135]

55. it's a POLICY argument

you can argue whether it is true, or not true...whether your plan or his plan is right or not right...all of that is just fine.

Attacking a POLICY is NOT the same as effectively saying your candidate is just like Trump...can't tell em apart.

One is policy, one is personal.

[HerbChestnut]

59. That quote is not a policy argument.

That's a scare tactic.

[ucrdem]

3. He's already at full kitchen sink and the voting doesn't start for months.

I foresee an early demise.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

25. No, "kitchen sink" is fear mongering MFA by saying it will take away Medicare.

[Amimnoch]

5. Disqualifying. ANYONE but BS 2020.

To paraphrase him and his Campaigns of history.. #anyoneButBernieorBust.

[ancianita]

9. You just taking this OP's word without expecting linked proof? He is running WITH the Dems, you know

I don't care if it is primary seasons, this "anything but" is divisive bullshit.

[Amimnoch]

14. Thank you for advising me how I may feel.

I agree, it’s been VERY divisive. Personally, I feel it gave us Trump to begin with. I realize others will disagree, and it isn’t even up for debate here because that would be breaking rules, and I follow the rules.

HIS surrogates created it, I’m not letting it go.

I have my favorites, and of the 20 candidates, I’ll gladly and wholeheartedly support ANY of them but Bernie. The things he has said and done; the things his surrogates members of his campaign staff and close associates have done have completely eliminated him from ever being considered a person deserving of my support. I am not even close to being alone in feeling this way.

They gave us #bernieorbust first, and thanks to them and Bernie himself I’m firmly anyone but.

[ancianita]

19. Don't cave to blaming "surrogates." The way Dems lost last time was through surrogate infighting.

You are still fighting the 2016 primaries. You've just said it.

[Cha]

76. I totally agree with you.. and also that you're

perfectly capable of coming to decisions all on your own. Based on your experiences through this whole tragic mess.

[Cha]

75. I've seen this news before.. it just wasn't on FB

BS has brought this on himself. Nothing his staff does is not approved by him.

He's trying to smear Biden with trump.

Link to tweet

FYI Tom Watson is Definitely Not a Biden Supporter but he does care about our Country and Planet.

Bernie Sanders Says Biden 'Is Sounding Like Donald Trump' on Medicare for All

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=204945

Wasn't BS heralded as the "First one to sign the Unity Pledge!!!!"

2020 Candidates Begin Signing Unity Pledge, With Sanders Taking the Lead

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128793259

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=205327

[NYMinute]

18. +1000 nt

[ancianita]

6. Cannot find it on Bernie's Facebook page, 40 posts dating back to July 17. So. Why not link it.

Looked at 40 vids on YouTube dating back to 2 years ago. Nothing.

If you're going to tell a story, it better be fact-based.

There's nothing to substantiate your claim, so why don't you provide it.

[Music Man]

7. Here:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2409822055917586

Added to the OP now.

[tirebiter]

67. Conned through Facebook again?

Gimme a break.

[OilemFirchen]

80. Conned?

Here is Sen. Sanders Facebook videos page:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/berniesanders/videos/?ref=page_internal

Scroll down to "All Videos" and look to your right. The farthest right, specifically.

[Me.]

8. Here's A Question/s For Nina

How many candidates running for president wrote a rape fantasy essay, honeymooned in Russia and hired a campaign manager who was Manafort's partner getting dictators elected? That's for starters...playing dirty only makes you dirty.

[Music Man]

13. Because my life doesn't revolve around this website.

I will read threads from time to time, and I enjoy chiming in or starting discussions occasionally. But I am a public school teacher, so I have--what's the phrase I'm looking for--shit to do...

What exactly are you insinuating by referencing my low post count?

You clearly don't comprehend Me's post. Bernie Sanders did the things she's referring to, so as to equate Bernie with Trump (a la, his video).

I hope you come to see the irony in the fact that I am criticizing Bernie for nasty attacks on Biden, but then you criticize me, saying the enemies are not in our party.

[ancianita]

16. I see the irony. The constructive liberal thing is not to drop online participation but correct it.

Bernie is the primary runner. If he can out-argue Biden's campaign statements, he makes fair points. As a Democratic candidate he has the right to attack Biden, just like Kamala Harris did. Biden is the frontrunner, so he'll keep getting these confrontations. As he should.

As a Democrat, you, occasionally chiming in or not, primary season or not, may not imply that he, as a Democratic candidate, should be dropped -- shot down like a clay pigeon -- as has been clearly stated on DU many times while you were doing shit.

I was a five-class-a-day high school teacher in Chicago. I know the work load.

No excuse. This is party unity, not uniformity, of support. Support doesn't command agreement. But it does require support, agreement or no.

I went to the page and wrote a criticism of Nina Turner, and her role in the Democratic party, fyi.

[Me.]

65. ...

[NYMinute]

21. +1000 nt

[dalton99a]

11. Same Old Shit.

[Gothmog]

15. I doubt that this stunt will work

Besides violating sanders' pledge to not attack other Democrats, this stunt assume that Biden supporters would switch to sanders. That is not likely to happen. Biden supporters will switch to other moderate candidates like Harris or Beto before they support sanders.

[ancianita]

17. Sanders should fire Turner for hurting his campaign integrity. This stunt won't sway Biden supporter

s

[Autumn]

26. Quoting and attributing to Biden what he actually said is the problem and hurts Bernie's campaign?

Alrighty then. It's not intended to sway the faithful, it's intended to highlight what Biden said.

[qazplm135]

34. it's intended

to preach to the choir and feel superior...you are correct, it's not intended to persuade at all.

Mission accomplished.

This is why Sanders and the far left ultimately fail...they don't know or really care about persuading as much as they care about showing their moral superiority.

[Autumn]

38. No it's not. It a primary campaign and that is where candidates highlight their difference from

the others. It's almost like some people have never seen one before Moral superiority has nothing to do with it. I said it's not intended to sway the faithful, and I wasn't talking about Bernie supporters either but people who have made up their minds to support a candidate and will not change their minds. But it may sway those who have not made up their mind to support Biden. The campaign was absolutely right to use Joe's words against him.

[qazplm135]

48. saying Biden's plan is different or worse than mine

is "highlight differences."

Saying Biden equals Trump is beyond silliness.

I have made up my mind not to support Biden, but shit like this breaks that wall a little at a time.

[Autumn]

47. You don't think Biden was preaching to his choir when he said that about MFA?

Campaign season is not for the delicate.

[qazplm135]

50. uh no

I think he said what Bernie's surrogate should have said...that plan won't work, ours will.


easy.

[Autumn]

54. Too bad that's not what Biden said.

[qazplm135]

56. it is what he said

you just don't agree with what he said.

Difference is, he didn't personally link Bernie to Trump.

[Autumn]

62. Except Biden did not say "that plan won't work, ours will." he said more than that.

Biden said "Medicare goes away as you know it. All the Medicare you have ...is gone.

Trump said. " Medicare for all would really be Medicare for none. Todays Medicare would be forced to die"

That's why the outrage of Nina using exactly what he said. Those two statements are very similar and if that links one to the other that's not Bernie's or Ninas fault.

[ancianita]

35. I hear you and get it. The next step of "anyone but Bernie" is what I address. That's not going to

sway anyone but political opponents who'll exploit the party as weak and fractured.

Looking ahead. Bigger picture.

Nina can be an asshole. So can everyone. But the issue isn't to promote the idea that this party can't unite because of its differences; its to promote the idea that this party can unite across differences.

Now the question our opponents ask is: what do you unit under?

[Autumn]

44. I don't know of anyone who is "anyone but Bernie" so addressing that is a waste of our time.

What opponent has asked, "what do you unit under?" That makes no sense. We have no opponents at this time in the primary and we also do not have a nominee.

[ancianita]

49. Yes, you do. #9 I've screenshot it.

They gave us #bernieorbust first, and thanks to them and Bernie himself I’m firmly anyone but.

[qazplm135]

52. I'm anyone but Bernie OR Biden

enough old white men running this country.

(I'll throw in Gabbard because she's cray and I will throw in the most farthest right candidates who think we need to be liberal republicans to win).

[Autumn]

63. You made a wrong assumption. I don't know who that poster is and I don't read every post.

If he's anyone but Bernie in a primary, that's their choice.

[questionseverything]

82. well peops that say they wont support the democratic nominee if its bernie are idiots

so if #9 prefers trump they should just say that

[trueblue2007]

79. Sanders wukk NEVER fire Turner for hurting his campaign integrity. She is the dirty politician

and attacker. Just like she id in 2016.

[Cha]

83. But he won't.

Link to tweet

[NYMinute]

20. It is so dishonest

Taking snippets of Biden's long statements and turning them into caricatures.

It is infantile and infuriating. Nina Turner is a troll.

[ancianita]

24. Pretty much. When crunch time comes, she loses political party perspective & hurts the liberal cause

[NYMinute]

27. Nina Turner's deck

has aces and kings missing and they are replaced with jokers.

[NYMinute]

23. If you unliked the page

Why are you posting that crap here?

It doesn't jive.

[Music Man]

29. I unliked his page after seeing the video

It was the last straw for me. I am simply sharing it to foster discussion of what I believe to be an unfair line of attack by one of our candidates.

I will vote for Bernie Sanders enthusiastically in a general election, and he matches up policy-wise with me, but this strategy is back to the 2016 methods that really hurt us.

[ancianita]

32. And you re-litigate 2016, aware or not. Evolution of party is more important. If you can't do that

because you dislike one of his surrogates, then you misunderstand what it takes to win.

I'm glad you'll support him in the general, but.

If you promote this politics of surrogate infighting, the very uniform and united opposing party, the Republicans, will use it to intensify, broaden and its own appeal -- and it will be done on the Internet because they think they've got the EC locked -- lull the electorate into thinking they are voting the "safer" party, no matter what corrupt candidate they back.

I don't want the nomination bitterness that swept the party in 2016, and so our whole attitude of support has to change to meet the hegemonic command of message that the right showed last time.

Seriously.

I told Nina Turner that, too.

[Music Man]

36. It's not just Nina Turner, though.

Bernie Sanders' page posted this, so Sanders himself (or at least his campaign) is endorsing it.

[ancianita]

40. NO. You don't know that. Lots of Democrats who've run have been derailed by surrogate infighting.

If that's what it takes to win, we're going to have a huge party deficit against the united front of the Republicans who have just as many different factions, but still have one message.


You can't make the leap from surrogate to candidate to surrogate. Primaries are candidate against candidate. Surrogates feed the idea for the debate, Bernie brings it up in debate, Biden answers.

That's IT.

You don't get to say that surrogates justify you doing or saying divisive shit during campaign season in the Democratic Party. Or you'll be even responding to fake Russians (not just trolls or bots), that's how sophisticated the digital right is becoming.

Question: Seven years membership isn't enough time to put up a profile pic?

[Music Man]

45. You can make the connection in this case because his *campaign-affiliated page* posted it.

Also, you've resorted to ad hominem attacks throughout this thread. "Why don't you have a profile pic? Why do you only have 213 posts? Your job is no excuse to not have a bazillion posts."

I'll accept your apology, otherwise your ad hominem attacks means you've lost the argument.

[ancianita]

60. That's your interpretation of my questioning your not having factual backup with a LINK. Then

your logic about false equivalencies. You knew when you said "I unliked Bernie's page. It felt good." that others would chime in. Low as your post count, you were around in 2016 and saw the whole infight for fairness.

Now you say I can't ask questions because they amount to ad hominem attacks. In your win-lose logic, call me "ad hominem" in intent, and I automatically lose.

Hm, who goes for zero sum win-lose in the political spectrum.

If you expect an apology, you'll be waiting a while.

If you lurked or posted more, you'd know the whole of my post record and ideas, and not fall in with right wing style arguing, accuse me of ad hominem.

Try seeing questions as questions, no matter what you think is the motive. That goes a long way to trusting candidates' worth, as well.

[Music Man]

70. Nowhere did I say that your asking for a link was an ad hominem attack.

You were right to ask for it, and I provided it immediately.

I'm specifically referring to your issue with my having a low post count and no profile picture. There's something you're trying to suggest, not just "asking questions."

Fortunately, I took a screenshot of one such post that has apparently been removed:

[Music Man]

71. Not to mention that you also found fault with me being Undecided.

If you MUST know, I'm between Warren and Buttigieg. But with 20+ candidates and just a few months into the process, being undecided is fair, no?

[ancianita]

30. Glad to see you edited your OP.

[Vegas Roller]

31. To summarize the whole OP

Nina Turner is juvenile, stupid, immature, dishonest and a TROLL.

If BS doesn't fire her, he is culpable.

[JaneQPublic]

37. In fairness, a "Bernie or Trump?" video could also be made.

"The election was rigged."

"The media is against me."

Add to those the various votes/statements on trade, Russian sanctions, etc.

[ancianita]

42. NOT in fairness to equate their values or their motives or their donors or their audience. No.

[ancianita]

46. ANY one can say any phrases. Depends on context and intent. Link Bernie saying these, by the way.

Then realize that you're doing what the right wing does --

saying someone who sees racists and racism is the real racist.

[lapucelle]

64. What is BS's voting record on Russia sanctions? N/T

[JaneQPublic]

68. Google is your friend.

https://ivn.us/2017/08/03/meet-5-lawmakers-voted-against-russia-sanctions-bill/

[lapucelle]

69. Wasn't there also a Russia sanctions vote last January?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/senate-democrats-vote-to-block-trump-from-lifting-russia-sanctions-fails.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/senate-rejects-democratic-efforts-to-prevent-administration-from-lifting-sanctions-on-russian-oligarch/

[wyldwolf]

41. YES! Now THIS is how you secure your fourth place status!

[silentEcho]

43. That's funny. Probably, along with whiny the system is rigged against him and he is being cheated.

[Iliyah]

58. Are we re-living 2016?

[silentEcho]

61. Is Sanders running again? I think we are.

[Agschmid]

72. No matter what candidate you support this kind of video does nothing to get people to switch.

People who support Bernie will be happy to see the callout of Biden, but they already support Bernie so no pick up.

People who support Biden most likely already know he said these things verbatim, it’s unlikely to shift support to Bernie.

If this video is targeting undecided voters IMO it doesn’t do enough to make Bernie look good, but it may make people reconsider supporting Biden (which again they weren’t if they are undecided).

So no net gains for anyone IMO.

[Politicub]

74. Amateurish and trashy

You would think this kind of thing would be beneath BS.

Haha - just kidding. Sirota probably thought of it while feeling edgy.

[Funtatlaguy]

77. He's not making new friends this way

[aeromanKC]

78. Sanders would get booted from websites with TOS against disparaging fellow Democrats

Or spreading RW talking points. He better be careful.

[dem4decades]

81. It's almost as if he's not a Democrat.

[silentEcho]

85. He is not a Democrat. He says so himself, repeatedly.

Oh, you were being facetious, weren't you?

[Gustafo]

84. Bernie promised not to go negative

But he's losing so, change of plans.

[Gothmog]

86. This tactic/stunt will not help sanders

sanders is violating his oath to not attack fellow Democrats. This stunt will not work in that few if any Biden supporters will support sanders. If this stunt it successful, the few Biden supporters who may leave Biden are more likely to go to a moderate candidate like Harris, Beto, Klobuchar or Castro. Warren is more likely to benefit from this stunt than sanders.

[Trenzalore]

87. I'm unsure why he is going after Biden so hard

He's mostly losing support to Mayor Pete, Senator Warren, and Senator Harris.