Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumElizabeth Warren's first law review article blasted an anti-busing court ruling
In her first law review article, published in 1975 in the Rutgers Law Review and recently unearthed by CNN's KFile, Warren sharply criticized a Supreme Court ruling in the case Milliken v. Bradley, writing that it made it easier for school districts to stop busing students in northern cities.
...In the article, Warren predicted that de facto segregation -- segregation that occurs not because it was institutionalized by the government but because of social norms, prejudices and self-selection -- and de jure -- segregation that existed because of laws that mandated racial segregation -- had been silently "reaffirming" by the court and would take over American public schools.
The isolation of minorities in urban centers, Warren wrote, and a shrinking tax base to finance public education would lead to facilities that are inferior in "student-teacher ratios, and other educational advantages" for minority students. For Brown v. Board of Education to have meaning in northern urban centers, Warren said that "effectively separate schools, even if equal, and certainly if unequal, are condemned by the Constitution, regardless of the reason for the separation."
...Warren also seemed to recognize the significance of Milliken in her law review article. She argued that without proper oversight from the federal court system, she wrote, the burden of desegregation has fallen on to black communities.
"It has been black parents, children, and organizations committed to desegregation who have shouldered the major part of the burden...Clearly, the burden for enforcing the Brown right has been misplaced," Warren wrote.
More at https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/06/politics/elizabeth-warren-busing-desegregation-kfile/index.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JudyM
(29,251 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)"published in 1975 in the Rutgers Law Review and recently unearthed by CNN's"
Unearthed ??? Really???
It is a law review article right there for all to see. Not hidden. Easy/simple to find.
Drama is the goal.
Bite me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Search results for Elizabeth Warren at Rutgers Law Review online:
http://www.rutgerslawreview.com/?s=Elizabeth+Warren
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)You may have missed my point. I was not dissing Senator Warren. I was dissing the media.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)Warren 2020
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That is the definition of both political and personal courage. Contrast that to what Joe Biden was doing at that time.
I put Warren on the same tier as the great Florida Governor Reuben Askew, who integrated Florida schools over staunch White resistance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)and we still need them today.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(130,973 posts)she wrote, the burden of desegregation has fallen on to black communities.
"It has been black parents, children, and organizations committed to desegregation who have shouldered the major part of the burden...Clearly, the burden for enforcing the Brown right has been misplaced," Warren wrote.'
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)I'm in awe of her reasoning in that Law Review article. She was right, of course ... at least in my opinion. A difficult passage to integration of schools and society was stopped in its path by that SCOTUS decision. Yes, it was opposed by fearful and/or angry parents. That was a given. But the federal government created the practice of redlining after WWII (probably to placate the Dixiecrats), to prevent low interest VA and FHA government mortgage loans from going to those areas. The goal was to frighten whites into the suburbs and to concentrate black Americans into circumscribed ghettos -- and they were even called that at the time.
Real estate agents warned white homeowners in those areas that they'd better sell quickly and move to the all-white suburbs or have their kids go to schools with n----r kids while the parents would lose money to falling property values. Meanwhile, banks followed the government's lead in refusing mortgage loans to the vast majority of black potential buyers.
Prevented from increasing their capital through home ownership, most African Americans were unable to profit from rising home prices as whites did. Schools became increasingly segregated as one of the inevitable consequences, and the Supreme Court decision has kept them that way. De jure segregation may have been outlawed but the ruling made de facto segregation the law of the land.
It would have been far, far better if the Court had ruled the other way and gotten it over with. By now, we would be a far, far better, fairer and more equal country.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
littlemissmartypants
(22,692 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lonestarblue
(10,011 posts)They never claim that of course, but they choose locations carefully to create schools for mostly white kids. Warren has the courage of her convictions. I hope she is the nominee. She will eviscerate Trump on the debate stage.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)And she was a freaking republican then. But at that time, many republicans supported integration of society and schools.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I think that would be very instructive to know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)She gets massive support from Blacks in her state.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That would surprise me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)By definition, she is for whatever tools bring that about, be it busing, fair taxation and tax monies distribution, ect.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)as a tool for effectively ending segregation of schools. And she took that position at a time of real personal and economic peril to her. Why would you expect her to embrace anything else today? Also, where is Joe Biden's proposal on busing? We know what he proposed along with segregationists.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)What she did took enormous courage, for a White person of that time to publicly call for what she proposed. You will not minimize her, she had courage.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Moral democrats and republicans had to rewrite and pass legistlation. Joe Biden at that time was opposed to busing, so it is rational to guess that he opposed the new legistlation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Speared with an American flag pole, with the flag still on it, then he was beaten until someone rescued him from more serious injury.
In my native south, White people lost jobs and homes for publicly supporting school integration. Some Blacks ended up mysteriously dead, or shot dead by police.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)the number 1 reasons AAs opposed busing instead of the ever bandied about "everybody was against it," like it was some Kumbaya moment.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,733 posts)At some schools you dont even get to have your name on them, and in any event soon after they are published they disappear into a memory hole, to be read only by your friends and family, who wont understand any of it. If youre really lucky your piece might get cited by someone if they cant find anything else - student comments are pretty low in the hierarchy of legal authorities. Some of these pieces are very good, as Warrens is, but I can assure you she was never in the slightest danger, personality or professionally, for having written it. Criticizing Milliken wasnt controversial, even then.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
paleotn
(17,931 posts)I thought he was doing the wrong thing in order to stay elected. I mean, getting reelected is what it's all about...right? Right?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That's one point. The other is that she was writing an article for a journal, not legislation that would affect constituents. I'd be very surprised if she's ever promoted this position in her Massachusetts senate runs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Since you opened the door, my friends (actually business associates) that live in Massachusetts say that she always ran on an equality platform and has enormous support among Blacks in her state.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Thanks though!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)could there not have been some other way that did not put the burden on the children?
Granted the children are most likely to get along together, in the sense that the little kids always play with each other without any racial issue - when they are so little they aren't aware of it, so maybe that is what they were thinking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)by ending redlining and zoning ordnances that made it hard for AA families to move into segregated areas. And he proposed lots of ways of achieving educational equality without sending students on buses to distant schools on the basis of their race.
Which based on outcomes I would have to say I agree with.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)That was a factor.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The only one on record is him working with segregationists to effectively end integration of schools. I am a southerner, I can promise you that segregationists WERE NOT for fair loans to Blacks so that Blacks could buy homes anywhere, I can acertain to that since I actually was a small boy at that time and witnessed what was going on.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And does nothing to integrate the schools in the meantime or to help the minority children trapped in segregated schools.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)new school construction to integrate schools, pretty successfully if my red county is used as a marker.
Joe Biden did not think that far ahead as he worked with segregationists. I am sorry, but that is part of history, and now we see that Warren opposed him even then, when it could have really cost her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)People were physically assaulted and had property destroyed for taking the very public position that she took. Many Whites that did not agree with segregationists shrunk from confronting them. So, you can't minimize her courage by saying that she did not hold office at the time.
Joe Biden's proposal at the time is a historical document. They buttressed segregationists and fortunately for society were defeated by elected democrats and republicans that had the moral clarity of Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)If she'd written against desegregation it wouldn't would have been published. I applaud the article but in the 70s busing was conventional wisdom.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)At that time, the party still had souther segregationists in the party, although the south was rapidly becoming a republican bastion.
It took simple, heartfelt courage for Warren to do what she did at that difficult time, you can't minimize that.
Busing was the law because some democrats and republicans wrote and passed legistlation that overcame the efforts of the Supreme Court, Joe Biden and segregationists.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Igel
(35,320 posts)Harris left listeners (because of her opposition to Biden) with the only possible inference. He was against federal/court-ordered busing. She benefitted from the busing he obviously was against, therefore her district was subject to court-ordered busing.
Her district voted to have in-district, district-mandated, busing. Not federally mandated by federal law or by federal courts.
Harris was bused. She did not benefit from what SCOTUS decided against. SCOTUS had nothing to say about the program she was placed into.
The only inference from that is that it was *not* the "only known tool for ending school desegregation" that SCOTUS banned.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)This information is REALLY going to help her standing with Blacks, IMO. An upward bound White standing up for racial fairness and inclusion when that was not a popular thing to do among Whites.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)I've read countless times Warren had a road to Damascus conversion towards social justice when she started investigating real world bankruptcies in the '90s.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)earlier than her leaving the Republican Party. All of this should help her with Blacks, they will see her as a ally even when the chips are down, IMO.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)demonstrate who they stood for.
We had a bad-ass Republican as my Representative while coming up in Maryland. Her name is Connie Morella. She's 88 years old. Thinking about it now, she became known as a RINO.
Although a Republican in an area that had become heavily Democratic, she proved highly popular among her constituents and won re-election seven times, serving until 2002. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Morella
Personally, I'll never forget her kindness to my family. Once when one of my sisters ran into financial aid problems with a college trying to cheat her. We called Morella's office and someone got back to us the NEXT Day! saying they'd already contacted the school that all of a sudden couldn't find a problem. Morella's assistant said their office was expecting a confirmation letter that we got about a week from the assistant.
Years later, though only 62, we were trying to get my late blind uncle into an assisted living facility. It was an old folks home but part of their admissions policy was not just age but also for younger people with disabilities. It was basically an all white apartment building and we knew what the deal was. Called up Rep. Morella's office and problem solved. Uncle lived his remaining years independently without feeling like he was a burden on the family, which he was not.
Funny, she was born and raised in Massachusetts as well and from a family of democrats. She truly was a RINO, only changing parties when she married a republican but never changed her principles. I just love her and could go on and on about her career and what she did for people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 6, 2019, 05:28 PM - Edit history (2)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)because of this issue. We are letting ourselves be distracted to an absurd degree.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)on their character. It was far, far easier for a White to virulently oppose busing than it was for one to give a rational argument on why it was needed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Deflating that point was my main motivation for posting this. Plus the clarity and quality of her reasoning.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)inside and out, doesn't let it drop to fester and grow, and offers solutions.
Warren, noted Wilson, might have been out of step with her contemporaries at the time, and particularly "out of step" with white Americans who were "tired" of the decades-long battle to integrate public schools.
"If the Court cannot or will not develop a judicial remedy for urban school segregation, then Congress must. Equal educational opportunity requires the combined efforts of the judiciary, the legislative branch, and the administrative departments of the executive branch," Warren concluded."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)and call it a day. What he does not know yet is that he will get gutted like a Cod by her. "Nevertheless, she persisted".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)This 'Republican Elizabeth Warren' has a lot in common with Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)We should bus adults around first. Businesses aren't fully integrated. Maybe we should start requiring the busing of white adults to be dropped off to work at black-owned businesses, and bus minority workers to work at white businesses. We should then require politicians to be bused around to areas that are majority the opposite of the race that each politician is. Let's bus Massachusetts politicians to minority areas, to spend full days there politicking, fund raising, eating, working, however they spend their days. Then bus them back every evening in an hour (or 1 1/2 hr) long ride back to their Massachusetts neighborhoods, or to Washington D.C.
We need to do this in all the states, overseen by a federal program.
If that works well, we can then force the busing of their children. But I don't think we should force busing of children, unless the adults experience it first.
Hey, this sounds like a winning issue for the Democrats! I'm sure the voters will run to the polls to vote for a federal mandate of forced busing!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WA-03 Democrat
(3,050 posts)This is not an issue.
Busing was tried and it failed. Most all agree that it wasnt the best idea.
Healthcare
Jobs
Income inequality
Climate Change
Russia
Civil and Voting Rights
Repairing international relations
US right/white wing extremism
These are the issues. What anyone said about busing decades ago is a Russian red canard.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,646 posts)invalidate anyone else's. No canard if it's important to a particular voter. While busing may not be a key issue today, whether about busing or not, every candidate's past is relevant and a fair consideration in selecting who one will favor with their primary vote.
That's my perspective. I trust you will respect that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WA-03 Democrat
(3,050 posts)I am for who will be the Democratic to defeat Trumpkins
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That is why Warren's stand then is important. Some people are trying to minimize it by saying that she was not in elected office, or that her stand was a comment in a newspaper. So be it, their view is their own, but it misses the point, she identified herself and opened herself up to career and physical peril because of her stand.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)at Biden here, because I understand the politics of that time. I lived them, after all. But I do want to point out something.
I want to tell you a short story of how bad policy choices build on each other to create very serious problems.
The problem:
Colorado has a serious and growing imbalance in our labor force that is hurting businesses who rely on highly educated, highly skilled workers. Educational attainment for black and Hispanic kids is significantly below that of white kids and Asian kids, but demographically they will be 48% of our labor force by 2050.
Denver Public Schools was forced to bus in 1973, and there was a massive white flight to the suburbs (my family included).
Bad policy choice #1:
Denver Public Schools stopped busing in 1995.
Bad policy choices #2 and #3:
In 1991, two Amendments to the Colorado Constitution were passed: the Taxpayer Bill of Rights (TABOR) and the Gallagher Amendment holding the property tax ratio steady between businesses and residences.
OK, so let's see how these three bad policy choices played out on the ground.
Denver schools went back to de facto segregation when they stopped bussing - it was like a stretched rubber band flopping back into place. Because of 'white flight' the property tax base went down for inner city schools, but because of TABOR and Gallagher, the state legislature was powerless to stop it.
First, greater metro Denver grew and grew and grew, yet the ratio of property tax that comes from residential real estate has been held to artificially low levels because of the Gallagher Amendment. This, coupled with TABOR, has had a double whammy on inner city school funding.
Under TABOR, there has to be a plebiscite to raise taxes. Our state legislators, whom we elect to represent our interests, do not have the power to raise taxes, even when it IS in our best interests to do so. Thus, Colorado has steadily dropped in the amount of per pupil operating revenue. But it really IS a double whammy, because the low property tax revenue is holding down local school funding below the levels needed, and the state is forced to cut other budgets, like higher ed and transportation, to make up for the shortfall.
The result: Colorado K12 schools are now 38th in the nation on per pupil K-12 spending. Inner city schools get even less revenue because of the Gallagher Amendment, and the state budget is unsustainable with TABOR.
So, in Colorado the decision to make busing voluntary was problematic and, with TABOR and Gallagher, is slowly starving inner city schools, which now have graduation rates between 60% and 65%. This leaks into the postsecondary realm, where these mostly minority kids are graduating at low rates and end up not going to college or getting any other postsecondary training.
It is ALWAYS about money - the rich taking more and poor having less.
The other issue with the view that busing should be a voluntary state thing, rather than be mandated by the federal government is this. States like Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi and others in the Deep South simply won't do it. Remember 'all deliberate speed?'
Sociologically, the more different people are kept apart, the easier it is for guys like the Koch Brothers and other right wingers to use their think-tanks like ALEC to barrage states with legislation and ballot initiatives that further these bad policy decisions and cause new ones.
We all know intuitively that it is much easier to get white people to hate black people or Hispanics if we haven't been around them so we can get to know them. Physical separateness plays right into the hands of the corporate-funded right wing, and it has been a wildly successful strategy for them, because it has allowed them to steadily drain the treasury and transfer more and more wealth to fewer and fewer people, which has been the objective all along.
We see the fruits of this with the awful and criminal concentration camps in which we're imprisoning immigrants under appalling conditions. About a third of the people in this nation would happily go further and kill them, because the right-wing has ginned up so much fear and hatred toward them amongst working class whites.
This is why we need to roll over these cretins at the polls in 2020, force them back under their slimy rocks, and spend probably the next decade or two cleaning up the horrible mess they've created. I'm supporting Warren because she is striking at the root cause of the problem with her 'Accountable Capitalism Act' introduced in August 2018. It won't pass....for now. But, when it does pass and is signed into law, we can begin to heal.
As to Biden, I'll support him, too, should he win the Democratic nomination, but here's my question about both he and Bernie - and it is a fair one: You both served in Congress for decades, and things are now a lot worse than they were when you both began your careers. Why should we believe things will get better with you as president?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,646 posts)obviously attentive perspective and thoughtful views.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Thanks for laying that out so thoroughly.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)Which I am. She is very, very solid on policy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
littlemissmartypants
(22,692 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)Warren will be the undisputed winner of all this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)Just get this out to the public and never talk about it again.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)it will be time to fund a primary centered on incapacity
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,733 posts)A case comment or note (sometimes defined slightly differently by different law schools) is a student work, usually written during the student's second year, analyzing a particular case or other development in the law. An article, in law review jargon, is a longer piece written by an outside contributor, usually a legal scholar, practitioner or judge. By pointing this out I don't mean in any respect to diminish this piece; it's very good. But criticizing Milliken v. Bradley wasn't a very heavy lift; the court held (5-4) that the federal courts didn't have the authority to desegregate the Detroit schools by requiring interdistrict busing. But, as the dissenters pointed out, Brown v. Board of Education required school systems to desegregate - but desegregating the Detroit school systems was impossible without interdistrict busing because almost all the kids in the Detroit schools were black. So without interdistrict busing, how were they to comply with Brown? Milliken was definitely one of the court's less admirable cases.
But the bigger picture here is that by purporting to compare the relative positions of Biden and Warren in the nineteen-fucking-seventies, is anyone suggesting that Biden's opposition to federal legislation mandating busing to desegregate schools (which the Milliken case would have made much more difficult in any event) is somehow the ideological opposite of Warren's criticism of Milliken, or, worse, that Biden is racist (which Kamala Harris specifically said he is not)? I am not sure what useful purpose is served by rehashing an issue that was controversial 40 years ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)Since busing in the 1970s is what is paramount in this election and all voters will be voting based upon who said what and did what during busing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dlk
(11,569 posts)Warren has spent her entire career fighting for the middle class, working families & people of color. Shes the real deal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)I can think of many issues which are of more import.
More Biden bashing over old history.
Don't forget what our country's demographics are today. Whites will soon be the minority.
Will we bus them?
A rising tide lifts all boats. Let's fix income inequality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)by making the state responsible for most education costs, rather than the individual school districts.
The reason poor children in most places get the worst schools is they lack the financial resources to have better ones, and they don't have the real estate tax base to afford what richer cities can afford.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Democratic diversions will not win elections.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)This is an excellent, well written and thoughtful article.
It's also helps to provide much-needed perspective of those times and issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden