Beto O'Rourke backs Nike, says Betsy Ross flag 'appropriated' by white nationalists

[Polybius]

Democratic presidential contender Beto O’Rourke said Wednesday that the 1776 Betsy Ross flag has become a symbol of white nationalism.

The former House member from El Paso, Texas, made the remark while stumping at the Iowa Veterans Home in Marshalltown, where he also praised Nike for pulling the flag design from a planned sneaker design set to be released for July Fourth, reportedly at the behest of former-quarterback-turned-activist Colin Kaepernick.

In his remarks, according to reporters present, Mr. O’Rourke said the 13-star flag sewn by Ross in 1776 “has, by some extremist white-nationalist groups, been appropriated.”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/3/beto-orourke-backs-nike-says-betsy-ross-flag-appro/

[StarfishSaver]

1. Why does Beto hate Betsy?

[SMC22307]

62. Why is Beto yielding to white supremacists?

Not

[StarfishSaver]

63. Why do you care?

[SMC22307]

64. LOL Why do I care that a Democratic candidate for President...

is yielding to white supremacists? Do you hear yourself?

[customerserviceguy]

2. So, he's OK

with abandoning this historic flag to cretins?

[Raine]

3. How about not letting them appropriate

an American symbol, I don't like the idea of giving in to haters!

[RussellCattle]

4. Exactly right. The thirteen star flag is part of our revolutionary....

....history and we should be proud of it. Tell the bigots and racists that, when we condemn them for using the Nazi and Confederate flags, we did not give them permission to appropriate a proud part of our heritage. Jumping on Nike makes no sense in this context, and please don't tell me that putting it on shoes is still disrespectful. We put our current flag on everything from underwear to fast food wrappers.

[nsd]

5. Who is "exactly right" in this scenario?

If we should be proud of the flag as part of our revolutionary heritage and we shouldn't allow Nazis and Confederates to appropriate that heritage, then how does praising Nike make any sense? That company did give in and allow the racists and kooks to appropriate what should belong to all of us.

[madville]

7. They let them win

Gave up from the outset

[UniteFightBack]

14. Well they gave in to Kapernick's demands that it not be used. nt

[RussellCattle]

22. OK, OK, I was a little confused by the original post. Beto is "exactly right" that....

...white nationalists have appropriated the colonial flag, but "exactly wrong" in thinking that Nike did the right thing in pulling the shoe from the market.

[zanana1]

13. They've already taken the flag and the national anthem.

They'll probably take apple pie next.

[Celerity]

45. they took milk

How the alt-right uses milk to promote white supremacy

https://theconversation.com/how-the-alt-right-uses-milk-to-promote-white-supremacy-94854

[madville]

6. Weak

Stand up for it instead of cowering down.

[Crunchy Frog]

8. Unilateral surrender to the RW. Great.

[RelativelyJones]

9. Jeez, is that uninspiring.

[bobGandolf]

10. 'The bullies took our flag so we can't use it anymore.'

It sounds rather pathetic. I am not happy with this stance.

[wyldwolf]

11. yeah... so we let white nationalists dictate what our American symbols are?

Just. Stop.

[Indygram]

12. The Betsy Ross flag was the flag when slavery was legal in all 13 colonies

That is why the confederate flag has 13 stars. Northern states started to end slavery after the Revolutionary war. The Betsy Ross flag was the only US flag that existed at a time when slavery was legal in ALL of the country. It was used for 13 months before The Flag Resolution was passed by the Second Continental Congress.

The Confederate flag from late 1861 to 1863 was actually a flag with the 13 stars just like the Betsy Ross flag but with 3 large red and white stripes.

I'm not surprised to see people criticize Beto over speaking the truth, though. The fact he has a pulse seems to annoy some.

[Polybius]

18. So what?

New York was called New York during slavery, should we change the name of that now?

[Indygram]

24. If they want to use a flag they shouldn't choose one that resembles the original confederate flag

just saying...

on edit: look up the first confederate flag, stars and bars.

[Polybius]

26. It doesn't resemble the confederate flag

The confederate flag resembles the Betsy Ross flag. Big difference, because it came out decades before the Confederacy.

[Indygram]

28. It most certainly does resemble the FIRST Confederate Flag

?w=700&ssl=1

And hate groups use the Betsy Ross flag.



But yeah, people should just keep right on defending it in order to have an excuse to hate on Beto...

[Drunken Irishman]

35. Many in the Confederacy hated the first Confederate Flag.

It was often referred to as a poor imitation of the American flag and received a good amount of backlash. George William Bagby stated the flag was unutterably detestable due to its resemblance of the Yankee flag.

William T. Thompson, the editor of the Charleston Daily Morning News, stated his opposition to the flag, "on account of its resemblance to that of the abolition despotism against which we are fighting."

The flag was so utterly despised by the people of the Confederacy that they adopted a new flag entirely, going with the Stainless Banner we've come to associate with the Confederacy.

So, the initial Confederate Flag's similarity to the Betsy Ross flag doesn't really prove any point beyond the fact it was highly unpopular because the resemblance was that of a flag flown by the abolitionists.

Also, re-read the post you're replying to. The poster clearly is correct. They stated the Confederate Flag resembles the Betsy Ross flag not he other way around and they're right.

[Indygram]

37. Not falling for which came first the chicken or the egg nonsense

The reason it upset people is because of what the Betsy Ross flag looks like. No one gives a flying fart which one came first. I'm explaining why it's offensive to a lot of people. Either people want to understand why or they just don't care that people were offended.
I care.

[Drunken Irishman]

39. No. You're trying to connect the Confederate Flag to the Betsy Ross flag, which is dishonest.

For starters, your assertion up thread that the reason the original Confederate Flag had thirteen stars was because the Betsy Ross flag flew over the country when slavery was legal is false. In fact, the very first Confederate Flag had seven stars:



That was due to the seven states that had seceded from the Union between Dec. 20, 1860 and February 23, 1861. Then, in May, after Virginia and Arkansas seceded, the flag added nine stars:



Then to 11 when Tennessee and North Carolina seceded:



Finally, the number settled on thirteen after Kentucky and Missouri were partially admitted into the Confederacy.



So, no, the history you're pushing is incorrect. For starters, the 13 stars wasn't even the initial flag, or the second flag or even the third - but the fourth.

The flag did mirror the US flag but that isn't a surprise as these people were American prior to seceding. It's only logical that it would have similar traits as the Betsy Ross flag as, during the confederacy, there were roughly a similar amount of confederate states as the 13 original states/colonies.

So your point is misguided and rooted in an incorrect retelling of history.

Now if you want to state the Betsy Ross flag is offensive because it's been co-opted by racists, then I support that notion. But this idea that it's tied to the Confederate Flag, based on factually incorrect statements, well no...I don't agree with that. It was inspired by the American flag but that doesn't void the American flag, does it?

[Indygram]

40. Wrong

The first flag you had pictured was used from March 4, 1861 to May 21, 1861 and was NEVER the official flag. It was a prototype.

The second flag you listed was from May 21 to July 2, 1861.

The third temporary version you have listed (and the 11th star was in the center) was from July 2 to Nov 28, 1861

The fourth and OFFICIAL First National Flag of the confederacy was used from Nov. 28 1861 to May 1, 1863.

After May 1, 1863 the X with stars was incorporated in a variety of different versions.




http://www.loeser.us/flags/civil.html (scroll down to see the flags and history/dates of use)

[Drunken Irishman]

41. I'm not wrong. You are.

Those flags were versions to coincide with the states that had seceded, hence why the total stars changed. It settled on 13 because there were 13 states who made up the Confederacy. Those numbers didn't change and therefore, neither did the need for the flag to change until it was abandoned due to its similarities with the American flag.

Your assertion they chose 13 stars because the flag to fly over the US during slavery had 13 stars is not rooted in any fact and is proven incorrect based on the evolution of the flag as each state seceded.

[Indygram]

42. You're still wrong.

You claim this was the first flag of the confederacy. It was not. It was never the official flag and was only "adopted" for 6 to 7 WEEKS. FYI "First Confederate National Flag" is the name of the flag.



Here are the facts:

First Confederate National Flag
(first version - March 4, 1861 to May 21, 1861)
This flag was adopted, but never officially enacted. In their haste to have a flag prepared for the flag raising ceremony on March 4, 1861, the Confederate Congress neglected to formally enact a flag law. When this flag was first raised over the capitol building in Montgomery, it contained seven stars, representing the Confederate States. This was also the flag used by the Confederate Army of the Potomac under General Beauregard at the First Battle of Bull Run (First Manassas) in 1861. This design was also used as the Confederate Naval Ensign between 1861-1863.

Strangely enough, one of the most persistent myths about Confederate flags concerns the First National flag. This myth states that this flag only saw combat at the First Battle of Bull Run, and was then replaced by the Army of Northern Virginia Battle flag (see below). In reality, of all the types of Confederate flags, this First National Flag (and its different versions) saw more battle service than any other and was still in use at the end of the war.

I say this was the first flag of the confederacy. It was. This flag was used for 1.5 Years. It was changed because it got confused on the battlefield with the Union flag.

First Confederate National Flag
(final version - November 28, 1861 to May 1, 1863)
The First National Flag eventually had 13 stars. The admission of Kentucky and Missouri in September and December brought the circle of stars to thirteen. During battle this flag was sometimes confused with the Union Stars and Stripes, therefore it was replaced by the 2nd National flag in 1863. Although there were only 11 states in the Confederacy, there were stars added for Missouri and Kentucky because both sides claimed these states. Missouri and Kentucky actually had two state governments: the elected governments which seceded and joined the Confederate States, and provisional governments created by the Union who actually held them.

In actuality, there were multiple versions of this flag. Examples on file include those with a single star as well as these star counts - 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 , 15 and 17.

http://www.loeser.us/flags/civil.html


And see post 32 by Hoyt.

[Drunken Irishman]

50. Look, just admit you were wrong.

You were wrong when you said they added 13 stars because that was how many stars were on the flag when America supported slavery. This is not true.

You're also wrong about the flag.

THIS was the very first flag:

https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_461713

How many stars are on this flag?

http://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-2004-19157-08&max=1000

THAT is from the Smithsonian.

[Indygram]

56. What part of "Never officially enacted" do you not understand?

You're wrong, as I have proven. But hey, if you want to continue to argue a losing point then you're going to have to do it by yourself because I'm blocking you immediately after this post. There are far more important things to think about and I'm not interested in stupid distractions.

[Drunken Irishman]

61. I just showed you the Smithsonian which classified that flag as the first...

Also, you still haven't proven anything about their picking 13 stars to represent the flag from when slavery was legal. So, you're either willfully lying or extremely ignorant. Either way, holding to your guns on this is not a good look. Just admit you fabricated the part about this flag being chosen specifically because it resembled the flag that flew over America during a period where slavery was legal. That had nothing to do with it. It picked a design very similar to the American flag and then decided on 13 stars to represent the 13 states that had joined the confederacy.

[Celerity]

48. Georgia, even after removing the Confederate Battle Flag, still has issues

[Polybius]

58. Re-read what I said

The first Confederate flag was from 1861. Something can not resemble something that came after it. So the fist Confederate flag can resemble the Betsy Ross flag, but the Betsy Ross flag can not resemble the Confederate flag.

It's not the Betsy Ross flag's fault if bad regimes come up with a similar flag, nor is it its fault if right-wingers fly it over 240 years later.

Interesting photo, btw. But I like this one better:

:large

[UniteFightBack]

15. And what truth is that? This is SILLY. nt

[LAS14]

16. The way to fight this is for all Dems to display the Betsy Ross flag whenever possible. NT

[Politicub]

17. Are we going to fold that easily on letting the right appropriate the

Betsy Ross flag?

It isn’t as if the flag is a monument to the confederacy. The confederacy didn’t exist when it was created.

It would have been great if Beto would have added something like, “but we’re not going to let them.”

Beto had a viral moment during the Texas senate race when asked a question about Kaepernick. He’s trying to manufacture another one, but this feels tone deaf.

[Polybius]

19. That answer likely cost him the race in Texas

I'm thinking of the one when he vocally came out for those taking a knee during the Anthem.

[Politicub]

20. His response about taking the knee in Texas was a stroke of genius.

Lightening rarely strikes twice, though.

[Polybius]

21. Genius for us

Not so much for swing voters and moderate Republicans that he needed to beat Cruz.

[bluewater]

23. Kudos to Beto!

[Iggo]

25. LOL. It's not a flag. It's shoes.

[Indygram]

27. The Betsy Ross flag resembles the first confederate flag

Hate groups use the Betsy Ross flag because it was the American flag during slavery. With how emboldened these ugly groups are we really don't need to give them ANYTHING adorned with symbols they embrace.

?w=700&ssl=1

[bluewater]

29. holy shit!

No wonder those Nike shoes bothered black people.

[Indygram]

34. Yep, it's not something that is commonly known...the battle flag is most known

and it's not the Betsy Ross flag itself...it's that we just can't allow anything that will embolden these assholes even further. Those shoes would have done it.

[Iggo]

30. People aren't losing a flag. They're losing one style of Nike shoes.

That's what I'm talking about.

The people complaining about losing a flag are losing a style of Nike tennis shoes.

It's not a flag. It's shoes.

[bluewater]

31. understood

[Indygram]

38. I misunderstood you

I thought you were poking fun at people being offended. Sorry about that.

[Iggo]

53. Looking at it again, I can see how one might interpret it that way.

To be fair, I wasn't being all that clear.

[Indygram]

57. No biggie

I apologize if I came across a little salty.

[StarfishSaver]

49. Yes. It's shoes

Shoes that none of these people probably would have bothered to buy if Nike had put that flag on them

This is a stupid issue. Nike was planning to put an historic flag on its shoe. They found out that white supremacists see that particular flag as a symbol. Nike made a business decision not to put out a shoe that could be exploited by racists to make a political statement. End of story.

As I said. Stupid issue.

[Honeycombe8]

51. What hate group uses a flag similar to the Betsy Ross Flag?

There are a lot of hate groups.

[Indygram]

54. The KKK

Google KKK two flags patch. Go to the link and look at the other items purchased by the people who bought the patch with the Betsy Ross flag. I'm not posting it here because it's extremely racist and disgusting.

[Hoyt]

32. He's right. Flags can be misappropriated.

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[bluewater]

33. +1000

[Jake Stern]

36. Wonder if Dean Obeidallah objects to this flag?

It deeply offends victims of Palestinian terrorism.

Probably not. That wouldn't let him engage in virtue signalling.

[MicaelS]

43. So every time white supremacists appropriate..

Something we are bound to stop using it?

The RW are doing a lot of this shit to poke us in the eye and get a reaction from us. They are quite explicit about that. And we are falling right into their trap.

[Indygram]

44. See post 32

I'm sure that KKK patch wasn't just created in reaction to a sneaker design.

[Honeycombe8]

46. It's only appropriated if the good citizens stop using it.

The KKK tried to appropriate the modern American Flag. But that didn't work out for them.

[Indygram]

47. Really?

You think Nike should ask Kaepernick to be spokeperson for those sneakers after seeing this?

Link to tweet

[Honeycombe8]

52. Yes.

If all that is necessary for a people not to use a flag, is for them to use a similar version, that's a pretty weak people to allow that.

That's my opinion.

There have been hundreds of flags used by the U.S. and all its states at various times. Many of them are similar and use the same colors. One is similar to Russia's. Others are similar to Great Britain's.

The flag in the KKK is not the Betsy Ross flag, but looks very similar. The stars are different in number and refer to the Confederate States. Notice the Confederate battle flag in the pic, as well. The Confederacy changed its flag because it looked too similar to the American Flag. So there's no real reason for the KKK to use it, since the Confederacy didn't use it for long. Except to appropriate it or because they didn't know any better.

[doc03]

55. We have people dying in concentration camps and a traitor in the Whitehouse and this country is

worrying about an f---g flag on a pair of overpriced imported shoes.

[Polybius]

59. So we can't talk about anything else?

Suppose I posted a tennis thread, would you say the same thing?