Why Joe Biden had to work with segregationists

[Galraedia]

At Thursday’s Democratic debate, former vice president Joe Biden came under even more fire for bragging about his ability to work with southern segregationists during his early years in the Senate. Sen. Kamala D. Harris, the only African American candidate on the stage with Biden, attacked him in searingly personal terms, explaining, “it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputations and career on the segregation of race in this country.”

But such criticism is unfair. Biden was far from the only progressive Democrat to have worked with former segregationists in the era to which he referred. They had to. Many of these segregationist senators maintained political power well into the 1980s, holding important positions, including chairmanships, on key committees with the support of their colleagues and the majority of the voters in their states.

The most prominent progressive Democrat to embrace the segregationists was Jimmy Carter. He accepted their endorsements and used them as surrogates on the campaign trail. In fact, Carter made the most powerful symbols of segregation — Gov. George Wallace (D-Ala.), Sen. James O. Eastland (D-Miss.) and Sen. John C. Stennis (D-Miss.) — a central element of his strategy to reclaim the South in his bids for the White House in 1976 and 1980. His use of these figures demonstrates their importance to securing the support of working-class white voters across the South, a region critical to any Democrat’s hopes of gaining the White House.

Mississippi, now so solidly red that Democratic presidential candidates have little to entice them to the state, was a crucial battleground in the 1976 presidential race. In an internal memorandum titled “Mississippi State Overview,” the Carter campaign recognized its best chance for victory depended on securing the allegiance of “a coalition of rural poor whites in northeast Mississippi and Blacks” that would overcome President Gerald R. Ford’s reliance on “urban and upwardly mobile whites in southern Mississippi and Jackson.” Throughout the campaign, and again in his 1980 reelection race, Carter walked a tight rope, trying to appeal to former Wallace voters in the northeast part of the state without alienating African Americans.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/06/28/why-joe-biden-was-right-work-with-segregationists/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1b4b39911543

[RHMerriman]

1. Stop trying to set the record straight with factual arguments!

Stop trying to set the record straight with factual arguments!

It was "hurtful," damn it.

[RussellCattle]

52. Factual arguments is exactly right. Every so often someone just....

....blows me away on DU when they drop something like this into a discussion. Galradia, well done.

[RHMerriman]

64. True ... unfortunately one has to dig past a dozen self-righteous "more woke than thee"

True ... unfortunately one has to dig past a dozen self-righteous "more woke than thee" types to find them, however.

Or run the risk of being called "hurtful."

[Hoyt]

2. Initally, after Biden spoke of working with segregationists, I was on his side. Then, I found out

he worked with them to thwart desegregation and equal schools for minority kids. I'm sorry, sometimes you just gotta say, No.

Initially posted that Biden was just making an example of the importance of working with the other side. Then -- thanks to Booker and Harris -- I found out what he worked with them on. What a disappointment.

[UniteFightBack]

5. If he didn't he would not of been re elected. nt

[Hoyt]

8. Then, he should have said that. And, if TRUE, he should have said part of the deal with

vile segregationists was that they would force the local governments to take steps to end desegregation and unequal schools within the next 6 monts.

I don't think he did any thing near that.

[UniteFightBack]

9. OH BROTHER! And what will Harris say when she is questioned that she worked with vile racists

in THIS VERY WHITE HOUSE on prison reform. What about that? That's OK to work with Stephen Miller and the rest.????

[Hoyt]

10. Did Harris work with segregationists on anything? Did she side with trump, Miller, etc.

[UniteFightBack]

12. No she worked with racists. nt

[Hoyt]

13. When? Did she side with trump, Miller?

[UniteFightBack]

15. She worked on prison reform with the racists. nt

[Hoyt]

18. But, to make sure there was Democratic input. Now if she came out and said "trump solved problem,"

I'm with you. I think Democrats should participate in any committee, task force, study group, etc., that GOPers are on.

[UniteFightBack]

19. Who knows...in 30 years from now it could be looked at very poorly that she lent legitimacy to this

corrupt shaministration. People can look back and see HOW AWFUL rump and company was and say 'who the hell could work with them on ANYTHING"?

Now I personally don't believe this. Of course they should work on things with scumbags when necessary to get things done. But it's very easy to judge when it's 30 years out and not in the thick of it when it was happening.

[Hoyt]

22. I doubt it, since she didn't support some trump, Miller plan.

[emmaverybo]

16. He doesn't do whataboutism. Otherwise he could have whatabouted Thomas for playing the race

card, his fellow Dems for their disengagement, Repubs for their horrible part in the Hill affair, and Hill herself for bringing a pretty doomed case.

He doesn’t bring others down or blame them when he’s on the carpet. And many times he could.

[Hoyt]

24. He doesn't need to, he's got his supporters to do it. You watch, there will be plenty of anti-Harris

stuff from other sources. In fact, they already have. Watched some of his campaign workers today.

[emmaverybo]

28. But your question was why he didn't say Jimmy Carter, Ed Kennedy etc. And I am telling you

that what hampers his self-defense at times is his own sense of what is fair play. Sure, supporters
here and all over the net will support him. But he and his team are never going to throw the blame
to anyone else, implicate other respected players, even when it would be legitimate to do so if only to give context.

You won’t find him going low when opponents do. He and Obama share Michelle’s maxim.

Though he did get in a good one when he contrasted his having been a public defender
with Harris choosing the other side.

[Chitown Kev]

34. Didn't Obama say...

You won’t find him going low when opponents do. He and Obama share Michelle’s maxim.

Something about while he was out in the street fighting for families, that Hillary was on the coporate board at Walmart?

Something about Clinton all of a sudden becoming like Annie Oakley?

Obama went low when he had to...

[Blue_true]

23. Reuben Askew, in his first months as Florida's new Governor,

Took on the state's very powerful anti integration power structure. All schools were segregated, including state universities. He stood before a mostly hostile stadium crowd at the state's largest university and told them ALL schools in the state were going to be integrated under his watch. He followed through, a few months after his speech at the University of Florida, all public schools in Florida were integrated. There was resistance, a lot of segregation academies opened up, but he pushed forward. In 1974, he won a second term and is almost universally recognized as Florida's greatest Governor.

So don't tell me that Biden would not have been re-elected by showing moral courage. A man in a much more difficult circumstance showed that courage and won renown as well as re-election.

[UniteFightBack]

27. "Florida's state's school systems are also organized by county -- encompassing cities and their

whiter, more affluent suburbs — making it easier to create demographically balanced schools." Washington Post

Anyway if Biden fails your purity test or OMG even worse your 'morality meter' than please just vote for someone else or rump. EYE ROLL

[Blue_true]

30. I will vote for the democratic nominee, regardless of who that is.

And I will do everything in my power to help that person win the Presidency.

I was born and raised in Florida. I was just old enough to get a small taste of segregated schools and other public facilities. The racial climate among Whites across the state was very hostile toward integration of schools and public facilities. It took real moral courage to push for integration in the face of that sometimes violent opposition. So please don't make fun of my terminology, I have seen enough to know what is and is not moral courage.

Do I think that Joe Biden is a good person that will do the right thing within the framework of today's society? Hell yes I do. Do I worry about him being hesitant on really tough problems, yes, but I trust that he will do the right thing.

I honestly don't know who I will vote for in the Florida Democratic Party primary (actually the Florida primary because it is state run). Who I vote for will depend upon who has made the best case on the issues that I care most about. That could be Joe Biden or it could be another democratic candidate in the prinary.

[UniteFightBack]

32. I'm not making fun of you I just can't relate to the purity test or the morality meter thing.

Because I don't do that...I'm very forgiving and I just think folks should just let that go for this go round.

I also don't care about the negative stories for any of the candidates. Like Melania said.... I JUST DON'T CARE. Is that bad? I find it freeing! And all the Democrats are great so unless someone is shooting someone on 5th Avenue I'm good with any of them and I'm good with all their pasts....because remember............. I just don't care!!!

[Galraedia]

11. Black nationalists like Roy Innis, director of the Congress of Racial Equality, opposed "busing"

There's also this:

In surveying black views on "busing" in black newspapers as well as reports and commentary from black activists, parents, politicians, teachers, and students, three broad themes emerge. First, rather than accepting “busing” as the logical frame for debating school desegregation, black people argued that white opposition to “busing” was simply a new way of expressing antiblack racism, that “busing” was a phony issue which obscured the causes of educational inequality, and that “busing” had long been used to maintain segregated schools. Second, school desegregation plans frequently led to negative outcomes for black students and teachers, such as the closure of formerly black schools and the loss of employment for black teachers. Third, black students in recently desegregated schools were disproportionately suspended and pushed out of school. Each of these themes illuminates why black communities were often ambivalent to “busing.”

http://whybusingfailed.com/anvc/why-busing-failed/the-complexity-of-black-opinions-on-busing

[Hoyt]

17. Did he oppose desegregation and equal schools? That's what busing was designed to ensure IF locali-

ties drug their feet desegregating and ensuring quality education by any means.

I don't know why people don't understand that a locality only got to busing when they didn't do the right thing on their on.

[Galraedia]

20. Here maybe this will explain better

Black politicians, activists, parents, and students articulated a wide range of views regarding “busing.” Black nationalists like Roy Innis, director of the Congress of Racial Equality, opposed “busing” in favor of providing the black community with greater control of their schools; U.S. congresswoman Shirley Chisholm, activist Jesse Jackson, and the NAACP offered vocal criticism of racism in “antibusing” protests and legislation, and more cautious support for “busing” as a policy; and black parents took up a range of positions, raising concerns about the quality of schools, the distance of bus rides, and the safety of black children bused to white neighborhoods.

Rather than adapting their coverage to present the multiple and often conflicting black opinions on “busing,” network newscasts structured their “busing” segments around white “antibusing” parents and politicians and presented black viewpoints as secondary. In Pontiac, for example, national broadcasts included a ten- to twenty-second sound bite from Pontiac NAACP chairman Elbert Hatchett or a black parent in a three- to four-minute segment that focused on Irene McCabe and the National Action Group. In Boston, violent protests outside white high schools received far more coverage than viewpoints of black students, parents, or activists. This dynamic played out in television news coverage of “busing” in cities across the country. While school desegregation was the dominant civil rights issue of the era, there were no specific black people associated with the “busing” story, no worthy black students like the Little Rock Nine to delineate who was on the right side of history.

http://whybusingfailed.com/anvc/why-busing-failed/the-complexity-of-black-opinions-on-busing

[Hoyt]

21. Again, they only got to busing when they failed to desegregate and ensure equal schools.

Lots of Black parents were glad their kids got out of the cruddy schools. They would prefer it was done another way, but they wanted it done.

[Galraedia]

26. Lots of black parents never had a say on the issue. It was forced on them.

Many black parents feared for the safety of there children and wanted the government to improve the local schools instead of closing them and busing their children into white neighborhoods where protests were taking place. Keep in mind that in the South mobs attacked black Freedom Riders, pulled them out, beat them, and set the buses on fire.

[StarfishSaver]

29. It"s NOT true that "lots of black parents never had a say"

The school cases that resulted in court-ordered desegregation didn't just spring up out of nowhere. They were lawsuits brought by black parents who were actively involved in trying to get their local school boards to desegregate schools voluntarily. After years of futile attempts, they had no alrernative but to sue in cities across the country to ask the court to order the officials to comply with the law.

After long trials with volumes of evidence showing how severe the segregation was and how deeply complicit the local school boards and city governments were in creating and maintaining that segregation, the courts ordered the districts to develop desegregation plans. Most of the plans involved reassignment of students to different schools - the only way integration could be achieved in communities where housing segregation was so deeply entrenched.

It is a complete misstatement of fact to suggest that black families were just helpless victims in this.

But yes, many black parents eventually soured on busing - witnessing angry and often violent white mobs terrorize your children can't have that effect on people.

[Hoyt]

31. Exactly.

[Galraedia]

33. Correct, but I was referring to forced busing.

Joe Biden indicated in 1981 that he supported the courts finding remedies to correct instances of school districts intentionally attempting to block African Americans from attending, such as altering school district lines, ordering the construction of new schools, and changing laws that prevented black students from moving to a white school district. However, forcing children to be bused out of their neighborhood was a complex issue.

[StarfishSaver]

36. Do you understand what "forced busing" was?

it was the result of the lawsuits that I described in the post you're responding to. These lawsuits were brought by black parents who had spent years trying to get their local school districts to desegregate the schools voluntarily. When they continued to refuse, the parents had no choice but to bring lawsuits asking the court to compel the school districts to comply with the law. The outcome of those lawsuits were court orders requiring reassignments that resulted in busing.

So the "forced busing" you describe was the last resort remedy sought by the very black parents you're suggesting were innocent, uninvolved victims.

All of those other remedies you mentioned are great but they take years and decades to implement. What happens in the meantime? How could schools be integrated in neighborhoods that were so strictly segregated without reassigning students to schools in different neighborhoods?

[Galraedia]

38. That is not what forced busing or busing in general is.

Those schools were ordered to desegregate after Brown vs. Board of Education made separate but equal illegal. Busing was a solution to desegregate by busing black children into white neighborhoods to meet a quota. Solutions to segregation were largely made by white politicians. While it might seem easy to just bus a few children miles away to a different school, there were safety concerns among other issues. Black teachers, who were paid far less than white teachers, lost their jobs and the local schools in black neighborhoods were often neglected and eventually abandoned.

[StarfishSaver]

39. Busing was the transportation made available to take children to their new schools

Wasn't forced and it wasn't mandatory. No child had to ride a bus - he or she could use any other means they chose to get to school. And when they took the bus, they were doing what millions and millions of other students around the country were doing, students who took the bus to school every day for reasons unrelated to the segregation and did so without violence or protest by their parents.

What was mandatory or "forced" was the new school assignments, which were ordered by the courts after the local school districts refused to be separated on their own.

But "forced integration" didn't have the same ring or trigger the same fear in white America that "forced busing" did.

Lee Atwater knew this.

[Galraedia]

40. There was no forced busing because Biden voted against it.

You criticize Biden for fighting against forced busing and then defend busing for not being forced because of Biden blocking it. The vote that Biden blocked was for the federal government forcing the busing of children miles away to a different school. You seem to think that I'm talking about the school bus taking children to school like they do today.

[StarfishSaver]

41. "There was no forced busing because Biden voted against it" Hunh?

You keep talking about Biden's legislation but you seem not to have read it or to understand what it did and didn't do. you also don't seem to have any understanding of what court ordered desegregation was and how blessing interrelated with it.

Please go read Biden's bills and amendments and the outcomes (what passed, what didn't) and then come back and we can discuss it intelligently. But until then, I can't continue trying to have a conversation with someone who is not making any sense - likely because you have not read the bills you're trying to tell me I'm wrong about.

[Galraedia]

48. You seem to only want to look at it from only one point of view and ignore the bigger picture

Forced busing, which is what he fought against would have forced black children miles away into white neighborhoods where protests were taking place. Black parents wanted their children to have access to the same quality of education as white students and access to the same types of facilities. However, they also feared that their children would face violence and discrimination. Biden never opposed voluntary busing.

[StarfishSaver]

49. His legislation he drafted and fought to pass into law targeted voluntary busing

It eliminated funding and prohibited local governments from taking certain other actions that made the voluntary busing programs created at the local level work. At the time, he even said that his amendment didn't affect court-ordered busing.

Even Politifact ruled his claim that he only opposed court-ordered busing but not voluntary busing as "Mostly False."

Those are the facts. You can choose to ignore them if you like, but that won't change them into your version.

[Galraedia]

56. Politifact never even fact checked that claim

I checked Politifact and it showed that he opposed busing but favored integration. It never fact checked at all the claim that he supported voluntary busing. The Senate makes decisions on a federal level. Either way, the voluntary program Kamala Harris was in was never affected by the decision regardless. It was just a pathetic attempt to attack her opponent as racist. If Biden is racist for fighting for civil rights and having to work with racists I guess Obama is racist for working with Biden and everyone that voted Obama/Biden 2008 and 2012 is also racist by that logic.

[StarfishSaver]

57. Please just stop it

From Politifact:

"I did not oppose busing in America. What I opposed is busing ordered by the Department of Education."


All of the word salads and attempts at misdirection in the world won't change that.

[Galraedia]

58. Did you even read what they wrote? Where did they say that he opposed voluntary busing?

Politifact reported it false because he opposed mandated busing and the Department of Education didn't exist until 1979. They made no fact check claim as to whether or not he opposed voluntary busing.

[StarfishSaver]

60. You stopped making sense several posts back, but I kept hoping to reason with you

It's now obvious that that's a waste of my time.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

[Blue_true]

25. Some of the points that you made were what I witnessed.

Busing was used to maintain segregation, I have made that point many times here on DU. Second, Black high schools were uniformly downgraded to middle schools.

But the administrators in my county made smart choices after the first ones. Teachers that had weaker certifications were given the money to go to summer school to up cert. Teachers with higher certifications were placed in the high schools, most had Masters degrees in education or science, a few had PhDs. Second, two new high schools were built in locations where no student had long bus rides, a lot of kids drove or walked to school, the ones that were bussed had no more than 5 mile bus rides.

Since the earlier days, the county has built more high schools and other schools and completely rebuilt two of the former Black elementary schools. Schools are well integrated, as are other public facilities such as pools.

So all in all, integration has been a positive. There still are issues, but they are not unlike other places.

[Voltaire2]

62. Roy Innis is a real bad example.

CORE was taken over by Innis and transformed into a front for his rightwing bullshit.

You might as well cite Elijah Mohammad.

[EffieBlack]

65. But he's black

And to people with absolutely no knowledge of or insight into the black community, our politics or our organizations, that’s good enough ...

[UniteFightBack]

4. Well Harris and Booker worked with rump and this corrupt racist shaministration for prison reform...

so there's that.

[Hoyt]

14. Did she side with trump and his administration?

[LanternWaste]

46. And there's the context and nuance you allow everyone but Biden.

[AlexSFCA]

6. back in the day Dem party and dem voters were pragmatic

they’d work with anyone to bend the arc of justice forward. Nowadays, everything is short term thinking and idealistic with no room to deviate from purity tests. GOP stole dems from us in the south by following similar strategy. South is not changing yet, maybe another decade but by then who knows what will be left of us. I say let dems in the south be racist, mysoginistic, etc. just win so we have power in the house and senate, those folks will be in the minority anyway but we need them to gain permanent majority. The alternative is GOP control. We now know even a racist dem would be much better than ANY rethug.

[UniteFightBack]

7. Less emotion and more pragmatism. Here here! nt

[myohmy2]

35. if...

...you've got to explain it, it's too late...

...

[shanny]

37. Maybe Biden just wasn't all that progressive

at that time.

Although if he wasn't then and is now I don't understand why he can't just come out and say so.

[Duppers]

42. The article did not even imply that.

Missing the point.

[shanny]

43. Didn't say that it did.

Missing the point.

[Autumn]

44. Yes he had to work with them. The issue I have is he seems to be almost nostalgic for the

"good old days." Those days are gone. You can not work with these assholes, he knows that. We all watched what they did for the last 10 years.

[Voltaire2]

45. He specifically worked with Eastland on anti-busing

legislation.

This was not just routine business, he and the racist shithead Eastland had a shared goal to abolish the single most effective federal tool for desegregation.

Biden should drop the damn story. His staff has begged him to do just that.

By the way what is Biden’s plan to desegregate public schools? Does he have one?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

53. You know who does have a plan?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trying to track down which Democratic presidential candidates have put out school de-segregation plans, so far only coming up with Sanders. <a href="https://t.co/izsco6nGyX">https://t.co/izsco6nGyX</a><br><br>Am I missing others?</p>— Chris Hayes (@chrislhayes) <a href="

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[SidDithers]

47. Yup. He just had to go all "States' Rights" with the segregationists...

It wasn’t his fault. He had to do it.

Sid

[StarfishSaver]

50. And only he can talk about it. If you bring it up you're calling him a racist which makes you racist

And you're angry.

[Voltaire2]

59. And if you are a women candidate

you are cold and calculating. Which is a dog whistle for ‘a female dog’.

[StarfishSaver]

61. You're cold and calculating except when you're being too soft

[Voltaire2]

63. Or too shrill.

But never mind that, our best candidate can’t open his mouth because it is stuffed with feet.

[Gothmog]

51. I lived through that era and I have no issues with Biden on this

[Hassin Bin Sober]

54. This is disqualifying

[saidsimplesimon]

55. Just wanted to point out that

the author of this opinion piece is a conservative. He wrote a book about Reagan, The Struggle for True Conservatism.

I would need to research his statement:

...Carter walked a tightrope, trying to appeal to former Wallace voters..

I think this could be a backdoor smear monger.

In another recent post:

The sudden appearance of the "both sides do it" argument implying antifa is part of our Democratic mainstream, hmm. I'll hold off until I gather more facts.