Interesting exchanges here on Busing, thought I'd illuminate a controversy that happened 6 years...

[Humanist_Activist]

ago with court mandated busing in my area.

Now, to give a brief background, this isn't directly about "racial balancing" or desegregation, but something much simpler, a school district in one county(St. Louis County) lost accreditation from the state, and so, as required by the state courts, the students from said district were to be bused to an accredited district in an adjacent county(St. Charles County).

For those unfamiliar with the area, this is St. Louis Metro, with St. Charles County being where the white flight exurbs exist. The students being bused were from Normandy, a suburb of St. Louis in north county that is majority black, for additional context, look here.

They were transported to Francis-Howell school district in St. Charles County, which is majority white. Let's just say the parents of Francis-Howell didn't welcome the students with open arms.

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/francis-howell-parents-express-outrage-over-incoming-normandy-students#stream/0

Now I would hate to call these people racist, but considering I was born and raised in St. Charles county and saw how my non-white friends and family were treated over the years, yeah, they are really, really, fucking racist.

Do I think forced busing is a solution? Most likely not, we have some magnet schools, and they are fairly integrated, but largely our public and private schools are segregated. Racial tensions here have been high(*cough* Michael Brown, *cough* Anthony Lamar Smith), and its not uncommon for white students, faculty and parents to be overtly racist. It seems there's at least one or two news reports about such behavior a year.

I will say this, some type of integration has to be forced on some level, because NIMBYism is very strong, even among liberals, as is just good ole fashioned prejudice.

[hlthe2b]

1. I remember hearing the NPR piece on this some time ago.

It was compellling.

[RHMerriman]

2. None of which has anything to do with Harris and the Berkeley, California schools in the 1970s

None of which has anything to do with Harris and the Berkeley, California schools in the 1970s... much less the Montreal high school she graduated from while her Phd mother taught at McGill.

Empty rhetoric and manipulative emotional bullshit that makes the reputedly tough as nails prosecutor look weak.

[Humanist_Activist]

4. Where did I mention either candidate, I'm talking about the larger issue of integration, which is...

in my opinion, more important than either candidate. Keep on topic please.

[RHMerriman]

5. Considering court-ordered busing for integration purposes has been moot for decades,

Considering court-ordered busing for integration purposes has been moot for decades, and even the 2013 example you cited about the St. Louis Metro area has nothing to do with integration, the topic seems fairly off-topic.

Residential segregation is illegal, and the de facto reality today in the US is that wealth drives residential choices far more than racism.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. Oh, a claim, where is your evidence that racism still doesn't drive residential choices?

Oh, and another question, with the wealth gap being so large between white and black households, how can "wealth-driven" residential choices NOT have a racial component?

[RHMerriman]

7. Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1 (1948) outlawed racial covenants.

Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1 (1948) outlawed racial covenants.

So, yeah, it's poverty.

You want nicer neighborhoods and better neighborhood schools, pretending otherwise isn't going to make a difference.

[Turin_C3PO]

9. There are absolutely

still white people who will not live in a majority African-American neighborhood. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

[RHMerriman]

11. Undoubtedly. You going to arrest them for it?

Undoubtedly. You going to arrest them for it?

[Turin_C3PO]

12. Nope.

Just saying that segregated neighborhoods are still a problem.

[RHMerriman]

14. Segregated meaning legal restrictions on home ownership because of race?

Segregated meaning legal restrictions on home ownership because of race?

Nope.

Demographically not diverse because of costs and individual decision-making?

Sure. Welcome to humans being human.

[Humanist_Activist]

10. Oh, so you think because the courts said something, its now how things work...

that's cute. I prefer to deal with reality as it is. Segregation is still with us, systemic racial discrimination is as well, as is redlining and all that other shit from decades ago. It isn't ancient history, but how thing operate today, right now, in much of the country.

[RHMerriman]

13. "All that other shit" is illegal...

"All that other shit" is illegal, and individuals, institutions, and governments get sued over it all the time... amazingly enough, there is nothing to prevent you, me, or anyone else from buying a home anywhere we wish other than money.

[Humanist_Activist]

16. Its only illegal if you get caught, it just moved from de jure segregation to de facto...

Are you honestly arguing that the only barriers to living where you wish are economic? With no racial components at all as a consideration?

[RHMerriman]

17. It's still illegal ... if someone gets caught, they can be held accountable.

It's still illegal ... if someone gets caught discriminating against a prospective buyer or renter on the basis of race, they can be held accountable.

Yes, if an individual has money today in the US, they can buy where they wish. Their neighbors may not invite them over for a potluck, but that's on the neighbors, not the US Code.

Unless you plan on arresting people for being "hurtful," of course.

[Humanist_Activist]

18. You seem to think racial discrimination is something from the past...

Even legal discrimination still happens:

https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/columnists/racial-discrimination-is-alive-and-well-in-st-louis-schools/article_2f808e89-2b4d-57e3-91d2-defb270af06c.html

In addition, how do you explain current racially segregated neighborhoods?

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2018/05/25/segregation-levels-in-st-louis-remain-high-study-finds

[RHMerriman]

19. You realize you posted a link to a case the Pacific Legal Foundation brought to fight AGAINST

You realize you posted a link to a case the Pacific Legal Foundation brought to fight AGAINST integration policies in public schools, right?

And neighborhoods in St. Louis are not legally segregated; they may be by economics or demographics, but they are not by law.

Next.

[guillaumeb]

3. Recommended.

Resistance to the idea that all are created equal is the root of this issue, in my view. Not all who oppose busing are racists, but sometimes there are no other options.

[Hoyt]

8. Good post. I've been having flashbacks to 50/60/70s since last night.

As you recognize, busing isn’t the issue.

It was grossly underfunded minority schools, white dominated local government often elected because they protected their own at expense of minorities, failure to place schools to draw from diverse enclaves, private schools to ensure segregation, etc.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. I just wish they look closely to what is happening with the kids

in these forced busing situations. They should have some kind of social life, or this is just an exercise in futility.

I learned in a personal manner, that the rules are different for white and non-white kids because of this busing situation. My daughter was good enough in soccer to be sought out by coaches in high school. Because the Magnet programs were taking off, she had options. But there was another loophole. One of the coaches told her that if she was willing to select the option "White" instead of hispanic, she could have her pick of schools.

Something very wrong about that.

[MineralMan]

20. Yes, sometimes busing is needed, but on grounds that are locally generated.

There's no blanket set of rules that apply to every school system. That's why it can be run by the federal government. Only at the state and local level are the needs ascertainable and the measures sensible.

It's not an issue where broad-brush solutions are workable.