I notice Joe Biden is being subject to extreme vetting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I guess that's fair as long as all the other candidates are subject to extreme vetting.

[onetexan]

1. I think he is more so because he's got the highest chance of

Standing up to & beating the idiot in the WH.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I will be honest. I didn't like the tone of some of his comments.

On the proverbial other hand he has the right to make the case he has grown in fifty years. I assume when he was vetted to be Barack Obama's running mate they were aware of his remarks on this topic and that topic and didn't find them disqualifying.

Anyway the overarching point is that if Joe is going to be subject to extreme vetting then the other candidates should be extremely vetted as well.

[MoonRiver]

14. I am 100% sure they will be.

[Control-Z]

39. Most will be.

But I doubt it will be all.

[MoonRiver]

44. Only the ones who aren't perceived as a threat will be spared.

[onetexan]

38. i get it, some of Joe's "gaffs" before were crinchworthy

but he was a model VP and didn't mind playing second fiddle to Obama, and when he debated miss Wasilla he was respectul and mindul. With him at the top of the ticket i don't doubt he will continue to be measured in his delivery.
Besides, his wife Jill would be a great First Lady

[cheezmaka]

59. I agree

I wouldn't bet on anyone else at this point. However, Bernie is the 2nd most likely in my opinion....

[samnsara]

2. yes i have noticed that too....you would think hes a woman as much hates being dumped on him..

[WheelWalker]

4. It's the crucible of politics.

Joe is the biggest threat to win it all, IMO, and therefore draws the most attacks from opponents. The vetting at this time will steel him for the run when he announces (as I believe he will).

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. Extreme vetting? How so? Joe hasn't even declared he's running yet...

Certainly nothing close to the extreme, and often ridiculous, scrutiny Bernie has received, before and after he declared his candidacy.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

17. Of course none of that is true.

but you knew that already.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

20. Really?! Joe has declared his candidacy?! Link please...but, you already knew none of that is true.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

22. Yes, really!1!1!1!1!1!2!1!1!1!1!1!1!1

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

49. Wow, Joe must have kept the announcement of his candidacy a super secret that only you know about!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

61. I know, right!!1!1!!!!!!1!

[workinclasszero]

32. Totally agree

DU will always be a safe space for Joe.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

67. It really is incredible what's happening.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[workinclasszero]

69. Imagine what DU will be like

when Bernie wins the nomination!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. Seriously! Maybe President Sanders will get some respect after he takes the oath of office

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[workinclasszero]

71. Maybe but around here?

We will see I guess.

[bkelly]

66. Yeah the worst

I see about vetting Biden is just showing him speaking on the floor of Congress.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

68. Yup, it's like tiddlywinks compared to the bashing going on with Bernie.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[dalton99a]

6. Where are the presumptive GOP nominee's tax returns?

[David__77]

7. I'm sure there will be plenty of that this cycle.

I think some posters on this site are looking forward to “extreme vetting.” Perhaps Democrats will end up with thoroughly unpopular candidates.

[LongtimeAZDem]

10. It's not a problem; if a candidate can't hold up to it, they shouldn't be president

[David__77]

11. It could certainly turn out for the best!

I look forward to voting against Trump in any case.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Reminds me of the concept of Advocatus Diaboli

During the canonization of Mother Teresa Chris Hitchens was brought in to testify as Advocatus Diaboli. She was too close to unsavory rich people like Charles Keating but if you're going to have saints you could do a lot worse than her.

[LongtimeAZDem]

8. Biden can handle it; he's been there

[floppyboo]

9. Consistent with Al Franken?

Very complicated space to be squeezed into.

I watched 'Trading Places' with my kids shortly after that fiasco. There's Franken and Beluschi on the train drunk and honking titties. Should we ban the movie too? It's all getting a little nuts.

[TwilightZone]

26. This might come as a surprise, but movies are not real.

They involve people who are called actors. Actors play roles. The roles are usually not representative of the actors themselves.

From what I understand, Daniel Day Lewis was not president of the United States in the 1860s.

[floppyboo]

34. you missed my point. Times change

This was, and by the # of Christmas views, still is acceptable. As a movie from the 70's.

The party decided that kind of behavior was not acceptable today, no matter how fictional or at-the-time acceptable it was then.

Not everyone agrees.

It's a sticky mess.

[BannonsLiver]

42. Trading Places was released in 1983, not the 70s.

And “John Beluchi” wasn’t in it.

[BlueStater]

43. He probably meant his brother, Jim. n/t

[BannonsLiver]

45. The dude in the scene with Franken was Tom Davis, his longtime writing partner.

[floppyboo]

46. did I say John? no I didn't.

Feels 70's. anyways, none of this is to the point.

[BannonsLiver]

60. Who cares what it "feels".

We try to engage in facts here.

[TwilightZone]

47. You have no point.

Movies aren't real life. All kinds of movies have unacceptable behavior and those movies transcend all eras, including the present.

"The party" doesn't spend much time analyzing one scene from a 35-year-old movie because of some apparent personal grudge against one of the actors, because that would be ridiculous.

[floppyboo]

48. yup - you missed it. Wasn't talking about the movie.

Was talking about Franken and the reason he was ousted. Some picture from the same time period as the movie. I was trying to put it in context - as in, the picture wasn't outlandish, or even new [edit: at the time, and to some degree now - considering the continued popularity of the movie], and the outrage didn't need some RW leak of a 'clandestine' photo. Oh well. We haven't got much further in addressing the gaffs from the past issue.
Do you have any thoughts on that?

How will Biden and Sanders, with their longer pasts, deal with changing standards? Should they both resign now, like Franken?

[TwilightZone]

54. "Wasn't talking about the movie."

Well, no, except for 95% of your post.

"Very complicated space to be squeezed into.

I watched 'Trading Places' with my kids shortly after that fiasco. There's Franken and Beluschi on the train drunk and honking titties. Should we ban the movie too? It's all getting a little nuts."

Nah, nothing about the movie there. Which, by the way, is still totally irrelevant. No one thinks that something an actor did in a movie and something a politician did in real life are comparable. Except for you, I guess.

[floppyboo]

56. Pppht

[EveHammond13]

12. indeed. media pretty smug about it too. after they ignored trump raped his own wife.

[EveHammond13]

13. media needs to remember Biden elected twice by national electorate. It's all baked in.

[Garrett78]

15. Most presidents are relatively young, partly because with time comes baggage.

Let's also remember that Biden has twice run before. He dropped out early in 1988 after facing accusations of plagiarism. He dropped out in 2008 after getting just 4% in Iowa. Pre-Obama Biden was never considered presidential material, and now he's 76 years old. And then there's the Anita Hill history to answer to in this Me Too era. Hill recently said Biden owes her and the nation an apology. Will Biden apologize or double down? Time will tell.

[peggysue2]

16. At the moment, Joe Biden . . .

is a threat to a number of candidates because of his popularity. So the opposition research machine has already geared up intent on bringing him down a notch, maybe even dissuading him from entering.

I don't think the latter will happen because he's reportedly putting together a team, reaching out to donors, making all the noises of someone ready to jump into the fray. I'm sure he's aware of the risks.

Time will tell but the hits will keep coming. And Biden--along with our other candidates--will have to respond to them.

It's the nature of the game.

[LongtimeAZDem]

18. And, by the time he declares (assuming he does), the media cycle will have largely moved on

[Garrett78]

19. Yes, it's what happens in any campaign. And those with more history are more susceptible.

[Renew Deal]

23. Biden will struggle in the Me Too era.

And it will be a sad sight

[OnDoutside]

24. I agree, and you can bet it will be egged on by the RW....they'll smell blood

[Garrett78]

25. Not 6 months ago Anita Hill said Biden owes her and the nation an apology. That's going to come up.

The racially-charged gaffes will, as well. Campaigns aren't a walk in the park.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

50. Politically speaking, it would be smart if Biden apologized.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

28. Only with people who still think it's 1991.

[LongtimeAZDem]

31. +1

[Renew Deal]

37. You don't have to go nearly that far back

There are plenty of photos from ceremonies that people will find interesting

[BannonsLiver]

41. Yes, I'm sure you believe that and want it to be true.

Doesn’t mean it will happen though.

[workinclasszero]

27. Just a taste

There is video of Joe out there pushing a 1994 crime bill that looks absolutely horrible in today's light and I mean horrendous.

I would post it here but the post would be immediately yanked undoubtedly.

Of course that won't stop the video from making the rounds on twitter, YouTube and reddit to name a few places on the internet.

Joe will have to face up to his past. Count on this stuff being featured heavily during the debates as well.

I see now why Joe has hesitated and not stepped into the race so far.

[Hortensis]

33. Sure you can. Btw, you badly misused a term and

inadvertently gravely insulted and misrepresented Democrats in another post.

So you know, neoliberal refers to hard core, laissez-faire, economic conservatism.

You know, the anti-regulation, anti-taxation ideology the Republican Party leaders serve? The Koch brothers are sometimes called neoliberal, though they prefer to dress up their renegade behaviors with the term "libertarian."

And, btw, the phrase "neoliberal centrist" would be an oxymoron even if one were talking about Republican billionaires. Neoliberalism is not just right wing but extreme right wing.

Hope this helps.

[emulatorloo]

36. There's some pretty heinous words Bernie said in support of the crime bill as well

and he listed his vote on it as an example that he was “tough on crime”.

But it didn’t seem to make any real impact on his candidacy in 2016. So it is hard to know how these things will play out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. The majority of the CBC supported the crime bill.

It also contained the Violence Against Women and the Assault Rifle Ban.

[emulatorloo]

64. Yes I know

[crazytown]

72. Biden on the Crime Bill

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. It was a different time. It was a different era. It was a response to a different set of problems.

More troubling is Joe Biden's remarks about integration and how busing fit into it.

[LongtimeAZDem]

58. The one Sanders voted for?

[redstatebluegirl]

29. I would definitely like to see Sanders

Go through a strong vetting this time including tax returns.

[LongtimeAZDem]

30. He will; there willl also be more questions about the culture of sexual harrasment and violence

in his campaign, and, judging by his response last time, he probably won't deal with it very well.

[Trenzalore]

53. It is only a matter of time

There are 3-5 people competing for that progressive space.

Frankly both him and Biden's age should be the biggest question.

[redstatebluegirl]

55. I agree about the age thing

but I do see where people are looking for a grownup with some experience to fumigate the white house. I know I want a calm, cool headed, smart, experienced leader next time. Right now I am leaning towards Kamala, but i have always like Joe Biden, he is a guy who knows what it is like to struggle since he saw his family do it. He loves the working man. If he was the nominee and picked Kamala as the VP I would be all over that. Or, if Kamala was the nominee and chose someone with more foreign policy experience.

I am still seriously undecided right now. Lord I wish Biden was 10 years younger, then it would be easy for me.

[Trenzalore]

57. It would be easy for me as well

I remember in 2008 being so excited when he was announced for Vice President and seeing him at a campaign rally wearing a Joe Biden shirt.

When you get into your late 70s unfortunately health can take a turn suddenly both mentally and physically. I love the guy and wish he would have ran 4 years ago. I would have been on board with that campaign.

We have too many leaders from the next generation that I view as adults. Whether that be Booker, Harris, or Klobuchar that I feel it is time to turn the page. I have a preference but those are my 3 and I'm fine with any of them.

[redstatebluegirl]

63. Yes, I am fine with any of those three right now.

Like many, I just want to beat Trump. I would vote for Bozo the Clown if I thought he could beat him.

[Gothmog]

35. I likr Joe Biden and it is clear that trump/the GOP are scared of him

Last edited Sat Mar 9, 2019, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)

[karynnj]

40. Vetting - yes, extreme vetting - no

In fact, most of what has been pulled up recently was stuff that was put out over a week or two in 2015 when he considered running.

I know that before most campaigns announce, they have "opposition research" done on themselves. The point is to develop responses ahead of time so when things come out, there is a polished response that minimizes the impact. The impact of anything depends on how big a deal the problem is and how good a response the campaign has to it.

Some of the Biden problems are because he has been a public figure (a Senator) since he turned 30 years old. On many issues, the consensus has changed and there are things that were commonly said then that no one would say now. Other issues are positions he took out of politics - like being a sponsor of several bad bankruptcy bills because he was from the Credit card capital - Delaware.

If he runs, I assume that he will have to make that long history a virtue. Maybe arguing that he has lived and learned and that he still is someone able to look at things with "new" eyes and change his opinion when he realizes he should - not because it is "popular", but because he realizes that he was wrong. He will need to make it a virtue to change rather than rigidly staying in the first position he ever took. However, he simultaneously should define the character elements that have been consistent through his long career - because without that he would appear to have no core.

[Trenzalore]

52. Joe has baggage

Any one that has had a career as long and as distinguished as his would.

I don't believe any of it is disqualifying.

[BooScout]

62. I've got a couple of issues with him...

All that being said....if he is the nominee, he has my support and my vote.

[Awsi Dooger]

65. Not a fraction of a fraction fully vetted

Biden would be on defense throughout. That's a guarantee given the length of his record and how outspoken he has been.

Republicans didn't expect to win with Trump in 2016 so I guarantee some of the most vicious and unfair tactics were never used, or yet to be contemplated. It is the reason that charisma is easily our greatest need in a 2020 nominee.