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Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 01:33 PM Jun 2019

Warren, among others, is absolutely right. The super wealthy must be forcefully countered

It's not about this or that billionaire being an intrinsically bad person. It's not that all super rich people are incapable of being empathetic of those who are much less fortunate. It's not that some super wealthy folks have not been true progressive heroes in either the past or present. It's that highly concentrated wealth in America is severely eroding our democracy, and consigning most Americans to an increasingly marginal economic existence, or worse.

I have a few very wealthy friends from prior business contacts. I like them, that's why they're my friends. They care about the suffering of others as much as most folks do. But human nature is what it is. They tend to think they earn every penny they make as much as any ditch digger or farm worker laboring in the hot summer sun does; likely even more because most super wealthy believe that while anyone can do unskilled labor their own "talents" are extraordinarily special, even if what they do is manage a hedge fund.

They think so even though they couldn't survive an hour doing hard manual labor in the noon day sun. They think so even though agriculture would collapse, and water systems would fall apart, were it not for the manual laborers who can. They think so exactly the same regardless of whether they get paid ten times the hourly wage of an "ordinary worker" or one thousand times the hourly wage of an "ordinary worker". By and large these people are incapable of curbing their own greed because the don't recognize it as greed at all, at most they simply acknowledge that they "are fortunate." They don't see any link between how their own good fortune contributes to the bad fortunes of others

When asked if they would rather earn more than less, most people reflexively say more. When asked if they would rather pay lower rather than higher taxes, most people reflexively say lower. The super rich are not so different when it comes to basic human nature. Sure, some are personally very generous. So are many very poor people, even though the cost of generosity for those living a marginal life style falls much more heavily upon them.The thing is that there are no true victims in a so called "war on the rich", because the rich will continue to thrive even if they are the so called losers in such a conflict. They will continue to be rich, only marginally less so.

The same is not true in the kind of sustained war on the poor and middle class that American has lived through now for several generations. When someone falls out of the middle class the hardships are very immediate and real. When further hardships fall on the already poor the consequences are frequently fatal. Each year millions more Americans find themselves living at or near the event horizon of an economic black hole that is swallowing their resources. At the literal core of that economic black hole is a tiny percent of a percent of Americans holding hyper concentrated wealth disproportionately in their hands. It this were merely a Star Trek episode the red alert alarm would be sounding, and whichever Captain was at the helm would be trying to enter full warp drive to back away from a pending apocalypse.

And much of the deadliest effects we are experiencing come not at the hands of the super wealthy themselves. They often are too well off to sweat the details involved in making themselves more wealthy. No, the most dangerous work is usually being done by those who work for them, that small army of trusted aids and advisers and hired guns who must perpetually justify their own existence by finding new ways to make their patrons even more wealthy, while also enriching themselves. In a society that by and large uses overt criminality as the yardstick for determining where lines should be drawn, the game plan is to custom write laws and regs to condone and facilitate the "legal" continued transfer of vast wealth to those at the very top of the economic pyramid. It is the way business is done, and it is how our government increasingly functions.

Elizabeth Warren is right. Bold ideas, bold actions, and bold structural changes are needed now, not later. Marshaling our forces to preserve small segments of an imperfect safety net is not the answer, not when the whole circus tent is ablaze. Bring on a wealth tax, bring on higher tax brackets, bring on stock transaction fees and the eradication of special interest loop holes in the tax codes. Nothing less will turn this ship around. We are at red alert, we must engage warp drive.

We have to deal with all of this head on, in the open, with a direct appeal to the American people to intervene. Measured, balanced tones will not penetrate, not when a call to arms is needed. When stolen goods are confiscated and returned to their rightful owners, that is not called Socialism, that is called Justice. And when it comes to putting food on the table, when it comes to healing the sick, caring for the old, educating the young and housing us all, simple justice is what the overwhelming majority of Americans seek. Democrats will do well in 2020 if we have the courage to fight for the people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Warren, among others, is absolutely right. The super wealthy must be forcefully countered (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 OP
Sorry, you lost me... brooklynite Jun 2019 #1
You tax (big time) to pay off the debt crazytown Jun 2019 #3
I wish it was JUST $16t......that's off by about $6t AncientGeezer Jun 2019 #7
I don't think that's what I said though Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 #5
It isn't just about taxes, but about political decisions that favor capital over labor. marylandblue Jun 2019 #6
Great post! Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #2
The petit bourgeosie Captain Zero Jun 2019 #4
Wonderful OP, Tom. BeckyDem Jun 2019 #8
Thnak you. n/t Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 #9
 

brooklynite

(94,657 posts)
1. Sorry, you lost me...
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 01:53 PM
Jun 2019

You start off saying " It's not that all super rich people are incapable of being empathetic of those who are much less fortunate." and then you say that your super rich friends are incapable of being empathetic. Then you go into bromides about how they all instinctively want to earn more and pay less in taxes.

Life isn't made of simple cliches. There are wealthy progressives and poor conservatives. There are people in each group that understand the bigger picture and people in each group that don't.

Taxes are a mechanism, not a solution. You build a consensus for the programs and social services you need, and then apply taxation accordingly, based on ability to pay. You don't tax in order to equalize incomes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
3. You tax (big time) to pay off the debt
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 02:10 PM
Jun 2019

16 trillion dollars. Don't tell me you expect working people with no savings to pay for all the affordable tax cuts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
7. I wish it was JUST $16t......that's off by about $6t
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 02:42 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
5. I don't think that's what I said though
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 02:19 PM
Jun 2019

For example regarding my friends, I absolutely did not say, nor do I think, that they are incapable of being empathetic. I said "They don't see any link between how their own good fortune contributes to the bad fortunes of others." That is a very different statement though I suppose there can be some overlap between those concepts. Someone can, for example, genuinely care about the environment and still have a blind spot about their casual use of a motor vehicle that gets mediocre gas mileage. What is lacking is not empathy, it is insufficient awareness of the need to accept some personal responsibility.

And in general I stayed away from blanket statements. For example I do not believe I went into "bromides about how they all instinctively want to earn more and pay less in taxes." I wrote "When asked if they would rather pay lower rather than higher taxes, most people reflexively say lower." First off, I did not say that covered everyone as you implied, second I did not target that statement to rich people only, I was talking about most people, and I was making an observation about human nature that is not specific to the wealthy or poor.

Whatever may be common to groups of people both rich and poor, and much is, in the economic realm someone who is poor and not paying their fair share in taxes potentially "robs" our collective representative government and the programs it supports by a small amount of money. Someone who is super wealthy who does the same thing (or advocates for tax policy that is particularly advantageous to their personal situation) can significantly impact the funding our government has to support worthy programs. Same personal motivation in a sense, very different impact.

It comes down to the fact that the rich and powerful have different levers that they are in a position to pull than most of us do. Again the underlying human instincts may be similar, but a relatively tiny handful of people can effect broad and sweeping changes through the exercise of their influence towards their personal ends while most of us can not.

When special interests have an undo ability in a host of ways to mold the tax laws, directly through the injection of money into our political system and indirectly through the financing of propaganda campaigns that warp our political system, the result is and has been a massive shift of wealth from average Americans to the elite. Redressing that systematic injustice in my opinion is not taxing in order to equalize incomes. It is attempting to both undo economic damage and restore the ability of government to pursue worthwhile objectives with essential funding.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
6. It isn't just about taxes, but about political decisions that favor capital over labor.
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 02:22 PM
Jun 2019

For example, making it easier to declare bankruptcy. Bad for the investment class and good for the working class. So we need to make a decision that it's better the "profligate" cancel their debt than to make sure the "blameless" lender gets paid back.

The terms I put in quotes are part of language we use to decide who deserves to bear the cost of bankruptcy, even when the debtor was desperate for cash and the bank knowingly made a bad loan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Captain Zero

(6,820 posts)
4. The petit bourgeosie
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 02:18 PM
Jun 2019

Always sell us out for their crumbs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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