Morning Joe taking shots at "Woke Nation"

[Funtatlaguy]

Is that who we are here?
Just what is the woke movement?
Is it the most progressive part of the party?
On Morning Joe, GOP strategist Mike Murphy and a few others are saying that Dems should be very careful not to decide to dump a moderate like Biden to nominate someone woke.
Murphy, by the way, hates Trump and said he would vote for Biden.

Is this supposed to make me feel better or worse about Biden.
I am personally much more liberal than Biden.
However, if I could be shown that Biden could definitely win (and win big enuf to have coattails to bring in a Dem Senate) then I’m fully aboard with him.
But, if I could be shown that someone more progressive could do the same thing, I would back them in the primary.

[theaocp]

1. I don't listen to the GOP.

They can keep their blind squirrels and broken clocks and fuck themselves.

[DownriverDem]

10. I do

You learn a lot about where the GOP is coming from. Besides Biden is our best choice to beat trump. The country is more moderate than many here at DU. So what to do? Biden should pick a strong progressive woman to run as VP. Biden/Harris would beat trump for sure. BTW I live in Michigan too. Michigan will go for Biden.

[olegramps]

13. We need a president that can promote from the center.

The last thing that we need is someone headstrongly left that will only embolden the radical right wing leading to more intense polarization. The problem is that Trump, even if he wanted to, can not take any position that the extremists would consider to be in any way accommodating with democrats.
The concept of compromise which is critical for the operation of a democracy is presently an impossibility. The polarization that has taken place within the Republican Party will either destroy our constitutional government or will result in its own destruction. It must be seriously hampered from pursuing its present course or as many no conclude the Republic is in a dire threat of being transformed into a authoritarian presidency with a cadre of plutocrats determining policy. At the present time I believe that Biden is the best choice for what will prove to be a daunting challenge. The Republican propaganda machine has to be discredited. No small task.

[Thekaspervote]

31. +1000

[Honeycombe8]

2. People in political talk shows are expressing their opinions.

People with brains are free to agree or disagree. Just like people on the MJ agree or disagree with each other. This is what political discourse is about, and is healthy in a democracy.

I don't have cable, so I have to see MJ via streaming (although there is a live podcast, which I missed this morning). So I'll have to watch it later.

But asking "what is the woke movement?" is not what I would call taking shots. As for me, what IS the "woke movement"? Never heard of it.

I looked up "woke" as it applies to politics. It seems it's an Af. American term referring to political awareness.

[Funtatlaguy]

4. I think the woke movement means you are fully in now.

Even if you never followed politics much before, Trump is so hideous that you are now fully awake and following what he is doing to the country.

[Honeycombe8]

8. I found it in Wikipedia.

Woke as a political term of African American origin refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice.[1] It is derived from the African-American Vernacular English expression "stay woke", whose grammatical aspect refers to a continuing awareness of these issues. Its widespread use since 2014 is a result of the Black Lives Matter movement.

[Autumn]

3. He's just trying to push who he wants as our candidate. Cons hate any progressive.

Fuck Joe. I haven't seen his ugly face since the early Bush years.

[Celerity]

12. he has a lot of centrists and 'moderate' (gag) Rethugs and ex-Rethugs on who hate Warren, which

pisses me off to no end. Plus a shit tonne of war hawks (not saying hawks for madness like Iran, but big-time 'always good to have an interventionist, active, kinetic war-engaging NATO as the world copper' types, ie. loved smashing Libya to bits).

One of the biggest Warren haters is Steven Rattner, they have had a feud for ages. He lost me for good when he said she was anti-capitalist and her anti-rich stance would destroy the Democratic Party. Rattner is an ex investment banker who has had to pay millions in fines for dodgy shite in the past, Andrew Cuomo forced him to cough up 10 million USD in one settlement.

[hlthe2b]

5. I remain undecided, but I will say that short of the polls (and trends in polls) NOTHING is going to

give you anything even approaching the guarantee that you seek. I suppose someone like Murphy and other "Never Trumpers" are trying to signal that there is some number of R's and Indies, like themselves that would go for Biden, but probably/possibly not the more liberal/progressives among the candidates. To the extent that makes sense or equates to significant votes, is up for debate. Given the narrow EC victory in three states last time, perhaps small numbers of such voters might make the difference.

The so-called "woke" wing of the party would argue that the key is getting more of our own to vote (and arguably a large percentage did not in 2016).

Short of a crystal ball, nothing and no one can give us the reassurances we seek in terms of which "way" to go. We will all have to weigh the 'evidence' and make the best decision possible.

One thing is for sure, IMO, policy-purity cannot be the deciding factor, but removing Trump surely must be.

[Funtatlaguy]

6. Of course, you are correct about a "guarantee".

I’m just so scared to death as to what a second Trump term would mean to the nation and the world.
Without a crystal ball, I’m afraid I will be left with the conventional wisdom that a moderate has a better chance of beating him than a true progressive would.
My brain wants me to go with the safe bet but my heart would rather roll the dice thinking this is such a great opportunity to usher in real change with a strong progressive.

[hlthe2b]

7. Well, we can all send a message in terms of VP selection. That may be our option if it comes to that

[marylandblue]

9. My brain tells me this in fact the right time for a progressive.

The signal that Trump sent is that people were unhappy with both parties. We had a competent experienced centrist who lost to a guy promising to blow up the system. Well it worked, he blew up the system, but now what? Somebody has to give us an overhaul.

Those blue collar union voters probably don't care if we impose soak the rich taxes as long as it gets them healthcare and a better job. Why should they care? They figured out the rich are gaming the system, that's why they wanted to blow it up to begin with.

[Demsrule86]

20. Looking at the midterms and the reality of the situation tells me it is not the right time and

won't be until you win a few American hearts and minds...we are a center left country much as the left attempt to deny this...we have always won with a big tent approach and a moderate candidate...if you look at the senate or the electoral college maps, this has not changed. The midterms show this...we won house with 40 moderates...the progressives took Democratic seats in most cases. If we run a progressive candidate like Elizabeth Warren, Trump will win reelection...every presidential year the left decides this is their moment but it isn't. And it won't be until we do the hard work to win more voters to our side...The senate and our chances going forward for any sort of majority without which nothing will get done, makes me want to weep.We need to win Trump is a monster. Biden is a good guy and the attempts to smear him only help Trump. We should be running on health care and not MFA but the ACA with a public option...we should be running on saving manufacturing using green new jobs and reviving traditional manufacturing...showing how the tax cuts hurt us and how endangered social security is if Trump win. We could lose the house if we run a left left candidate and then what?

[marylandblue]

21. Thanks That's a more substantial answer than most, so I can work with that.

The positions you outline are fairly progressive as is. What we now call "moderate" are closer to far left positions from 20 years ago, so it's not a stretch that someone further left could win. You might be correct that Warren is too far left. On the other hand, she is a good communicator, sounds convincing, and addresses the issues you raise.

Moderate or progressive, I am looking for a good communicator who understands the media. I don't buy that the problem is that Biden is being smeared and that helps Trump. They all get smeared, we have to deal with that.

I want a candidate who can stand up to smearing and squelch negative stories before they get legs. Bill Clinton and Obama did that and won. Dukakis, Gore, Kerry and Hillary did not and lost.

So the lesson I see, is that if you are blame the media or the critics, you will lose. If you work the media, you win. If Biden can't work the media and you think this smearing is actually hurting him, then it's better he goes down so we can pick a stronger candidate, rather than go down with his ship because we refused to be rescued by a more skilled captain.

[Demsrule86]

23. The smearing of our candidates during the primary has cost us the general more than once.

And this year, I find it unforgiveable for any candidate to engage in such a practice. Trump is too awful to contemplate...and should he win a second term, I am not sure the Republic will survive. I will vote for the nominee...but if we don't rebuild the blue wall, we lose. Biden can do that and I don't see another candidate that can. And this is not a 2020 issue. We have no path to the presidency currently without the blue wall...And I would add, I don't understand why any sitting senator including Sanders and Warren... who live in Republican controlled states are running...the senate is equally important to the presidency this year and every year.

[marylandblue]

30. There's no proof smearing in the primary cost us any election.

And even if there were, the political world is full of ambitious self-centered people. They wouldn't be in politics if they weren't. Biden is no exception. So expecting some sort of saintly restraint or rigid conformance to rules that don't serve themselves is simply unrealistic.

Fall of the Republic? Yes I agree. But I can easily contemplate a 2nd term for Trump. It will suck. But it's happened to many Republics before us. It's happening in several right now. We still have an illusion of American exceptionalism so have trouble seeing how it really could happen, even with Biden as our candidate. We have even more trouble seeing how it could happen even if Biden defeats Trump. That last part scares me more than anything else. We are literally marching down the path to ruin that every civilization before us has marched, and we are doing no better than they are in stopping it.

Trump is being underestimated again. Biden is being overestimated. This happens a lot in the world. We don't think an asshole like Trump should be rewarded, so we can't really handle it. It's part of being human I guess.

As for Sanders and Warren, Bernie is being Bernie and won't win anyway. If Warren wins, in MA the Governor appoints a temporary replacement and a special election is held a few months later, so we'll get the seat back.

[kcr]

11. I think that's exactly what they're doing and it shows what phonies they are

Any true Never Trumper, regardless of political affiliation, would chew their leg off to get to the polls to vote for anyone to get Trump out, not thinking about how they can use Trump to further their agenda. Their pretense that they have any leverage in this fight as right-wing "Never Trumpers" to tell us what candidate we should choose is laughable.

[Fresh_Start]

14. I think that there is a difference between being woke

and being willing to destroy everything and everyone to get what you want

As long as some of the woke members of our coalition are willing to drag everyone not woke through the mud, then we can count on the GOP remaining in power.

I would also say as long as the non-woke members of our coalition are willing to drag everyone woke through the mud, then we can count on the GOP remaining in power.

If we don't begin to act like the coalition matters, then we deserve to be damned

[Politicub]

15. Morning Joe is tailored to be controversial enough to

get people heated, but not so controversial that it looks like Good Morning Fox or whatever Fox's morning show is called. The GOP strategist, of course, would say that Dems need to do something because he has spent his career criticizing dems.

On a broader note, are we going to be able to get over the fact that the media will highlight conflict and sometimes expand little conflicts to big ones? That's what they do.

And they do it so much that it is pretty meaningless. Morning Joe is a good example. It comes on every day. That's a lot of programming that Joe and Mika need. Yesterday's show is forgotten as soon as the next day's show airs unless something upsets someone and then they run with it.

As a small town queer boy whose eyes were opened in college, count me in among the Woke. But in this cycle I've viscerally felt the important of a sea of woke people and the power that they have. It has helped me learn more about what social movements have in common and how we are stronger together.

[Demsrule86]

24. You see national elections are about winning...not social movements. And I suggest you look at the

Senate map...which is a sea of red and will be very difficult to win...look at the moderate victories of the midterms...feel good politics and social movements...well feel good and feed our soul but should not cost us victory at the ballot box.

[Politicub]

25. Don't electionsplain to me like you are some kind of oracle or guru.

It’s offensive.

Sometimes there are movements and other times there are not. Give people a reason to believe and an army of volunteers will be waiting.

2008 - a movement happened and it drove down-ballot success.

It takes a passionate, hungry electorate to get masses to the polls. The dems were fast asleep in 2016 and we know what happened then. The base turned out for the most part, but it was not enough. We need people to wake up for 2020.

It seems like you’re trying to make a case for boringness as the path to success. We will have to agree to disagree about that. I think that’s the road to failure nationally and locally. Leave it to the people running local races to decide how to best position themselves.

You see feel good politics. I see it as politics driven by the people with fire in their bellies.

[Demsrule86]

16. Moderates won the midterms and all evidence points to a moderate winning the General not a far left

candidate...now Biden is progressive but is perceived to be moderate which is why he can win and so called woke candidates won't win. I want to win. I agree with Biden about working with the other side if it is possible...It may not be but we have to try.

[Ace Rothstein]

17. We should definitely listen to Republican strategists when deciding our nominee.

NOT

[BeckyDem]

18. Why does any Dem listen to Morning Joe? I don't get it.

They should call it Mourning Joe. He is waiting for the return of Reagan.

[onecaliberal]

26. I call it morning blow. Dont watch, never have. I don't care what soulless republican bastards

Think about anything.

[BeckyDem]

27. Yep, totally!

[onecaliberal]

28. :

[Irishxs]

19. The debates are going to separate the substance from the junk. That's where

in my opinion, we will really begin to formulate a choice. You can bet not just dems will be watching, either.

[BannonsLiver]

22. Good for him. Finally something I agree with the SOB on

Bill Maher has been mocking “woke twitter” recently which I also find delicious.

Woke twitter is stringent purity, taking things from the past and juxtaposing that with today’s culture without perspective or context. And it’s also a lot of virtue signaling.

[redstateblues]

29. Warren can win the primary, but she can't win the General

I like Warren a lot. On DU we minimize her baggage but it's lurking in the shadows