I posted this and then deleted it because I don't want to alienate those here who I like

[DemocratSinceBirth]

IMHO the only candidate who can defeat Joe Biden is Joe Biden and he just might do so. He is gaffe prone. In the current instance I don't believe he's racist but his meanderings provide ammunition for those who want to believe he is. Part of the beauty of Biden is his every man personae but he needs to think before he speaks. If you give your opponents a sword don't expect them not to stick it in you.

He also put the Congressional Black Caucus in a tough spot. They are caught between defending him and the two major African American candidates in the race.

Bidensplaining is becoming onerous.

This is just disappointing...

[mainstreetonce]

1. Trump gets away with Trumpsplaining on horrible stuff.

We have to stop attacking our own candidate.

[Renew Deal]

3. He's not our candidate.

He's a candidate.

[shanny]

6. this

[Celerity]

17. +2

[33taw]

21. I consider all Democrats our candidates.

Don’t agree with everything they say, but I will stand with them. I think Biden is like a stupid uncle we laugh at him and groan at the same time, but he would stand up for all of us.

[susanr516]

27. Agreed

I will vote for the Democratic candidate for President with no reservations in November, but there are several candidates I prefer over Biden.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Because Trump hates the same people his supporters do

[marylandblue]

11. Trump only seems stupid. But he knows exactly what he is saying

and how it will be percieved. Biden is a smart, decent guy, but he doesn't have this particular skill. It's crucial if you want to beat Trump.

[customerserviceguy]

71. He only gets away with that

with Trump humpers. People with a minimum of intelligence don't buy it.

[Renew Deal]

2. It was predictable

He is only in the lead because people don't know other candidates well and people want to win. But both will change. Alternatives will become better known and their polling vs. Trump will improve.

Biden, Warren, and Sanders are unlikely to be the nominee.

[samnsara]

5. joes tough..hes dealt with worse people about worse things..

....just the tragedy of dealing with the death of his son, the death his young daughter and first wife. Hes known and suffered real pain and i dont think these complaints are going to distract him from the job of leading our country out of one of the darkest periods of our history.

[shanny]

7. it's not about him

[True Blue American]

9. This is the

6th or 7th attack Joe Biden top post today.

Time to move on.

[marylandblue]

13. The OP is undecided, but has been supportive of Biden.

I understand why s/he hesitated to post. It's not an attack, it's real disappointment.

[shanny]

20. ?

He's running for president. Stuff he has said and done, plus stuff he is saying or doing, needs to be looked at, and discussed.

It is not about attacking Joe Biden, or weakening Joe Biden, it is about us and our best candidate.

Which we are nowhere near determining.

[Thekaspervote]

35. Yes.. yes it is. The heart and soul of anyone comes thru in what we speak and how we act

[shanny]

36. oh, OK

Biden's heart and soul seems to be stuck a few decades back.

[BeckyDem]

8. It is an uncomfortable reality.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. He really needs to stop making these gaffes.

Someone has to sit down with him and give him some tough love.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. His call for comity is fine and it's okay to work

His call for comity is fine and it's okay to say you will try to work with people you disagree with for the common good. Joe, don't go past that, please.

[Voltaire2]

65. Comity is fucking dead.

It died after 2008, although it was on life support before that.

[cwydro]

68. Yeah, I didn't mind that so much, though I know others do.

But the “boy” comment was incredibly stupid imo, and I’m a huge fan of Biden.

It just got our side upset and the morons get to watch us gut each other; they don’t have to do a thing. This won’t be a winning strategy.

[womanofthehills]

26. It's the way he rolls, he will do more of the same

[zonkers]

28. Come on. When people hit a certain age they don't change.

[NYMinute]

12. Biden's gaffes are baked in - he is well known for that

People like Biden regardless.

Also, the segregationist thing was a deceitful misinterpretation of what he actually said. (May be the boy-son thing was a bit off)

In no way did he imply or signal that he was in favor of those racist senators and their policies nor did he imply or insinuate that he was sympathetic to their views.

[shanny]

38. Very true. He's a likeable guy.

That is not my main criteria.

[Demit]

14. I don't know if a 76 year old can change to think before he speaks.

I mean that honestly. He has said it himself: "I am a gaffe machine."

[ancianita]

16. ANY Democrat on his/her worst day is better than ANY Republican on his/her best day.

I support whoever can beat Trump, no matter the horse race journalism amplifications that cast doubt and try to upset party unity and voter interest in this party.

So no. I don't care about Bidensplaining. I don't care about the occasional disappointing comment.

I care about Biden's know-how in reconstituting a functional government fast enough to not only restore Obama's successes, but to tweak them, and then move progressively forward like the evolved leader he's equally proven himself to be.

The questions to ask are:

Will any of the other Dem candidates put this government back together domestically and internationally as fast as Joe?

Will any of the other candidates have a gaffe moment or two, and will they get the same attention that Joe now gets?

Will any of the other candidates be able to beat the incumbent's stream of provocations, interruptions and rude insult in debate?

[shanny]

23. I'd support him for SecState in a heartbeat.

Top of the ticket? Nope. Just as he was NOWHERE NEAR the top of the ticket in 2008. His strengths--and he does have them--lie elsewhere.

[ancianita]

40. Which candidate beyond him is most likely to beat Trump and get national votes?

Did you read my questions? What would you say about them?

[shanny]

46. Any of the top 5 can win, maybe more.

Given that few aside from political junkies like us are aware of much of anything and yet we are polling that way (i.e. tRump is WEAK) I have high confidence.

And I'd love to see Inslee as SecInterior or climate car.

btw we are WAY past the "tweaking" stage, on anything

[pnwmom]

18. His strength and weakness are the same thing: he is a major extravert.

Not all politicians are. Hillary Clinton wasn't -- but Bill was. Obama wasn't but his VP was.

People love extraverts but one of their features is they don't always think first. As one extraverted friend said to me, she finds out what she thinks AS she's saying it out loud.

Introverts make fewer of these mistakes because we don't say out loud every thought that comes into our heads. We think things through first, and then say them.

But people love extraverts because they know extraverts love them. That's why politicians like Bill and Joe can get away with mistakes that would torpedo the campaign of an introvert, whose feelings are more outwardly restrained.

[crazytown]

37. I would judge Beto and Warren to be an extroverts nt

Warren less so, but on the extrovert side of half way.

[pnwmom]

43. That's how I view them, too, or possibly

Warren might be a happy medium? Very thoughtful but also outgoing.

[crazytown]

45. Elizabeth does not have the problem of saying one thing in public

and the perception of saying another in fundraisers - there are no fundraisers. A Republican strategist is reported to have said, she's authentic, you know what she stands for, she speaks her mind, and, as such, is a threat to 'dear leader'.

[marylandblue]

39. Bill didn't gaffe like Joe. And Joe didn't get away with it, he failed twice.

[Voltaire2]

66. He got away with it as Obama's VP.

But that’s because basically nobody cares what the VP candidate says or does, within very broad limits. You have to go full Palin to actually damage a campaign.

[cwydro]

69. "Full Palin!"

I love that!

And so true. Any of ours would have to go a long way to go full Palin lol.

[erlewyne]

19. Biden is not the answer.

He is empty.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. That's unduly harsh and goes well beyond my assessment of him and his character.

I do think he sometimes belongs to another era like the other septuagenarian male in the race.


Hopefully, Cory, Beto, and Kamala will get some traction.

[Cha]

54. It's unduly ignorant, too.

[cwydro]

70. That's an understatement.

“Empty?” Wtf?

[BannonsLiver]

31. Empty how?

Like in his soul?

The crazy sure is getting thick around here.

[Cha]

53. And, by that gratuitious insult you

showed you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

[Blue_true]

62. He is not empty. He has proven that he has a lot of substance.

But he is prone to putting his foot into his mouth, and that can be a problem. Trump gets away with that, the press gives him leeway, they won't do that for a democrat.

[yaesu]

24. JB is not perfect, but he's presidential, he brings with him a wealth of political & governmental

wisdom. He very well could be an easy target, have a Dean moment , but lets give him a chance to prove he is the best candidate, just like the others must prove.

[zentrum]

25. When someone

.....shows who they are, believe them.

[pecosbob]

29. I've 'known' Joe for a long time...Joe is Joe

Gaffe machine has always been his reputation...a 'working class' Senator (if such a thing is actually possible) that rode the train to work like the average 'Joe'. But never was he considered true 'Presidential' material in any primary season where Dems had strong candidates. A guy you wanted on your side, but maybe not flying the plane. Just my two cents.

[zonkers]

30. When Joe sarcastically asked if it was OK to hug his wife

I knew we were in for a ride. It was so tone deaf. I’m sure I wasn’t the only one that cringed.

[BannonsLiver]

32. I think he's frustrated

And yes, there are people who would probably critique how he hugs his wife. That’s where we are as a culture now.

[TwilightZone]

34. Some people went insane when Al Gore kissed his wife on stage at the convention

So, there's precedent, even.

[zonkers]

44. I live in a Latino neighborhood...

Among coworkers, “greeting” hugs are common. This is such a gray area of
cultural appropriateness. Best to just be cautious and not go there. Same w/recent gaffe. I don’t know why he just doesn’t have the good sense to sidestep all the controversy all together. Even worse doublesdown.

Hey Joe we need you to save the free world from the orange turd. Can you stop tring winning the battles and losing the war?

[marylandblue]

48. They might, but it's all in his response. He is clearly frustrated, but

he can't act that way. He's got have a smart response. Clinton coukd spin any story his way. Obama responded with poise and eloquence. Trump throws so much crap at the wall, everyone is just covered in shit.

[colsohlibgal]

33. He Is From A Different Era

He just seems to have a hard time comprehending times have changed.

I think he is too old.....again if he got 2 terms he would be 86 at the end....82 at the end of his first term.

Elizabeth Warren is no spring chicken either but at the end of her two terms she would be about Joe’s age right now.

Like Warren a lot but would not be disappointed if the younger Kamala Harris won. And the candidate I have been most impressed with, listening to her express her views of our problems and possible solutions is Marianne Williamson. I know someone I trust, Thom Hartmann, is a big fan of her but she has a very slim chance, like most of the fringe candidates.

[ancianita]

42. Do you think your guy can beat Trump and get the nation's votes?

[FakeNoose]

41. If PBO is backing anyone in this race, you can bet it's Joe

I agree with you that Joe sometimes makes mistakes. But he's also the most likable guy in the bunch, the guy that you can sit down and have a beer with. Joe can (and will) win Pennsylvania, and probably most of the midwestern swing states. Maybe even Ohio, if it's possible to win it from Sherrod Brown.

My point is we have to go with a winner and we have to trust that he's getting good advice from PBO and a lot of other smart people. If your first choice is Liz Warren then I would say the same for her, except maybe not quite as much love from Obama. The primary season is long and exasperating for many reasons. Let's help each other out by keeping our eyes on the prize.

Chump will lose next year, you can take that to the bank and cash it.

[marylandblue]

50. Trump broke every rule in the book and won. So throw out the rule book and the advice.

IMO, we need to go for candidates who win by making their own rules. Warren isn't taking advice from anybody. She created her own style and it's working.

[FakeNoose]

51. Obama's backing will bring in the votes - you wait and see

[marylandblue]

52. I really doubt it. Obama's backing did not help Hillary. Why?

Because she isn't Obama. She can't do what he does. She can only do what she does. Same with Biden and everyone else.

[Voltaire2]

67. Obama is going to back whom ever is the

nominee, so that factor is the same for everyone.

[Politicub]

58. Yes. This x 1,000!

[Peacetrain]

47. Hey DSB.. its exhausting I know..

[Cha]

59. Am I right, Peacetrain?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=158819

[Blue_true]

49. I am suddenly at odds with people that I have really gotten along with over Biden.

Like you, I feel that he really needs to think a lot about what he plans to say. In today's environment, loose words can become an albatross around one's neck.

Some of what Booker and Harris did is politics, but most of it is likely because they are the only ones that have lived every day of their lives as an African American, and they KNOW what that is like.

[Ferrets are Cool]

55. Agree 100%

[Politicub]

56. It is becoming onerous

Biden said his bit about cooperation, and a can of crazy was opened.

It started out innocently enough. People were surprised that he used the two segregationists as examples of the type of people he was able to work with in congress. It was a fumble and he was criticized for it. But it happened. So what happened next?

Cory Booker jumped in -- opportunistically, I might add -- demanding an apology. That didn't help matters, but it could have ended there.

Sadly, it didn't, though. Biden decided to demand an apology from Booker. That was a misfire on Biden's part. He should have just let it rest. No one would have even remembered.

I don't know in what order the folks in the Congressional Black Caucus weighed in -- pre- or post-booker or after Biden called on Booker to say sorry.

But then that happened. Agree that they were in a tough spot.

Now we're in day 2 of this sorry saga. DU is crawling with disruptors saying Biden is a racist. It is a stupid, moronic thing to say and has nothing to do with criticizing his poor choice of senators to highlight. Absolutely nothing. The people that say it are toxic.

I want the disruptors who are saying that to be run out on a rail, but I don't have that power. It's probably a good thing that I don't. I just use my ignore button and alert liberally when I see them and their posts. That's what they're for.

It is happening here: Volume 1 of the Mueller report lays out some of the techniques that Russian operatives used to infiltrate Facebook groups. I'm sure they and their right wing counterparts in the U.S. use the same approach with message boards like this one. The operatives hang out for a while to build trust and amp up their post count. Then when something like the gaffe happens, they pounce. They are skilled at getting shit like the racism charge started.

This is the media -- no, communications -- environment in which we live. Congress is not going to do anything about overseas actors. Warren and Buttigieg are learning to navigate this world by leveraging social media and public appearances. Beto knows the power of the stump and keeps the funnel filled with appearances. I think Harris needs to do more since she will be a lightening rod if she becomes the front runner.

But Biden and his campaign are virtually silent. That's something else I don't understand. He had the opportunity to weigh in on issues in the NY Times piece that had answers to a series of questions. The Times piece is getting covered elsewhere as well as Biden's absence from it. His campaign is being run like a command-and-control campaign of the past. We are in a new time and fighting on a new battlefield. The enemy is Trump and he is something new. Everything is new this cycle when it comes to the perception of news and the use of social media.

It's hard work to figure out. But it's necessary work.

The snails pace of the Biden people is making me want to tear my hair out.

[crazytown]

61. The SOP is to praise the person that is attacking you,

agree with what you can, followed by a qualified defence that explicitly respects the other persons point of view, particularly in a primarily when you are courting / seeking not to alienate a candidate’s supporters.

[Cha]

57. It's okay.. say what you want.. I don't think

you or anyone else who have tried to bring down Biden have changed any Biden Supporters' minds.

Of course, your OP is mild compared to some of them.

That's what these primaries are for.. to see who can weather everything thrown at them. And, be tough and resilient enough to beat trump head on in the GE.

[dawg day]

60. i agree-

It really shouldn't be a big ask-- think before you speak. Remember we need to get the base to turn out enthusiastically and hugely. He has enormous goodwill among Democrats... don't waste it on irrelevant and offensive trips to the memory banks.

[IronLionZion]

63. His staff advised him not to use a segregationist example and choose someone else

so it was not impulsive, he made a poor choice of messaging without considering the consequences or who it impacts and that says something about his judgment.

We need a president who connects with a more diverse America. I doubt Biden gained many Trump voters with this message. Trump works with white supremacists, bigots, criminals, and Russians. Should we applaud Trump for working together to get things like detention camps and travel bans done?

A Republican example would have been better than a segregationist. Plenty of Republicans supported civil rights since the parties were different back then. I thought Biden was going after the industrial midwest states, not the segregation states.

[Voltaire2]

64. I have policy differences with Biden

(Or at least I had policy differences, hard to know for sure right now), but my major concern is his lack of discipline and habitual foot swallowing.