Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumNYT: Biden's son's dealings with Ukraine and Trump/Gulliani plan to capitalize
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.htmlsnip
The Trump teams efforts to draw attention to the Bidens work in Ukraine, which is already yielding coverage in conservative media, has been led partly by Rudolph W. Giuliani, who served as a lawyer for Mr. Trump in the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. Giulianis involvement raises questions about whether Mr. Trump is endorsing an effort to push a foreign government to proceed with a case that could hurt a political opponent at home.
Mr. Giuliani has discussed the Burisma investigation, and its intersection with the Bidens, with the ousted Ukrainian prosecutor general and the current prosecutor. He met with the current prosecutor multiple times in New York this year. The current prosecutor general later told associates that, during one of the meetings, Mr. Giuliani called Mr. Trump excitedly to brief him on his findings, according to people familiar with the conversations.
Mr. Giuliani declined to comment on any such phone call with Mr. Trump, but acknowledged that he has discussed the matter with the president on multiple occasions. Mr. Trump, in turn, recently suggested he would like Attorney General William P. Barr to look into the material gathered by the Ukrainian prosecutors echoing repeated calls from Mr. Giuliani for the Justice Department to investigate the Bidens Ukrainian work and other connections between Ukraine and the United States.
Mr. Giuliani said he got involved because he was seeking to counter the Mueller investigation with evidence that Democrats conspired with sympathetic Ukrainians to help initiate what became the special counsels inquiry.
Rudolph W. Giuliani, President Trumps personal lawyer, called for investigations into the Bidens connections with Ukraine.CreditJoshua Roberts/Reuters
I can assure you this all started with an allegation about possible Ukrainian involvement in the investigation of Russian meddling, and not Biden, Mr. Giuliani said. The Biden piece is collateral to the bigger story, but must still be investigated, but without the prejudgments that infected the collusion story.
snip
The younger Mr. Biden said in the statement, At no time have I discussed with my father the companys business, or my board service, including my initial decision to join the board.
Mr. Lutsenko denied any political motivation in reopening the case.
more at link
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)It was fine when Manafort did it.
So, they changed their minds when it was Biden's son?
Well, of course they did.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
enid602
(8,620 posts)/Ukraine is not an adversary. Manafort worked for Yanukavich, who was a Putin puppet. He never reported his earnings as a foreign agent.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Trump's Gotta Go!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)These fucks need to get better at swiftboating
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lucky Luciano
(11,257 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)And unlike Trump, Biden intends to continue producing his tax returns. Trump, on the other hand, is suing Congress to stop them from getting his returns. And Trump lied about not having a business deal with Russia (Trump Tower Moscow). Biden has had no business deals with Russia, ever.
All this story shows is that Trump's campaign is still conspiring with a foreign country (Ukrainian prosecutors) to damage his political rival.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,322 posts)Mahalo nui loa!
ETA.. Two Tweets courtesy of highplainsdem from down thread..
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
NYT.. gossip mongers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Kinda like when media feel compelled to quote a climate chsnge denier every time they do a story on how climate change is fucking us up.
There is no "other side" to truth, for fuck's sake.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,516 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Syncophants...moved on to the kid...and such irony considering Trump's behavior.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Last edited Thu May 2, 2019, 01:51 AM - Edit history (1)
RW media for a while, trying to make something of the Obama administration insisting the Ukraine government get rid of a corrupt general prosecutor (equivalent to our attorney general).
The actual facts, from Foreign Policy, October 30, 2016:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/30/what-will-ukraine-do-without-joe-biden-putin-war-kiev-clinton-trump/
-snip-
Bidens brand of tough love became more pronounced as the old ways of Ukrainian politics resumed. Despite a series of measures to increase government transparency and salvage the countrys teetering economy, Kiev began to slow and in some cases completely halt carrying out anti-corruption reforms.
Public dissatisfaction was growing in late 2015 with Poroshenkos choice for general prosecutor: Viktor Shokin, a veteran of Ukrainian politics and a close associate of the president. Shokin fumbled the corruption case of a former Yanukovych crony and let him flee the country.
The position of general prosecutor, who is appointed by the president, enjoys outsized importance in Ukraine and is often used to exert pressure on rivals and cut deals for political and commercial gains. The Maidan revolution was supposed to bring an end to this type of horse-trading, but Shokin served as a reminder that little had changed. He reinforced that perception by hindering an investigation into two high-ranking state prosecutors arrested on corruption charges and after Economy Minister Aivaras Abromavicius cited him by name before quitting in protest over the delayed reforms.
Dismayed by Poroshenkos backtracking, the White House withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees until Shokin was fired. Biden delivered that message directly to Poroshenko over the phone.
Petro, youre not getting your billion dollars, Biden recalled telling the president in an interview with the Atlantic. Its OK, you can keep the [prosecutor] general. Just understandwere not paying if you do.
From the Irish Times, March 29, 2016, "EU hails sacking of Ukraines prosecutor Viktor Shokin":
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190
Ukraines parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutors office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.
-snip-
Mr Tombinski said the EU was also concerned about the resignation or dismissal of several reform-oriented prosecutors and reports that Mr Shokins office was investigating a highly-respected anti-corruption group an obvious reference to Kievs Anti-Corruption Action Centre, which had fiercely criticised Mr Shokin.
In what appeared to be his last act before dismissal, Mr Shokin sacked his deputy, Davit Sakvarelidze, who had repeatedly called for his boss to be fired.
-snip-
Trump and his supporters are now trying to push a conspiracy theory that Biden used American aid to Ukraine to shut down an investigation that might have eventually involved his son Hunter. Never mind that the European Union and many in Ukraine knew just how corrupt Shokin was.
I'm disgusted that the NYT's Ken Vogel went with this non-story. At least he shows the Trump administration is pushing this, but still...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indygram
(2,113 posts)And just as an offside...there are advantages to nominating someone whose children are too young to have embarrassing issues or scandals.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dalton99a
(81,516 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Crowman2009
(2,497 posts)I don't take anything that grown up bat boy says to be truth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)To be his partner in sleeze. Christy less likely to commit crimes.
Still think Rudy responsible or at least involved in that late announcement about reopening Hillary investigation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Tad Devine worked in Ukraine years before he joined Bernie's campaign and that's quite a big deal here.
Kind of interesting that this is not.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)before he started working for Sanders.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-bernie-sanders-ad-man-who-played-paul-manaforts-game/2018/08/01/0df78c18-95c7-11e8-a679-b09212fb69c2_story.html
Thanks to Robert S. Mueller IIIs prosecution of Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman and sometime business associate of Devine, we now have an unusual glimpse into the role the Democratic ad man had in electing and preserving the power of Ukraines Viktor Yanukovych, a crooked pro-Putin autocrat. Though American political consultants routinely rake in cash from foreign leaders even shady ones Devines seamless pivot from advocate for antidemocratic thug to champion of a principled democratic reformer shows extraordinary flexibility.
Yanukovychs fraudulent election in 2004 as Ukraines president was invalidated, but not before his opponent was poisoned by dioxin. Yet testimony in the Manafort trial and documents released by Manaforts lawyers show Devine helped Manafort on Yanukovychs comeback as prime minister in 2006 and successful presidential run in 2010. Devine produced a memo of advice for Yanukovychs party in 2012, even though by then Yanukovych had thrown the leading opposition politician in jail and had built a $100 million mansion complete with zoo, helipad, golf course and replica galleon on an artificial lake while his people were, in Devines own words, struggling with joblessness, hunger and the general despair.
Yanukovych was ousted in 2014 after he halted Ukraines movement toward the European Union, yet Devine offered to help Manaforts efforts in the 2014 Ukraine election for a price. We are ready to take on this project, he wrote to Manafort partner Rick Gates, for $100,000 per month (payable in advance), $25,000 per week of runoff, a $50,000 success fee and expenses including first-class airfare. In June 2014 even as talks about the Sanders presidential run were getting underway Devine went to Ukraine to help remnants of Yanukovychs party reforming under a new name. My rate for something like this would be $10,000/day, including travel days, he wrote to Gates.
-snip-
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,991 posts)That would also be the year that,
He was paid about $50,000 per month through accounts linked to Burisma. He stepped down last month when his term expired."
And even though,
and,
It's obvious that the GOP slime machine is going to have a field day with this. It's a replay of uranium one, or emailgate, or Hillary's health, or pizzagate, etc. etc. etc.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Clarity2
(1,009 posts)Tad Devine works for Putin. I.e. in the mueller report, bernie and trump were both explicitly supported by russia. Add that into the lack of bernie voting on sanctions, anti-nato, pro-nato 2.0 with russia. Devine was to sanders what manafort was to trump. Am I getting that right?
And Jill Stein was the punter, calming our fears that the election results were legit with her half assed recount.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Tad Devine are about. This looks like a deliberate obfuscation to deflect from Bernies relationship with him at a time when Paul Manafort was conducting criminal operations attacking our elections here. Tad Devine and Paul Manafort both ran the opposition campaigns against Hillary....
worked in Ukraine...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Honestly, I'm not obsessed with this whole Devine thing like many here seem to be. I just did a little googling about it and from what I gather he made a bunch of money on a campaign in the Ukraine for a couple years with Manafort (it seems a lot of Dem political strategists were making $$$ in the Ukraine at the time). And then later he testified against Manafort.
In the late 2000s and early 2010s, high-powered political operatives who found themselves drawn to Tymoshenko and Yanukovych remunerative cage match included not only Manafort and Devine, but Democratic super-lobbyist Tony Podesta and Clinton strategist Mark Penn on the pro-Yanukovych side, and Paul Begala and David Axelrods firm, AKPD Message and Media, on Tymoshenkos. Nor did the trend stop after Yanukovych assumed power and began jailing his rivals: a Reuters article from 2013 reported that pro-Yanukovych groups had paid two of their Washington representatives $1.46 million, with $900,000 going to the Podesta Group. A lot of people are making a lot of money off Ukraines political competition, Bruce Jackson, president of the Project on Transitional Democracies, told Reuters at the time.
I just found out a couple minutes ago that Devine hasn't been with the Sanders campaign since Feb.
I guess I need to up my hypercriticalness game.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)what the issue was. I see you skipped over everything about the 2016 campaign...so you probably have a good idea already. I already brought up the opposition campaigns against Hillary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
1. I skipped over it because I thought this thread was about Ukraine stuff.
2. I don't have a good idea about his involvement in the opposition campaigns against Hillary. As I said above, I've not been obsessed about it as others have. All I remember is DU going ape-shit about the Devine and Manafort connection.
Feel free to educate me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)As if just working in Ukraine was the subject, when that wasnt it.
Now you are saying Devine Manafort connection.
Seems like you know enough to try and deflect now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Same thing, right? I'm not trying to deflect anything. They both worked on the campaign in the Ukraine.
What I don't know about (and am still trying to understand) is your statement that "Tad Devine and Paul Manafort both ran the opposition campaigns against Hillary...." Are you saying they cooperated in this venture?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)that is how it ended up here
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,991 posts)in the middle (politically and geographically), stupid shit like this can be used to convince them that there is something shady about the candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)to speak out.
The RW distortions that I've seen are trying to portray this as Biden somehow being given the right to threaten to withhold $1 billion from Ukraine just to stop an otherwise blameless prosecutor from investigating a company that Biden's son had some involvement with. You'd never know from the RW coverage that Shokin was corrupt and other governments as well as Ukrainians, including their parliament and other prosecutors working with him, wanted him out. President Obama apparently told Biden to make it clear the US would use what leverage it had, and now this action to stop corruption is being treated as corruption.
But of course everything is upside down in Trumpworld.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Two tweets from Legum, starting with this one (text of both below):
Link to tweet
Rudy goes to the NYT and says Joe stole a pack of gum
Rudy has no evidence to prove it. Neither does the NYT
NYT decides to write a story about how MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING Joe stole a pack of gum
Its not journalism. Its the worst kind of gossip
From Jon Favreau:
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Talking Points Memo (subscription normally needed, but it's also on their RSS feed):
...
Giuliani and Trump have asked Attorney General Bill Barr to get the material Ukrainian prosecutors have assembled and start his own investigation in the US.
...
I dont think we need to assume that Hunter Biden is the cleanest guy in the world. I have no idea. We know that lots of Americans were making money in semi-lawless Ukraine over the last decade. The idea that Biden was doing anything to help his son seems extremely strained. But thats not really the point. The Presidents private lawyer, unbound by any government regulation or responsibilities, is practicing unauthorized foreign policy on the Presidents behalf, the goal of which is to use the Presidents power to get other countries to attack his political enemies at home. Both Trump and Giuliani are then asking Bill Barr to open companion investigations targeting Trumps political enemies.
This is how corrupt, broken states operate, banana republics. Everything weve seen from Bill Barr tells us he will happily participate in this kind of corruption. Meanwhile, Giuliani spends lots of his time visiting foreign capitals in the last 18 months, nominally on private business. We have almost no visibility into what most of those visits are about. This is one example. What other stuff dont we know about?
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/prime-beta/the-threat-of-bill-barr-lawlessness-is-much-worse-than-you-think
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Link to tweet
The Crook-in-Chief likes the failing fake news NYT when it smears Biden, or Hillary Clinton.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)
Post removed
Cha
(297,322 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elfin
(6,262 posts)His actions through the years are indications to me of a troubled fellow in the shadow of a favored son and an accomplished and admired Dad.
I think he is troubled -- not bad. His behavior is a problem for Joe and the campaign. This deal may be perfectly legit -- but it looks bad. That's all it takes. Just ask Hillary.
Wouldn't matter except Joe is a DEMOCRAT.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Zoonart
(11,869 posts)Biden: You've seen my taxes. i have no connection with any foreign entiey. My son is not my campaign manager...nor will he be advising me on the WH.
Show me your taxes MF45.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)While covered in slime, they claim everyone does it when the other side burps.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
delisen
(6,044 posts)who has been involved in nasty deals overseas and I think the current legal investigations may have info on Giuliani.
Biden addressed this as vp. Although it was reported at the time it occurred, mostly people did not notice or care.
The big story is the number of Republicans with money ties to Russia and I think it will be coming out.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Baclava
(12,047 posts)I said, Youre not getting the billion. Im going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: Im leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, youre not getting the money, Biden recalled telling Poroshenko.
Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time, Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event, insisting that President Obama was in on the threat.
https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)But now Biden's running for president, Trump is terrified of him, and some people see a way to twist this old incident into a fake scandal to try to hurt Biden and curry favor with Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Recognize it for what it was, strong foreign policy, and move on
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)perceived benefit of their chosen candidate, this should end.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)that this was some kind of conspiracy to protect Hunter Biden. Credible media outlets had been ignoring this story while RW media and professional smearmongers like John Solomon were hyperventilating over it, so I was sorry to see the NYT give it front-page coverage.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
themaguffin
(3,826 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)hit piece on Neera Tanden.
Now hes doing Rudy Giulianis bidding and using Ukrainian dirt to try to smear Biden.
Im not sure what team Vogel plays for but it aint America.
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)1. Biden, as vice president, demands that Ukraine and its prosecutor general do a better job in fighting corruption in the country (which is a sad fact of Ukrainian and former Soviet life)
2. The prosecutor general at the time ends up stepping down.
3. One of the few corruption cases that the prosecutor general had been pursuing at the time was into a company which had Joe Biden's son Hunter as one of many of its corporate board members.
4. That case ends up being dropped, but the new prosecutor general eventually reopens it.
5. Nowhere is Hunter Biden accused of doing anything wrong at all other than happening to be one of many board members on this company being investigated.
6. Rudy Giuliani is a pathetic joke and a huge asshole.
7. Ditto Donald Trump and Bill Barr.
That's it. That's all there is.
This is just of those convoluted Whitewater non-scandal scandals that Republicans will latch onto to smear an opponent, even as their own president sits in office thanks to the single most egregious foreign interference in US History and even after he has repeatedly sought to obstruct the investigation into that interference.
Also, again, Giuliani, Barr and Trump are all pathetic jokes and huge assholes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)Everything today is different because its international, human rights, huge money deals and corruption-related, and full of dark money.
Hunter Biden may have headed a 2 million dollar Hedge Fund for awhile but it was a small time investment by todays standards.
Giuiliani is trying to kick sand in our eyes to keep us from seeing the big corruption of Republican billionaires and office holders.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Remember what swift boating IS. Kerry was a hero of the swift boat, his troops loved him, he saved lives. But by the time it was over, he was a traitor while Bush was a hero for defending Alabama.
They did stuff to Clinton and Obama too. How did they survive? Swift and aggressive responses, that's how. Not hoping it will go away.
Joe are you paying attention?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)It's not about fact checking, because some of the dumbest crap ends up becoming a big deal, but how you respond.
Seems to me the way to go is to quickly deflect, turn it into a positive, then pivot to a more substantive issue. I've seen Pete do this, but I haven't seen Biden do it as effectively. It's still early, so time will tell.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)So of course everyone else has fatal flaws and Biden has no weaknesses at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #46)
marylandblue This message was self-deleted by its author.
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)He claimed he was non-political, doesn't watch FOX, and hadn't voted for Trump, but he repeated all of the standard anti-Hillary crap.
I wondered where he'd gotten this. Now I know. This is how they roll and, sadly, too many people who think they're non-political, swallow it hook, line and sinker.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)This is from Oliver Bullough -- read more about him here, in an NPR interview
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/01/719001286/moneyland-reveals-how-oligarchs-kleptocrats-and-crooks-stash-fortunes
and I found his thread because it was linked to by ThinkProgress reporter Casey Michael, one of many journalists criticizing Vogel for his foolish story.
I found the Casey Michael tweet because it was a reply to one of Vogel's tweets attempting to defend his story.
Bullough's take starts with this tweet -- full text of the thread below:
Link to tweet
Hunter Biden was clearly wrong to take a job working for Burisma, but it's laughable to suppose his presence was of any importance to decisions being taken by Ukrainian prosecutors who were guided entirely by who was going to pay them more.
I am not supportive of Joe Biden particularly but anyone in Ukraine who knows anything about the prosecutors' office under Poroshenko was delighted when he insisted that Shokin be sacked. This had nothing to do with his no-mark son.
Any US journalists looking to follow this up, get in touch, and I'll put you in touch with some people who actually know what happened.
Protip though: officials in foreign countries are usually less swayed by the actions and opinions of Americans (with the exception of portraits of Benjamin Franklin) than Americans think they are.
Bullough obviously isn't a Hunter Biden fan (neither am I), but he does know how the political system over there works.
And he called BS on Vogel's story very effectively.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)I see a lot of denial here. I won't spell it out for you because I want to save my hides for when we get deeper into the primary, but it isn't rocket science.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mme. Defarge
(8,034 posts)BRING. IT. ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make our day, nest-ce pas?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DVRacer
(707 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Those of you promoting this should be ashamed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MFM008
(19,816 posts)Crooked dealings does he want to draw attention to
CORRUPTION?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,832 posts)a right-wing meme that the Tumpy squad is concocting. We should be aware of it, yes. So we can be prepared to call it for what it is: another propaganda smear to weaken our candidates, in this case Joe Biden.
Mr. Lutsenko denied any political motivation in reopening the case.
You believe that I've got a bridge to sell.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
C_U_L8R
(45,003 posts)What a bunch of chowderheads over at the Trump campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden