People forget how hard basic money management is when you're poor. (Advice thread?)

[F4lconF16]

When you get paid for weird hours by multiple sources and jobs at different times in the month on different pay schedules, it can quickly become overwhelming. Add that to the mix of high stress, low free-time, working environments we live and work in and to the lack of any proper education in finances by our school system, and budgeting becomes a topic that is usually poorly used, if isn't simply ignored.

It doesn't help that most traditional budgeting methods have feedback loops that prey on the budgeter. It is much easier to budget regularly when you have money. When you don't, every little mistake is another reason to abandon the budget entirely. When you have a medical issue, when your car breaks, when an insurance payment comes up and you don't have the money, it makes you feel like a failure. You didn't plan right, you didn't think ahead, you didn't see the emergency coming, you fucked up. It's your fault, and now your whole budget is thrown off.

Classical budgeting demoralizes and delegitimizes the efforts of the poor to survive. When what precious little you have is constantly slipping through your fingers, it really makes you wonder what the point is of tracking your money. There's no point to it. You never have enough, ever. What does it matter if you know where that $5 went? You're going to be in the hole $700 anyways because of a flat tire that destroyed a brake disc on your car.

Anyways, I bring this up because I'm doing my budgeting for the month and I was curious how other people do it. I'm lucky that my parents love spreadsheets, so I know how useful they are. I'm now using a much better platform than excel (which I will discuss in a comment), and have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing. I wanted to post this in case there were people out there who wanted help or who might want to suggest things.

[F4lconF16]

1. Going to put this in a reply because I don't want to be accused of advertising.

I use a budgeting program called You Need A Budget. It's an excellent program based off the traditional paper-envelope method. It integrates smart-phone access through an app and uses Dropbox to sync. Normally I wouldn't recommend products online, but I will do so happily for this company, as they have been incredibly responsive and helpful in addition to having a very useful product.

It avoids the pitfalls of classical budgeting in a few different ways.

First, it only uses your current money. It doesn't make you predict where or when your income will come. It has you assign the money to different user-created virtual envelopes. As you spend money, you withdraw it out of those envelopes.

This has a few benefits. It provides a significantly more accurate picture of your total assets and your total debts. Second, it helps the user prioritize expenses. It's much easier to not spend money on eating out when you can look at the budget and see that if you spend money, you won't be able to afford rent. Traditional budgets do this to a degree, but are significantly less effective and prone to error. When your expected income doesn't materialize, you find yourself unable to afford things despite having properly budgeted and spent for the month.

The second big thing for me about this program is that it's extremely easy to shuffle the budget. Traditional budgets simply aren't flexible enough to accommodate rapid changes. This program is designed to encourage switching the budget around. It takes a bit to get used to, but it very effectively diminishes or eliminates the shame encouraged by traditional budgeting.

There's a lot else, too: they run regular classes on budgets and have a whole budgeting method built around the program. Their user forums are extremely helpful and their support almost always responds within hours. It is expensive, a one time fee of $60, but it can be used for as many computers, phones, and people as you want. There's a 30 day free trial, and as I discovered when I bought it, they will give you codes to keep that trial from expiring until you can afford it.

Like I said, I rarely recommend things online, but I will do so for this company. The program is extremely flexible and useful for all sorts of budgeting methods. What I do in this program I used to do almost exactly in a excel spreadsheet, but this places it in a much nicer format, with impressive analysis options and reconciliation ability.

[w0nderer]

5. i'd never accuse you of advertising..unless you did :-)

that was a good review and motivation of why to use it
https://www.youneedabudget.com/ <<--that one right?

i've got my spreadsheets set up to be nice and flexible and don't feel like purchasing soft

but for others nice recommendation
looks flexible

hope this thread takes off the way it deserves (nice one!)

[LiberalArkie]

2. When I was working, I always made sure my car was sound and had good tires.

Even if I had to skip meals and stuff. Living in the south, if your car doesn't run, you can't get to work to make any money. I never lived close to anyone who was working close to me. If you have public transportation, priorities would be different.

At one point in my life I lived in my car, went to a gym in the morning ($10 a month) and showered, shaved and changed clothes and went to work.

[F4lconF16]

3. Public transportation is a very hard option.

Even in places like Seattle, I can't use it on a regular basis. It's far too expensive, and very rarely on time.

I keep my bike fixed and running for that exact reason, even if it cuts into other thing.

[w0nderer]

6. same here

south fla

Even with trains and busses you still need a bike for the 'end of the commute' and busses only have 2-3 bike places

it's easier to just assume you'll ride the whole haul and keep the bicycle in trim

F4lconF16 did you need any help in the bike still after our early discussion?
or are the links i posted enough to cover ya for diy purposes?

dunno seattle prices but if you wanna price check LBS prices i can give you south fla 'reasonable' so you don't get ripped off

to keep the ride riding, sometimes potato and leek soup thickened by oats for a week is a thing that happens

[F4lconF16]

8. No, but I did save your suggestions :)

I fixed what I could, and took it in for the rest. They were kind enough to get the $17 part, replace it, check over my handiwork (which needed some adjustments), and realign my headset and fork for under $30. That's including $10 I already owed.

My local bike shop is awesome. I've had them build a wheel for me, and I'll buy another when I have the funds. They do basic fixes for free most of the time, and they're great about letting you drop in and get a quick repair. I've had under three hours for some big repairs before and they were able to squeeze me in on a busy day. Their labor charges are reasonable for their high-quality work. They're happy to answer questions from a wannabe mechanic peeking over their shoulders the entire time.

I may need to start making that soup. Got a recipe?

[w0nderer]

11. :-)

potatoes (i prefer both mealy and firm) cubed (i grow my own)
leek (chopped) (i grow my own)
oats../oatmeal (this is an aquired taste) so try adding a little to start with

the first two
just add to water, even better with black pepper, salt and some veggie broth/buillion cubes and chicken same



c'mon man spread the word of the LBS!
name and url bro!

they deserve it
i'd give the one i used to work at but i know the mechanics there now..they couldn't mech they're way out of a wet paper bag


do remember..sooner or later that mechanic (makes about what you do) ...drop him a gift card or something

most of us mechs like seeing people take care of their bikes/babies

[F4lconF16]

14. Mmm looking forward to trying this...

Haven't had it with oatmeal before.

That's a great idea for the mechanic--I'll definitely do that.

Counterbalance Bicycles:
http://www.counterbalancebicycles.com/

Awesome shop, awesome people.

[w0nderer]

4. Spreadsheets

libre office / android open office compatible (both free, and libre is available for mac linux windows)
that way i can edit on the go (as i spend or cash a check)
and at home

for me the spreadsheets primarily allows me to toy with numbers, if i can do 2 hours for land lord and save $50, can i put it toward...?
and so on
(yes, like your parents i love them..ever since commodore 64 and amiga days and yes i can make them sit up and beg)

also finding small leaks..well many small streams makes for a big river (well worth finding)

[historylovr]

7. Good post and topic.

I agree with you about the traditional budgeting methods. I've read about the envelope method, which some people seem to have success with, and the software for that sounds interesting. I have Quicken, which has budgeting tools I'm trying to figure out, and when I see that total spending page I cringe. How did I spend that much already? Before trying this I did my budget on paper and used ball park figures for the flexible things like gas and groceries. I may go back to that.

[F4lconF16]

9. I liked the ballpark method the best before I built my own spreadsheet.

Idk if you read my reply about the virtual envelope method above, it's doable in a spreadsheet too.

I liked the paper budget and ball parking because it was so flexible. The big issue I have with it is that it's harder to keep track of spending, as well as for me I tended to spend more short-term.

Paper envelope has always been my favorite, though. It makes you think about the opportunity cost of buying that one thing you want.

[historylovr]

10. I saw that.

It looks like another good method. Also agree about the ballpark method. That is its biggest drawback, not being able to track as well.

[w0nderer]

12. Hi and welcome :-) N/T

[historylovr]

13. Hi, and thanks. :)