A little Clinton history for our younger members who did not have to live through it all.

[LiberalArkie]

The Clintons Weren't so Bad...."Hillary for President?"


When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over a health care reform.

Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn't even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress.

Then President Clinton gave Hillary authority over selecting a female attorney general.

Her first two selections were Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood - both were forced to withdraw their names from consideration.

Next she chose Janet Reno - husband Bill described her selection as "my worst mistake."

Some may not remember that Reno made the decision to gas David Koresh and the Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas resulting in dozens of deaths of women and children.

Husband Bill allowed Hillary to make recommendations for the head of the Civil Rights Commission. Lani Guanier was her selection. When a little probing led to the discovered of Ms. Guanier's radical views, her name had to be withdrawn from consideration.

Apparently a slow learner, husband Bill allowed Hillary to make some more recommendations.

She chose former law partners Web Hubbel for the Justice Department, Vince Foster for the White House staff, and William Kennedy for the Treasury Department.

Her selections went well: Hubbel went to prison, Foster (presumably) committed suicide, and Kennedy was forced to resign.

Many younger votes will have no knowledge of "Travelgate." Hillary wanted to award unfettered travel contracts to Clinton friend Harry Thompson - and the White House Travel Office refused to comply.

She managed to have them reported to the FBI and fired.

This ruined their reputations, cost them their jobs, and caused a thirty-six month investigation.

Only one employee, Billy Dale was charged with a crime, and that of the enormous crime of mixing personal and White House funds.

A jury acquitted him of any crime in less than two hours.

Still not convinced of her ineptness, Hillary was allowed to recommend a close Clinton friend, Craig Livingstone, for the position of Director of White House security.

When Livingstone was investigated for the improper access of about 900 FBI files of Clinton enemies (Filegate) and the widespread use of drugs by White House staff, suddenly Hillary and the president denied even knowing Livingstone, and of course, denied knowledge of drug use in the White House.

Following this debacle, the FBI closed its White House Liaison Office after more than thirty years of service to seven presidents.

Next, when women started coming forward with allegations of sexual harassment and rape by Bill Clinton, Hillary was put in charge of the "bimbo eruption" and scandal defense.

Some of her more notable decisions in the debacle were:

She urged her husband not to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit.

After the Starr investigation they settled with Ms. Jones.

She refused to release the Whitewater documents, which led to the appointment of Ken Starr as Special Prosecutor.

After $80 million dollars of taxpayer money was spent, Starr's investigation led to Monica Lewinsky, which led to Bill lying about and later admitting his affairs.

Hillary's devious game plan resulted in Bill losing his license to practice law for 'lying under oath' to a grand jury and then his subsequent impeachment by the House of Representatives.

Hillary avoided indictment for perjury and obstruction of justice during the Starr investigation by repeating, "I do not recall," "I have no recollection," and "I don't know" a total of 56 times while under oath.

After leaving the White House, Hillary was forced to return an estimated $200,000 in White House furniture, china, and artwork that she had stolen.

What a swell party - ready for another four or eight year of this type low-life mess?

Now we are exposed to the destruction of possibly incriminating emails while Hillary was Secretary of State and the "pay to play" schemes of the Clinton Foundation - we have no idea what shoe will fall next.

[underpants]

1. Reads like a vast Rightwing conspiracy primer

I don't wade in here much but when I read nonsense like that I'm throwing in my 2 cents.

ON EDIT - I thought this was GD

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Can you debunk it?

The White House story on items taken is documented


ABC news

Former President Clinton and his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, have sent $28,000 worth of household goods back to Washington after questions arose over whether the items were intended as personal gifts or donations to the White House.

“We have been informed that it is being shipped back, and the National Park Service is ready to receive it, take possession of it and take custody of it,” Jim McDaniel, the National Park Service’s liaison to the White House, said Wednesday.

“The property is being returned to government custody until such time that the issues can be resolved. It may well turn out that that property is rightly the personal property of the Clintons.”

Giving Back

After they were criticized for taking $190,000 worth of china, flatware, rugs, televisions, sofas and other gifts with them when they left, the Clintons announced last week that they would pay for $86,000 worth of gifts, or nearly half the amount.

Their latest decision to send back $28,000 in gifts brings to $114,000 the value of items the Clintons have either decided to pay for or return.

more stuff
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121856&page=1

[A Simple Game]

28. At least if Hillary wins the Presidency she will know where

to place all of "her" belongings when she moves back into the White House.

[SheilaT]

19. I'm guessing you don't remember the Clinton years.

I'd forgotten a lot of that stuff, and as someone else has said, they happened over a period of time, and so the malfeasance wasn't quite as obvious.

But yes, they all did happen.

[brush]

33. Most of this is bullsh_t.

The repugs were obstructionists towards the Clintons too back then. They perfected the crap that they've pulled on Obama. They put roadblocks in front of all those appointments mentioned.

You can go on and on about the alleged scandals, even Monica, (funny there is hardly any mention of "White Water" which was investigated for forever and nothing was found), but the biggest thing about that time was EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOMMA, BROTHER AND CRAZY UNCLE WAS WORKING.

The economy was effing booming and that really, when you get down to it, is what we want the president to make happen.

And btw, you can do a records searches on all the present day candidates, even Sanders, and you're going to turn up some not so positive stuff so blaming Hillary for all of what happened during Bill's administration is not worthy of DU. Try one of the right wing sites with this stuff.

[sabrina 1]

42. Are you saying there was no Monica Lewinsky? No affairs with multiple women, which we were put in a

position of trying to defend? Sure, the Repubs were hypocritical beyond belief and in the end, they were so nasty and despicable, not to mention Larry Flint's exposure of several of their OWN sexual exploits just about everyone had had enough of all of them, and Clinton lucked out that his enemies were by far much worse than someone who clearly was a cheating spouse.

Frankly though, I don't and didn't care about their personal business. But his choice to hand so much ammunition to his enemies caused his friends and wife to be in a position they never wanted to be in.

Meanwhile, what bothers me more, and is even a worse 'scandal' is the legislation he was getting passed while we were all distracted by the garbage he made possible by his irresponsible actions.

And to make things worse, after fighting in his defense against Bush Bots for years afterwards, he and Hillary turned out to be BFF with the Bush Dynasty.

Last time I will defend a politician who clearly does something wrong.

[brush]

46. I'm a Sanders supporter and believe in being fair

Hillary is not Bill. I don't feel that she should have to pay for thinks that happened in his admin.

If she wins the nomination I will vote for her to insure a repug won't make the upcoming SCOTUS appointments.

IMO that is a huge priority as stopping a 6-3 or maybe even a 7-2 repug majority that will put all civil/women's/LGBT/healthcare accomplishments in reverse is way more important than any grudge from what happened three administrations ago.

[sabrina 1]

50. So stating facts about POLICIES, you didn't address that part of my comment, and about

irresponsible actions of politicians, is in your opinion, 'holding a grudge'? Seriously?

I believe I made it clear that I could not care less about the personal lives of politicians.

My main concerns regarding Hillary are her policies. I do not support Republlican policies.

We should not be presented with candidates whose policies are not representative of the ideals of Democrats.

The current Party leadership has presented us with someone whose positions on major issues throughout her career are far from being in line with those of Democratic voters. Her position on issues like Marriage Equality, Welfare, War, Health Care, Wall St regulation etc etc are more than worrying.

What makes you think she will appoint SC justices who will fight against the conservatives on the SC on some very major issues?

What, in her record, can assure us that once elected she will not revert to the policies 'abortion should be rare' eg, that she has always supported?

It doesn't matter what people on this forum do. The fact is that voters have shown, see the last two midterms, that they will no longer vote for politicians who do not represent them.

Congress is where the real power is and that is where people are now focusing their energies. There are some great Progressives stepping forward now who will get the support of Bernie's increasing army of voters.

The old 'but the SC' fear mongering just isn't resonating anymore.

Bernie is going to win this, and I trust HIS judgement re SC choices far more than I trust someone who was touting the 'Sanctity of Marriage' until the SC finally did the right thing.

[Duckfan]

43. Instead of saying bulls*** just say "Bing"

And it will conveniently direct you to the information. Google works too. But I'm a Bing guy.

History doesn't lie.

[brush]

47. I'm a Sanders supporter

If Clinton wins the nomination though I will vote for her to insure a repug won't make the upcoming SCOTUS appointments.

IMO that is a huge priority as stopping a 6-3 or maybe even a 7-2 repug majority that will put all civil/women's/LGBT/healthcare accomplishments in reverse is way more important than any grudge from what happened three administrations ago.

[Kelvin Mace]

51. The SCOTUS ship sailed long ago,

when the Dems refused to filibuster Thomas and gave him Thurgood Marshall's seat. That led to the debacle in 2000 and Bush being appointed. Two more refusals to filibuster bad nominees got us Alito and Roberts, cementing conservative control over the Court.

There is no way in Hell anyone to the left of Scalia is getting on the Court, no matter who is elected absent an 85% Dem majority (the extra 19% needed to make up for the Vichy Dems who would sell us out).

Sanders is our last hope of an anti-war, anti-Wall Street White House.

[brush]

53. What are you going on about? Kagan and Sotomayor are way to the left of Scalia.

[Kelvin Mace]

54. Passed by a different senate that had

Not become as insane as the House. I was referring to future appointments. With few exceptions, the current court has ruled in such a manner that, at best, will take decades to recover from, and at worst is a mortal blow to the country.

[brush]

55. And you assume that after the 2016 election the Senate will remain the same?

[Kelvin Mace]

56. Even if we make gains in the senate,

the GOP will obstruct. They have no qualms about filibustering and the Dems have no spine to change the rules.

[brush]

57. Well how did Sotomayor and Kagen get installed then?

[Kelvin Mace]

58. One more time:

Both were nominated and confirmed when Dems controlled the Senate and the GOP had not become the monolith of obsterous obstructiveness it is today. Even if the Dems regain the Senate, the GOP will not allow any nominee who fails to share their insane ideology.

[brush]

60. So you're saying that present Senate repugs and the ones in place when Kagen and Sotomayour . . .

were confirmed are not the same crazy?

I doubt that.

[Kelvin Mace]

61. Ummm, again

The GOP composition of the senate has altered drastically in the last 5-6 years. The Senate from that period also passed the ACA.

That would not happen today. If you don't understand that reality, I can't help you.

[brush]

63. You can believe what you want, and also believe, I guess, that the Senate won't change in 2016.

I have a different opinion. Check back with me in November.

[Kelvin Mace]

64. The Senate may change,

but reality won't. Even with Dem control, the GOP will filibuster, and unless the Dems get a supermajority (about as likely as Matt Drudge winning a Pulitzer), no nominee will pass. Yes, the Dems could change the rules, but they haven't show that kind of backbone for perilous power plays in decades.

[840high]

34. I don't care what it

reads like. I'm old enough to remember it all and it's the truth.

[EdwardBernays]

2. Funny

So many of those things I'd totally forgotten about.

Clinton is a hugely charismatic man and a wildly talented public speaker. But he definitely got himself suckered more than once by his opponents.

A great - and awful - example is how in his first meeting with Alan Greenspan - an acolyte of Ayn Rand - he was snookered into thinking that spending money to stimulate the economy was total nonsense; what America needed was austerity.

Typical Randian nonsense... of course he remained friends with Greenspan for years. Which should say a lot about his understanding of the economy.

[Proserpina]

4. Make it stop! Please, make it stop!

Nominate Bernie for our candidate.!

[CoffeeCat]

5. I voted for Bill Clinton twice, met him in person

had a short discussion and I even received a person letter from him about a column that I wrote. I worshipped the man.

I am still in awe of his charisma, his intelligence, his upbringing and how he overcame great obstacles. He is truly one of the greatest politicians this country has ever had. I didn't agree with him on everything, but he made many incredibly smart economic choices that allowed the country to prosper while being fiscally responsible.

However, the Lewinsky scandal (and I supported him through most of that until the end) really was a tipping point. There is a reason that Al Gore distances himself from the Clinton Administration when he ran for President. The Clintons were radioactive.

Time has passed and much has been put in the history books. I remember the positive things about Bill Clinton. However, when you try to resurrect the Clinton legacy and put another one in the White House, I feel all of this stuff emerging again.

They've had their time in the White House. They both have many successes in public service. But it's time to move on. Half of the electorate does not remember a Clinton White House. The Clintons are the past.

Bernie is the future. We need bold, paradigm-shifting change. We don't need Bush/Clinton/Bush/Bush/Obama/Obama and back to another Clinton again.

I fear that during this tough primary battle, Clinton runs the risk of tarnishing her entire brand. Instead of appreciating her successes and moving forward elsewhere--she has this idea that it's "her turn" and that she's somehow entitled to the Presidency. I think she is incredibly misguided. She had her chance in 08. Our party rejected her and selected Obama.

These scandals are part of the reason that our party is lukewarm on her; and it's also part of the reason that she can't win a general election.

[Awknid]

30. Very well said, CoffeeCat

I completely agree. I used to really like the Clintons. Even after the "blue dress" thing. But time has shown the problems that came from Clinton's policies such as Nafta, etc., etc.

I also agree that Hilliary should be satisfied with her successes and move on. It almost makes me suspicious as to why she wants to run again. I feel embarrassed for her.

We are past due for a huge change. It feels like this country is reaching the point of no return. We need Bernie NOW!

[truedelphi]

31. I also admired Bill Clinton.

I thought it way kuhl that Hillary and he were "two for the price of one."

However, I did not realize how much he "shorted" the needs and rights of Americans until the internet became so widely available, after he was out of office.

Perhaps the biggest let down of all his let downs was his signing onto the Banking Reform and Modernization Act of 1999, that basically did away with Glass Steagal.

Without Glass Steagal, the economy became a risky one. In fact, it became a crap shoot. It resulted in a tremendous economic collapse.

And almost everyone in the USA knows of someone who was destroyed by our Economic Collapse of 2008-2011. So thank you there, Mr Clinton. (And Hillary herself continues to say we do not need to re-instate Glass Steagal.)

Pres Clinton also was a total ASS in terms of the War on Drugs. He expanded that war; he even signed the paperwork that led to my friend Lynnette Shaw being forced out of her job as director of the Fairfax Calif. Marijuana Alliance of Marin. His name and that of Janet Reno's were the two names on the first lawsuit filed against Lynnette. Her crime: successfully opening the state's first med cannabis distribution center.

But in interview after interview since leaving office, he will, if the reporter is young and seems "progressive," mention how he hopes someday that a President of the USA will re-schedule marijuana so that it is not a Schedule One drug! He says it with conviction, and his statement is almost believable, until you realize that for eight years, he WAS the President of the USA, and could have done this any day he wanted to!

[Grins]

65. Myth

Perhaps the biggest let down of all his let downs was his signing onto the Banking Reform and Modernization Act of 1999, that basically did away with Glass Steagal.

Myth.

The Act, written entirely by Republicans Gramm, Leach, and Bliley, sailed through the Senate by whopping 90–8 margin. All Clinton's veto would have done was delay the inevitable. He would have had to get 31-Senators to change their minds, and that wasn't going to happen.

[JackBeck]

39. Great post, CoffeeCat. Beyond better than the nonsense posted around here lately.

I've also met both of the Clintons, in both professional and more intimate environments. I have nothing more to add to what you've already shared.

Thom introduced me to Bernie on his show such a long time ago I can't even remember by this point when the first time was that I reserved my lunch break on Fridays (sometimes Thursdays) to listen to Brunch with Bernie. Senator Sanders, for me, has always represented the heart and soul of what any Democrat should aspire to be.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

6. And this is just the early years. It only goes to the end of Bill's White House term.

[LiberalArkie]

8. I am sure if someone had the info for his Attorney General and Governor days, it would

be a lot longer.

I liked the man and for a long time figured that it was really the Arkansas Republicans that set up all the failures. But looking at what the Republicans have done in Arkansas now that they control everything, they are just to damn stupid to have pulled some of the stunts to have caused Clintons gaffs.

I had forgotten a lot of the stuff of the presidency because it happened in such slow motion. When it is all just itemized, it really becomes apparent that they really did it all to themselves.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

9. I was thinking of Hillary after their White House stay, too.

[DebbieCDC]

7. God, I just relived all those terrible years through this post

Never again.

Who said it? Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Yeah that.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. Santayana.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana

[LiberalArkie]

11. Very good, Thank you.

[Cassiopeia]

23. Exactly.

[Duckfan]

44. Relive those years?

Geezh, I'm trying to forget I shook Bills hand when he was campaigning in Oregon. Was at the very front of the rope line as he walked by.

The disaster he created with Shafta and deregulating radio and television still makes me angry.

[hedgehog]

12. True, but you have to give Bill credit for repealing Glass-Steaga and NAFTA.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

26. damn you ...

my desk and keyboard are fucked

no more drinking and DUing

[pansypoo53219]

13. the reno-koresh episode was the fault of BAD advise from her phycho 'expert' park dietz.

i know park dietz from his horrid 'expert' testimony during the jeffrrey dahmer trial. i do not CARE if his CV is long, i found his opinions to be quite ridiculous. hope they took his creds away after the koresh conflation.

[AzDar]

14. Those Who Do Not Remember The Past...

[Scuba]

15. I didn't know some of this, had forgotten most of the rest. Yikes. No more Clintons.

This is what we'll face ad nauseum for months if Hillary wins our nomination, followed by a shellacking in November.

[LiberalArkie]

16. If anyone has anything like this about Bernie, I wish they would post it in this thread. These will

be things that we will be facing, and I personally like having it out in the open rather than being blindsided by it.

[winter is coming]

37. The worst thing I know about Bernie is that album of folk songs he recorded.

He should stick to politics.

[nc4bo]

17. I've got a real swell idea..... let's do it again!!11!

Not if my one vote can help it, we will not.

Just say NO.

Go Bernie!

[Gmak]

18. You left out the boxes and boxes of Hillary's old law firm's documents that were in the White House

and then disappeared when they were needed for an investigation. She was on the board of Walmart and Monsanto was a client of the law firm, so hhmm, wonder what they contained.
I am old, so lived through all this while in my late 40s and early 50s, and my memories are faint, but I do remember how embarrassing their regime was, esp. when I had to explain to my almost 80 year old mother what a BJ was! Granted, the right-wing cabal did everything they could to discredit the Clintons, but what a bunch of material they had to work with.

[winter is coming]

41. +1. Never a straightforward answer to anything, either. I'm tired of the dodging,

and delaying, the weasel-worded answers, the behavior that says, "I may be guilty but you'll never prove it" that seems to be a fucking way of life for the Clintons. Enough, already. We've got a thoughtful, compassionate candidate who's honest and unafraid and has a great record to back up his rhetoric. It's time to put the nose-holding behind us.

[SheilaT]

20. Thanks for posting this.

What's truly scary is Hillary's direct involvement in all these things.

[paleotn]

21. Ugh....

those are some not very happy memories. Especially travelgate. That was the worst case of political hackery since maybe the Grant admin.

Juxtapose that with the last 8 years and you can't help but admire and respect President Obama, even though I strongly disagree with him on several issues. He's like a breath of fresh air compared to those turbulent 90's.

[maxsolomon]

22. The Branch Davidians burned their own complex down, killing their wives and children in the process.

I watched it live. Janet Reno didn't start that fire. Its on Koresh's head, not hers.

it's like you want Cruz to be president. do you want Cruz to be president?

[renate]

25. yeah, after reading that, I felt like sticking up for Janet Reno

Bill Clinton's thinking she was his biggest mistake doesn't mean she was a mistake.

[winter is coming]

45. +1. n/t

[LiberalArkie]

27. If Koresh had not spread gasoline and flammable material around, then there would not

have been a fire. But he know that the FBI at some point would fire tear gas in and that would cause the fire. Death by police.

[Duval]

24. We needed these reminders. Thanks and K&R!

[LiberalLovinLug]

29. and The Third Way

Bill's strategy worked brilliantly politically at the time. Just did not work for the average American.

It was even perversely entertaining to watch Clinton out-Republcan the Republicans. Have them scrambling. Instead of positioning himself where red ends and blue begins, he jumped a few steps and dived into the middle of the reds. So that he could play the moderate Reps against the Dipshit crazy wingnut field. I mean what Republican could reject the draconian three strikes you're out law?

But like a virus, the GOP has evolved the anger of being played still ringing in their heads, and for Obama it was different much to the new Presidents surprise. He underestimated the GOPs butt-hurt from their last experience dealing with a Democratic President, and how much the were willing to screw with America's economy and security in order to never again let a Democrat President out-Republican them. It was no no and no to everything. But Obama must have been thinking that the strategy of his advisers like Rahm had given him of hanging in there, and folding card hand after card hand would eventually pay off and enough moderate Republicans would come on over. But no, they had had 8 years to stew and plan. They kicked out any rep that was "moderate" and stuffed the House with Tea Baggers. Just to make sure that never again would Democrats be able to use this "third way" approach.

So I'd like to know how Hillary supporters think the Clinton Third Way is going to ever work now again? Bernie is coming at it from a different angle. Instead of cowardly giving up on traditional Democratic principles in order to gain power and pass watered down legislation, which Obama proved doesn't work anyways anymore, he simply decided to tell the truth. To explain why a more progressive approach to solving problems is superior, and healthier, and less risky than any alternative. And guess what? people are listening. Even traditional Republican voters when they hear truth that is stripped away from the crafted machinations of Debbie and the DNC apparatchik and their official did-that-done-that third way candidate.

[2pooped2pop]

32. the problem is not only not knowing what other shoe will drop

But you can be damned sure that at least one shoe will drop AFTER the primaries, effectively handing the republicans the presidency. I think they are counting on that and since they have no shoes to drop on Bernie, this is why we have been fed the Hillary is inevitable meme
They have plenty to use against Hillary and probably a closet full of shoes to drop at will.

[840high]

35. Trump will not hesitate to drop

those shoes.

[SoapBox]

36. Wowza! What a reminder!

And "Travelgate"...forgot about that one.

And it has indeed been something with them for more years than I like to remember.

No...More...Clintons.

[WillyT]

38. More Here:

Link: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/tracking-the-clinton-controversies-from-whitewater-to-benghazi/396182/

BUT... Also...

Link: http://www.thehuntingofthepresident.com/

[Juicy_Bellows]

40. Helluva refresher course.

I too forget and or was ignorant of some of these facts.

I lived through it, your post is for everyone.

[noiretextatique]

48. Lani Guinier and Jocelyn elders were racial scapegoats

And testaments to the Clintons' craven ambition and willingness to throw black folks under the bus to score points. I joined the Green Party because of them.

[Babel_17]

49. Some new David Brock trivia

A tad off topic but it is related, imo.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/07/scathing-ig-report-on-hillary-email-account-puts-david-brock-in-a-bind/

Seemed a bit short of deserving its own thread, but the career of Brock is deserving of being tracked. And he managed to make himself again very relevant to the careers of the Clintons.

[tularetom]

52. I've been here ten years and this is the first thread I ever bookmarked

It should be required reading for anybody who feels even the slightest twinge of nostalgia for those years. And for those who may be undecided about potential Democratic nominees in 2016.


The worst part is, while we were all distracted by all this white trash drama, Bill Clinton was giving the country away to the corporations.

[kath]

59. Another good article on the awful aftereffects of Clinton's policies:

(In addition to the link Willy T posted above):
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/15-ways-bill-clintons-white-house-failed-america-and-world

[Sunlei]

62. The Clintons really did start Americas healthcare reform. Romney stole their work for his state plan

IMO, That's why Romney got rid of all the state computers.

I donate only to Senator Sanders because America needs to hear his words but I support both of our top candidates. I want them to team-up and work together.

I will not carry water for RW-Republican Clinton-hate. Not a drop.