I am boycotting the PPR of MannyGoldstein

[Bubzer]

I'm actively blocking all ads from this site to prevent any revenue generation from my viewership, and will not contribute monetarily in any way until such a time as Manny is offered a reasonable pathway to rejoin the DU Community. Because I am airing an action that may incur consequences to me, I cannot, in good conscience, recommend anyone else do the same.

It is unacceptable, to me, that an admin should improperly use the ToS in such a way as to silence a community member, simply because they disagree.

It has been demonstrated that the administrator in question is applying the ToS in a manner that unfairly favors those who support his chosen candidate.

To be clear, I'm not asking for anything unreasonable; I'm asking that DU stop hemorrhaging it's well spoken, thought provoking members by instituting a non-permanent form of punishment for members who've brought literally years worth of value to DU. I'm asking that DU's policies (ToS) become more progressive, rather than totalitarian.

Please provide a pathway, not only for Manny, but for ALL past members who brought great ideas and enrichment to us all.

We are the Democratic party... we are not the party exclusion, reclusion and elitism. We are the party of progressive ideals, fairness, and inclusion. Please consider reflecting this in the ToS.

Please provide a pathway for the return of MannyGoldstein.

[Kalidurga]

1. Remember Jackpineradical?

JackPineRadicals.org is a tribute to him. I hear it's where the cool kids are hanging out now.

[Bubzer]

3. I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

[Kalidurga]

4. No problem

I look forward to seeing many old and new DUers there.

[Mbrow]

13. there is a bunch over

there right now, come on in the water's fine. , I'm not giving up on DU yet, not that i post a lot. i'll just look and read drop a line once in a while. I use ghostery to block adds and trackers.

[Bubzer]

16. ghostery is good. I use adblock plus. Lots of good ad blockers out there. Many very effective ones.

[EV_Ares]

39. Disconnect works great, especially with Chrome.

[AllyCat]

76. Ghostery works, but not for Apple products.

[sasquuatch55]

89. ABP and Blur.

ABP and Blur.

[SwankyXomb]

124. uBlock Origin

[Jackilope]

17. I joined there with a name change inspired from here.

Lesser of 2 Weevils. Thought the name was funny, even though the possible option is not.

[Mbrow]

18. Yeah I changed mine as well

But My first post was to say who I was here. The Name is more fitting (Idaho Progressive). Nice Master and commander reference !

[Bubzer]

25. I joined up using the same name. I mean, really, how can you improve on "bubzer"?

[Kalidurga]

37. I would not even try to improve Bubzer.

I will see you there often I hope.

[Bubzer]

41. Might take a little time to adjust, but I expect I'll be there.

[dgibby]

115. I just joined.

I'm using the same name as here. So happy to have been included. Lots of good folks over there, and glad to know I'll still be able to hear from Manny. Love his posts.

[Bubzer]

117. Welcome aboard!

[dgibby]

130. Thanks so much! n/t

[TBF]

14. You will love it -

[LovingA2andMI]

21. It's Seems like a place where folks can speak their minds....

It was formerly another site like that -- but rumor has it, it has changed. Thus Jackpine Radicals is the Old Coke Classic instead of Coke Zero -- in an analogy type of way.

Independent Underground News & Talk

[lastlib]

11. It's a good site!

I may be spending less time here, and more over there.

[Kalidurga]

70. Me too

I won't give away how many members are there now, but it is in the hundreds.

[sarge43]

12. It is. Come and join us. n/t

[Bohunk68]

85. I have. Changed my name just to update to my age.

[Dont call me Shirley]

27. Cooler than cool!

[Aldo Leopold]

28. Thanks. On my way over there.

By the way, I'd like to know where Manny went. This place has become too conservative for me. Not saying I won't check in from time to time, but the discourse and tone here have really gone down the tubes.

[BeanMusical]

50. Manny is there.

[jwirr]

48. Definitely the cool kids. Been there - a great site.

[beam me up scottie]

54. Jack's place is a great refuge!

No bigotry, no trash talking about DU, no whining - just a positive place where Bernie supporters can hang without having to watch their backs.

Why if I were a member I might just feel like a refugee who found sanctuary.

I'll keep posting here because I still think of this as my home too, DU got me through the Bush years and I've made a lot of great friends.

from Refugee!

Eta to post a little something from Tom:

[haikugal]

67. +1

[BeanMusical]

69. +2

[AllyCat]

60. JPR! Miss him. Thanks for the info about this site.

[deathrind]

125. Thank you!

Just registered there.

The discussion constraint is getting ridiculous around here.

[Kalidurga]

126. Yep it's all data breeches and pottygate from here on out

[840high]

134. I'll check it out.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

136. I get a page load error.

Hmmmm.

[Kalidurga]

137. I just tested this link it worked for me

http://jackpineradicals.org/

[Fantastic Anarchist]

139. Thank you.

Works for me now. Must have misspelled something.

[TIME TO PANIC]

2. K & R !

[Paper Roses]

5. Well written sir, I hope someone listens.

I am a long time member of DU. Joined in m 2005. I check in at least 3 times a day to see what is happening.
Can't say I am much impressed by the things that are now happening.
If this is an open forum for supporters of the Democratic party, I don't understand why anyone would be singled out because they lean toward a particular candidate.

I missed the original "Manny" post that caused the tombstone but am aware of the many years of Manny's valid, intelligent posts.SO WHAT,..as kids used to say...if some of the posts were controversial. The whole world is.

Freedom of expression is a fundamental right.

[senz]

19. Here's the post that was used to ban him -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251916239

[Bohunk68]

87. Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen the post before this just the brouhaha that followed it.

He's correct.

[navarth]

96. THAT got him tombstoned??????

What the fuck. I expect better from DU. this is horse shit.

[Bubzer]

105. I might be able to understand it were the ToS used in equal fashion among all members. But its not.

There are a number of hillary supporters who run their mouth about refusing to support Bernie should he get elected. Some do it indirectly by saying Bernie isn't a Dem, and that they will never vote for a non-Dem... obviously meaning they wont vote for Bernie if he's the nominee. Others are far more overt in their declaration to never vote for him. Others still couch their intent in cleverly worded obfuscation... but the meaning is still there.

None of these individuals have been banned. Sure, they get numerous hides, and timeouts... but never banned. I hate the double standard in this. One way or another, community members need to be treated the same. If that cannot be done, then I expect there'll be a mass migration away from here. It's already started, in fact.

[navarth]

118. As I said...

..I expect better from DU. It's been a home to me for many many years.

[Bubzer]

119. +1

[nilram]

132. Exactly. Thanks for saying it so well.

[jeff47]

138. This is why I let my star lapse

And I will not be renewing it for some time, if ever.

Some posters are more equal than others. Caught with a sockpuppet to avoid your time-out? Eh, we'll just ban the sock. Make a post that might possibly be interpreted as not supporting the general election nominee? Ban.....sometimes.

[grasswire]

24. Merry Christmas, PR

...thought I would say that in case I don't see you elsewhere here!

I hope your weather is ok and that you will have some family celebrating.

[Paper Roses]

51. Hi, thanks for the greetings. Will be in the 60's here Friday. Record breaking warmth.

I guess I won't need my 'robe' Friday PM.
(Ahem)

Wish you and yours a great Christmas and New Year.

[grasswire]

58. LOL

thanks for the tee hee.

[CountAllVotes]

104. So true Paper Roses, so true

and sad as all hell too.

[arcane1]

6. I would say "me too" but I'm already blocking ads, and let my star expire earlier this week.

[Phlem]

8. Hmmm. That sounds like an excellent Idea!

Will do.

[MelissaB]

7. K&R!

[Phlem]

9. Cancelled my star membership.

Feels good.

[AllyCat]

75. I didn't renew when people started getting posts hidden.

Now I figure it may not be worth it if we are all getting hidden/banned.

[Phlem]

79. I have to reserve my comment on this but,

Yes, I hear and agree with you. All one can do is their best which I do and try and stick to TOS, but I'm not going to give them 1 red cent. Not ever again.

This is a business that one can refuse certain conditions on w/o coming near TOS, and that is how I intend to use it. I know it's difficult but one can ignore the willful ignorance that feeds itself on this site and just use the data.

That's all DU is good for anymore. Data sourcing, be it biased or not.

There are much better political sites out there that support rather than divide like DU. Concerning DU, like all great things....well, you know.

[closeupready]

97. How do you cancel it if you are a member?

I mean, prior to the anniversary date?

[Phlem]

114. I had mine going through PayPal.

In Paypal I just cancelled an automatic payment to DU.

Paypal can be handy sometimes.

[Proserpina]

10. Well

You won't be alone: just cross the river Jordan to the other side!

The new site is difficult to learn, IMO, but since we are all intelligent people, after a period of adjustment, we'll be breaking all limits.


Tsk, tsk! All that money spent on a fine new server, too....

[malokvale77]

20. Yes...

I'm having a bit of a problem navigating there, but the members are awesome. The best of DU IMO.

[Paka]

90. Thanks for that encouragement.

I'm marginally computer literate and trying to get acquainted over there. My adjustment may be a bit prolonged, but I'm working on it.

[Bubzer]

133. You're not the only one.

[MrMickeysMom]

15. If this Board is not a biased one, then something will be announced...

Frankly, I think "the market" will show who ends up staying on DU, based on how biased it CONTINUES to be.

Some animals are more equal than others, based on whether you have any affiliation with HRC or the DNC.

Isn't that something?

[malokvale77]

22. "Some animals are more equal than others"

It's disappointing to see the best minds being ousted from here.

Maybe the admins think a dozen or two elitists can pay the bills.

[MrMickeysMom]

32. They're gonna find out...

... aren't they?

[malokvale77]

36. I posted this in another thread but I think it works well here.

" target="_blank">

And yes it shows my age. LOL.

[MrMickeysMom]

40. Yeah, baby!

Yours and my age, most likely!

And, it definitely fits here!

[malokvale77]

46. Ha ha

I always love to find a kindred spirit.

Thank you MrMickeysMom

PS: Mr. Mickey reminds me of my Mimi. Maybe I should become MsMimisMom. LOL

[MrMickeysMom]

47. That little boy will live on in my screen name forever...

Wherever that screen name goes!

[malokvale77]

49. Appropriate. nt

[senz]

121. I find this lovely, MMM.

Loyalty to good souls, wherever and however we encounter them, is always and forever a very good thing.

[grasswire]

23. And why isn't MaggieD tombstoned for exactly...

.....the same thing only worse??

[Bubzer]

26. Or V.R.

[malokvale77]

42. I've wondered about that one and a few others myself. nt

[fleur-de-lisa]

109. MaggieD, MohRakTa (or however it's spelled) and JaneyVee . . .

I know Morhrakta is on timeout right now, but how is it that he and the other two haven't been tombstoned? Their posts are vile. I guess if you bow down to the anointed one, all is forgiven.

[MrMickeysMom]

43. You got me, grasswire...

I'll be damned if I know.

I've never seen such bias for vitriolic Bernie comments, including age-related, even though he's 6 year older than HRC.

I think the bathrobe is the answer to reaching out to, "the dude abides"... Yeah, that's probably it.

[ljm2002]

55. Or M.R.T. ... n/t

[QC]

74. All animals are equal, but....

I think you know the rest.

[Phlem]

80. Dude. She's a Hillary supporter, duh.

[Dragonfli]

82. FYI

On Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:05 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

And why isn't MaggieD tombstoned for exactly...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=87359

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling for another member to be PPR'd openly like this is out of line. If you think someone is a troll alert admin, don't post calling for their banishment off the website. This is over the top, and disruptive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:15 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not calling for PPR, but asking for clarification for the appearance of unequal application of the rules concerning PPR..
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a valid question - there does appear to be bias in these decisions.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's also in a protected group. Something tells me you went to that group looking for things to alert on.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That is a very good question actually, I can see how some may wish to hide both the question and the hope for a straight answer.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[bananas]

83. Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

I'm Juror #2:

Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:05 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

And why isn't MaggieD tombstoned for exactly...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=87359

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling for another member to be PPR'd openly like this is out of line. If you think someone is a troll alert admin, don't post calling for their banishment off the website. This is over the top, and disruptive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:15 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not calling for PPR, but asking for clarification for the appearance of unequal application of the rules concerning PPR..
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a valid question - there does appear to be bias in these decisions.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's also in a protected group. Something tells me you went to that group looking for things to alert on.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That is a very good question actually, I can see how some may wish to hide both the question and the hope for a straight answer.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[d_legendary1]

131. I've wondered about that too

Every day MD and the ilk post about how they won't vote for Bernie in the general election, yet here they are free to do whatever the heck they want. Manny says it one time and he's gone.

Unless one supports HRC their time here is short-lived. Now more than ever I wanna support Sanders' bid for the White House. It'd be the best F*CK YOU we can give the powers that be.

[840high]

135. It was much worse.

[Chemisse]

29. Is it possible there were other reasons behind the banning?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110730422

Was Manny was doing this kind of thing here at DU? (I honestly don't know, but do find this disturbing).

[JonLeibowitz]

31. That post was deleted for being antithetical to the purpose of Jackpineradicals.

And no, Manny was not doing anything of the kind.

[Bubzer]

33. More likely an operative from the oposition.

[malokvale77]

52. Wow!

That's some real hypocrisy. I tried to point that out, but alas, I'm banned from that group.

It seems that site (jackpineradicals.org) has integrity. More than I can say for others (not to be mentioned).

[BeanMusical]

62. Hypocrisy is an understatement.

And jackpineradicals.org has nothing in common with Bill's Sewer site.

[malokvale77]

64. "And jackpineradicals.org has nothing in common with Bill's Sewer site."

I'm well aware, which is why I have joined.

I will be fully retired in January and hope to use the collective knowledge there to help Bernie's campaign.

[BeanMusical]

65. Sorry if it looks like I was criticizing you or anything like that.

It was more like a message for the members of the Sewer site's members and admin.

[malokvale77]

66. Gotcha...

I just never know who here gets me.

[jwirr]

53. So what if he was? Skinner himself created another site for

Hillary supporters. Nothing wrong with that.

[kath]

81. Skinner did create a site for HRC fans but William's Sewer site is another kettle of fish altogether

With hidden rooms where the vilest stuff is. A real cesspit.

[ljm2002]

56. Bloody hell...

...what kind of a jacked up response is this?

You take one post from another site, that has NOTHING ZERO ZIP ZILCH NADA to do with Manny Goldstein and then oh-so-innocently say "Gee, maybe Manny was doing this sort of thing, waddaya think?"

You "do find this disturbing", eh?

Well I find you disturbing. Geez Louise. Do you have any sense of fairness in discourse, at all? It surely doesn't look like it.

[Autumn]

57. Seriously? You don't know why Manny was banned? Bull

If you by chance read that screen shot you will see that was not Manny, as I'm sure you know. That post was deleted as soon as it was brought to the attention of the moderators at Jackpine and no trash talking of DU or DUers has been added to the rules.

That poster who is outraged over that one post at JP created a site where they openly plotted against DUers and bragged about getting hides on a certain poster here, MIRT members at that and referred to Bernie supporters as "white trailer trash" and there are a hell of a lot of other ugly ass screen shots as well . That's what I find "disturbing". At Jackpine there are no hidden rooms and other than that one post, which was immediately deleted it has never had to be locked up and cleaned up of the hatred and vitriol spewed by the members of his site.

links are all in this thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128075924

[malokvale77]

59. Seriously...

Last edited Fri Dec 25, 2015, 05:49 PM - Edit history (1)

that was one of the biggest cases of hypocrisy I have seen in all my long years. Right there with the other members of that poster's site.

Up is down and down is up.

Thank goodness for jackpineradicals.org and the wonderful minds there.

[shireen]

106. typo

in the url ... add an "s" before the period

[malokvale77]

147. Fixed - thank you. nt

[BeanMusical]

61. "no trash talking of DU or DUers has been added to the rules."

Thank you. Jackpine has nothing in common with Bill's Sewer site.

[beam me up scottie]

68. That's just one reason why it's better than HCS.com - the owners aren't alert stalking DUers.

And neither is anyone else since it's against the rules.

The anti-Semitic threads posted by the owner and members at their site were even worse though, as was the racism against PoC who support Bernie which was not only allowed but encouraged. Add transphobia to the mix and you've got a nasty mix of bigots who really have no right complain about anyone else.

Of course they're pretending to be outraged by one post (which was promptly removed) but after what they did to cali it's just more hypocrisy.

Full of sound and fury and all that.

JackpineRadicals.org is the best thing going for Bernie supporters, it's a refuge from DU where the alert stalking still goes on as is evidenced by the alert on Skittles in this group where the alerter lied about the post in order to get a hide.

With over 200 members already, no wonder they're jealous.

[BeanMusical]

71. +1 So true.

[Autumn]

101. 469 this morning, it really is a refuge from

the nastiness and the pretend outrage.

[Bubzer]

113. And growing!!!

[Autumn]

141. Over 500 hundred this early evening.

[sabrina 1]

63. No, Manny doesn't do that kind of thing. Most likely an infiltrator attempting to undermine the

purpose of the site. Which is why it was deleted. Odd that someone here 'just found it while on the internet' isn't it? Can't imagine just 'stumbling' on a brand new site myself!

[haikugal]

72. Yeah, a real mystery...

[sabrina 1]

73. Seriously! Lol!

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

120. I was thinking the exact same thing myself

And from what I have seen on this site, it's par for the course with supporters of that other candidate.
And I'm not talking about O'Malley.

[beam me up scottie]

78. I find your confusion to be less than authentic.

Your friends in that group were the ones who were caught alert stalking DUers and trying to get them MIRTed from their anti-Semitic website.

Maybe you should be concern trolling their group instead of starting rumours in this one.

[Autumn]

103. Anyone who has ever been a host knows about Mannys OPs and

his posts. The way it has always worked is a jury alert is sent , jury alert usualy fails then the SOP alert fly into the host forum. The longer the discussion the more alerts are sent by his fan club. There was one SOP alert where the alerter referred to Manny as a p**ck. That alert was alerted on and only 2 hosts commented on it. Of course nothing was done. My point is hosts know exactly why Manny was banned. There are hosts that are MIRT members and in an event such as this that is always part of the discussion when the MIRT notice is automatically sent And there was a discussion, it's always been that way. I would bet the farm on that, the outrage over his OP and the jury leaving the post was palatable.

[Paulie]

142. The sewing circle discussions in MIRT are their own

Admins rarely comment and when they did it was to tell The MIRT to shut up and do the job of nuking newbie trolls and stop discussion of over 100 post users.

Has that changed in the last couple years?

[Autumn]

143. No I don't imagine things have changed but some hosts are also MIRT members and I know

Last edited Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)

when I was a host there were times we would be discussing an alerted OP and the member would be banned and a MIRT/ host would let us know that the poster was banned.

[Paulie]

144. Gotcha

Thanks for your time!

[Proserpina]

91. Manny did nothing of the sort

What an insult!

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. What happened to Manny?

.....and why? Did it have something to do with juries?

[Gregorian]

34. I think I caught it.

He posted an original topic with a statement that he would not vote for Clinton. I think that's the general way it was put. My first impression was oh boy this could be suicide. Sure enough, I refreshed, and the post was gone.

[Bubzer]

35. The post still exists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251916239

[Gregorian]

44. Thank you.

I just rec'd it. I had forgotten.

[Bubzer]

45. Glad to be of service!

[closeupready]

99. Still not getting that - bad to write it, okay to leave the appeal open.

Something very ugly, very Salem Witch Trial/Scarlet Letter in that conundrum.

[Depaysement]

108. That's hilarious

One would think that the banning - and allowing the offending post to remain - defeated the alleged purpose: to encourage posters to support the party's nominee in the general election, even if you didn't support that candidate in the primaries. Instead the post and the poster's removal got more traction than if it were left alone.

[silvershadow]

38. We will likely have to run this by Debbie Wasserman Shultz.

BTW, does anyone know if she has an opponent this cycle?

[TSIAS]

77. I don't know

With the redistricting being decided by the courts a lot of districts are up in the air.

[emsimon33]

84. The "well spoken, thought provoking members" are moving to JackPineRadicals.org

Check it out.

[Divernan]

93. Most impressive crew (even Will Pitt) joined in 1st TWO days!

[DonnaM]

86. Bravo and

well said!!

[Enthusiast]

88. Bring back Manny!

[Javaman]

94. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=87268

[Bubzer]

95. +1

Well written. Hope you've joined us over at jackpineradicals.org

[d_legendary1]

129. Too bad we can't rec comments

Yours is an excellent read.

[Feeling the Bern]

98. It looks like a lot of the old guard is gone

Manny, Will Pitt, etc.

The jury system is completely broken and alerts are thrown out on simple disagreement.

I will not donate any money to this site until it changes.

[Autumn]

100. They aren't gone, they are at Jackpine

[Orsino]

102. The path back isn't our business.

It does seem to me that there was a TOS violation, and the administration can be appealed to if the poster desires.

But we are poorer, I think, for the outcome in this case.

[Bubzer]

107. I respect your view, but I disagree. Every community has a stake in how things are run.

I see it as my business as I'm a community member... just as I see it as my responsibility to be informed of civil matters, and to vote for what I see as the best actions for my country and my fellow citizen.

That aside, I cannot count the number of comments and posts I've read from various people wishing that certain long-time members were back. If there's an appellate process, I doubt very much that many know of it. I certainly didn't until you mentioned it. If it does exist, it needs to be far more transparent, with expectations detailed clearly. I've scoured the site to find information on it and haven't found it...which is not to say is isn't there...but is to say, it's probably buried somewhere.

In any case, I agree... this is a loss for DU.

[Orsino]

112. Posters come and go.

If I were convinced that Manny wanted to come back in accordance with the rules, but that he wasn't allowed to appeal, I would definitely call that an injustice.

I could understand pride getting in the way of that process.

[GeeNeeUs]

127. Posters come and go. But Assassin Moles endure.

What's up with that?

[sabrina 1]

146. Looks like Manny has moved on and will be continuing to do what he always did so well

hopefully now with a larger and far more appreciative audience. Thankfully the internet is far bigger than it was way back when we all started, and far better imo. Not posting on one site often frees a person to move to a better place and that appears to the be the case with all great bloggers who started out here, but for one reason or another, left.

[Herman4747]

110. MannyGoldstein is History...

...we don't want to wind up that way.
************************************
On to victory in November 2016!

[Bubzer]

116. MannyGoldstein is still around. He's just moved to jackpineradicals.org

So, getting PPR'ed here isn't as much of an issue as it used to be... particularly given the nearly 500 members there... most of whom were some of the great posters from here.

A pathway still needs to be established here, IMO.

[sabrina 1]

145. You mean Manny is MAKING History! He's on FIRE now and doing great work for Bernie

on the new site.

[littlewolf]

111. jebus I go away for a week or so and everything goes to sh*t.

what the blue fu*k to Manny do. I swear I am going to take a break for a while.
maybe a long while.
oh I use ad block on my Mac … works great.


ok I read upthread. a Long break at least on the politico side ..not that most people will miss me.
I do not write that much … Love cooking and baking and LOL cats …
but I need a rest ….

[TBF]

122. This is the new watering hole -

and it's very good.

http://jackpineradicals.org/forum.php

Just register and lurk awhile if needed. You will be amongst friends.

[cascadiance]

123. Well, I wouldn't feel to guilty of blocking some ads such as TransAmerica pro-Keystone Oil pipeline

which I just got the last day or so, which this site I would think should have some editorial control of whether they appear or not. I used to work for an online ads service company almost two decades ago, and I know that sites had some control in that case of what ads they wanted to exclude from showing on their site with ad targeting rules.

To allow TransAmerica to pay to get an audience here and to at the same time have some like Manny pushed off the site bothers me a bit.

[LiberalLovinLug]

128. K & R

There has to be something we can do to reverse these witch hunts against some of the most senior though provoking members. There must be some other avenue. Manny, I though, was careful in that he did NOT say explicitly that he would not vote for Hillary. He said he would vote for another candidate...even if he did not win the primaries. As far as I am aware of, write-ins are a long held democratic right. This ban seems at best petty in the extreme, and at worst they are doing the bidding of DNCforHillary.org and their trolls that haunt this place.

DU members who value traditional Democratic Party values, whom Bernie represents, must stand together. DU does not have to slide to the right along with the new top-down Republican-lite Turd-ways. It is Hillary and the DNC that have moved away from the Democratic Party. And Bernie, despite being ridiculed for not being an official Democrat for years, that represents true Democratic values. Who is the real Democrat? Admins at DU should honestly ask themselves that. There is no reason why DU must also shift right and compromise with the bought out Democratic leadership by silencing any voice that they deem would make the Turd Way Leadership uncomfortable.

[davidthegnome]

140. Wow.

The DNC... has at this point devolved into an offensive joke. It certainly doesn't represent me.

I'm glad someone stepped up to post what a lot of us have been thinking. Manny has always been good at doing that. I have also seen comments and OPs far more in violation of the TOS that passed through with flying colors. Accusations, insults, all kinds of things directed at both Clinton and Sanders supporters from each other - and vows to vote for the preferred candidate in the general (regardless of the primary) are not that uncommon.

Securing the nomination... should not require that we vote for the nominee. We are a mix of democrats, progressives, liberals, libertarians, anarchists, socialists, communists, and who knows how many others. DU has always been something of a melting pot for ideas, philosophies - and grass roots movements such as that which Sanders leads. There are active members here who certainly aren't going to vote for Sanders whether he wins the nomination or not - the same applies to Clinton. Manny simply pointed out this truth and passionately affirmed his own loyalty to Sanders.

You know, I've seen a lot of stuff in my years here observing DU, I've had arguments with people that I very intensely disagreed with, I've said things I probably shouldn't have. Through it all though, I've maintained the sense that the majority of us are on the same side, that a basic common purpose and goal is shared. Common values (empathy, compassion, tolerance, understanding...) and the support of the common good, I always felt were common things here.

Okay, enough beating around the bush. My point is - the TOS should not be something written in stone. We are not cookie cutters, we are passionate people who believe strongly enough in our cause/s to come to this forum and talk about it. Manny was a highly valuable member of this forum, who brought grins to many faces - and who many of us - including me, saw as a hero. This may be a private forum, but the manner in which the TOS was applied here was unfair and over the top. Admin and moderators may do as they see fit, but these kinds of actions are likely to cost viewership and funding. I've never, not once, felt that DU had much in common with the free republic. Until now.

I think our tent is getting smaller, which is pretty sad, considering how many of us are going to be living in tents if we allow politics as usual to remain in play without challenge.

I enthusiastically support Bubzer's request to permit (and, if we are to be fair, to encourage) the return of MannyGoldstein - and further request that there should be a careful consideration of this particular case by a team of moderators and admin.

[merrily]

148. I agree with Manny of the ideas in your OP.