Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumCertain DU Hillary supporters seem to be getting talking point memos.
Just saying.
Today it was about Bernie not talking about ISIS.
Bernie has talked a lot about ISIS. They just don't listen.
But I notice uniformity in their posts. It's uncanny.
Let's watch and see if we can follow what is going on in that respect. Is there something organized? I could be wrong. Maybe I am just imagining it.
But I think we should watch for the structure of their arguments. It seems odd to me. There seems to be some sort of communication about what should be said on a certain day. Or am I wrong?
merrily
(45,251 posts)nothing blatantly transparent like that at all.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Nothing coordinated on other sites, just a really amazing coincidence that so many posts spew...er...mention the same thing over and over.
Wonder what it will be tomorrow.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Conspiracy theories are silly. It's not like they have their own cave to huddle in or that DU's owners support Clinton.
Oh, wait...
TM99
(8,352 posts)for calling out an obvious campaign operative. Their resume was online and listed them working on the Obama campaign as well.
Of course their are operatives here. Of course they post 'talking points' here and at the cave for dissemination.
An account from years ago suddenly becomes active and a Clinton supporter this summer, and we are supposed to believe it is a coincidence?
No, this shit is propaganda. It is Rovian. It is scripted and controlled. It is another method in the must win at all costs play book.
It is scary, and it shows the lengths so will go for the 'anointed one'.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Pretty interesting. It is like they are 1099ers and are all on the computer all day long.
I should know, during the summer I was taking online classes and doing back office stuff. The pull of the site proved to be just an open tab away at all times. There is the same computer movements as someone who can easily be on the computer all day long.
Or they are just retired.
Or....
bvf
(6,604 posts)being played ad nauseam.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Just to see what I am missing by having over 40 people on ignore. Not too much difference in the OP counts...I find that rather interesting.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)ignore has seriously lowered my blood pressure....but I do get curious.
artislife
(9,497 posts)maybe 3 threads I don't see, on average. The OP makers are smart enough to not have put the fly swatter in their sig lines. I know I am not the only person who just put on ignore every single one who had it. They want their OPs to be seen by all the Bernie supporters. I have wished some of them would have so I could easily click and ignore but they either have to be very angry or very boring for me to do it.
I love the reactivated ones. It reminds me of the grandma in I sing the Body Electric.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Who would pay for that level of quality.
They think they're producing subtle pieces of art...
But this is what everyone else is seeing:
Proserpina
(2,352 posts)to the ultimate detriment of the website and the Democratic Underground brand...and yet, this campaign must have the backing of the Admins. because it continues despite the outcry by the ever-dwindling number of those still left "in good standing".
My own mother, put on review TWELVE days ago, for bogus reasons, is still in limbo.
That's Demeter, as in the goddess whose joy at the return of her kidnapped daughter causes Spring to bloom...and why she should have to wait for Spring for a review of this injustice is beyond me. Terms of Service work both ways, you know.
kath
(10,565 posts)HOURS, or at most a day or so.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)I've been ill the last week or so and not logging on.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I just checked and yes she is.
Wtf...
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Demeter is being reviewed? She can't post?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)In the meantime, posters who had 3 hidden posts in matter of hours, and who sent vile PMs to others here in DU, are being reinstated.
Go figure.
senz
(11,945 posts)Demeter is one of the best, and I've never seen anything abusive or over-the-top in her posts. This doesn't make any sense, unless she was judged as too effective or something like that.
I'm so sorry. Please tell her we miss her. If there's anything we can do, please let us know.
Proserpina
(2,352 posts)I'll tell her you said so...she could use a laugh.
The best thing to do is talk about it, spread it around the site, unless you know how to get the Admins. to do anything...
senz
(11,945 posts)Trying to silence our strongest voices. I wonder what goes into a "review?"
Yes, we should bring up what happened to Demeter in comments elsewhere on the site.
Hang in there, Proserpina.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)yesterday is work with the M$M to push a "Dean Scream" type of narrative onto Bernie.
Anyone with half a brain could watch the video of Bernie chiding the media for not staying on topic regarding poverty at the presser yesterday and see that he did not appear "agitated" or "testy" or whatever other abrasive adjective the media tried to foist on him. They simply lied about how he reacted. Bernie is gruff - it's his style and his delivery - and he's that way on all serious subject matter. I've seen him far more edgy in other venues. His poking back at the media for interrupting a press conference on inner-city poverty with idiotic questions about ISIS was fairly gentle (those pastors and community members didn't come there to hear about ISIS. That subject isn't very high on their list of priorities).
But, oh how the media and the Hillarians wanted to make it about "mean ole Bernie doesn't know foreign policy."
Didn't work.
The comments, Tweets, etc. were about 10 to 1 AGAINST the media for straying off-topic. The media, it was noted by many, talks about ISIS nearly 24/7. Why would it hurt them to give just a few focused minutes on issues like poverty which effect far more Americans than terrorist attacks? Why doesn't the media consider inner-city issues "real world" events? Even the pastors and community leaders in attendance spontaneously applauded when Bernie pointed that out.
By the time Bernie got to The Tonight Show, that narrative was gone. He'd given a great interview with Rachel Maddow, where she actually let him talk about the problems he saw on his trip the Baltimore neighborhood and he relaxed with Jimmy Fallon by playing The Whisper Game (FEEL THE BERN!).
Bernie said he and Keith Ellison are tentatively planning a joint conference to discuss Islam and discrimination. If the media wants to talk about "what to do with extremists," that would be the time to ask that question because, I bet you money that no media person will interrupt a press conference about ISIS with a question about inner city poverty.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)Truer words were never spoken.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)"no media person will interrupt a press conference about ISIS with a question about inner city poverty."
Truer words were never spoken.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...is that they are forever making mountains out of dust specks.
Bernie does very little wrong. He's human. So, of course he's going to be imperfect.
And when he is imperfect, they take the slightest, most inconsequential detail and treat it as if Bernie just murdered twenty people.
It just shows how desperate they are to spin *something*, *anything* Bernie does into a negative.
It's so silly. No one else is buying this snake oil. They might be impressed with themselves for repeatedly getting that "Bernie is an old grump" narrative out. The problem is--no one cares. No one thinks that Bernie is sexist, or racist or that he won't talk about ISIS, or that he's an old grump.
Basically, these people are like rats, sitting around feeding on their own feces. No one wants the crap that they're putting out there, but boy, they sure do enjoy it themselves. It's...kinda weird.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)They have to eat their own crap coz it's all they have.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...but they think they're spinning gold.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)the bogeyman we're all supposed to fear so that we can give the next President something closer to absolute power. I'm impressed that Obama is rejecting the attempt. I suspect Hill & the Republicans are on board with it.
artislife
(9,497 posts)that the people who believe ISIS is the new communism will vote for one of the Repubs. H doesn't win this argument anywhere.
I can't wait for her crash.
Response to JDPriestly (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
I think the admins care - look how many Bernie supporters have been banned. Hillary's supporters, not so much.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)HillaryMojo.com. Was quite a slick site for the time it was up.
It's down now.
Since it's down now, my wild-ass guess is they expected they'd be able to use DU to generate "rough drafts" for HillaryMojo. Some people write a pretty good story on DU, contact them and have them polish it a bit for HillaryMojo. When DU didn't go that way, they lost their content source.
But again, that's a wild-ass guess. I have no evidence of why it has been abandoned.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)It might be a bit embarrassing to create that other site and it gets attention from the Clinton campaign, and the campaign observes that DU is mostly Sanders supporters, whose donations provided the seed money to the "mojo" site.
DU's owners might want to be associated with the Clinton campaign, but the Clinton campaign would have no reason to want to be associated with DU.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Samantha
(9,314 posts)I have noticed this as well. I don't think it is a coincidence (probably because I am just so one dimensional).
And that, of course, disqualifies me for ever being Commander & Chief!
Sam
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)retrowire...locked out for 24 and account is now under review.
This post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251887046 (noting that there were 53 replies and I was only showing about 10...the swarm was all over him.) But I could still rec the post!
I got an email from him...so glad that I've exchanged addresses with multiple people, outside of DU.
They can try to stop us here but they cannot and will not suppress our voices in the World.
Go Bernie!
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)I must be missing something or jury was not wanting to hear opposition opinion
Several really over the top op's continue to stand.
You all know what's up so act accordingly!
villager
(26,001 posts)Then any ol' "charges" will stick...
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Hope he's ok!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)can't you still pm when you are on a time out?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Hope he/she comes back soon.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)He's one of my favorites.
Clintonites complain about "bullshit hides" and "alert swarming" and "being silenced" when an occasional one of their toxic hate posts are hidden... this is a total bullshit hide if I ever saw one, I saw nothing in that post that was hide-worthy (and I would say the same thing if it was the same tone criticizing Bernie). Anyone happen to have jury results? I am very curious as to how the alerter and those who voted to hide tried to justify it.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)You can just imagine what the mass email from HRC camp says to them each day by what's posted here. Its fascinating.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...those talking points.
A repeated talking point was crafted during a strategy meeting. Talking points are supposed to achieve a desired result.
Ask yourself...what is the result that they're seeking.
And you can pretty much figure out what their weaknesses are; what they're trying so hard to do. They may be trying to inflict damage in an area where the opposition is gaining ground or where the candidate is having trouble.
For example, look at the "Bernie is sexist" nonsense. Hillary said, "When women talk, some people think we're shouting." She repeated this at campaign stops, Tweeted it out, posted it on Facebook and had several surrogates accuse Bernie of sexism.
Does Hillary really believe that Bernie Sanders is sexist? No. However, the talking point is intended to achieve a desired result--weaken Sanders with women by suggesting that he's sexist. Notice that surrogates do the heavy lifting and the dirty work. The talking point comes from Hillary and the campaign, but they get to keep their hands clean if this blows up in their faces.
Same with so many other talking points. "This race is over" is a big talking point. They seem to be pretty proud of this one, despite the irony that they fail to see (Hillary said the same thing in 2008, repeatedly. Oooops). When you read this stuff, ask yourself, 'What is the desired result?" They want Sanders supporters to give up. They want them to feel that there is no hope. Because when you have no hope--you don't volunteer, you don't canvass and you lose your enthusiasm. You don't get involved with the campaign and you may not even caucus or vote.
Obviously, the enthusiasm, organization and potential to upset Hillary is a "concern" for those repeating that talking point. You don't see them doing this to O'Malley do you? There's no reason. He's at 4 percent. He's not a threat.
Sanders supporters are a big threat to them, so don't let it bother you. Be flattered that you are being discussed in strategy meetings and that they're spending so much time and energy on you.
And do something for Bernie's campaign. Contact your local office. Contact the Iowa offices. They need help writing hand-written letters to possible supporters or even making phone calls. One person can make a difference.
artislife
(9,497 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Thank you, CoffeeCat.
Bernin4U
(812 posts)1. They've had plenty of experience with fake scandals. And it's a whole 'nuther matter when there's the chance to dish it out.
2. They begrudge that their superstar isn't as good at shutting down offensive attacks as our little scrapper.
3. "But we're winning" is getting old, and coming up with anything legit just isn't panning out.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)It's been quite a thing for months now...or maybe years? Lots of hate for whistleblowers when it's a person's personal candidate who can do no wrong.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)And are repeating those talking points. It happens.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Talking points for the authoritarians, every day.
Many of the same DU members, too.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I worked in public relations/media relations for many years.
It's very easy to spot organized messaging. I find it fascinating. I remember planning/discussing strategy and key messages. I often see organized "key messages" online (sometimes for products; sometimes for political candidates). So no...you are not imagining this.
It's sooo very obvious. It's interesting to reverse engineer their talking points. Obviously, those talking points are designed to have an effect; on the opposition's supporters or on people who are undecided.
This is part of the ground game. Like it or not.
However, if you know it's happening and if you are aware that a gaggle of astroturfers are purposely "disseminating talking points" then the impact is neutralized.
I think there are many posts designed specifically to make Sanders supporters give up and feel like he has no chance. I feel lucky that I'm in Iowa, because I can refute most of their baloney with the truth--what I'm seeing happen in Iowa. This race isn't over. Anyone who tells you that is most likely issuing a talking point. They gain immensely if you don't caucus, don't vote, don't volunteer, don't make phone calls, or lose your enthusiasm. It's a tactic designed to decrease participation and voter turnout.
Just don't let it bother you. Haters gonna hate. Spinners gonna spin. These people don't have magical powers. Nor do they have crystal balls. Be amused by them (if you suspect someone is doing this) and focus on working hard to get your candidate elected. Then, your candidate wins--despite the "key messages" that were thrown at you.
senz
(11,945 posts)Certain posters put up OPs that sound like anti-Bernie bumper stickers, and they manage to keep their short, accusatory anti-Bernie messages up for days -- and yes, I've wondered what's going on. The repetition of negative messages is a propaganda technique. It could be an attempt to control the the overall discussion on DU and influence DU readers and lurkers. There's a saying in media studies that goes "The media doesn't tell you what to think, they tell you what to think about." The name for the technique is "the agenda-setting function of the media." So these frequent OP creators could be trying to set the agenda at DU. And, yes, it does have a manufactured, coordinated quality that creeps me out.
I've also seen Bernie supporters get hides for suggesting that a given commenter is a shill. Apparently it's a big no-no to bring it up.
Equally bad for me is that quite a few can't be talked to or reasoned with; there's no sense of talking to fellow human beings. There's no consideration, they just blurt out their basic message in a mechanical way. The absolute wall of hostility in some -- not one opening for humanity -- it amazingly off-putting.
Someone upthread said it seemed like they were trying to create a "Dean scream" scenario to invalidate Bernie. I'm never in the "know" on anything so while reading this, I took the link to retrowire's hidden OP. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the OP except that it intelligently refutes a talking point & some of the comments were equally intelligent. WTF? That he is now "under review" makes me sick. And Demeter, too? What's going on? I just checked both of them, and retrowire is marked as "active," but is he unable to post? Plus, on that hidden thread the final post has a very ugly visual attack on Bernie:
The image location shows the URL of a blog called https://dangerwaffles.files.wordpress.com. It's a righwing hate site with many anti-Bernie and also anti-Obama messages. It's amazing that a DUer would use it. Also amazing that the commenter who uses it made a very anti-rightwing comment. WTF is that all about?
Another thing that troubles me is that some of the propaganda-style commenters occasionally make rightwing libertarian arguments about taxation and capitalism or else they'll use liberal social concerns in an extremely cynical, phony way, stating that Bernie is a misogynist or a racist. These absurd claims appear to be clumsy attempts to turn Democrats against him.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I could go on and on. It also creeps me out that they can read what we're saying and can discuss it at their little "secret" site.
I wish I knew what we can do to deal constructively with this. For me, the most important thing is to do all we can to help Bernie win the nomination. I guess the main usefulness (politically) of DU is to help get pro-Bernie messages on the Internet, since we don't have the media on our side.
Okay, I better end this and get to bed. I fell asleep at a normal hour and woke up with the computer still on and started reading the Bernie group, and one thing followed on another and now it's ridiculously late.
senz
(11,945 posts)Here it is: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251887046
And the weird intensely anti-rightwing comment with the hideously anti-Bernie image from the intensely anti-Democratic blog is the last comment in the thread.
This helps verify my sense that there are some Republican posters here.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The admins need to step in, take responsibility and stop allowing juries to remove posts like Retrowire's that present cogent arguments in a civil style.
What is wrong with the admins?
They should put that excellent post back on DU.
The jury system if not working.
I do not vote to remove posts based on the political viewpoint of the author. I only remove posts that are truly degrading to DU.
The admins need to take action on the abuse of the jury system. That goes for people on both sides of the primary dispute.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)Are these patterns intentional or are some people here to play a computer game ?
I have no clue but I miss alot of people that get banned because they are critical thinkers .
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)For saying anything, for some of the oddest reasons I have ever seen in my life!!
It makes no sense whatsoever.