More about Bernie, MTP and guns

[merrily]

Please see: Video of Bernie on MTP, July 26, 2015 and DUers' comments at http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017281718
Please see also my earlier OP, titled "FWIW, a politifact article on Bernie and some of his gun votes." http://www.democraticunderground.com/128027343

FYI:

The State of Vermont is 9,523 square miles and the population is 626,562 (as of 2014). In 2011, 78 gun-related fatalities occurred in the State of Vermont. Vermonters hunt, including for food. http://www.pressherald.com/2014/11/23/vermont-trains-local-food-enthusiasts-adult-onset-hunters-to-bag-own-deer/

The City of New York is 469 square miles (all boroughs, not only Manhattan, the most densely populated) and the population is 8,405,837 (as of 2014). In 2011, 366 gun-related fatalities occurred in the City of New York, down from 524 in 2000. (They decreased further in 2012 and at least one article credits the decrease to a decrease in "stop and frisk.&quot

http://nypost.com/2013/04/29/city-gun-deaths-plummet/

To my surprise, there is also hunting in New York City, probably for food as well. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/recreation/hunting_and_trapping.shtml-t

What makes sense for the State of Vermont may not make sense for New York City, or vice versa. One size does not fit all, which is exactly why the Constitution provided for Senators that represent each state equally, regardless of the size and population of a state, and why Sanders points out that each state is, for the most part, free to make its own gun laws. However, be they state or federal, I have little doubt that the SCOTUS would strike down as unconstitutional the kinds of gun control laws some people want, anyway. And even less doubt that such laws would be challenged in court.

As Bernie says in the MTP video, the state of Vermont has no gun control at all. So, the stand of the people whom he is supposed to represent most is clear. Yet, he has voted for some control measures and says we must do more.

As Bernie also says in the MTP video, as Congress has been operating, compromise is necessary if anything at all is to get done. On the one hand, people make up shit about Bernie's being a purist. On the other hand, he's damned if he compromises.

On the one hand, we've been reminded often that Obama is President of all the people, not only THE most progressive in the land--and that is truer of a President than it is of a Senator. However, when Sanders is the Senator of all people in Vermont, not only the most anti-weapon contingent in Vermont, he gets damned. The ever shifting sands and double standards betray the speakers, but that is beside the point.


Finally, Sanders rating from the NRA is D- to F, not exactly indicative of a "gun nut."



I am not apologizing or rationalizing. I simply think we need to have facts at hand. Facts may not be easy to present as are bs one liners, but I am partial to them anyway.

[Mbrow]

1. I'll make a couple of quick points here

1. I work with a lot of POC because of my job and have made some good friends because of it. I do live in Idaho in a all white part of the state ( because of family), but i work all over the world for my job.
2. I have been around guns and have owned guns all my life (57years). I've needed to be qualified to use them for my Job in the past and now. I currently have a CCP good for most states. I travel a lot for pleasure and work and I do not carry a gun when traveling for fun. about the only time I have one is when i'm going to the range to keep in practice.
I've never had to point a gun at anyone. I'm also for background checks and restrictions.

And I support Bernie, My wife was a member of DSA for many year and still would be if we had anything like that here.

One size doesn't fit all.

[merrily]

2. I get it. I live in Boston. Small, densely populated. Gang violence.

Restrictions here make more sense, IMO.

[Mbrow]

6. Even in Idaho

We can have restrictions, I've been to gun shows here and they sell silenced weapons. WTF? What private citizen need a silenced weapon? not to mention background checks...

[merrily]

7. I agree that reasonable restrictions are needed everywhere.

I'm saying only that the State of Vermont need not be as restricted as the borough of Manhattan or the City of Boston.

We haven't hunted for food here in Boston in a long time. A V-E-R-Y long time. Maybe since before Paul Revere's ride.

[TBF]

3. "The state of Vermont has no gun control at all"

And despite this Bernie gets a F from the NRA? Who exactly is paying them off? (Rhetorical question, I think we all know Koch Bros. influence when we come across it)

[merrily]

4. The NRA no doubt rated Vermont state legislators a lot higher than it rated Bernie.

I saw a poster here post as though Bernie were responsible for Vermont state law. He isn't.

[TBF]

5. True, these things are state laws -

so I don't know how much credit we can give Bernie on that one. I think it makes him a more attractive candidate to moderates though. Expand social security, national health care, revamp student loans, let people hunt - these are all things most people want no matter if they call themselves dems or repugs on social issues.

That is the thing that is really interesting to me about this primary season. Hillary is thought to be more attractive to moderates because of her fiscal policy, but I don't buy the argument that most people support Wall Street. Now that people are figuring out how much control corporations/banks have in this country I don't think they support that at all. They support small business, opportunity, reasonable safety nets, personal freedom. Bernie gets that.

[merrily]

8. I hope with all my heart you're correct and that enough people get to know the difference between

him and her. We have so many disaffected voters who stopped paying attention years ago, if they ever did pay attention. The differences between two Democrats are more subtle than the differences between Republicans and Democrats--or so the story goes.

Getting people who are too disaffected to vote in the general excited enough to come out for a primary is a challenge. And, a lot will be up to us because the msm and the $$ and the DNC are all behind Hillary. It's on us, maybe as it never has been.