They were not "humble enough" and had to be shut down.Words of BLM founder.

[madfloridian]

Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Those are the reasons given for the Netroots Nation fiasco.

From Raw Story:

‘We will shut down every single debate’

“He couldn’t take 15 more minutes of the heat,” Cullors said of Sanders in an interview on This Week in Blackness, making reference to the senator ending his appearance as demonstrators at the event walked out en masse.

Journalist and activist Jose Antonio Vargas, who interviewed both Democratic candidates during the forum, later told The Raw Story that he was directed to wrap up his discussion with Sanders 15 minutes ahead of schedule.

Cullors told This Week host L. Joy Williams that she felt neither O’Malley nor Sanders were “humble enough” during their town hall appearance, and called on presidential candidates to be willing to openly discuss issues of race and gender.

“No more skirting around the issues,” Cullor said. “We will shut down every single debate.”

Posting here in the Bernie forum. Out of the GDP until later, much later.

I guess they will let us know when Bernie and Martin are humble enough.

Interesting article on funding, but doesn't go far enough.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/05/politics/funding-civil-rights-movement/

I maybe will be in Education and GD, or maybe not.

[n2doc]

1. I won't hold my breath waiting to see if they do this to HRC n/t

[madfloridian]

17. I won't either.

[uhnope]

132. Self-Promoting Narcissists seems to be in charge.

[Warpy]

37. Don't expect them to do it to the Republicans, either

Their main aim seems to be to get Republicans elected in 2016, that and listening to themselves scream at the only people who are motivated to do something about the problem they claim to be upset over.

[n2doc]

39. Certainly their actions seem to support one candidate

If HRC does get the same treatment, then I will believe that they actually do want to force the conversation their way. HRC however isn't out there much interacting with the base, is she?

[arcane1]

41. She's going to be given immunity since she answered a BLM question on Facebook today

I'll be pleasantly surprised if she gets the same treatment.

[n2doc]

47. Saw that. She was given 48 hours to answer

And by "she", I suspect that it was a team of people assigned to the issue. Probably with focus-group polling. That's how the Clintons roll.

[Warpy]

46. Only the "base" that still can claim to be upper middle class.

It's shaping up as a repeat of 2008, with Clinton being defeated by her friends rather than her enemies.

[Babel_17]

59. If a group overplays its hand, or is made to look like they are ...

If a group overplays its hand, or is made to look like they are, then the public is OK with shutting them down at rallies and debates. Fairness isn't the gauge of how that works.

911 widows, Code Pink, Viet Nam war protestors, and Occupy Wall Street, are groups that enjoyed lots of public support, but not enough at certain times.

A politician's hands could be dripping with the blood of innocents, and dollar bills from bribes, but if you interrupt their speech in a way the crowd doesn't approve of then you can be shut down.

Black Lives Matter, and it's laudable to work to make sure that politicians get that. But any hand can get overplayed*.

*And some hands consistently get underplayed. Like how our party keeps its powder dry while Dick Cheney gives advice to the nation during nationally televised interviews.

[eridani]

86. It's flat out impossible to do it to Clinton--or any Republican

Their events are far too tightly controlled for that. In 2004, someone tried to get into a Bush event with a Kerry T-shirt under his regular shirt, and was not allowed in.

[jwirr]

170. I don't believe that she will ever be a target. Was never meant to be.

[madfloridian]

2. Oh, and feel free...

to lock this if need be.

[SoapBox]

3. They're treating those that are most likely to help

in a disgraceful manner.

I did get thinking, do each and every one of those activists vote?

[madfloridian]

4. And people are actually being told to shut up.

I was last night.

When someone tries to post in Bernie's favor, others fear to rec it or engage.

That's called losing.

[Skittles]

58. essentially, only "certain people" are allowed an opinion

what country is this again?

[madfloridian]

61. ....

I was told to the effect my white privilege was showing. I hope I don't come across like that. I have tried not to. But yes, only some can speak out. After last night I won't be in GDP for a LONG time.

That's how to shut people up, attack them in big numbers and say ugly things.

[Skittles]

62. it is an attempt to shut down debate

fucking STUPID

[madfloridian]

63. Yes.

[TheKentuckian]

141. That is sometimes (though far from always) a convenient cudgel to shut down white liberals

because also only some black people's voices matter on this one. Anyone not on the anti economic justice bandwagon doesn't count and is kind of lumped in with Alan Keyes or Ben Carson (projection as they come a hell of a lot closer to them on most policy matters than I ever will).

I apparently missed the black community meeting where we decided to be natural but ostracized and unwelcome save as token props Republicans but if that is what "the community" is actually about then motherfuck it, it isn't for me and mine because our black lives don't seem to mean too much once the cops stop blasting, we can resume our regularly scheduled scuffle and daily struggle to avoid becoming feed for the racist ass institutions and systems these folks seem to be rallying around like some warmongering, "broken windows", drug warrior, austerian, polluting, job killing, banker worshipping corporatist fairy is going to wave their magic wand and rapture the racism out of our chestnut, root, trunk, limb, and leaf predatory social, legal, and economic structures.

This all seems to be an ongoing and willful effort to make any serious talk about economic justice taboo, and while most deny this some have been open that the offense is the "pivot back to economics". There are some folks committed to shutting the message down because it cuts through all the bullshit fog that has been pumped in for a generation.

We also aren't fucking blind, stupid, and naive. It is obvious who benefits as it is what brand of politicians always seem to be "good enough" and "comfortable with" no matter what.

[Eleanors38]

177. The dynamic you describe has been going on for nearly 50 years...

...that it's on the innertubes is a minor detail in history.

[merrily]

90. I don't think there is is a way to win DU, unless you own it or get paid to post or

simply don't worry about winning DU.

But, it's okay if you don't win DU because I hear first prize is not much anyway.

[BeyondGeography]

5. I don't know about Sanders, but O'Malley couldn't have been more humble

if he showed up with a "Kick Me" sign over his butt. Oh, I know he committed the cardinal sin of saying all lives matter, but his manner was patient and polite throughout. Plus he stuck around for as long as they wanted him to.

[madfloridian]

7. He wasn't humble enough.

O'Malley is a different person than Bernie. I am more like Bernie in that when someone shouts at me and tells me I have to do something now...I get stubborn.

I would rather have a president who will stand their ground than one who spends all day apologizing.

I though O'Malley was great and courteous to the protestors.

[BeyondGeography]

8. I thought Bernie came out better, actually

O'Malley got most of the headlines, with his apology for saying all lives matter (which would dog him until next election day if he somehow got there). Plus Cullors isn't distinguishing between the two anyway in her obnoxious assessment.

IMO, Bernie knew a losing proposition when he saw it and moved on.

[madfloridian]

10. This group has great media access.

The first response after the forum was in 2 categories...the candidates were forced off stage (not true) or they were unable to answer the questions. ( how could they over the shouting.)

[Babel_17]

64. Bernie knows the lessons learned in the '60s

You don't stand there and get shouted down. You don't allow yourself to be marginalized.

Sanders was a guest there, if they want him back he can now rightfully insist on ground rules against being shouted down. When an event is sponsored by the Sanders campaign there will be rules guaranteeing the rights of participants to hear and be heard.

And the general public will be OK with that.

[Autumn]

6. "he was directed to wrap up his discussion with Sanders" . Interesting

so much for the lie Bernie was angry ended it being posted by certain people .I won't even bother with the 'humble' bit. But here's what I plan on doing. I'm not going to bother with those threads anymore. I'm not going to be bothered by BLM's threat on shutting down every single debate, Bernie and O'Malley came out of this just fine. Bernie's showing in Arizona and Texas proved that. Hang in there, this will pass. There's enough good stuff to post on Bernie here in our group to keep us all occupied for the next 10 years that we don't even need GDP.

[2banon]

74. Another Spot On post Autumn.

hitting it right out of the park.

[merrily]

91. Vargas ended it, not Bernie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=27621

[madfloridian]

110. Did you read the comments after the Raw Story article?

Most are not happy about the interruptions.

And yes, we don't need GDP.

[PADemD]

155. I was criticized for using the term "BLM"

Even though it was used many times in that thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6994864

[Eleanors38]

178. I noted that Manatee *bloop* as well.

[madfloridian]

9. "not humble enough"..they were trying to break them. Those are telling words.

Deliberately trying to hurt them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

11. I don't know about that, but I do admit I haven't seen any explanation of

what that particular statement meant. Is 'humble' something people look for in a President? I may be living in a bubble, but I don't recall ever hearing people saying they wanted a 'humble' President.

[HooptieWagon]

16. A disruptive protester says the scheduled speakers weren't humble enough.

<facepalm>

[madfloridian]

20. I know, right?

[snagglepuss]

42. I'm sure that billionaires think Bernie isn't sufficiently humble either,

and that he doesn't know his place which is what humbleness is all about.

Knowing one's place in the minds of billionaires means that the denizens who make up the 99%, which includes people like Bernie, not getting high falutin ideas about changing a system that enriches billionaires and their wannabes.

That Cullor is spewing billionaire talking points is enough for me to strongly suspect he is a shill.

[Autumn]

76. You know mad, that "They were not "humble enough"

really fucking pisses me off.

[madfloridian]

83. Yes, it goes to motive....they wanted to put them in their place.

Wherever they thought that might be. Make them bleed.

Well, they effectively shut me up in that forum last night.

[whathehell]

103. Suggesting the blm activists might act more "humble' in

that situation would be beyond the pale, I suppose.

[Eleanors38]

179. If this is the attitude, then there is strong justification when folks don't talk...

...about racism, white privilege, etc. The dynamic suggests that Shame™ is the center of gravity in many of these "discussions"

Shame is flimsy foundation, esp. since it has been used for decades (and not just on racial matters), and because in the words of some of these practioners,

Nothing else works.

They won't listen.

If it hurts, that's even better.


Discussions usually go nowhere when that kind of weakness is acknowledged, and when that motivation is so explicit. In the 60s it was called "guilt-tripping." But it's the same shit in a Shinola can.

[madfloridian]

186. Just saw your post. This part:

"The dynamic suggests that Shame™ is the center of gravity in many of these "discussions"...... In the 60s it was called "guilt-tripping."

[Eleanors38]

187. There is a difference between now and then...

Then white liberals, the usual target for guilt-tripping, either fumbled about for a response, dropped a quarter into the bucket, or walked away in confusion.

Now, they actively resist the approach, as is seen here in these fora.

I don't see much good coming from this.

[madfloridian]

188. I don't think they would resist if....

they were not put on the defensive and automatically assumed to be a sort of enemy by racial implications.

I for one absolutely support the goals and the necessity of groups like Black Lives Matter. But I made the mistake of disagreeing with the way the shouting went down. There are others here who feel the same way. Others who like me were excited at the formation of the group and other groups. Enough so to donate.

But many of us are unable to post without being made be feel uncomfortable for being white.

I know of several who are just staying off DU because of this. I am not posting in GDP, and staying mostly here.

It's not a good situation. I have counted the loss of 10 DU friends since I started supporting Bernie Sanders. I have lost more here and at Twitter since I posted a video of Bernie speaking to that cause in June. I am considered playing the victim and of white privilege.

Been here 13 years this month. That may have been long enough.

[Eleanors38]

189. There is a peculiar and corrosive dynamic at DU which demands one genuflect...

before some body, some entity, some belief, even as that person is shamed and guilt-tripped. It is more than with the Bernie/Hillary division:

1). Many feminists demand from men an admission from men of sexism, sexism being a highly structured minefield.

2). Many blacks and others demand of whites an admission of privilege, often for no other reason than to "humble," with no plan beyond that.

3). Some gun-controllers demand compassion and guilt from pro-2A, even as they exhibit no compassion within their raging hostility.

I have chosen to dig-in and doubledown on 3) because that issue has caused so much damage from so few elitists (imo), and can be turned around. I think there is evidence of that in the last few years. But 1) and 2) have taken on a king/queen-of-the-hill approach with the trumps of "sexism," "racism" and "privilege" being played in most arguments, that discussion is not viable, and evidently not the aim.

[TexasBushwhacker]

190. If "humble enough" means twiddling their thumbs

while BLM yells at them

[jomin41]

12. Which "humble" republican would they prefer? nt

[madfloridian]

21. Good question.

[Scuba]

23. Hillary.

[TBF]

34. And that's the answer. nt

[840high]

71. Darn - you beat me to it. They

may get their wish and live to regret it.

[Tommymac]

94. Unfortunately if She wins they may get a position

in her administration. That's how these things sometimes play out. Remember the Miami Election Office 'Riot' in 2000...

[madfloridian]

191. I remember it well.

Yelling down our democracy.

[virtualobserver]

53. they are humble before their Billionaire masters n/t

[TheKentuckian]

146. Clinton because optics and connections or some such absurd, reality mooning nonsense

[Half-Century Man]

13. I've been DUing piece meal over the last week so I'm a bit out of the loop.

But from what I gather, BLM staged a gorilla event (planned by a few and unannounced) at a town hall meeting. Okay, from the fall out, I gather it was successful, the point they wanted is the most talked about topic. Good.
Now, what solutions are they, or anybody, proposing? Where do we go from here?

One more thing; I saw proposals that a debate focus exclusively on BLM. I think this is a bad idea. I see a greater need for it to be a part of every debate. It is not a thing that has a single magic answer or event to correct.

[madfloridian]

19. There is group now in GDP telling people to hush, to shut up about it.

The whole last third of comments in my last post is that way.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251459005

[scarletwoman]

49. You know, I did my best to be as gentle with you as I could in that thread last night.

But you are so determined to cherish your sense of victimhood, to cherish your opinions, that there seems to be no way of getting through to you.

I'm very sorry about that. I've liked you for many many years, liked your passion for education and all the wonderful posts you've written on the subject over the years, and have always respected you.

So it hurts to see you so stuck on defending this shallow, white-privileged read on things. You seem to simply not want to consider that you might have something to learn. That you might have room for growing your consciousness. That just maybe our AA brothers and sisters have something worthwhile to say to you/us and to teach you/us. You seem to categorically refuse to consider that possibility.

I honestly can't understand it. How can it not be obvious to someone of your intelligence?

But I'll leave you alone now. I know there's nothing I have to say that you want to hear, and I'm sorry.

[madfloridian]

50. Oh, yes, the victimhood again.

Got it. Not stupid.

[madfloridian]

51. Oh, and thanks for being gentle.

[2banon]

75. omg. what condescending bs

no words. really. way off base here. wow. just wow.

[scarletwoman]

78. Not to worry, I will make sure to not post in this group again.

If you read my posts in Mad's GD-P thread, you'll see I was trying to cheer her up and telling her we could have faith in Bernie:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=461083

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=461121

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=461204

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=461304

[Babel_17]

97. This message board is loaded with sugary condescension

It's being used blatantly and with a heavy hand so not ultimately helping the users cause. It's not like it's some new tactic and overwhelming its targets by virtue of surprise.

More like, "yuck, keep those sticky hands off me!", if you know what i mean.

[2banon]

138. hmm. I'll take that into advisement.. thanks.

[abelenkpe]

137. Sometimes people do more to

Damage their own credibility when they post.

[msanthrope]

111. I already had that experience with this poster.....over racial issues.

When she was invited to come into the AA group and discuss particular racial issues she declined. and not well.

[madfloridian]

116. "that poster" you think is racist is posting in the Bernie group...NOT GDP

I'm so out of GDP, SO tired of being accused of being racist.

You said:

I already had that experience with this poster.....over racial issues.

When she was invited to come into the AA group and discuss particular racial issues she declined. and not well.

[msanthrope]

118. I have never called you a racist, madflo. I think your conduct

on t he matter speaks for itself...

frankly what stuns me is this......Bernie did not handle BLM as deftly as he could have. but that was not a major misstep. you learn you move on..... you get better at disseminating the messages you want to give to your constituencies. I have no doubt Bernie's staff is capable of doing this.

the utter over reaction on so many levels of his supporters on this website and other places, however, has now become the story. the utter cluelessness with which I have seen so many white liberal progressives handle this is simply amazing. it is as if no 1 has ever worked a campaign before.

y'all need to chill out or its going to be a damn short campaign for your candidate.

[madfloridian]

119. " y'all need to chill out or its going to be a damn short campaign for your candidate."

Uh, no. Not at all.

[msanthrope]

121. some study of the Streisand effect would benefit you guys quite a bit.

hell why not let Bernies staff deal with this? if they can't they don't deserve to be in a presidential race. what the hell do you thinks going to happen when the Republicans start hitting him?

[madfloridian]

123. It is not about Bernie. It is about mutual respect.

If you don't know what I mean, then I don't know what else to say.

[msanthrope]

127. no one owes Bernie any respect. he's a presidential candidate let him earn it.

I have no doubt that he will.

[marym625]

145. He has earned respect

And he has done absolutely nothing to lose any respect.

30 years, faithfully serving people deserves respect. You better fucking believe he has earned it.

[madfloridian]

120. "utter over reaction" "utter cluelessness"

I disagree.

You also said:

the utter cluelessness with which I have seen so many white liberal progressives handle this is simply amazing. it is as if no 1 has ever worked a campaign before.

Wow.

[msanthrope]

124. seriously you all have been posting OPs when you should have been asking questions and listening

To the answers provided you by so many African American posters here on DU.

[madfloridian]

125. There you go again.

[msanthrope]

129. quoting Ronald Reagan to me doesn't exactly make your point now does it? nt

[madfloridian]

134. Well, when you come into the Bernie forum for some digs at me....

you can expect me to react a little.

[msanthrope]

136. so your go to source is Ronald Reagan? nt

[Autumn]

144. That's a quote from Ronald Reagan like Ladies and gentlemen is a quote from him.

But you are correct your posting in here does speaks volumes about your conduct and character. I gave you a warning..

[madfloridian]

122. Implied it all over the forum...might as well have said it out loud.

I am tired of being made to feel guilty because I was born with white skin.

I have always tried to be kind to others. Doesn't seem to matter if I disagree.

I think the shouting down was embarrassing. I am not esp. concerned about how the candidates did...my problem is that only the view of the protestors was allowed to be heard.

So go ahead and have your say...but if you say racist again than prove it.

[msanthrope]

126. I'm white and nobody makes me feel guilty about it.

I find that most African American people I know tend to judge me on my conduct and my character.

[madfloridian]

128. You are judging my conduct and my character now? Really?

[msanthrope]

131. not at all. I think your conduct and your character speaks clearly to every single

DUer. as does mine.

[BuelahWitch]

142. Yes, YOUR conduct speaks volumes

You came into the Bernie group for the purpose of stalking MadFloridian, just like you do in every other group here. I hope your ass gets kicked out and banned.

[Autumn]

139. This is the Bernie Sanders group. Please post accordingly

and respect the members while posting in our group/

[BuelahWitch]

143. Kick her ass out!

She's a fucking stalker!

[madfloridian]

147. It's okay. Let the words stand.

I refuse to alert. But I agree with you on many levels.

I am only posting here or GD or Education or maybe food.

[Autumn]

150. Sorry I didn't catch it sooner. But she's blocked

[madfloridian]

151. Thanks, Autumn

[Autumn]

152. Gonna be nice when all this is over

[madfloridian]

153. ....

Oh yeah it will be.

You have a thankless job. Thanks for taking it on.

[Autumn]

156. I almost feel bad, I blocked a Bernie Sanders supporter!!!! Oh Noes!!!!

[marym625]

158. No worries

We can all unblock. Block then unblock until they know we all want them

[madfloridian]

162. ......

[BuelahWitch]

165. With a Hilary avatar yet! n/t

[Autumn]

149. She's gone

[beam me up scottie]

164. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110713354

[Autumn]

173. I know. If only people were able to read the SOP for our group or had someone read it for them,

then someone could tell her that not only is being critical of Bernie a no no that also applies to .......just his supporters..... while in this group it is a safe haven for the members. It's almost like none of them have seen how fast people get blocked in their group.

[beam me up scottie]

175. All I did is go in the BSG and insult all of them. AND THEY BANNED ME FOR IT!!1!

How dare you?

[Autumn]

182. God we are terrible. Skinner should have made us our own site and made us all go there.

[beam me up scottie]

183. BernieHasMoMoJo

[Autumn]

184. ...

[madfloridian]

174. lol did you see this post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=13437

I call that place the Bernie Ranch.

(as in Bundy Ranch)

They really don't like Bernie supporters there.

[beam me up scottie]

176. The Bundy Ranch? Well I call that place the Pity Party Palace.

But I guess when you don't have dozens of awesome positive threads to post in your group you have to go with what you know.

Don't let it get to you, that's how you know Bernie is having a good day.

[BuelahWitch]

166. Thank you

Sorry about my tantrum, but I hate bullies.

[Lordquinton]

163. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:37 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Kick her ass out!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=28044

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This person's over the top and bizarre reaction to what is apparently a fairly civil conversation between MadFloridian and msanthrope is really ridiculous. This type of post would not be accepted anywhere on this site

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:54 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: While I agree with the poster's perspective, the way the sentiment was expressed is outside TOS.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is the Bernie Sanders safe haven, if this had happened in the Hillary group the hosts would have banned them on the first post and been high fiveing over it. Hillary supporters need to learn to take what they dish out.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I disagree. mrsthrope is a HC supporter that came into the BS group with the intent of gossiping about a member. Leave it be.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Ed Suspicious]

22. *guerrilla

[Half-Century Man]

44. Thanks, posted in a parking lot, lack of resources there,

[HooptieWagon]

14. Did RawStory watch the video?

I did. Time ran out. Bernie started late because of the interruption by the protesters. Bernie finished at the scheduled time, he had another event to attend later.

[madfloridian]

15. I posted the videos.

Last night I was literally truly told to stop, shut up, I am the embodiment of every white progressive talking point.

The videos did not get a wide viewing, I guess the shouting was too much for some.

Those aren't the words of Raw Story, those are the words of the BLM founder.

[HooptieWagon]

18. I guess they don't want help from whites.

I don't see how they can solve the problem without building a coalition, but so be it.

[SoapBox]

24. As I said...

It takes a village (don't gag on that).

But when you only want what you want...when you refuse to listen to those that you are demanding make changes...when you shut down those that would be the most willing to help you...and then you say they aren't "humble"...and then you say that All Lives do NOT matter, that ONLY Black Lives matter...and all you do is SCREAM...

You've lost the vast majority support, that you need to help create real changes.

[madfloridian]

25. There are some interesting comments after the CNN article.

[DinahMoeHum]

26. If BLM wants my respect back, let them go after GOP candidates. . .

. . .with the same furor they had at Netroots Nation.

Otherwise, I'm calling BS on them.

[HooptieWagon]

30. I think calling them thugs is unfair, even if their tactics are wrong. Nt

[arcane1]

31. Agreed. I'd add "inaccurate" and "counter-productive" in addition to "unfair" n/t

[HooptieWagon]

33. Yes.

Although I'd also describe BLMs tactics as counterproductive. But thugs they're not.

[arcane1]

35. Agreed once again!

[historylovr]

117. I'm not going to hold my breath for them.

We have someone from the clown car here in my town every week, sometimes several, and sometimes all on the same day. I haven't heard a peep about BLM disrupting anything yet. I heard Paul had a thing in Texas after NN and they were a no-show there as well. So it looks like that "shut down every single debate" came with an asterisk.

[orpupilofnature57]

27. Castigating the wrong people is as bad as letting the culpable of the hook, Hillary still

waving talking poetry .

[arcane1]

28. That makes it sound like it wasn't about their concerns, but about doing a PR stunt

As if the most important thing was for these candidates to be seen getting yelled at for their perceived cluelessness.

[madfloridian]

36. They deliberately put them on the spot and embarrassed them.

[Tommymac]

95. After watching the videos and evaluating, agreed.

They ambushed the event to vent their anger. Whether there were other motives besides this - time will tell, though the comments stated in in the OP in my mind show there may have been more to this than meets the eye.

[jwirr]

172. I think there is one more reason for this event. To keep the issue in the public eye. I have no

problem with protesting at NN but I do have a problem when the two candidates were not allowed to answer. That is what they were there for to state their policies. To shut them down the way they did never allowed for an answer.

[historylovr]

40. That was my thought too, and I've been struggling with a diplomatic way to say it.

So I'll just second yours.

After all, one must accept the wisdom of an arcane one.

[Warpy]

32. Rubbish. They were rude and only wanted to listen to themselves.

Is there a problem? HELL YES there's a problem. Sanders has addressed that problem to people who will listen to what he says. Of course, there have to be more particulars, like having the DOJ come down on local cops who do DWB stops and other racial harassment.

Screaming kids only turn people off, especially when their only aim is vandalizing the political process, shutting everything and everyone else down. I hope Cullors has other tactics she's working on, that one's not going to work.

We found that out back in the 60s. Screaming kids are part of what got us Nixon.

Why should Sanders have stuck around to be screamed at? They weren't going to stop. There was nothing to do but walk away. I'd have done so, also.

[HooptieWagon]

38. I agree about the 60s.

The anti-war protesters were 100% right in their cause, but their tactics were ineffective. We got Nixon (twice) and the war continued into the 70s.
The biggest things that changed public opinion on the war was servicemen coming home and telling their parents we had no business being in Vietnam, and a major network evening news anchor (can't remember which one) going off script and saying the government was lying to us, we were not winning the war.

[Warpy]

45. Remember the 1968 protests at the Democratic National Convention?

Yes, the violence was mostly from a bunch of hard hat guys wanting to beat up those damn know it all college punks and the crooked Chicago cops, but why the protests were there is a mystery to me. It might have made sense had Johnson sought a second term, but he didn't.

More than anything else, that gave us Nixon.

Walter Cronkite was the anchor who went off script and said the whole thing had been a horrible mistake from the beginning and we needed to end the carnage any way we could.

[HooptieWagon]

48. Yep, I remember.

Chicago, Kent State. I was beginning to be politically aware then, too young to participate let alone vote. But trying to make sense of it all. Ending that ridiculous war was a just cause, but so many went about it in unproductive ways.
I did get to meet Abbie Hoffman and hang out with him a decade+ later. Pretty amazing guy, a magnetic personality. A real tragedy.
I was thinking it was Cronkite, but couldn't remember for sure. He was "the most trusted man in America". When he dropped that bombshell it was a game-changer.

[merrily]

88. Catch 22: If we protest the establishment we lose, and if we don't protest, we also lose.

[Warpy]

112. What lost was the violence

Nonviolent protestors have to stay that way. If a bunch of thugs show up, leave the area and reassemble somewhere else. Keep them guessing and wear them out chasing you around.

Old white guy newscasters were just as crooked back then and of course they said the Chicago 7 started the violence. People believed them.

[merrily]

159. I don't think either kind of protest works.

And, somehow, it's always the fault of the protestors. They were too violent. They didn't protest enough. Their numbers were too small. They didn't have the right message. And so on.

Same thing with politics in general. It's the fault of the voters. Not enough showed up. They voted against their own interests. On and on.

It's bullshit, but we keep buying into it and trying to make ourselves better. It's not us. They're the ones who need to be better.

[Warpy]

160. Oh, I agree with what you're saying, I'm just telling it like it was

The most effective protest I've ever seen was the OWS movement that spread across the country. Yes, it was violently crushed, but not before it woke one hell of a lot of people up. The way it was crushed woke even more people up. As a means of educating people to the reality of their own oppression, I have never seen anything else that came close.

And it's not the fault of the voters. It's the fault of the hidebound conservatives at the top who are convinced they don't count and refuse to GOTV or motivate them with anything but more of the same shit that's killing them.

[merrily]

161. Not only that it was crushed, but who crushed it.

At the time, I was posting on a different leftist board with a union guy from Oregon who kept telling me that his mayor was different. Eventually, he said, never mind. you were right. And he left the board. I loved posting with him. I wish I knew what happened to him.

[bobalew]

60. We got Nixon twice because Turd Blossom Used Computer technology

in the late 60's & 70's. Yeah he was around then, too. A young whippersnapper of a grad student, in a corduroy 3 Piece suit & long hair, using IBM 300's to consolidate the Republican base in a database. This created the Republican mailing list which boosted their turnout. That is why we ended up with NIxon, the crook. And Of course , the media.... Don't forget them. I was there, & watched the whole thing go down, Then ended in the DC area for that summer & got to see beginnings of the Watergate break-in backlash, by being a door to door salesman in Arlington & DC. Met many of the reporters, & Georgetown journalism Professors, who were in the thick of it. Sometimes converging with history gets you a bigger & more detailed perspective on things. AND, the Anti-War marchers, DID make a difference, no matter what revision you have of that history. I was there, too, in the streets. When it got to costly & no one made a Profit off the war & too many were dead, finally turned the tide.At that point the war costs could no longer be hidden, and the economic burden of it finally hit home. It took all of the 80's to pay that debt off, and recover from it, including the hit to the youth population. A lot of Vietnam Vets STILL have yet to recover from that Fiasco.

[HooptieWagon]

67. Also, Roger Ailes was a media advisor for Nixons campaign.

I'll have to disagree with you on the protests. They began late '64, '65 really. Not much resulted. Cronkite made his statement in Feb 68, LBJ announced he would not seek re election in March, likely as a result of Cronkites statement. '68 was probably the peak of the protests, but public sentiment was already shifting, imo significantly due to Cronkites statement. Nixon was elected, imo due to the deep fracture in the Democratic Party. Had Bobby not been assassinated, he would have secured the nomination and beaten Nixon handily. The protests continued, until Kent State occurred. That was the effective end of the protest movement. The war continued on for another 5 years. I don't think the protests ended it. They did have some effect, but considering what was lost it was a poor bargain. The RW side of the GOP took over, Carter only was elected because of disgust with Watergate. He only lasted one term, and we got Reagan and BushI. IOW, had Nixon not fucked up, the GOP would have held the Presidency for 24 straight years.

[merrily]

89. Bookmarked. I love info that cuts back against the notion that we lose unless we

sit down down and shut up. Because we also lose if we sit down and shut up.

[wilsonbooks]

73. That was Walter Cronkite

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106775685

[madfloridian]

43. It takes more than one to hold a conversation.

The first year of desegregation many years ago...a parent got angry with me over something that I was required to do.

I was going through some deep personal crises at the time, raising two little ones on my own.

She was so mad at me. She yelled that I was up in my white ivory tower judging all of the new students. I said whoa, you come in here and sit down and hear about my ivory tower.

She listened. We ended up with hugs and a few tears on each side.

She was one of my biggest defenders at a time in the 60s when we as teachers needed all the friends we could get.

We both listened through our anger.

I can not listen when someone is constantly on the attack. I posted words Bernie spoke which should be acknowledged. Then I am told that what he did doesn't matter. Really? Truly? A lifetime of good works doesn't matter? My ears do not like to hear that.

[onecaliberal]

52. Listening on both sides.

+100000

[aspirant]

54. Agree

I'm going to wait and see if the next Hillary or Repub event contains BLM groups shouting at them.

If any security guards come and drag them away at these events, then they must admit the militarization of police and security are what these candidates are all about.

Why isn't anyone talking about the host. He did nothing to resolve this situation and actually egged it on. I saw him take out his phone and I assumed he took pictures of the screamers.

[HooptieWagon]

55. That morning, there was a BLM panel discussion.

Hosted by Goldie Taylor. Attended by Patrisse Cullors (the mouthpiece for the protesters). In attendance was Rep Hank Johnson. He is a member of the CBC and CPC, I think he's also on the House Judiary Committee. Definately a good ear to have that can support legislation on behalf of BLM, if that is their goal.
He's also listed as one of Hillarys Congressional endorsements.

Okay, I located a video of the panel. Don't have time to watch it now, will watch later. I doubt there was any discussion about the planned protest. It was open to the public.

[Babel_17]

56. Not the path to victory these leaders are hoping for

Though they are correct in that "humbleness" is something that the public looks for in those who will lead. We've seen this since the '60s, and history shows earlier examples. It's all too easy for those in the front of a movement to lose sight of the interests of their movement and instead see the need for ego satisfying moments.

The great leaders of the past understood this down to their bones. The great leaders of today know it as well.

[Skittles]

57. idiots

[WillyT]

65. Thank You For That...

[Babel_17]

66. Worth reading

http://oliverwillis.com/2015/07/18/blacklivesmatter-and-impotent-rage-netroots-nation-edition/

On Saturday at Netroots Nation, “black lives matter” protesters effectively took over the stage during a question and answer session with Martin O’Malley, and shouted throughout another session with Bernie Sanders. O’Malley spoke about raising the minimum wage and ending the industrial priso complex. Sanders talked about wealth inequality and immigration reform.

The protestors likely didn’t hear any of this over the sounds of their own egos.

There is a fine and upstanding tradition in America of protest. At its most effective, protest is a great tool towards changing public attitudes about key issues (gender, race, sexual orientation, economic policies) and has actually been able to pass laws producing amazing change.

At its worst, protest can simply be an exercise in vanity, an almost childish temper tantrum with no goal or policy set in mind beyond the venal egos of the protesters.

This event appears to be the latter.

More at link.

http://oliverwillis.com/about/

[madfloridian]

68. Thanks, love to read Oliver Willis's stuff.

I do not always agree, but he makes his points so well.

But instead, they yelled at Bernie Sanders and Martin O’Malley, which accomplishes nothing more than proving the case that there are elements of the left who would protest the Easter Bunny if it meant being able to yell some sort of slogan.

I bet they feel great about themselves, having done nothing to advance the issues they profess to care so dearly about. I bet they feel great.

Wow, good to hear his stance on this. I have read his stuff for years.

[840high]

80. +1

[LuvNewcastle]

92. That's basically what I've been thinking.

It was about making a spectacle of themselves. If they were serious people, they would have found a good way to raise their issue and use that to educate people about their cause. It's a shame that the BLM is now associated with rude, self-aggrandizing people.

[Tommymac]

96. Yup. IMO they have marginalized their own voices in exchange for a brief moment in the sun.

All for a brief '15 minutes' of coverage in the media. If they had actually engaged in a dialogue with the candidates after their initial protest then they would have moved onto a path of action that is so much more fruitful. Granted they made a media friendly spectacle of themselves, got some air time, opened some eyes and started a limited discussion of their issues; but in the long run their 'tactics of anger' are detrimental and will once again make the majority of common folk shake their heads and move on.

[Babel_17]

98. Having a reputation for ambush and breaking agreements ...

Having a reputation for ambush and breaking agreements is not a reliable path for gaining access.

Politicians will always weigh the cost benefit of meeting with such leaders. There is now an incentive to deal with more responsible representatives for the issue of Black Lives Matter. Politicians look weak if all they do is cave in to the egomaniacs and disruptors of politics. But they risk looking like louts if they seem to be disrespecting the important issues these types are part of.

However this breaks we'll be hearing more from those creating a twitterstorm over it. But activism based on it and similar means are among the most prone to sinking into irrelevancy. The current leadership is at high risk for being seen as a cliche by the media. They should ask veterans of activist causes about how that works. Hearing about it might provide a needed wake up call.

The current leaders popularity is now fueled in part by the excess that went into what happened at the Netroots Nation events. Excess demands further excess and that will compel some interesting and likely counter productive confrontations. Pushing onto stage at a HRC event would mean getting past the Secret Service detail. So that won't come even close to happening.

What will likely happen is a meeting with the event organizers before HRC speaks. Oh, to be a fly on the wall for that negotiation. BLM leaders have gained some juice, now what?

Bonus link and video: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2015/0625/You-re-in-my-house-How-Obama-handles-hecklers-video

[Zorra]

69. I will not vote for Hillary Clinton. This was a set-up by the Third Way,

and #blm completely pissed all over a big weekend for the Arizona Latino community.

The MSM is completely ignoring the fact that this NN event was held in Phoenix, and the primary focus of the event was immigration.

The MSM is completely ignoring the fact that #blm disrespected the Hispanic community.

Not even a peep about immigration or the Latino community in the MSM news.

[madfloridian]

70. You make a good comment.

I realized immigration would be an issue. It's like that threw cold water over anyone else's issues.

Thanks for mentioning that.

[historylovr]

72. I must admit I hadn't followed what would be happening at NN, but wow

that makes the whole frame-up even more upsetting, that it took away from immigration issues as well. I just saw that there was a BLM panel too. I guess that wasn't good enough, either.

[840high]

81. Good point.

[Babel_17]

100. I have to admit that I needed that to be pointed out

I didn't read enough about what was going on there to see that. A appreciate your pointing this out.

[TM99]

102. That is a good point you are raising

that I had not personally thought about.

That is the problem with Post New Left liberalism. We get so caught up in our own safe spaces for our own oppressed groups that we forget that others are also oppressed as well.

Sanders specifically met with Latino leaders that afternoon before his speech. He addressed immigration issues head on in his speech to much applause. His introduction was given by a young Hispanic woman who is a CTA union member.

This needs reporting on but it won't be by the MSM. They like only the juicy divide and conquer shit that is now stirred.

I love the protests and I fully support BLM. Ironically, one of the stated goals of BLM is support for immigration reform. Why are we not talking about that?

[napi21]

77. What exactly does "humble enough" look like?

It's an honest question. What did they want these guys to do or say?

I know O'Malley screwed up when he said sure black lives matter, white lives matter, all lives matter. I think he knew he screwed up too as soon as he said it.

I got the feeling though, that no matter what was said, the protestors would have objected. It was disruption to get attention , which worked by the way.

Even thinking as a Monday morning QB, I can't think of anything either of them could have said to please the protestors.

[HooptieWagon]

79. There was nothing the candidates could have said.

The disruption was planned in advance. The candidates could have given glowing speeches about black lives mattering, but the protesters had already committed to disrupting.

Just that morning the chief mouthpiece, Patrisse Collors, participated in a BLM panel discussion that included Rep Hank Johnson (member of House Judiciary Committee). I think it would have been appropriate to ask him what was being done on the legislative side. That wasn't done, I guess she didn't want to put him on the spot...he's a declared Hillary supporter.

And then the Twitter bomb shows up on cue. What a coincidence.

[madfloridian]

84. Your post is correct. Nothing they said mattered. The agenda mattered.

[Babel_17]

99. It was about a demonstration of power

Taking away the stage was part of that. Not letting the guests speak was part of that. It being an ambush and in violation of the host's agreement was part of that.

Sometimes those tactics work, at least in the short haul. As for winning hearts and minds in the long haul ... well, you need to have a plan for a way forward. Abject surrender can be a very hard goal to achieve.

Like I said here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=27674

The current leaders popularity is now fueled in part by the excess that went into what happened at the Netroots Nation events. Excess demands further excess and that will compel some interesting and likely counter productive confrontations.

[840high]

82. You are right - they did not come to listen.

[madfloridian]

85. Another video of protests from CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroots-nation-black-lives-matter/

"Black lives matter! Black lives matter!" they shouted toward O'Malley, and began a call-and-repeat rallying cry that activists have been using in the wake of the death of 28-year-old Sandra Bland, who died in police custody last week. "If I die in police in custody!" one of the chants went, "Burn everything down! That's the only way mother******* like you listen!"

Conference organizers begged them to allow O'Malley to respond.

..."I think all of us as Americans have a responsibility to recognize the pain and the grief throughout our country from all of the lives that have been lost to violence, whether that's violence at the hands at the police or whether that's violence at the hands of civilians," O'Malley said, before being interrupted again.

"Don't generalize this s***!" one person shouted back.

..."Black lives, of course, matter. I spent 50 years of my life fighting for civil rights and for dignity," he said. "But if you don't want me to be here, that's OK. I don't want to outscream people."

Black people are dying in this country because we have a criminal justice system which is out of control, a system in which over 50% of young African-American kids are unemployed," Sanders said. "It is estimated that a black baby born today has a one in four chance of ending up in the criminal justice system."

Since I have spoken out in defense of the candidates, I am wondering now if my time here is limited.

But then when you look at the new philosophy that what Sanders did for decades doesn't matter unless he says exactly the right words...then we can assume that nothing any of us has done in the past matters either.

A life that doesn't matter, a very sad thing. No wonder Bernie got a little perturbed.

Watch the video.

[merrily]

87. I thought Vargas had to end Bernie's appearance because the demonstrations and

speeches, especially, during O'Malley's time, had consumed all the the available time.

I thought I had read that somewhere in this group?

On edit: found it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/128026432#post4

Vargas ended it.

[madfloridian]

107. I wonder exactly who told him to end it.

[merrily]

108. If our msm were not so vile, someone might be grilling Vargas on that and more.

[oldandhappy]

93. Will be watching for humility on the repub side

[HFRN]

101. if they do it to all but the most powerful candidates and republicans

their leadership will be suspect, whether guilty or not

[historylovr]

104. The more I think about that phrase, the more it pisses me off.

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:32 PM - Edit history (1)

"Not humble enough." Someone needs to look in the mirror.

[FloriTexan]

105. Kick...

Post it everywhere.

[madfloridian]

106. Please note Zorra's post..this was intended to be a week-end for Latino community.

Post #69

The big issue was to have been immigration issues. The protest even overshadowed the march to the jail protesting Joe Arpaio, it overshadowed the planned issues by the Phoenix Latino community.

That in itself is shameful.

Trying to "humble" 2 candidates hurt a community as well.

[SoapBox]

113. Ditto.

[madfloridian]

109. BTW this is NOT about protecting Bernie Sanders. He's a big boy who can defend himself.

I just saw a post from someone saying that because I was questioning the wisdom of not allowing the candidates to speak when they had been invited to do so...that I was hurting Bernie Sanders and would cause African Americans not to vote for him.

I disagree.

This is about more than that....the very thought of shouting at our candidates to "humble" them upsets me.

In another post here it is said that views on this were generational or regional. I think they meant older white southerners.

I would like to think it simply is a way to shut down other voices instead of allowing all to be heard.

Not about Bernie anymore...goes deeper.

[SoapBox]

114. Also ditto.

[madfloridian]

115. Thanks..

[madfloridian]

130. Wow, good thing I stayed out of GDP.

No telling what may have happened. I refuse to alert, just let it be.

[pa28]

133. Nothing will ever be "humble enough".

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie had scheduled a face to face meeting with BLM activists for later in the day for an in-depth discussion covering any topic of their choosing. Instead he got yelled at for 15 minutes for absolutely no reason. That doesn't point to a sincere interest in discussion and Bernie did the right thing in canceling the meeting.

Good for him.

[Blue_In_AK]

135. This is just my opinion, and I feel safe saying it here.

I think BLM walks a very fine line between making their feelings known in a public way and alienating people who are aligned with their goals. I don't see how disruption for disruption's sake, berating people who are your friends, is productive. I think Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley and indeed Hillary Clinton all understand the seriousness of this movement, so why not sit down for face-to-face talks and come to agreements about what concrete steps can be taken to encourage a dialog between the races. If you want to yell at someone, take on the Republicans, the real enemies. It doesn't take that much courage to vent to your friends; confronting the Republicans is where the real battle lies.

[madfloridian]

140. Well said, Blue.

Thanks.

[peacebird]

181. You said it far better than I...

[madfloridian]

148. It's all okay now..CNN says Bernie acting humble now.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/19/politics/bernie-sanders-african-americans-2016-netroots/index.html

Sanders re-emerged later that evening for a short speech at a private fundraiser for the Latino Victory Project, an advocacy group led by major Democratic donors that focuses on Latino outreach, where he, again, took questions about race.

But instead of adopting the defensive stance from that morning, Sanders' tone changed. He appeared humble, and asked questions of the activists gathered about how he could better pursue and talk about policies to combat racial injustice.

[Warpy]

154. Way to make enemies, Stupid.

Shutting things down because of your own stinkin' thinkin' is not going to win you any friends.

It's going to get you ejected on sight.

Black lives matter. The way to keep the cops and Middle America thinking they don't is by pulling juvenile shit like this.

[L0oniX]

157. IMO #BLM has invalidated itself with their tactic.

[nc4bo]

168. Got an alert on this and that's the only reason I am here.

Just EXACTLY what do you mean by using this obviously RACIAL SLUR.

is wrong with you?!

[MerryBlooms]

169. Jury results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:10 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

She so booshie.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=28438

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling the female spokesperson for this movement "booshie" is racist as hell. Google the word before you vote on this alert.Cripes.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:19 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Racist as hell. -Agschmid
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The only negative reference that can be found appears to be from Urbandictionary which is complete nonsense more often than not as there's no filter for the morons that post there.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not sure of this post is "ok" but will most certainly ask some questions regarding intent then go from there.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Racist and misogynistic. Disgusting.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[madfloridian]

171. Glad I didn't see it

Glad it got hidden.

[peacebird]

180. "Not humble enough"? Ok, when are they going to shout down HRC and the Repub candidates ?

This is an important issue, we need this dialog, and am a supporter of BLM but even so, I find that comment troubling. Like I said, maybe IF we see them shout down Hillary, Trump, Bush, and the rest.... But right now, reading that interview makes me feel ... Well let's just say I am disappointed.

[madfloridian]

185. Yes, there is much need for that group. The purpose is a good one.

But I disagree with the way it was done.