Is It Me Or Is There A Concerted Effort Being Made To Attack Bernie....

[global1]

from a racial perspective? It appears that an organized campaign has been initiated. Where is this coming from or am I being too naive here?

[Kalidurga]

1. Yes, there is it's okay though

The more people attack the more Bernie gets to talk about what he has done and what he will do. Eventually people will get it or they won't. I don't care.

[merrily]

31. Oh, it's just the same ole, same ole shuckin' and jivin'

[DisgustipatedinCA]

71. Someone alerted on you for being "disgustingly racist". Voted to keep.

Here's what Wikipedia says about the term. I trust you were going for the first definition, as I've never seen you say anything racist, so I voted to keep.

Shuckin' and jivin' (or shucking and jiving) is a slang term for the behavior of joking and acting evasively. More generally, the term can also refer to the speech and behavioral mechanisms adopted in the presence of an authoritative figure.[1] Shuckin' and jivin' usually involves clever lies and impromptu storytelling, used to one-up an opponent or avoid punishment. The term was also used in the Southern United States during the era of American black slavery referring to deceit or mischief.[citation needed] In Ribbin', Jivin', and Playin' the Dozens: The Persistent Dilemma in Our Schools, Herbert L. Foster writes, "Shuckin' and jivin' is a verbal and physical technique some blacks use to avoid difficulty, to accommodate some authority figure, and in the extreme, to save a life or to save oneself from being beaten physically or psychologically."[2]

--

Edited to add the results:

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Disgustingly racist- shucking and jiving?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:37 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a bullshit alert.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No place here for racially slanted language.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Racist.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ridiculous.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[merrily]

73. Thanks. Ironic My intent: Referring to Andrew Cuomo's remark about Obama during the 2008 primary,

which I considered to be both racist and suspect, since the term "shuckin' and jivin'" was not then likely to roll readily off the tongue of someone raised in New York. Now, maybe this post will get alerted on as well.

I'm flattered that people pay such close attention to my posts!

[villager]

2. It's an old 60's playbook on how to divide the Left/Progressives....

It's one of the reasons it's so easy for the right to stay in power, when it's so pathetically easy to get the left to turn on itself...

[global1]

5. So This Organized Attack Is Coming From The Right?.....nt

[jeff47]

12. There are many places it could be coming from.

There are people in both parties who do not want Sanders elected. Any of them could be doing it. And others who didn't start this particular fight could be grabbing on to it.

We won't know who is actually behind it for a very long time.

[villager]

19. Plus that can change the more "successful" each of the respective movements is

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

To be clear: BLM has profoundly overdue grievances. And this action might have been their best current idea to shake up presumably complacent (albeit sympathetic) "white liberals," etc. (Though one hopes they have some GOP-shaking planned as well...)

But we do know this as well: If they're not infiltrated yet (and the probably are) they certainly will be. As will the Sanders campaign. (I've gone through this personally with environmental work in the 80's).

So: If suggestions are increasingly made that increasingly fracture any kind of "progressive movement" (regardless of the issue, we've seen this pattern before), and that movement, or movements, wind up negating themselves, "falling out," and becoming ineffective, well, whose interests does that ultimately serve?

We just need to be aware that the array of powerful interests, against BLM, against the Sanders campaign, against any kind of deep, meaningful structural change, are obviously not giving up a damn thing without a fight.

And they never fight fair.

[TM99]

28. Yes, I remember the infiltrators during

the 1980's in both the environment protest movement and the anti-nuclear weapons proliferation.

I fully support BLM. I fully support their demands and their need for protest.

I do not support a certain candidate, her surrogates, and her supporters who are going to use this to attack one of the strongest true progressive candidates that we have on both economic and social justice.

[marym625]

64. I saw an interview with the women from BLM that were protesting

At NN. Though I liked most of what they said, one thing that really kinda bothered me was they did not have an answer to, "what would have been a response from the candidates that would have been acceptable"? They did not have an answer. They had some sketchy ideas (sketchy in that they weren't fully formed) and had answers about how the candidates should have reacted, in their minds.

What bothered me about that was two fold. One, how can you demand something when you don't know what you are demanding? And how do you expect someone to react when they're taken completely off guard? No matter who or what it is about.

I have seen the manifesto and demands from the Ferguson group. It's much more detailed. It is much more specific. I thought the groups were working with each other but now I think I was wrong.

As I have said, this was a seriously missed opportunity. For both the candidates and BLM. I think NN is more to blame than anyone. They sure did not facilitate it well.

I promised I would not comment on this anymore because I believe it's derailing Sanders' message and campaign, and because it is taking away from the message of BLM. So this (hopefully) will be my last comment on this.

[merrily]

86. BOOM.

[merrily]

85. 1460s? Dividing people by race has a long, long history.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Looks that way. Time will undoubtedly tell. (No, you're not naive.)

But be careful... they're taking names now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6990793

[HooptieWagon]

4. Yes. Yes. Who stands to gain by driving a wedge between minorities and progressives?

[merrily]

32. Who stands to gain by disrupting speeches by O'Malley and Sanders?

[HooptieWagon]

35. Exactly.

BLM had plenty of opportunities to promote their cause, including having been on a panel discussion earlier that morning. The panel included Rep Hank Johnson, a member of the House Judiciary Committee.
The disruption was all about self-aggrandizement.

[merrily]

84. Don't kill me. I will cannot fault BLM and don't want to.

If I had to worry about a buying a casket for 12 year old in because he waved a toy gun at a cop, I don't know what I'd do. Or even worry about worrying about buying a casket.

I keep wanting to type I'd kill someone, but I'm non-violent, so I hope to heaven I would have the strength to control myself. But demonstrate non-violently? They'd have to jail me to make me stop.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

6. I think that's a yes and no thing.

Yes, there's been some of that on DU.

But it's aided by the fact that Bernie is so laser focused on the economic half of the racial and economic dualism that he simply isn't connecting with racial issues that he needs to address as well.

And BLM was NOT an 'attack' on Bernie. It was a wake-up call to all candidates that they need to work for the votes they want.

Being President isn't easy. You've got to step up your game and 'walk and chew gum' at the same time. If Bernie's going to win, he needs to step up his game on connecting with black and latino voters and their needs. He's talking, but he's not connecting well. To do that, he's going to need to listen, and to work with black and latino leaders to develop policies that address their stated needs, as well as the needs he sees from his perspective.

[Autumn]

8. I agree about BLM, but if I were a black activist I would be going after the

current President and elected Democrats that are in office at this time that have the power to address these needs also. These killings by the police need to stop now. I have maintained for a couple of years now that any Democrat who wants my vote had damn well better work for it or I'm not voting for them and I'm glad to see people have finally said enough, my vote is my voice.

[merrily]

33. A list of needs that is within the power of the federal government would be a good thing.

Last edited Wed Jul 22, 2015, 04:29 AM - Edit history (1)

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

38. That would be a good thing for BLM to work on with him, then. nt

[merrily]

41. Or with Obama and with all candidates.

[HooptieWagon]

37. No. Bernie has addressed the issue often....

Including speeches the previous day, and later that evening. The protesters were just wanting their faces on camera. The protest was planned in advance, there is nothing Sanders and O'Malley could have said...the protesters had previously decided to tune them out and shout them down.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

39. If that's the case, and it was about the protestors, and not Bernie or O'Malley,

then how can that be 'an attack on Bernie'?

It wasn't ABOUT him. It was about their issue, and if you're right, camera time.

[HooptieWagon]

42. They presented their issue at a scheduled panel discussion that very morning.

They weren't being ignored by the event.
Also included in the panel discussion was Rep Hank Johnson, a member of the House Judiciary Committee...iOW, somebody in position to DO something. they didn't disrupt THAT event.

Also, since the event was held in Phoenix, the Presidential Candidate Town Hall was advertised as being particularly attentive to immigration. That's why the moderator, an illegal immigrant journalist, was particularly selected. The candidates showed up expecting to speak primarily on immigration, the crowd showed up expecting to hear the candidates address immigration. BLMs actions were also a big F-U to the Latino community.

[jwirr]

95. I see it more as camera time to keep their issue in the public eye. That is really the goal of all

protest movements. Education.

IMO they got what they set out to do. Unfortunately it is getting sidetracked as an attack on Bernie because others who had nothing to do with the protest are finding ways to make it about Bernie.

President Obama just talked about some of the issue and that is good. Now he also needs to come up with ways that the federal government can actually help. Things like ending voter suppression, mass incarceration, militarization of the police force, etc.

But there is something that BLM can do also at the community level. When the protests were happening in Ferguson MO they had started it - get people registered to vote and GOTV. That is the best way to address the anti-black administration in that city and all cities around the country. Kick the racists out of power. I hope this action is happening all over the country.

As to the state level - I am not real sure what can be done at that end. I imagine that there are state laws that have to change also, such as voters rights laws, but I am not sure what is need.

[arcane1]

7. It's not just you n/t

[CoffeeCat]

9. No, you're not being naive…you're spot on.

Sanders threatens the corporate, elitist apparatus of BOTH political parties. The vast majority of our politicians are in bed with the corporations. The corruption is mind blowing and very entrenched.

Sanders is a threat to all of this. He is truly for "We The People."

He's anti-war--so the mega-corporationst that manufacture planes, tanks, and other war weaponry--and also hire contractors--are threatened. Also a thorn to the powerful neocons who want war at all costs.
He's for raising the minimum wage--which threatens the precious profits of nearly all corporations.
He's for controlling Wall Street--which threatens the banks and their current record-breaking profits.
He's against fracking and for energy alternatives--which threatens the Big Energy.
…and on and on.

There are corrupt Dems and Reps on both sides who stand to lose BIG TIME if Sanders continues to gain traction.

This leaves the vast majority of the political power structure against him--big time.

And of course, on the Dem side, we've got Hillary--who of course is going to attack him.

He's got it coming at him from all fronts. You bet this confluence of enemies will cook up all kinds of theatrics and false-flags to take him down. I wouldn't be surprised if they plant protesters in his audiences, organize "fake" Sanders opposition and outright lie about him.

It's going to get very ugly.

The reality is--most people can spot bullshit. Most people are done with our corporate-owned politicians who have sold their souls to Goldman Sachs, oil and fracking companies and other corporate interests that never pay taxes and refuse to pay their employees a living wage. We're just done and we're onto their game. So, when they attempt bullshit, dirty campaign tactics--they look even more dastardly, corrupt and sooo-yesterday.

I predict this nonsense will only embolden Sanders supporters. These corporate shills may craft messaging that creates some dents and dings. They're going to be ruthless and they're going to pound in messages like, "Sanders is unelectable", "Sanders is a Socialist", "Sanders isn't really a Democrat." This won't work on Sanders supporters, who get it. The question is--will Independents and more centrist Democrats buy into it? That remains to be seen.

But no--you're not naive. You're calling out what is clearly happening.

[dirtydickcheney]

13. This needs to be its own post... /NT

[appal_jack]

14. Excellent analysis, CoffeeCat. k&r, nt

[GoneFishin]

15. Good post. Thanks.

[Enthusiast]

22. It would be foolish to believe otherwise.

"all kinds of theatrics and false-flags"

They will do anything and everything to denigrate and destroy Bernie and if that doesn't work I fear they will resort to violence.

The opposition is used to getting their own way, after all, they paid good money for it.

[peacebird]

58. This should be an OP. Another point, M$M has virtual silence re Bernie. No coverage on major news

Websites about Phoenix or Texas rallies. CNN, CBS, NBC. So obvious there is a new hashtag trending #BernieBlackout

Major media is owned by a few megaCorps that find Bernie to be a threat to their agenda. They want a Clinton V Bush election, and care not which of those two wins.

[CoffeeCat]

107. I find this fascinating too...

You bring up a good point. It is so obvious that the media is ignoring Sanders. Painfully obvious.

I know it does hurt him somewhat. More publicity would surely help him.

However, it's not really doing any damage. He's still gaining steam and his polls are decent. Hillary's poll's and favorables are tanking. And she gets all the free coverage she wants from the MSM. I guess we have to ask ourselves if the MSM isn't nearly irrelevant, when it comes to elections, at this point?

I think it's fascinating--but most people have turned away from the MSM and they get their news and information from online sources, alternative sources or from information disseminated via Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. I used to be a CNN/CNBC junkie. I had news on 24/7 and I NEVER missed the Sunday talk shows. It was ritual for me. Last week, we watched the Sunday talk shows for the first time in a year. It was like watching a corporate-run joke. I couldn't barely watch the scripted, talking-point-spewing talking heads.

A great deal has changed. We're sort of going around the MSM for news and information about Presidential candidates. I think a total blackout of Bernie would have *some* effect, but maybe not enough to really make a dent. I guess that remains to be seen. It's all very fascinating though, and I love it that people have seen through the corporate baloney of the MSM and have circumvented it. Especially millennials!

[peacebird]

109. It will make it interesting, if millenials come out and vote the power of M$M could be diminished

It will become more obvious that new media has become athe anews asource for a large swath of the population

[MissDeeds]

72. Spot on

[zeemike]

75. And it is not like the first time it was done.

We have a history of infiltration of movements going back to the civil rights movement to OWS.
And that is not a CT that is a fact that anyone who knows anything about it will tell you.
The PTB that do it are still in power and have every reason to pull it on Sanders because as you state he is a threat to their power.

But they have also developed the perfect foil...the CT...and unless you can catch them in the act with facts you can and will be dismissed as one of those nut cases. And even if you do they will simply ignore it.

[merrily]

87. Longer than that, zeemike.

There are things that happen in nations that shake the whole world.

Imagine being a monarch anywhere in the world when the US declared independence.

Now, imagine being anyone in the ruling class or anyone rich anywhere in the world when the Russian military joined the Russian peasants after World War I, slaughtered the ruling family and declared communism in Russia.

Communist Party meetings in the US had been rising up even before then, I think--could be wrong on that--but certainly after the Revolution. Communists were preaching rewarding labor, fairness and racial equality. The meetings attracted union members and other laborers, as well as 'limousine liberals." I bet someone was infiltrating them, even then.

By World War II, Hoover was on the job, as well as a lot of official spies. They spied on our military, right along with the enemy. Maybe even the USO as well, though that's just a guess. That gave Hoover a lot of names of Americans, which he handed over to Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn. And then, pressure was put on those people to name others.

[zeemike]

92. Yes for sure Hover did not invent infiltration and disruption.

Power has always had that tool at their disposal.
And yes I would guess those were fearful times for the rich and powerful when people take the power back to themselves.

But I think the powerful of today is not yet as fearful because in money they trust...and they are sure they can crush Berni or anyone like him that stands up...great wealth makes great arrogance. And they have their "let them eat cake" moment.

And they are even more confident now in the machine that works for them to keep people in their place...but there are cracks starting to form (like Edward Snowden) that give us hope.
Their error is they think everyone is motivated by the same thing they are, money, and they are wrong on that.
There still are people motivated by principles..and I believe Sanders is one of them.

[blm]

10. I don't think the attack is on Bernie as much as his overall supporters who 'BLM' may see as

more committed to liberal policies from white perspective….. more so than theirs.

Factioning has occurred in every Dem primary, and, it usually isn't particularly based in fair interpretations.

This is message politics via disruption. Been going on……a LONG time. Remember all the anti-war protestors who kept attacking the most anti-war Dem nominee in history?

[merrily]

34. I think part of DU obsesses over Bernie's DU supporters

Do you have any evidence that BLM, like DU, is more focused on Bernie's supporters than on Bernie?

[blm]

43. Listen to them. Even those of us here who support Sanders

for his Common Sense platform are treated with disdain by some of his supporters here who don't think that is good enough for their standards.

Same with some HRC supporters who turn a blind eye to common sense observations. What's a Common Sense Democrat supposed to sound like during primary season? Apparently, we're supposed to keep quiet and let the 'approved' voices speak in our name, too.

Sorry…I am Common Sense Voter for Common Sense Sanders, so I am immune to unnecessary drama.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/9005855/black-twitter-bernie-sanders

[merrily]

46. If you have a problem with something I've posted, point me to the post(s) of mine to which you

object.

[blm]

61. I responded appropriately to your post and did so without

personalizing my remarks. The comment was not specific to you.

[merrily]

69. Your response was totally appropriate to the question I asked and, no, you

did not personalize it. I did.

You told me to listen to a barrage of general insults about Bernie supporters, saying we're all obtuse racists, just too polite to use the n word. I would like to understand the complaint and know what I am supposed to do about it. However, until now, the only supporter of Sanders I control is me--and I am not even in perfect control of me, but that is beside the point. I don't understand what it is that makes me a polite racist. So I asked for specifics about me.

[blm]

93. That was never said. And I don't 'do' personal.

Well….I do when the poster is seen as a bad actor.

[jeff47]

11. It's basic ratfucking.

Attack an opponent's strength. Especially through surrogates and anonymous attacks.

Where is it coming from? Anyone who doesn't want Sanders to win. Which is a rather large group of people in both parties.

[GoneFishin]

16. "... Where is it coming from? Anyone who doesn't want Sanders to win. ...". Exactly. There are too

many possibilities to be sure this soon. More information will leak out eventually to help us figure it out over time.

[merrily]

47. It makes no practical sense for the right to waste ammo on Sanders unless and until he

becomes the front runner. Right now, whatever is coming at Hillary is from the right.

What is going on now as to Bernie, though, is from the left. JMO. Obviously, I have no inside info. Just seems like common sense.

[jeff47]

49. Sure it does. He's the one with excitement.

That excitement is dangerous, even if he does not win the nomination.

[merrily]

50. True, They don't want his ideas.

[jwirr]

96. The left and the corporations and bankers who do not like his message.

[merrily]

97. Yep. And "the billionaires"

Bet all of them are shell shocked.

They're probably adding panic rooms to their homes and offices as we type.

[truebrit71]

17. Nope. It's not just you.

You are not being naive in the slightest.

[ruffburr]

18. Whew, I thought I was getting paranoid-

Reading some posts here and there I started seeing a pattern of disinformation and slander coming up with regards to Bernie, It made me wonder if this was coordinated by politicians on either side or what exactly, It seems I'm not alone, Thanks folks.

[swilton]

20. It's bothered me for some time now that Sanders is being attacked from the left

as if there is a fifth column within the Green Party.

Counter Punch articles -

Chris Hedges, Bruce Gagnon - some of the left is made at Sanders, not because they disagree with him on issues, but because he chose to run not as an Independent or Green, but because he's running in the Democratic Party Primary.

http://www.examiner.com/article/gagnon-s-bullshit-meter-is-counter-revolutionary-propaganda

Sanders is smart enough to know that he would get even less visibility than he's getting now if he ran as an independent or a Green....The only way he'll get noticed and funding is if he runs within the Democratic Party - a direct challenge to the establishment. Furthermore, if elected, he needs what few progressives/alliances he has or can glean from within the system to implement his agenda. The Greens/Independents and Hedges are upset by this approach - foolishly now opposing Sanders based upon the argument that the DNC will never let him get his foot in the door and/or the other argument that Sanders isn't ideologically pure enough. Sanders is already being attacked by the Green Party (who doesn't have its own primary) as 'being the lesser of two evils'.

Such a circular firing squad approach is foolish because it ignores the 50 state strategy (broad grass-roots appeal) that Sanders is successfully implementing (fund-raising from small groups, rally turn-outs exceeding any other political candidates, even in red states) with greater achievements than any Green or Independent could think about having. It also ignores how such parties would benefit if Sanders does win and overturns Citizens United and implements publicly funded elections.

[merrily]

36. Great find, swilton. You might want to make article an OP.

The Green Party needs to focus on party-building.

[swilton]

48. Thanks merrily!

I posted this discussion about 2 week ago when the Gagnon hit piece came out and Chris Hedges had his interview on TRNN.....But as they used to say in Hill Street Blues - "Hey! Let's be careful out there!" Karl Rove made these hit job shenanigans into a fine science.

And as for the Green Party and it's focus - you're so right...It's insane for them to go into the big leagues and start playing in primary politics. A Sanders victory would help third parties by mitigating the effects of finances in politics....Furthermore, Sanders has always seemed receptive to new ideas from all areas across the political spectrum...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128022782

[merrily]

52. Sorry I missed it first time around.

From the Green Party's standpoint, it made some sense to run Nader for President. He had name recognition and a reputation for integrity with the left. They did not expect to win that election, but it kind of put them on the map. They were not going to get that kind of publicity running for town council. Running someone no one heard of for President is just an exercise in vanity. And the shadow cabinet for me was a huge turn off.

[KoKo]

66. Paul Street at CounterPunch, also....

I've liked many of Street's articles on Populist Progressive Movement but, he is such a purist he goes off the rails sometimes. He just wrote an article in "CP" pretty much stating that Sanders should have run as a Socialist and therefore he doesn't have respect for him for not doing so. Street often comes off as a "Purist" in doctrine but, particularly in this case, I was surprised, at his attack on Sanders.

[merrily]

88. Early on, someone describing himself or herself as a Vermont Socialist posted to warn that Bernie is

not socialist enough. I was not entirely sure if the poster was sincere or not.

Just imagine if he or she was sincere though: one Vermont Socialist opposing another Vermont Socialist. LOL! That poster sure better run for office because no other candidate will satisfy him or her.

[swilton]

98. Just looking at how Sanders is marginalized now

for challenging the establishment while running in the Democratic Primary and, at the same time drawing the crowds he's drawing.

Although Sanders' campaign draws upon many-most of the issues of the Greens and Socialists, he would get zero-negative visibility if her were to run within those parties. Sanders knows/knew this - building up a revolutionary campaign takes more than money, it takes time to cultivate name recognition and to develop/channel a following. Sanders has more of a strategic sense than any of these ideological purists and he has to do this his way. Also, I'm certain within the ranks of the 'ideologically pure' there is not uniformity in philosophy...it just happens...

Sanders' strategy also recognized the movement within the Democratic Party - Progressive Democrats.

There are always going to be gripers....

As I've mentioned before I think some of the disagreements are not related to philosophy but to egos...others have agreed with that...for example there is this quote from facebook

As a former Green Party activist in the mid-90's I've seen this circular firing squad behavior first hand & it was ugly enough for me to quit the party & never look back. I can go off on this topic because it was personal. Without getting into a rant, I want to say that I detect deep psychological ego issues in these hardliners who refuse to play nice with obvious natural allies... "Fevered egos", to quote Bill Hicks the comedian, is the term that comes to mind. I was tempted to start a chapter of the A. A., Activist Anonymous, after my experience with the Greens. There's something about an addiction to anger & righteousness, paranoia & persecution, mistrust & disdain... Am I ranting yet? My point is that calm deliberation & reasonableness are not part of the equation here. Even though these are people we might agree with on 90% or even all of the issues, my advice is to back away slowly... They are toxic & need help (drugs? counseling? meditation & yoga? maybe just hugs smile emoticon )

For as much as the ideologically pure like to boast about the democracy within their groups, I agree with the above that there are ego and centralized power issues involved and the hierarchical structure is very rigid. Even before Chris Hedges dissed Sanders for not going independent, I thought he had some 'either my way or the high way' issues.

For those not at the top of the ideological structures, I have found many don't even know or understand where Sanders stands on the issues. They just prefer to spout the party line that 'the DNC won't let him win' or as Chris Hedges claims (without evidence) that Sanders has made a deal with the DNC.

Saddly, they are shooting themselves in the foot ..to support Sanders in the primary would cost the Green Party nothing in votes...And besides being a win for their issues, a win for Sanders would be a long-term win for their candidates and party - through publicly funded elections. And I can only imagine how the parties themselves have lost credibility with the rank and file. This 13 July story is about a schism occurring within the Maine Green-Independent Party, a party listing about 40,000 members.

http://tides.bangordailynews.com/2015/07/13/home/conflict-erupts-in-green-party-after-censorship-of-sanders-supporters/

[KoKo]

99. What about a New Dem Movement?

Thanks....interesting read,nd, for your insight..which I agree with about problems with being purists plus the article from the BangorDailyNews Report about the schism in the Maine Green Party.

There's always the worry that when Dems were losing elections the strategy was to form the Democratic Leadership Conference. And from then it morphed to "Third Way/Republican Light." It did little good for Democratic Principles from the New Deal Era.

At this point in time Dems need a new strategy once again. If Greens and Social Dems could be brought in for Sanders--then maybe we could move to "Dem/Left/Progressive Populist" and cast off the DLC/Third Way. If Bernie loses we might still end up with a stronger coalition that could have long lasting influence if he can at least gain a following to make it to the Primary with high numbers and nomination or not....it would still coalesce us into a "Movement" with more power than we've had before with the DLC Triangulation and lack of interest in Grass Roots policy and the big tilt towards Wall Street & Big Banking interests taking precedence over "The Commons." If the TPP is eventually passed we will need all the collective strength we can get to fight back in any way we can over the effects on jobs, wages, food & water safety and environment.

This might be that time when we are compelled to make these changes. I think Bernie is the best candidate we could have at this time to represent a Progressive Left.

[swilton]

100. Agree with everything you just said

(and btw I love this kind of conversation)

I have friends from Va. who think that the Obama presidency is the greatest thing since sliced bread as in 'I'm Obama's biggest fan'....According to this line of argument, the banks had to be bailed out and the Democratic Party had to adopt the Republican strategy because that was the only way that the Democrats could win. These people are supporting Jim Webb???

But in my line of thinking - what have the Democrats won by adopting the Republican model of Wall Street bankrolling elections? And as far as elections go - just looked up this when I commented on a f/b post about (surprise, surprise :wink that Va. Governor Terry McAuliffe is supporting/just endorsed Hillary Clinton. Well McAuliffe (carpet bagger in Va. for a reason :wink headed the DNC from 2001-5 and that's precisely in my view the direct result/the peak of the DLC power...But surprisingly DESPITE the 'reign' of W. Bush the Democrats started losing elections in the 'off' election years....2002 - 2004..I look at the top to the DNC for these failures (i.e., McAuliffe and the DLC candidates/strategy)....Now true there was a big turn-over during the 2008 election but I think this was not FOR the corporate democrats as much as it was the hope in Obama's promises and the DESPERATION to get rid of Bush-Cheney. Also, at that time the DNC was headed by Howard Dean.

But I think your paragraph about rebuilding the Democratic Party is valid and I think that is happening...I also think Sanders has attracted some Republicans (see Nader's new book UNSTOPPABLE) -ergo his going to the typically 'red' states. This is how Sanders has to win. BTW - I posted a link today about a f/b post - one of the Bernie Sanders sites that is soliciting progressive candidates - the goal of the entire project is to craft a list of progressives running for House, Senate, et. al. The goal is to make an online spreadsheet with all the progressive candidates listed and directed to Sanders supporters. The citizenry must remain engaged after/if Sanders is elected.

On remaining engaged, I think Sanders wants to hear voices and although Sanders is as close to perfect as a Progressive Left candidate can get, there are issues (in my view) where Sanders is not perfect....

But having agreed that the goal is to repopulate the Democratic Party, I also think there is value in parties beyond the two-party system....Sanders seems to suggest this (to me anyway) about opening up the primary debates...also, about publicly funded elections..(was he talking about just two parties?) I don't have an answer. The political spectrum is rich with ideas and limiting solutions to these gravest of problems will fall short and be less democratic if only the two parties are drawn upon to come up with solutions.

[TBF]

21. He's attacking the establishment -

and they are fighting back. And I think we all understand which candidates are the establishment - on both sides of the aisle.

[SoapBox]

23. I was fuming mad at two MSNBC shows this afternoon...

Chris Hedges had on an "activist"...it seemed to be just dumping on Bernie. Did she jump on any other person, in America? No...turned that off.

Turn it back on to Rachel's show (she was gone)...Karen Tumlty, all about Bernie's void/he doesn't get it BUT...HRC does get it...OH HOW SHE GETS IT! Turned that crap off as well.

[Enthusiast]

26. On your word.....

We had yesterday evening's Rachel on our DVR, I won't even watch it, it has been erased. We generally watch Rachel in the AM.

MSNBC has Michael Steele on almost every day and they hang on his every word as if he has great importance.

MSNBC sucks, they suck to the core.

[Babel_17]

24. Politics can be shameless, this is known (nt)

[nenagh]

25. Bernie Sanders: "and like everybody in this room, I want to see an America where young black men can walk down the street,

they will not be harassed by police officers, they will not be killed, they will not be shot."

Bernie Sanders received a standing ovation at the Iowa Democratic Party Dinner (approx 17:19 in the speech) ...Fri, July 17th.

Do people (his detractors) actually know that Bernie made that statement just days before NN?

[Enthusiast]

27. They sure as hell won't hear of it on "Liberal" MSNBC or NPR.

[HooptieWagon]

40. Not days before, THE day before.

And then that evening before a diverse crowd of 12,000....for which he got a standing ovation.
Yes, he's being swift-boated. Notice the Twitter-bomb that appeared immediately, as if on cue?

[nenagh]

62. Thanks HooptieWagon...for the clarifications...

12,000 supporters and a standing ovation... I'll be smiling all day, remembering...

[blm]

44. It held no interest for corporate media.

If they don't cover it, then most people did not hear it.

This has been happening to Dem candidates for the last 2 decades.

[merrily]

45. If some did know--and I am sure at least some do--would it make a whit of difference?

[nenagh]

57. Good point merrily, no it would not have made a whit of difference to what happened...

but for this important group, the Bernie Sanders group, I just wanted to have his statement in the record, so to speak..

Because that is not the impression that has been given, that's for sure..

[merrily]

59. I don't get the impression that facts have much impact.

[merrily]

74. I am glad you posted it and did not mean to imply otherwise.

My post was in specific response to the question at the end of your post:

Do people (his detractors) actually know that Bernie made that statement just days before NN?

First, I should have said something positive, then answered the question. My bad. I have that tendency and I need to work on it.

[nenagh]

83. Not at all merrily...I didn't at all take your comment negatively at all...

But this gives me a great opportunity to thank you for your excellent comments...which are greatly appreciated ..I'm just north of the St. Lawrence River & may sound a little different..is all.

[merrily]

89. Wow! Thank you for the compliment.

I was born in Jersey, lived in NYC and now live in Boston. We sound "different" to most people, LOL.

But I do have to work on that. It's caught me up more than once.

[Autumn]

29. No it's not just you.

[mmonk]

30. Definitely. Both right and left have co-ordination in this one.

We have to be taken out because we are challenging the system.

[HFRN]

51. sure feels like it - if you've ever seen trial lawyers in action

real ones, in real life, not on tv, they can take absolutely nothing, and make an entire theme out of it

but it take a professional to do it, amateurs cant pull it off (not saying this is necessarily trial lawyers doing this, or that they're the only ones who can do it, I'm saying I've seen them do it, kind of amazing to watch)

throw the same untruth enough times, and observers will begin to believe it's at least partly true, even if there's no truth to it at all

this doesn't feel 'spontaneous' at all

[KoKo]

67. Watching both videos of BLM Activists confronting both O'Malley and Sanders...

and the host, Vargas, who seemed completely out of it he couldn't even find a mike! Why were they not prepared with a standing mike to take questions since it was a Candidate Forum. And the rest of it where one of the Activists is leading chants with her back to the host and O'Malley in the first segment.

Yet there's been so much misinformation about it posted here on DU by many posters when the videos are available from madfloridian and others to watch it for oneself. Even when corrected they refuse to respond.

[Phlem]

53. Of course.

It's just getting started and it will come in as many flavors as it needs to till the job is done. Bernie will run a clean campaign but that will never be noticed.

He will overcome!

[merrily]

90. The pros WILL notice and will find a way to use it against him. They probably already have.

Like no faces of color within camera range. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=28382

One time, I posted somewhere else that all candidates arranged for cheering and applause in advance of a speech and some poster angrily called me a liar and said Bernie Sanders would never do anything like that. In my mind, I rolled my eyes and thought, "Jaysus. You're calling me a liar over someone who has never run for President and never will?

I don't know if his handlers will get him to do stuff like that or not. He sure didn't do it when he announced, and look what happened. Whether that was a naturally occurring objection or not, I'm betting other campaigns and their respective supporters jumped in and fanned the flames, even if they knew that Vermont is about 96% white.

[Larkspur]

54. BLM NN15 protesters are hypocrites

The recent police brutality cases happened when an AA is our current President and an AA has been our last 2 Attorney Generals.
Why aren't they shouting at Obama, Holder and Lynn? They have/had power to make changes since 2009, but seems they dropped the ball.

I guess only white Democratic politicians deserve BLM tantrums. When are they going to hold Obama, Holder and Lynn accountable for not doing anything to stop police brutality?

[SoapBox]

56. + a million

[HooptieWagon]

65. Good question. That's where their anger should be direc

[SoapBox]

55. More frustration.

It sure seems that Bernie can do no right.

1. A caller to a show that went on and on about (nutshell) his pro gun stance. She didn't like a state's-rights approach because Vermont was different from Chicago...seems all the gun ills are now his fault.

2. He will appear at the Iowa Wing Ding event in August. It's a Democratic event...and 4 of the candidates will be there and speak. You have to buy tickets to the event. SO...the wild eyed comments on FB are now that Bernie is charging people just to hear him speak and that it's an outrage!!!!

Sigh...how in 5 days or so, did what feels like the world, decide that everything, everywhere...is Bernie's fault.

[merrily]

91. I bet other campaigns will buy up a lot of the tickets.

[historylovr]

60. No, you aren't being naive.

The question is, what can we do about it?

[Zorra]

63. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128027557#post41

[KoKo]

68. ...!

[L0oniX]

70. There's a reason Hillary was not at Netroots.

[KoKo]

106. ...!

[arcane1]

76. We saw it coming! He's a threat to the Status Quo, and they are coming after him.

That's how we know we're winning

[DBoon]

77. Sounds like a sectarian leftist type of attack

Who is ultimately behind those groups is an open question. My guess is it is someone who has a vested interest in disrupting progressive candidates and making the democratic left look ridiculous.

[RandySF]

78. It's you.

[virtualobserver]

81. your appearance proves the opposite.....

with your brutal, yet concise two word attack

[still_one]

79. If partisan politics is a concerted effort, yes to that degree, and vice versa. The unfortunate

events at the Town Hall where the candidates were not afforded an opportunity to have a dialog, in spite of the event being billed as a town hall is what seems to have started what you are alluding to the piling on.

I think there are two aspects to it though. One is partisan politics, and one is that some believe that ALL the Democratic candidates are not receptive enough to racial issues. The reason that Bernie and O'Malley are singled out is because they were at the Town Hall, and because of that they are being used unfairly in a strawman argument.

[cantbeserious]

80. You May Be Right

eom

[PatrickforO]

82. You bet there is.

Oh yeah. It's actually an official program that was once called COINTELPRO. Look it up.

I'd be willing to bet some of the people starting this racism thing are under the pay of dirtbags like the Koch brothers. Or are government agents who have been bought and paid for by dirtbags like the Koch brothers.

This is the old tried and true divide and conquer strategy which, every time the left starts getting organized, is used by big money to turn us on each other so we won't notice the corporate hands picking our pockets.

[ibegurpard]

94. the ones trying to use this for political advantage

Are already starting to overplay their hand. Let them.

[PoliticAverse]

101. "I don't know if he likes Immigrants"...

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/i_dont_know_if_he_likes_immigrants_the_budding_smear_campaign_against_bernie_sanders/

[Half-Century Man]

103. About 80%/20% thing.

In just the three years(approx) I have been posting here hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people have died due to their involvement with police. The vast majority of them have been none white, mostly African Americans. We are not exactly sure how many because we do not count the deaths.
Improvements in technology have made many of these deaths very public. Video has receptively contradicted official police testimony. Social media has brought far distant people together like never before, The shooting, just or not, are happening in the new American neighborhood; the one without city limits, the internet. Every one is a local problem now.
The way African Americans are treated by the "peacekeepers" is just the most instantly potentially deadly facet of the solidified jewel of shit that is institutionalized racism.
This has to dealt with. We have to destroy it ourselves.

Do not treat BLM as republican politicians treat climate change.
That is at least 80% of the story.

A smaller part is the effort by some to make political headway out of BLM's encounters with political opponents. In the title of my post, I guessed that to be 20% of the greater whole. I like to think I overestimated that percentage.

[ymetca]

104. It's not really about Bernie...

It's about distracting the hoi polloi with "squirrel!"

I am sure it won't be long before we see a Bernie Sanders look-a-like on TV selling a Ford F-150.

The Noosphere is all-self-devouring. All hail the Noosphere!

(Brought to you by Monsanto, makers of UBIK, the all-purpose byproduct that cleans/is delicious on just about everything! Grows uncontrollably, while engulfing universally. Buy yours today!)

[Babel_17]

105. As concerted as they can manage ;)

All things considered, it borders on self parody.

[Zorra]

108. There definitely is. See below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128029322