Who decided Hillary is best for the black community?

[Playinghardball]

[cantbeserious]

1. Great Question - I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[roguevalley]

2. wall street? :D

[ToxMarz]

3. I wasn't aware anyone did.

I think that decision will be made individually among all "communities".

[cheapdate]

9. My thoughts exactly.

[merrily]

27. Someone sure had decided it. Whether voters will kneel to that decision is another question.

[Betty Karlson]

79. Same with LGBT, same with hispanics. eom

[merrily]

89. It has to be party line. See my sig line.

[merrily]

90. The party line is the party line, true or not.

Hard to believe a claim that someone who spoke out against equal marriage for so long trumps Sanders on that score.

Check my sig line.

[uponit7771]

85. This is false

[Spitfire of ATJ]

4. Well, ya know, Bill was the first black president.

[artislife]

74. On of the few times they listen to a woman of color

and run with it.

[carolinayellowdog]

5. 1%ers, who also have decided Hillary is best for America

Trickle down economics is far from dead, but it's rather more startling when the "social vs. economic justice" arguments come from wealthy African Americans. Quoting from a Grio article I found when Googling the question, "what percentage of the wealthiest 1% are black?"--

Blacks comprise 13.6 percent of the U.S. population according to the 2010 Census, but account for only 1.4 percent of the top 1 percent of households by income.

[MrScorpio]

6. Just to make something clear, these aren't Bernie supporters, they're 3rd party indies

http://www.independentvoting.org/documents/EditorsNote.pdf

If Bernie were the presumed front-running Dem instead of Hillary, his name might be on that t-shirt instead.

[LiberalElite]

11. That's ok - but the question remains eom

[jtuck004]

22. Right. Then again, Bernie isn't running to be on t-shirts, so it's probably a moot point.

I liked this from the Editor's Note:

"There is probably no more edgy American political/cultural
performance than wearing a tee shirt"

That was probably true until Ms. Newsome took the flag down in South Carolina.

That was a great performance, a teaching one, and it raised the bar a bit, regardless of what one is wearing.

[merrily]

26. In a way, "third Party indies" is a contradiction in terms.

Iif you are truly third party, you are likely to be registered as such, meaning registered Green or registered Working Families Party, etc.,

In another way, though, I don't know how many "indies" are actually indie. In Massachusetts, for a long time, the largest segment of registered voters has been registered "unenrolled," which is our equivalent of independent. Yet, Massachusetts has gone for only two Republican Presidents since 1928, namely, World War II hero Eisenhower, not very long after World War II ended, and St. Ronnie, after the oil shortgages, etc. of the Carter-Mondale Administration.

So, in Massachusetts, it's fairly clear that a ;ot of those who do register "unenrolled" are actually Democrats who, for one reason or another, choose to register unenrolled.

Also, I disagree with your implication that Democrats, white or of color, back only the perceived frontrunner in a primary. With Hillary, especially, a number of Democrats on this very board, back O'Malley or Sanders, and Hillary has given them good reason for that.

[MrScorpio]

30. I never implied that Dems only back the perceived frontrunners...

Last edited Sun Jul 12, 2015, 05:25 AM - Edit history (1)

I only warned that the message on that shirt wasn't necessarily indicative of people who are voting for Democrats. As indies, even if Bernie became our nominee, I wouldn't expect these same people to be joining with us.

The "enemy of our enemy" is not always your friend. It's best to check motivation, such as the actual website of the people who produced the shirt: http://www.independentvoting.org

[merrily]

34. No, that is not what your Reply 6 said.

Your Reply 6 said very clearly:

Just to make something clear, these aren't Bernie supporters, they're 3rd party indies

http://www.independentvoting.org/documents/EditorsNote.pdf

If Bernie were the presumed front-running Dem instead of Hillary, his name might be on that t-shirt instead.

BTW, the motives of the people who produce a shirt are not necessarily shared by, or even known to, the people who wear the shirt and the OP shows only a wearer of the shirt. Besides, the motives of the people who produced the shirt or wear the shirt are not the point of the OP or of my reply to you.

[MrScorpio]

42. That shirt was produced by NEO Independents, not Democrats...

Check that PDF.

These people aren't Bernie supporters, they're merely anti-Hillary. The point I made was that these people could easily pivot over to being anti-Bernie were he to become the Democratic nominee.

That shirt is simply a hit-job on the presumed top Democrat.

[merrily]

43. I've replied to that comment of yours twice now. I don't see that simply repeating it has a point.

[MrScorpio]

44. I'm simply questioning the source of that shirt, a non-Dem third party

What's remarkable about the literature from these people is that they haven't even take any effort whatsoever to gauge Bernie's appeal to the Black community instead. The only thing they're interested in is undercutting another Democrat's appeal to our community.

Frankly, I think it's perfectly reasonable to question the promotion of any 3rd party that's campaigning against Democrats on a Democratic website.

[merrily]

45. ....

[Autumn]

68. Maybe the woman in the photo just agrees with what the shirt says.

Do you think she is a political operative? I have some tees with interesting things on them. Some were bought for me and given to me as gifts and souvenirs .

[sabrina 1]

62. It will be. Independents are now the largest voting bloc in the country. When Bernie decided to run

he knew that to win this election it is necessary to get that vote. Since both parties are membership, Dems approx 10% since 2008, with at least 5% of that number now registered Indies, they will not be voting for a status quo candidate.

Not to mention the non-voters, many feeling that neither party represents them, again not likely to vote for a status quo candidate, that vote is going to be pursued, is being pursued, for someone who does represent them.

[A Simple Game]

67. 3rd party? Isn't that what Hillary supporter tells me at least once a day

that Bernie is or am I just imagining that?

Maybe if Bernie were the front-runner their shirts would say "support Democratic Socialism."

[hughee99]

7. Hillary, of course. Nt

[zeemike]

8. Money decided it.

Because money has the vote that comes before people get to chose one of the two they pick.

[LiberalElite]

10. OH that is a GOOD one! K&R!!!!

[BeanMusical]

12. Kick and R

[cui bono]

25. I wish you would delete that pic.

Do we need to go there? It's one thing to list a candidate's record/associations in a post, it's quite another to have a pic with a meme like this on it.

[Orrex]

47. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Sun Jul 12, 2015, 08:27 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Exactly right. How could somebody who is an unflinching advocate for big bank$ and Corporations ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=23401

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No comments added by alerter

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jul 12, 2015, 08:38 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm not even a Hillary supporter but this hate for her has gotten out of hand.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is further evidence that Sanders' greatest liability in the upcoming primary season is the hostility of his supporters. This is an unacceptable attack on the likely Democratic presidential candidate and, it must be noted, a not-too-subtle "dick joke" at Clinton's expense.

If a similar statement were posted about Sanders, I suspect that nikto would be among the first to condemn it.

Hide it.


Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing alert worthy or hide worthy here.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Typical Bernie supporter verbal diarrhea.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[truebrit71]

66. Juror#3 is a fucking tool.

ALL Bernie supporters are hostile?

The greatest liability Mrs. Inevitable has in the upcoming primaries are her supporters telling everyone else to fucking do as they're fucking told.

You want hostile? Keep going with this superiority bullshit and see where it gets you.

[artislife]

75. I don't understand

This is said in the Bernie community, so who alerted this? I am trying to understand what is allowed to be posted and where.

[truebrit71]

76. Alert trolls most likely.

Even if you're banned from a group you can still alert on it. Just another reason why the DU jury system blows chunks.

[artislife]

77. This is a minefield

You gotta be sharp and alert at all times here...

[cui bono]

80. Wasn't me, though I don't think it's an appropriate thing to post.

Safe havens are for keeping out the hostility, not for allowing a place for unchallenged hostility imo. It is the new trend in the HRC camp to post smears in safe havens where Bernie supporters can't defend him, but I don't think we should stoop to that level.

[artislife]

81. Not to be argumentative...more like questioning

I understand keeping out the hostility.

However, the photo was a real person wearing a question that seems legit. There was no other words posted that smeared H imo, so I don't really see how it is hostile.

But, I believe you do. Which is perfectly fine and I accept and respect that.

I really am trying to get the lay of the land in this area and in the GDP area.

[cui bono]

82. No, not the photo in the OP, the photo in the hidden post.

I think that was over the top. As I said in my response to it, it's one thing to point out someone's record and associations, it's another to put up a pic with a rude meme on it.

[artislife]

83. Okay

I have done that twice today...connecting one post with the wrong post. I should get out of the house and into the garden!


Thank you for clarifying.

[BrotherIvan]

14. After the 2008 campaign, it is a very good question

[oasis]

15. Who produced that tee shirt?

???

[840high]

16. Best question of the day!. k/r

[rhett o rick]

17. k & r. Thanks for posting. nm

[Enthusiast]

18. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

[OnlyBernieBurnsBush]

19. Not a fan...

I believe Bernie's values are best for the United States and for a nation that hopes to be a leader among nations, but I don't think Hillary is racist.

[dreamnightwind]

20. No racism is stated or implied on that shirt

It's just about who best represents black people, and who decided that Hillary is the answer to that question (the conventional wisdom we are being sold).

I'm fairly certain Bernie would be a far better representative of black people's interests than Hillary, but that is up to every voter to decide, not any sort of mass-distributed conventional wisdom serving the monied elites.

[nxylas]

21. No, but a few Hillary supporters were implying that Bernie is

Their "evidence" being that Vermont is an overwhelmingly white state and that his name recognition among African-Americans was much lower than Hillary's. As he becomes better-known among all demographics, the latter argument is falling by the wayside, so you don't really hear this bullshit meme any more. At least I haven't seen it posted in a while.

[merrily]

28. Obama and his camp sure thought she and her camp ran a "racially tinged" campaign in 2008.

Last edited Sun Jul 12, 2015, 05:39 AM - Edit history (1)

So did Ted Kennedy. I agreed with them.

On the other hand, when addressing a group that was heavily African American, she went into a fake Southern accent on a number of occasions and once even compared working in the United States Senate with a Republican majority to working on a "plantation," etc. Both the "racially tinged" campaign tactics and the plantation comparison were jaw dropping to me.

Despite the heat she took in the past for the odd accent, it seems to have re-surfaced during this campaign as well. And some suspicous issues about Sanders have begun to bubble up during this primary campaign.

[cui bono]

35. And she sure did. And now some of those very same people are supporting her and trying to paint

Sanders as a racist or at the very least, someone who is stupid and out of touch about racism.

[merrily]

39. The NAACP gave him a 97% rating. He spoke out very quickly after Ferguson and

Charleston, etc. He has been speaking out on the campaign trail. The campaign is still young. There have been a number of posts in this group and elsewhere giving another side to Bernie. Among other things, he's never had to "evolve" on any issue to get onto higher ground. Can he reach out more? Yes. I believe he will.

Should he have actually gone to Charleston, instead of sacrifically asking his donors to donate? I don't think so AT ALL. That was not a moment for candidates to show up.

[cui bono]

40. Had he gone at that time he would have been called an opportunist or tone deaf.

It's what the centrists who are fine with corporate Dems have to say in order to justify supporting a candidate who is not a liberal and who is a corporate candidate. They don't want Bernie to be good on both social and economic issues since their candidate is weak on one, so they make up an argument to separate the two issues and then claim Sanders falls short on the social one, when he simply does not. But they have to find a way to divide and conquer to get the corporate Dem in.

[merrily]

41. Regardless of what it would have been called, it would have been wrong.

IMO, Hillary is not good on social issues, as a whole, or on economic issues, as a whole. She has been very good on women and children--two things that affect her rather directly. On other things, she's been "evolving" after the culture evolved or spotty at best. I cited her 2008 primary campaign as one of the three major reasons she is not my primary candidate.

I had to laugh at Podesta on one of the talking head shows, after being questioned about her different stances on equal marriage. First, he went to some trouble to say that American culture had changed since she took a stand against equal marriage. And so, her stand changed. However, he concluded that spiel with "She's always led on this issue." If his definition of "led" equals leading from behind, he was spot on.

That reminded me of when Mook sat there with his bare face hanging out and went flat out deceptive on a talking heads show, when asked about polls that have shown Americans do not trust Hillary. He said simply that there were no such polls, a jaw dropping statement. There have been many. Surely, he was aware of them.

And, typical of our shilling media, the host did not follow up on either Podesta's response or Mook's. I believe that was Chuck Toad, but I can't swear to it. I sometimes flip stations on a Sunday morning.

Anyway, when asked the hard questions, they either point to Republicans and, when they can't point to Republicans, they've more than bent the facts on at least those occasions.

[zentrum]

54. Agree. Also...

…… the way she answered the question, asked in a TV interview in 2008, about whether or not she thought he was Muslim. Not challenging but rather exploiting, any kind of racial/ethnic prejudice is of the same ilk.

[merrily]

56. Something like, "He has said he isn't and I take him at his word."

I'm sure they foresaw the possibility of that question and very carefully parsed the answer. It was like "Hey, don't blame me if this guy turns out to be a secret Muslim. How could I possibly know something like that?"

It was even beyond, "I've worked with him for four years and know of nothing that indicates in any way that he is a Muslim."

Someone who works in my building is a Muslim. I don't know him very well but I gather he is Muslim because he takes breaks to go to the building manager's office to pray and because he takes nothing by mouth during the day during Ramadan.

Beyond that, nothing is wrong with being a Muslim. We have at least one African American Muslim in Congress, don't we? And no one even tried to make that point.

[zentrum]

70. Yes, it seemed

….very pre-programmed. There was a pregnant pause, which subtly conveyed that she was unsure of the answer, doubted it—not to mention, the other point you make—that she should have challenged the racist premise of the question to begin with. Her answer and way of behaving embarrassed me as a Democrat.


I love Keith Ellis, the sole Muslim in Congress. Like Barbara Lee—he speaks for me!

[merrily]

71. To be fair, NO ONE challenged the premise that being a Muslim was wrong.

Not even McCain, who went through that speech about how Obama was a good person, not a Muslim. (I have always thought that bit with the woman who commented to McCain that Obama was a Muslim was staged, but that's me.)

Not even the supposedly enlightened talking heads.

[zentrum]

86. But a Democratic

...presidential candidate should have. We're supposed to be the party that doesn't go in for that stuff.

[merrily]

87. I think the 2008 primary and this one are proving that to be false.

[artislife]

91. Super Tuesday...

That couple of weeks was soul crushing. I had been a big Bill fan. This is where I got off the Clinton wagon and have never looked back. It reminded me of a fight between friends that gets out of hand and one of them stoops so low and uses anything that will weaken the other.
For some it would be calling them fat, or old, or ex-felon or uneducated....but they did it with race.

I have one brown parent and one white parent. I have have had that tactic I stated above hurled against me in a fit of anger by someone I would have never have thought who would do so. And that is what that couple of weeks were like.

Not overtly racist, even quietly racist, but when her back was against the wall...the curtain fell.

[merrily]

92. IIRC, it started with Jesse Jackson and escalated bit by bit to "hard working white people."

Although, I don't recall offhand the timing of the birther emails, the leaks of the photos of young Obama in traditional African garb or the leaks of Rev. Wright's "black liberation theology" sermons. One or more of those things may have come before the Jesse Jackson comment.

[CTBlueboy]

23. Love the T-shirt

Last edited Sun Jul 12, 2015, 05:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Where can I find myself one lol

That's a damn good question

This black guy is a Bernie Sanders supporter

Not getting hoodwinked by Clinton sorry

[cui bono]

36. I sure hope that was an innocent typo!

[cui bono]

24. I love this OP but I honestly think that since it involves HRC it should be in GD:P

not here in a protected group.

Not that I think this OP is anything like the ones I've seen in other groups, but there is a growing trend to post OPs that are nothing more than smear attacks on a certain candidate in protected groups knowing that they can not be properly defended if defended at all. What I love about the Bernie group is that I don't see that happening here. I don't even see negative OPs/posts about another candidate/supporters that aren't requested to be self-deleted by members/hosts of the group. Would be nice to keep the integrity intact and be fair in not having HRC be the focus of any OPs that cannot be defended by her supporters.

[merrily]

29. It would also help, IMO, if those who do not support Bernie's winning this primary

would not show up here to throw in their two cents.

[cui bono]

31. Yes, but one thing I like about the Bernie group more than any other is the integrity it has shown.

One glance through any group that has an anti-Bernie stance or at least tolerates a smear against him and you can see the difference in them is astounding. It's nice to know this group is not posting smears of others in protected zones as is going on elsewhere.

Personally, I don't really like having the protected groups that much, I don't mind a contrary position as long as it isn't distorting the truth and is a reasonable concern based on facts.

[merrily]

32. I haven't checked the O'Malley group lately, but early on, anyway, that group

was all about supporting its candidate.

Factually based criticism that can be supported with links from very credible sources sources is not a "smear" by any means. However, the hosts here have decided to go a certain way with this group and I respect their wishes. However, if people who would like to see Bernie lose the primary feel free to post here, I feel at least somewhat free to contradict them. Meanwhile, this thread is becoming meta, which the hosts also oppose, though it allowed in groups.

[cui bono]

33. I have no problem with contradicting them if they post here. My point was just that I wish that

an OP that is specifically about another candidate gets posted out in GD: P and that negative memes such as the one in that pic that I replied to upthread not be posted at all, as I mentioned in that post I made. Just my opinion.

[merrily]

37. Different members of the group have different wishes. It's up to the hosts.

I did not think the OP was awful. It was not even that heavy.

[cui bono]

38. Understood. I was just expressing my thoughts.

And now I'm on record so 'they' can't come after me! Just kidding. They'll still come after me. hehe.. I kid, I kid...
or not.

[Thespian2]

46. Goldman Sachs

Chief planner of the Euro-zone debacle...

[marym625]

48. Not locking, I need to speak with the other hosts

But we did receive an alert from a Hillary supporter. Please keep the negative down to a minimum

[Autumn]

55. I'm not inclined to lock it at this time. Since some are saying that the Black Community

will not support him IMO this OP is part of the discussion and in that respect it is fine for this group.

[marym625]

57. Thanks Autumn

Just don't want to let an alert go by without addressing, no matter what the source.

It's interesting to me that only some black DUers are given credence and others are not. More interesting that white people, supposedly speaking for people of color, are given more credence than some black people.

The stats in the polls show that Sanders supporters are about equal, percentage-wise, between white voters and black/Hispanic and "others."

[Autumn]

60. I think an OP correcting disinformation against Bernie meets the SOP for our group.

A handful on DU may feel that way but not in the real world. I think this alert has been addressed.

OT. Good morning!

[marym625]

61. Oops!

Good morning lovely lady! .

[Autumn]

63. How is your weekend going? We are having nice weather

for a change. Finally going to be able to mow the pasture, well to be truthful I'm just going to sit outside and watch.

[marym625]

65. Very well, thank you!

Weather is ok..it's been cloudy and rainy on and off but at least we're in the high 70s/low 80s. We didn't even hit 70 a few days there. In July!

Glad you are having a good weekend. Watching is much better than doing the mowing. Much better. Just sip the lemonade.

[merrily]

58. Yet, I've seen posts in other groups that such alerts are inappropriate.

It's different if a post violates the TOS. But alerting hosts of the Sanders Group because an OP of the Sanders Group quotes a one-liner from a T shirt saying, in effect, Hillary may not necessarily be the best primary candidate for all African Americans seems really over the top inappropriate to me. Not to mention the double standard. JMO.

[marym625]

59. We can't go by what they do

Pretty obvious why. But yes, totally.

[merrily]

64. Just my opinion. No reflection whatever on the hosts or the group as a whole. Just me.

[marym625]

50. You know you're in the Bernie Sanders Group, right?

Please self delete.

And, as a response to your accusation about people on DU, it's just not true and think you know that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

51. A question was asked, I answered using want Black people have actually said ...

and the OP's pic tied to the question, as well as your request that I self-delete, makes my "accusation's" exact point; but, none-the-less, I will self-delete.

[marym625]

53. No, sorry, it doesn't

And it's your statement, assumption, that violates SoP.

The article you linked to was posted in this group so again, another assumption you are making.

The article you posted also states that the total non white response is about equal to the overall support. So no one is ignoring anything. Seems you are ignoring what Sanders is saying and doing.

But thank you for self deleting

[zentrum]

52. Um…..

….White bankers?
Media establishment?
Washington insiders?
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz?

Gee, I dunno.

[KrankyInCal]

72. Remember 2008 ?

The 'black community' did not come out in force for Barack Obama until after the Iowa caucuses.

AFA the better known politicians, they'll hold their cards close; but I predict that most of the Congressional Progressive Caucus ( that Bernie founded ) that are also members of the Congressional Black Caucus will come out in support for Bernie.

BTW, Bernie is the only Senate member of the CPC !

[Bluenorthwest]

73. By way of fact, this shirt is from the 2007 primary times, it is not actually about Bernie but in

in favor of Barack Obama.
http://www.independentvoting.org/activistcenter/ClintonObamaHarlemDebate.html

[MrScorpio]

78. They've updated it to show that they can't vote Obama anymore

In essence, they've anyways been anti-Hillary. If Bernie were to become our nominee I doubt that they would pivot over to supporting him instead.

I'm presuming that Dems are going to support a Democratic nominee against the Republicans, whomever it will be. Since these people aren't Democrsts we shouldn't expect the same from them.

[Fred Friendlier]

84. The Black Community, it would appear

That may change, of course, but I am skeptical that hard edged wisecracks are actually going to coax people in the direction you want.