Sanders and the crime bill. The Clintons were "tough on crime" politicians. Sanders was not.

[merrily]

IMO, Vox/Ezra Klein have not always been fair to Sanders. However, this article gives at least 1.5 sides to the story of Sanders' vote on the crime bill, if not two objective sides.

Bernie Sanders voted for the 1994 tough-on-crime law. But it's complicated.
Updated by German Lopez on April 8, 2016, 8:55 a.m. ET @germanrlopez [e-mail]

Sanders was, based on his comments in Congress at the time, unhappy with mass incarceration. So why did he vote for the 1994 law that's drawn so much criticism from critics of mass incarceration, and what does that mean for Sanders today

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11116412/bernie-sanders-mass-incarceration

The article includes several videos and many direct quotes from Sanders and, in that regard, is better than most.

As I posted yesterday: When you can tell a one-sentence lie* and the rebuttal must be nuanced, lying while campaigning is a no brainer--if you don't care about the truth. IMO, people who seek to equate Sanders' vote on this bill for the Clinton's more than full-throated support of it, complete with "super predator" comment, don't care about the truth.

I add that this is an important issue for Black Lives Matter, which approved, and praised, Sanders' racial justice platform back last summer. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/08/10/3689728/after-repeated-protests-bernie-sanders-releases-racial-justice-platform/

As far as I know, BLM has not approved Hillary's racial justice platform. See also: https://shadowproof.com/2016/02/25/clinton-brushes-off-black-lives-matter-activist-who-confronts-her-over-super-predators/


*Those on the right tend to nitpick definitions and a lot of other things. So, let me be clear, by "lie," I mean anything intended to deceive others, including a statement that may be technically accurate but is nonetheless intended to deceive. When a technically true statement, such as "Sanders voted for the crime bill (nananabooboo) is used to try to convey the impression that Sanders' position on the crime bill was comparable to either of the Clintons' position on the same bill, that's a lie that is intended to deceive, even if the statement is technically true. And isn't it incredibly sad that some Democrats even see fit to debate that as to Democratic Presidential candidates? Shame on all who do that. It's disgusting and disgraceful.

[TexasBushwhacker]

1. "Tough on crime" = "lock them up"

The problem with that mindset is that it "harvests" criminals. It does NOTHING to address why people turn to crime in the first place. If you want to truly fix a problem, you find it's cause and you fix THAT.

For example, they figured out a long time ago that children don't learn or behave well in school with empty stomaches. There were two ways to address the problem. You can punish kids with bad grades and trips to the principles office or you can FEED THEM. While certainly not a panacea, at least we don't have kids struggling with hunger during the school day.

So, many people will point out that many crimes involve drugs and/or alcohol. You can punish those who have become involved in the drug trade, but like all business, it is based on supply and demand. Our approach on the war on drugs has been on the supply side. Lock up the dealers and lock up the users for possession or for the crimes they commit to support their habit. But there will ALWAYS be a supplier. The price may go up. There may be more violence. But there will always be a supply as long as there is a demand. The real way to address our "drug problem" is to address why people turn to them in the first place. Poverty, mental illness, lack of education and opportunity, etc etc. Until those issues are addressed and fixed, don't be surprised when desperate people continue to do desperate things.

[Duval]

2. You said it for me.

I'm a retired LCSW and began my profession in Broward County, FL. I saw first hand the issues you mentioned. For the addicts, Rehab should be first, not incarceration, if no serious crime has been committed.

[merrily]

3. Thanks for that thoughtful post.

I imagine the reasons people turn to drugs are as varied as the reasons why people drink booze.

I don't really know, though. I don't do either of those things.

[TexasBushwhacker]

4. Undoubtedly the reasons are varied

But like the serenity prayer says (and I'm not religious BTW):

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."

So, I read about the "Rat Park" experiment. In a nutshell, they had 2 groups of rats. Both groups had access to regular food and water and drugs. One group's environment was bleak - they were isolated, with no opportunities to play or exercise. Let's call it Rat Hell.

The other group had "Rat Park" - other rats to play and have sex with, mazes and exercise wheels and everything that makes a rat's life pleasant.

As I said, both groups had access to regular food and water as well as drugs. The rats in rat hell quickly found that they liked the drugs and would use them as much as possible. But the rats in Rat Park, even though they had access to the drugs, didn't particularly like them. Life was good and even though they could have the drugs, they just didn't want them. You can read more here:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

Now, humans are more complex than rats, or we like to think so. We have emotions and social mores and racism etc. But here's the thing. We are spending BILLIONS fighting drugs and crime, but drug use and crime go up and down regardless.

Remember when Obama said he wasn't against all wars, he was just against stupid wars. Well, IMHO, fighting drug use and crime the way we do is a stupid war. Why? Because it is unwinnable using traditional methods. Kind of like fighting terrorism with traditional military intervention.

Sorry for the bloviation. I really just need to find a job so I don't have time to ruminate about this shit.

[merrily]

5. I think you ruminate very well. While I hope you do get a job, I hope it still leaves you

some time to ruminate. And to write, because you do that very well also.

Certainly we should be researching why people turn to drugs and how we might prevent people from turning to drugs.

It's not going to be as easy as providing mazes, but that doesn't mean we should not keep looking for answers.

[appalachiablue]

11. +10

[CentralCoaster]

6. Would you care to copy/paste my guide to phonebanking?

I don't want to attract attacks but I think my tips are good.

We need NY.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511717475

TIA if you can.

[appalachiablue]

7. You should catch the repeat of Chris Hayes tonite, well after a light supper. He just had on

a hack stating that Clinton's Crime Bill didn't increase incarceration, it was already underway in the 70s. I have to lie down now for a bit.

[merrily]

10. If the Clintons have no already done so, they should buy the head of NBC News, Hayes, Matthews,

Kornacki, Maddow, Mitchell and O'Donnell mansions within an easy commute of the studio, an all expense trip around the world and whatever else they want. They really owe all of them *BIG* time. Yes, some of them no doubt can afford those things on their own, but that's no excuse for not honoring a huge debt.

[appalachiablue]

12. Ha! So true. With their salaries they Should live in better style. I mean what's a

measly $7Mill for Rachel, and $5Mill for Matthews and Hayes-- chump change!!
A couple years ago I marveled when Rachel said, "This job is really, really hard..."

ETA: Exclude Kasie Hunt from La Dolce Vita. Dislikes her job, does it unprofessionally & can't contain her sour attitude.

[merrily]

14. A celebrity--I don't remember who-was being interviewed on a late night talk show--I don't remember

which.

The subject of hard work came up and the celebrity replied:

This isn't work. I used to install toilets on airplanes. That was hard work.

[appalachiablue]

15. A couple years back I remember being surprised and pleased at the Oscars

when Chris Rock said, 'na, real work is lifting and hauling boxes for UPS all day.' Repairing and working on plumbing absolutely is hard work too.
Uh, poor Steve Kornaki used the 'S' word again! He should try some of those 1950s tennis sweaters, avec racket for a change up. And Kristin Welker who's decent should replace Sourie Hunt just on bored and scowling again on the Bernie beat. She wants to be with the cool people in the office like sports reporter wanna' be Steve, Chuckie and all. What an odd team..

Did you notice the Audio of Bernie's April 1 interview with the NY Daily News editorial staff I posted today, interesting and a bit spooky.

[eridani]

8. Why does everyone forget that the crime bill Sanders voted for had the Violence Againat Women Act

--attached to it. He'd have to be a sexist to vote against that.

[merrily]

9. On a thread that is now locked, another poster challenged me on that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1411552

At first glance, the post seems credible. I have not clicked through on the links or done my own research of it and I am not sure I will. The only reason I would need to do that would be to debate it on DU, which seems pointless. No one here is changing his or her mind at this point anyway.

[appalachiablue]

13. You got it. But then it's so convenient...to forget those matters, for some.