The dangers to the party if Clinton continues her scorched earth attacks go beyond the discussions

[Dragonfli]

regarding how it will hurt party unity.

There are some things to point out that go beyond party internal damage and loss of registered Democrats that WILL effect the General election and down ticket races that could really hurt our party's numbers in the Senate and House besides potentially losing the presidency if she salts the earth in a frustrated rage against Sanders.

[center]There are larger elephants (or block of voters) in the room that one must understand we will lose[/center]

There are the independent voters that have only come out for Bernie (they are Independents because they don't like either party's establishments or corruption) contrary to popular belief, they are mostly to the left of the current Democratic party, but about 30% are just right wing bigots that don't like establishment Republicans (lets call them the Trump revolution), they have been polled and like all the stuff we lost when we abandoned the FDR, LBJ programs and the union factory jobs IOW the american dream.

Of those polled 70% are in favor of left wing (old school policies that are and were Democratized Socialism FDR, LBJ policies and even beyond that), I think they are the displaced and disgusted x Democrats, the only reason the party has not shrunk to lower than the 29% of the population the party lately enjoys, is some were replaced by moderate Republicans in the form of "new Democrats" or DLCers if you prefer that have been forced out of the R party by the John Birch Society loons and Theocrats. You will notice that in open primary States the numbers match and we gain much of that 70% (I) for Sanders in tangible votes, they will go Bernie or Bust, they don't like establishment right wing Democrats like Hillary, we did get some back in the '08 voting cycle but long story short we lost them due to feeling they fell for false advertising (one could argue rightly or wrongly so), but lost again nevertheless This block of voters is crucial to win a GE

There is the younger vote that will mostly only come out for Bernie, they are very well informed (not buying into the Pravda media outlets) tend not to vote in many elections because they see through the establishment and only see themselves losing a future they should have, ecologically and financially and don't see the value in voting to continue the trend.

The ecological part is rather self evident because actual climate change is quite real and will effect them more than the older generations, and being well informed, they see establishment politicians as continuing the fossil fuel favoring industries that support both parties through lobbyists.
Financially they see themselves either falling heavily in debt for college and end up flipping burgers anyway for the most part (some do get good jobs from degrees but far too few and are still in great debt) the rest see college as an unattainable pipe dream and end up flipping burgers or unemployed, many of both groups are forced to live at their parents homes much longer than in past generations This block of voters is crucial to win a GE.

There are the disenchanted, or too busy trying to live non voters that until Bernie showed up had given up on politics long ago as a means to positively affect their lives, most of them are poor which include the terminally unemployed in regions such as mine where all of the jobs outside of clerks at stores and restaurant workers have vanished since NAFTA, and the working poor that work two or three jobs for the privilege of trying to raise a family in poverty even tho they work hard, they are very stressed about things like, can we pay the rent or the utility bill this month and sometimes have to choose, that choice leaving them as prey to the pay day loan sharks. This is the fastest growing demographic as this is the hell you are sent to as the middle class disappears if you are not already born into it as most are. This is the largest group of voters , usually non voters as evidenced by our very low national turnout the last 4 decades, because of this This block of voters is crucial to win a GE.


Now, the 29% or 30% of solid Democrat voters are in a civil war between the traditional (and the only successful for the 99% policy wise) old school FDR LBJ Democrats, and the what would once have been called Moderate Republican "New" Democrats. It is a very real schism in the party.

For all the blustering and anger during the primary they will still probably, for the most part hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evil Republicans types in the GE, but lacking the three groups I mentioned above that few on DU are talking about we can not win a General election, especially if Hillary wins and unites the Republicans in their common hatred of her that now spans two generations (I personally believe they will break records coming out for the privilege of hate voting against her).

Perhaps enough of the three un-talked about elephants in the room I mentioned will show up to vote with the Democrats against the Republicans, under a Clinton nominee, I have my doubts, but perhaps.

But two things are certain.
One, these three groups will come out in much large numbers for Sanders and polling shows this, and two, if Clinton goes all scorched earth she may actually split the party enough that the nose holding Democrats won't unite this time around around her as they usually do in the end and she will only increase her negative polling, hurting her further with the other three non Republican groups mentioned above and will most assuredly lose us more registered Democrats. JMHO

All that being said, my conclusion is we all lose if she doesn't stop with the frustration induced and ill advised hateful scorched earth policy she appears to be moving toward.

Note: Xpost from GDP feel free to discuss there as well

[thereismore]

1. Would an FBI investigation disqualify Bernie? YOU BET. Therefore, she should be disqualified and

dismissed. Go away Hillary before you have lost "the math" as well. Because you will.

[merrily]

4. IMO, her record has already disqualified her, whether people admit it now or not.

[Kalidurga]

2. If she somehow manages to win after the disastrous things she has been saying...

I say we petition Bernie to endorse a third party candidate. It might actually work to get that party in the White House if every single Bernie supporter switches and all the other people that are Independents get behind that person. There will be a lot of Republicans voting for that person too, most hate Trump and a lot hate Cruz.

[Dragonfli]

5. I don't think he would do it, but I do think there will be a noticeable increase in third party

Votes anyway if she wins the nom. Depends a great deal upon how she comports herself how much of an increase that may be, if she tries to "destroy" Sanders with smears, lies and the party machine (I should say continues doing so) and the people still want a Revolution plus are really pissed off at her, they will vote someone else rather than stay Home. If she plays nice the non Democrats may just stay home because she can't bring out the youth vote or very many Indys, she is the opposite of inspiring and has no momentum - plus most polled think she is corrupt and dishonest. or they may still want a political revolution and still do it.

Independents and the young are a large part of the movement and they, along with some Democrats if insulted and dissed enough may very well organize the Bernie movement effectively and use it in a focused way on a third party candidate after unified discussion and consensus re who on social media.

He has said all along that change comes from the bottom not the top and it is us not him this is about. The political movement may continue from what he started, especially if she gets all the berners to hate her as much as the Republicans have all along (although I never understood why as she really is a Goldwater girl at heart).

[Kalidurga]

6. Republicans can never tell you why they hate her.

There is a reason for that. They have no idea they just see a woman with a D behind her name and think she is the enemy. But, if they really looked at her record I am sure they would approve D or no D.

[merrily]

3. Well done, as always. I have long thought that a Hillary nomination will mean a Republican

President.

[sadoldgirl]

7. It depends on the way the repug party resolves

its own problem, and I think they will, if HRC
is the nominee.

Whichever way it turns out I believe that the
Dem party is split already, meaning that a lot
of former members became independents during
the last years.

This election makes it just more obvious, because
HRC and Bernie are offering much starker differences
than Obama and HRC did in 08.The other part is that
threats seem to have lost their effectiveness for many
voters.

She cannot bring the party together anymore. If she becomes
the nominee only Obama could possibly achieve it. JMO

[appalachiablue]

8. K & R. Good job.