I am not for Hillary

[heaven05]

she has enough support from Kissinger, bankers and corporations, she doesn't need me. With Bernie I am leaning toward his camp precisely because of his call for economic justice for all. His, "it's just economics" philosophy is a start toward getting economic equality rolling, for the first time in this country's history by the way, for all if I am to believe him to be true. Yet that philosophy will never do anything about the serious racial divide gaining momentum and growing in strength in our culture, especially among more and more in the RW privileged communities of america. His crowds so far reflect his appeal to those worried about homes, food and economic security in those privileged communities.

As I see it though, those jobs, economic justice and equality will never be the answer to racial injustice and hate. Yes a jobs program will provide gainful employment for many, but will his economic policies fight racism coming from those privileged community people who are starting to like what they hear from him? They do represent votes, which is a good thing for Bernie's chances. Don't misread me or twist my meaning here, he has mentioned the current racial climate as a problem for all. Yet his continued speeches are glaring in their dearth of policy positions about racial animosity and hate and how jobs policies are specifically going to help lessen that animosity.

What I am beginning to worry about as an AA is what will his policies do for the AA community and peoples beside make it possible to fix up houses, neighborhoods, streets, abandoned homes, Detroit is along with many AA communities nationwide is seriously blighted with this problem. While his economic proposals are grand what about AA citizens having to continue to stay segregated in those communities because of racial red lining that his economic speeches on job equality and justice have not addressed. Those proposals will clean the streets, maybe stop some police brutality, not much for sure, give a fair chance at a good paying job if a racist is not in charge of granting those jobs. Provide free education for all in state colleges ect, if the equally qualified POC is not denied access based on a legislative backlash to affirmative action as happened in Michigan colleges with the U of M SCOTUS case a few years back. And have no doubt, the minority population has dropped dramatically in Michigan colleges. I have friends who are alumnus. And this 'phenomena' is not just a Michigan problem.

Having equal access to money, jobs and education is great, yet it will not stop the scourge of racism rending the fabric of this culture. I want to see the obvious language of inclusivity and equality as related to today's racial climate in education, jobs, housing. His record since 1963 on racial equality is laudable. He has, in the past fought for racial equality. No doubt in my mind where he stands. Today 2015, is what I'm worried about. Words do have import and to appeal to a wider AA voting bloc today, his policies concerning how he is going to strengthen equal rights and justice is just as important as his economic equality policies. Make no mistake there. Social justice and equality is one thing, economic equality is another. Racial equality stands alone and must be dealt with as such by any candidate wanting my vote.

[sadoldgirl]

1. Well, I think you cannot have one without the other

We have laws on the books concerning civil rights, but it
takes much more than that to change disgusting traditions
and tribal instincts. Look at the police brutality directed
against black and brown people. They are not trained to
act that way, yet they do. There was a big effort to desegregate
schools, yet we find the hatred there as well. It is not just
learned imo, but a kind of tribal attitude.
I think that Bernie tries to overcome this by total
inclusiveness, whether it concerns the AA community
or the Hispanic one. Look how Obama tried and tries
to fight the hatred, yet even he cannot do much.

Honestly I hope for time to change the general attitude,
but looking for instance at the extreme gun love here,
I don't know anymore.
This may not help at all, but it is the only kind of answer
I have.

[heaven05]

2. Oh, I don't have any answers myself

the laws have been and are being gutted by a RW majority SCOTUS, they really have no teeth anymore, because they aren't being enforced with any judicial or justice dept verve. I just hope the candidate that captures the nomination and the WH will at least be a human being understanding struggling people, marginalized people and hated people and willing to address the issues surrounding these people with real change. Thanks. I am running out of hope, really. No change in decades.

[aspirant]

3. We live in a culture

of hate, anger, murder, revenge, greed etc. and nothing good can come from that.

To change the psychology of society we must first change the negatives into positives and only then will we have the where with all to deal with deep-seeded personal failings.

When your fighting to survive, it's dog eat dog and the duty of government is to step in and instill equality to calm the people. Corporatists will selfishly fight for just the opposite.

So the question for me is who truly will fight for raising this society to higher positive levels of human life and then can give all a chance to face the demons within?

In my heart, I feel the answer is Bernie Sanders

[heaven05]

6. I do hope you're right

I trust Sen. Sanders more than the rest. I just want to hear concrete proposals concerning racial inequality and white racist terrorism rising in this land from a person with enough experience with life as he has. And I know that terrorism rising doesn't have a damn thing to do with economics, or jobs, never has in this country. That's fact from my life experiences and study/research.

[aspirant]

8. Racial inequality

has an economic component.

White racist terrorism is rooted in negative American history and learned emotions. To fix this we must dissolve the unjust societal divisions created and advanced by certain factions of government and business. They control our education and keeping us dumb and stupid will insure racism continues.

There are good Americans out there that will sincerely embrace you as an equal, so we know it can be done. IMO a more complete education on inner awareness and values, a better understanding of yourself is essential but education now is a business with a cost and a different focus.

Any corporatist with Bankster buddies are not our friends.

[heaven05]

9. last line

I agree. on edit: Don't misunderstand me, I have friends who happen to be white that I respect and trust.

[Enthusiast]

4. I think I understand some of your concern. Michigan is a special case.

That governor. Geez.

[mmonk]

5. Solutions such as those that Bernie proposes are always

defeated by the racial memes the rich and powerful deploy to keep people defeated and down without hands up or solutions. Fascism arose from depression in Europe using nationalism and divisions much the same way. Race and income inequality are linked, especially in former slave holding America,

[heaven05]

7. tell me how

9 people died because of income inequality last week???? Rich and powerful enjoy the benefit of division I will give you that but just explain how their memes deployed are defeating black people. Black people are attacked and killed by racists, not a dollar bill. Black people are hated and denied equality by racists and their racism in housing(redlining) discrimination, job discrimination that won't stop when Bernie creates all these jobs. Explain your understanding, your concept of white racism, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think so. That flag flying over their statehouse is because of income inequality, right? I just don't see the linkage you do. Never have when I've seen photos of castrated, burned black bodies hanging from trees with a crowd having a picnic beneath the bodies. Nothing to do with income inequality that I can deduce.

My grandparents went through a klan night many moons ago and it didn't have a thing to do with the dollar bill. My grandfather was a successful farmer who incurred the wrath of the local klan because he a veteran of the Spanish -American War, saved his money, acquired some acres of land and was not going to bow to white supremacy and jealousy or the racist meme of that time, and now, that he was inferior to the so called superior white race, because he knew he wasn't and so did the wife he brought from Cuba. She was shot that night, not killed, but he and the family that was with him shot back and goddamit they left him alone after that. This bit of life experience/family history didn't have a damn thing to do with a dollar bill. It's still this way, with varying degrees of virulence and white acceptance in EVERY state of this union.

I'm not buying the linkage, ever.

[delrem]

10. Can any one politician parse out a quick answer to a racial divide rooted in history of a country?

History rooted in slavery, the most absolute form of racism as can exist. It existed in that most absolute form up 'till not that long ago, relatively speaking. And it didn't vanish overnight.

Parse out a quick answer in the form of "elect me and I'll fix it"? Or "here's a nice sound byte for my campaign"?

Could Obama?

Could Obama have done a better job of trying to stop the racist backlash from his election? I don't see how. Obama and his family are exemplars that have already gone down in history, not just in the USA but across the world, as icons of racial tolerance and hope. That didn't stop racism in the USA. On the contrary, the racists freaked out and, feeling isolated, went full turbo. What the Republicans did (up 'til now with the TPP) was unprecedented obstruction at a self-destructive and even self-negating level never seen before. I can't see how that can be blamed on Obama, or on the majority of voters who twice voted for Obama. I don't see how anyone who's the least bit politically aware and who has been following US politics could have any illusions about this.

I think it's better to reflect that despite the incredible racist forces at play that might make a person despair, Obama won, twice. One can parse it however one wants, by looking at polls and demographics, but in the end he won, twice. And that fact is absolute bedrock truth.

[heaven05]

11. that question is ludicrious

Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:37 AM - Edit history (1)

of course not and has one done it over the last 150 years? No. In fact nothing has been done except during the Kennedy-Johnson-MLK years, the 64-65 Civil Rights Acts, since dismantled by SCOTUS at the behest of white society. Don't tell me how I should "reflect" please. If Obama had tried anything that could have even possibly been construed as trying to help one segment of the population with real problems related to white racism, he would be in impeachment proceedings right now. Give it a break. I'm also not talking about Obama, I am talking of the candidate who has my vote, so far.

Also I understand the roots of racism. No class needed thank you. "Overnight"????? You're right, been a whole hell of a lot of overnights, still ain't gone yet. Still hasn't been conquered yet. You're right. Now to me the important question is why? I know the answer, do you?

[delrem]

12. I apologize then, for not having an acceptable response to your post.

Perhaps because I'm a Canadian of European background I'm too removed from the issues that you address for anything I can say to be meaningful.

I certainly didn't intend my response to be understood as hostile. Hostility wasn't in my radar.

If it helps, I don't agree with any "it's just economics" philosophy, regardless of who is saying it.

On the other hand, I'm very wary of that meme going around DU, in particular, which characterizes Bernie Sanders as being either an outright racist (and/or misogynist, and/or anti-lgbt, ...), just because he's a socialist who puts socialist economic issues (guaranteed universal education, medical care, etc.) on the front burner from the outset - or as a clueless jerk who doesn't understand that there's a problem. Furthermore, I don't think the socialist agenda of Bernie Sanders is compatible with an "it's just economics" philosophy.

[heaven05]

13. Bernie Sanders is not a racist

I'm clear on that point. Anti-Bernie people stated that early and some ran with it, Hillary people I suspect, also could be RW trolls. This is to be expected in what's to be a hotly contested and extremely important, to the 99%, national election. Forgive me if I get passionate about the many economic, racial and 2nd amendment problems poisoning our society, causing division and have been for generations with varying degrees of intensity. I just feel, that now 2015, things are coming to a head in a way that won't settle things but will exacerbate those problems. Sooner rather than later. And this rising division, between the haves and have not's, the gun club and those who prefer not to be members, the privileged and not privileged, has me seriously worried.

Who will be able to offer realistic solutions? Hell, I don't know. I'm leaning toward Bernie because he does have fresh, straight forward ideas that will help society's economic and social divisions in general like gay rights, rights of women to own their own bodies and rights to decide about issues related to her body, student debt, the right to an education, no matter who, among many changes he proposes. Yet he's like all politicians of the last 150 years when it comes to addressing the racial divisions of this country specifically. In his case it is, so far, just economics. That won't do a damn thing about a roof, zimmerman, 300,000 registered stormfront members, legislators being supported by the White Citizens Council, a 50's-60's klan dixiecrat group founded to fight civil rights legislation of the Kennedy-Johnson-MLK era. Nixon tapped them and their hate with his and Atwater's "Southern Strategy" during his run for POTUS in the 70's. Got to do more research and see how many were in Reagans administration that supported them.

That group has now evolved into the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white nationalist and separatist group dylaan roof got a lot of his information from concerning minorities, POC especially. CCC's members are rabidly racist and are supporting or have given monetary support to many local, state and national politicians in this country. Many of whom are also associated with CCC and/or members.

The sad fact of american society today is that many of the privileged of the general society and political sphere will not admit the seriousness or size of the growing racial divisions in this country. They dance all around that large elephant in the room with all types of flowery words and honey laden assurances that it's not that bad and just hang on a little longer, your time to not fear, justifiably, a dylaan roof, stormfront member or CCC legislator is coming to try and kill you because of the color ones skin. Well the freedom train been coming for 150 years and ain't arrived yet. That is the frustration. POC have always been marginalized citizens, even the famous and rich. The racist of this country have even been trying to politically marginalize our POTUS for the last 6+ years precisely and only because of the color of his skin. The political obstruction has been unprecedented in modern history. Time for that marginalization to end and inclusion without racial exception to begin. Been 150 years.

Sorry if I came off as a little hot under the collar. Not meant maliciously. Just try to understand the frustration level of a POC dealing with the outright lies, obfuscation and shaming a POC must contend with in liberal, progressive circles while dodging the barbs and bullets of the privileged members of this society. Hope this helps, if you did not know these realities of american life already.

[historylovr]

14. You have some good questions and points.

I don't know if he'll address this more in his speeches. He has made good responses to questions he's posed in the Q & A part of his meetings. So maybe he will broaden his message and policy ideas to reflect this. I do think he needs to, just so more people hear him and understand he's the better candidate for us.