An Appeal to follow Senator Sanders laudable example and take the High Road.

[Indepatriot]

I'll start by saying I'm as guilty as anyone here when it comes to flaming/baiting HRCs more fanatical fans here on DU. If I've had 16oz of organic french roast I'm ready, willing and able to pick apart their often inane posts and comments about why Hillary's inevitable/the only one who can beat the republicans/has "earned" her turn/it's time for a woman in the white house/she's the second coming of Bubba (god help us)/she's a "fighter" for the middle class/etc..... I'm stating today that I'll not piss on any HRC threads. Period. If they attack Senator Sanders I will stand up for him in a dignified and factual manner, without my usual snark and vitriol. I will follow Bernie's laudable example and treat HRCs supporters with respect, no matter how removed from reality a given post may be. Bernie is an EXTRAORDINARY candidate and has inspired me to follow his example. I will debate in a respectful manner when a Bernie thread is attacked by Clintonians, but I will not seek to humiliate or denigrate them or their often-misguided opinions. Senator Sanders rejects such tactics and from now on so will I. This man is playing the game by a different set of rules and we, as his supporters, owe it to him to operate in a similar manner. I am appealing to all of DU's Sanders supporters to take the high road. Let's let the Clintonian's have their party and believe what they care to about Hillary. We can still have fun and rally the troops by staying positive, and the truth of the matter is we'll need those votes in the general. I'd be willing to bet that if we can stay civil and positive, just like Bernie has, we can actually win over some HRC fans BEFORE the primary. We are blessed with an EXTRAORDINARY candidate, let's live up to the high standards he's setting. WE CAN DO THIS!!

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. I *always* go easy on 'em.

I don't IGNORE them; but I go easy on them.

[RoccoR5955]

2. Count me in! n/t

[TM99]

3. I am sorry.

I applaud Sanders campaign approach, however, those here who think he does not 'attack' his opponents seem to be wrong. He most assuredly does. He just doesn't stoop to the level of passive aggressiveness expressed by surrogates and the like. He does not run ads that attack the character of his opponent. He does, though, attack their policies and positions.

What makes Sanders the better candidate for me is that he is NOT some extraordinary other. He is actually quite mainstream, rather ordinary, and genuinely real. I would expect to see him riding a train home after an event. I would expect him to lose his temper on occasion like we all can do as human beings. I would expect him to stand up for what is right and factual against repeated claims to the contrary.

I am my own person. I do not go looking for a conflict with Clinton supporters. And I will also not back down when I see Clinton supporters doing stupid, erroneous, egregious, gossipy, bullshit either.

[Rocky888]

4. Dissing another democratic candidate hurts all democrats.

Bernie's method of relying only on his political and personal record and not going negative on the other candidates in his party is who he truly is and not a gimmick. This is one of the many things that makes him the only candidate for me. But, he is intelligent enough to know that any negative remark about the others could cause damage to the democrats chance in 2016. And......

I think bernie fears a republican/koch win in 2016 much more than his need to be president himself.
Something we should all take into consideration as we move closer to November 2016. It really scares me to think these people could own all three chambers of government.

[Cheese Sandwich]

5. I'll just follow the site rules and community standards. That should suffice.

I appreciate the importance of what you are saying here though.

For bad behavior there is a button to alert the admins or mods, and they also have juries (which is a very cool feature of the site btw).

As long as people are not violating the rules or community standards I don't see any reason to create a special standard above and beyond those. I think the summary of the rules is just try to be nice and respectful to the other people.

Bernie doesn't want to run a negative campaign. But people on internet web forums have a lot more leeway to criticize other candidates, and we should do so liberally. Hillary probably has a team dedicated to spreading negative garbage about other candidate on the internet. Bernie doesn't have anything like that.

[BrotherIvan]

6. You are falling for passive aggressive manipulation

Please don't. It is an attempt to control the site by a minority of posters, some of whom engage in the most vicious and vile posts. The fact that the group that brought us "Not Enough, Bernie" and the meme that Bernie is only for white men and hates all people of color, women and immigrants now constantly claims that just stating facts about their candidate's record, or in the barest example, her own words, is a "smear."

Read the comments in this thread and you will see the regular response to anything that even just highlights their candidate's record without any commentary at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026838140

I personally have witnessed this many, many times. I have seen the co-opting of racial struggle in order to serve their agenda. I have seen them endlessly tear down traditional Democratic principles to twist their ideas to suit their personal needs. They have demanded blackouts for their own candidate's kickoff threads, and yet I cannot remember a single one of the Bernie kickoff thread that didn't contain numerous attempts to portray Bernie as ignoring "social justice". Because Vermont. And old white hippies. And yachts.

It's all over this board for everyone to see.

This is an attempt by a small group of people who actively block out the record and words of their candidate in order to avoid admitting what supporting her policies infers, and are now demanding that you do it to. Shutting down all dissent and demanding cheerleading only is disingenuous and manipulative. Don't fall for the "tone" argument because their cries that Sanders supporters are the only ones engaging in mudslinging is just manipulative lies.

[cui bono]

9. I agree with you.

Also, they trot out talking points, like how Bernie supporters are so mean, when they are the worst offenders. It's a classic Rovian tactic of projection. They've said it so much they're getting us to all say we have to be nice etc... while they are plotting in their group as if there is a war going on. They literally had an OP up trying to get people in their group to tattle on Sanders supporters by emailing links to DU posts to his campaign. Seriously.

No, I will point it out when necessary. I do try to be civil but there are times in OPs such as the infamous "Not good enough" OP where they must be told outright how vile and disgusting their posts are. There is no equivalent from the Bernie supporters. None. In fact in this group the two negative things I saw posted got requests to be edited or deleted and then were self-deleted. Nothing close to that behavior over in the other group. I try to not think about it but it's all over the place, so yes, I will call it out.

[BrotherIvan]

11. It's strange that there is a demand for the entire site to become a protected group

People should start reading comments on articles all over the net. They will see that DU is one of the most civil places in regards to commentary on HRC. Huffpo, Kos, and just about any news outlet has far far worse. In a strange twist of irony, those furthest to the right of DU are demanding lockstep and claiming persecution where none exists. It's such an old, tiring tactic.

[BrotherIvan]

12. I saw the "tattle" thread

[TM99]

14. Yes, exactly.

I went back and forth with one of these supporters in a sub thread attempting to compare the 'rapey' satire to Clinton's 2004 anti-LGBT bigotry. I was admonished numerous times for not being a 'saint', that Sanders would not approve of me, yada yada. It was an attempt to deflect and manipulate.

It is a game. It is bullying. It is classic trolling behavior. It is projection. And yes, it is definitely passive aggressive manipulation.

[BrotherIvan]

19. I always forget that logic doesn't really factor into it with some people

Because you can prove your point all day long, back it up, provide numerous sources and the person you are talking to will bring it right back around to the beginning. I have to say that I like that people are changing their avatars because now you can easily tell which people welcome discussion and which people don't. But it is those who seek to control that are making all the fuss.

[jeff47]

16. +infinity.

Lying isn't an acceptable way to support a candidate.

And a candidate's track record is the only way we can measure what that candidate truly believes. Discussing that track record is not a smear.

[BrotherIvan]

18. It flows from the candidate herself and the campaign

She wants to (appear to) be the next coming of FDR/Warren and any pesky facts like her own words, actions, or voting record gets in the way of that carefully crafted illusion. Anything that is not 100% positive is a RW smear which she has valiantly been combatting her entire life since the cradle. Only on DU to people fall for this, nowhere else that I can see.

[SoapBox]

7. Best for me is to just

bite my tongue, walk away and liberally use Block and Trash functions.

I'm very glad that there are those that can remain calm and stick with fact...thank goodness.

All that with staying in our nice, cozy and safe group!

[Indepatriot]

8. To be clear, I have no intention of allowing anyone to lie about or smear Sanders

without engaging them. I'm merely saying I will do so with facts and calm, respectful debate, and allow the HRC fanatics to hang themselves with their own rope. Grandma was right about catchin' more flies with honey than with vinegar, and I sincerely believe that a big chink of Hillary's fans (the ones who aren't half-crazy) are still up for grabs. If we conduct ourselves like Bernie does, debate the issues and tell the truth without resorting to getting drawn into a pissing contest we can help win over some folks whose support will be greatly appreciated. I'll follow Bernie's lead on this, as his conduct so far is incredible.

[BrotherIvan]

10. Most of us do

And yet, the howls reach the skies. They do not want debate, plain and simple. All the manipulations are only to achieve that goal.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

15. I don't think many here are.

(up for grabs)

Generic voters across the country, sure, even those who 'support her', but on sites like DU, you've mostly got political junkies and partisans, and those who have decided they are 'supporting her' are doing so because she's the centrist establishment candidate, and actually does represent them. They actually want to continue on the path we're on, warhawkish, plutocratic, domestic surveillance and offshoring jobs. They remember the 'Clinton years' as some sort of golden age, nevermind that it was built on deregulation and 'bubble' economics that quickly inflated the economy so that it could burst, allowing the rich to make money on the bubble, then make more money on the crash.

If Bernie wins the primaries, they may or may not vote for him (even as they protest, loudly and frequently that of course they will, because they don't believe he has a chance in hell, so it's a hollow promise...), but none of them are going to have 'come to Jesus' moments before the primaries are over, one way or another.

[jeff47]

17. There's also a set of people who are absolutely sure we're still in 1992 or 1972.

So the only way to win is DLC-style candidates.

The failures of this strategy in 2014, 2010, 2004, 2002 and 2000 haven't quite yet convinced them to update their calendar. Neither have the successes of the opposing strategy in 2006 and 2008.

[eridani]

13. Don't know what anyone can do about the fact that--

--there will always be people who insist on conflating personalities with issues.

[Capt. Obvious]

20. This works:

[swilton]

21. Agreed

It distracts from the issues to engage in personal attacks.

Furthermore, some people will never change their opinions.

Thank you for the thoughtful post - he can win on his own charisma as well as the issues he raises.

[hootinholler]

22. Nope I will continue to point and laugh at the stoopud.

We tried respect. It didn't work. When we get respect from Hillary's supporters, I will return it.

The notion that you will win over the Harrow crowd here is laughable. They can only be beaten, nothing we say or do will convince them Bernie is in their best interests.