66-29

[Major Hogwash]

No, that's not a college basketball score.

That's the number of self-identified Independents who would vote for Bernie Sanders in the General Election vs the number of self-identified Independents who would vote for Hillary Clinton in the General Election.

It's because Bernie has far more widespread appeal to the majority of voters in America than Hillary.

This poll was taken before the New Hampshire primary.
So, I suspect it has only widened since then.

[Cassiopeia]

1. Bernie is our only option for keeping the WH.

Clinton will lose the GE if she's the nominee.

[pangaia]

6. That's why one campaign plan is to say BERNIE will lose the GE..

Rover at work...

[Voice for Peace]

17. Is the DNC really so dumb? Or is there a whole other

dimension we don't know about?

[pangaia]

18. ummmmmmmmm

There are ALWAYS dimensions we don't know about.

But, in this case..... while there may very well be, the DNC took a wrong fork somewhere.

[Voice for Peace]

23. Just saw in another thread

hints of collusion between the corporate parties

[Hydra]

31. That's my vote

A Bernie win would do untold damage to their setup. They HAVE to keep him "irrelevant" and not nominated, even if it screws their chance at the WH.

I'm sure Hillary would have an epic meltdown if this disrupts her coronation yet again. Hell hath no fury x 10.

[pangaia]

38. Where, if I may ask..?

[Voice for Peace]

39. No idea which of the many threads it was

It was just bantering, no links or anything.
But does make ya wonder...

[hifiguy]

47. Other than Bernie, Liz and a few others it's just

slightly different faces of one party: The Money Party.

Why vote for Nixon in a pantsuit when you can vote for a person of long-standing integrity and principle? That's what I want to know.

[Cassiopeia]

28. Not dumb, just corrupt.

[Ivan Kaputski]

41. Blindness caused by greed.

[Kablooie]

20. Depends who she's up against.

Even if people don't really want her she's better than the current crop of Republicans.

And even if Bernie is the far more popular candidate the DNC has control and there are a heck of a lot of super delegates who will be ordered to vote for H. People forget hat primaries are not really the people's choice.

[zeemike]

25. Don't count on it.

When people are faced with choices they don't like there is always the destruct button...vote for the worst out of spite.
Human nature is funny that way.

[Ivan Kaputski]

42. Indeed. I've seen many FB posts that say they will vote for Rump to punish

the DNC DLC establishment.

[maindawg]

52. Bernie could win a three waynrace

He would crush it in a 4 way election. If the D runs Indy, and Bernie destroys but the DNC blocks him , all hell could break lose. They want jeb /hill with a jeb win because, Ohio. Don't be fooled. Revolutions are not easy.

[wickerwoman]

21. I think either of them could beat any of the Republican nominees.

They have an absolutely shockingly weak field.

And since either Bernie or Hillary could win, let's pick the candidate who's going to fight for real social justice and progressive ideals for once in my lifetime (Bernie).

[thereismore]

2. Everybody knows this, some choose to ignore it. And that's how it's gonna be

until she bows out.

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. If she really cared about the people and this country, she'd do the right

thing and bow out now. Jmo

[doxyluv13]

3. This is an important electability issue

Democrats don't have anything like the registration advantage they used to have and if we can have a candidate who appeals to independents without selling out, it's a great advantage.

[TTUBatfan2008]

4. I think she will have a tough time...

...appealing to Independents and moderate Republicans, especially as there is more scrutiny given to the FBI situation during a general election. She will also have a tough time motivating the youth vote to show up. All of this adds up to a GOP landslide.

[dchill]

35. before she's done, she will have a hard time...

appealing to half of the Democratic Party.

[hifiguy]

48. "Hey, I'm not QUITE as bad as the repug"

is a platform/slogan guaranteed to inspire absolutely no one. The Dem base will just not turn up or will vote third-party or write Bernie in.

[tk2kewl]

5. nice numbers. what's the source?

[Major Hogwash]

11. I saw it on "America This Morning" on ABC.

I think it was a Pew Research Poll they were talking about.
I was surprised to see it on the crawler that ran across the bottom of the screen.
But, I was more surprised that nobody mentioned it here at DU.

I had just gotten off work very late, in the wee hours of the morning, and so I was watching a little tv before I went to bed last Tuesday or Wednesday when I saw it.
I don't usually watch tv in the middle of the night, but the anchor of that program is cuter than hell.
I think her name is Reena.

[tk2kewl]

12. great! thanks

[malthaussen]

7. Wow, I'd have thought there were more than 95 independents in the U.S.

Perhaps those numbers are meant to be a percentage?

-- Mal

[Major Hogwash]

8. Well, hell yeah, they are percentages!

This wasn't taken from a Clinton rally, ya know!

[Lucky Luciano]

9. Boom! nt

[rhett o rick]

10. LOL. Wait, what's a Clinton rally? nm

[Fawke Em]

13. This

[JonLeibowitz]

14. Wow that looks stuffy and aristocratic.

And I'm not talking about the building.

[Jack Rabbit]

24. Court of Versailles, 17th Century

There are living today two pretenders to the3 French throne. One, who has the greatest following among backward Frenchmen called royalists is Henri VII, a descendant of Louis Philippe who ruled France from 1830 to 1848. By the line that was accepted by the French Bourbons, he would be what most of us would consider the "legitimate" heir to the French throne, if there were any such thing as a legitimate monarch.

The other styles himself as Louis XX. He is of the Spanish branch of the Bourbon Dynasty and has followers among a more purist group of royalists who reject the Treaty of Utrecht, the document that ended the War of the Spanish Succession in 1713. Under the provisions of the treaty, Philippe, the French Dauphin and grandson of King Louis XIV, was allowed to claim the Spanish throne on the condition that he renounce any claim to the French throne. Philippe thus became King of Spain as Felipe V. The treaty was a monumental defeat for Louis XIV, who had hoped to unite the kingdoms of France and Spain under his descendants

Fast forward to the twentieth century, age of vile dictators. Generalissimo Francisco Franco, the fascist dictator of Spain, succeeded in marrying off his only child, María, to a prominent physician; their eldest daughter, also named María, married Alfonso, Duke of Anjou and Cádiz, a grandson of Spain last King to that date, Alfonso XIII, in 1972. Their oldest surviving child, Luís Alfonso, Duke of Anjou, is the aforementioned Lpuis XX. Luís Alfonso is, therefore, both a descendant of the French tyrant. Louis XIV and the infamous Spanish dictator, Francisco Franco. That's one really fucked up pedigree.

Now here's something stuffy and aristocratic.
[center]

[/center]

[ThreeWayFanny]

29. About 400 showed up...

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-spoke-at-georgetown-and-hardly-anyone-showed-up-2014-12

Clinton's remarks on "Smart Power: Security Through Inclusive Leadership" were delivered at Georgetown's Gaston Hall, an auditorium that seats more than 700 people. ... Georgetown spokesperson.... (said) there has been large turnout for past events at the school with Clinton. She also suggested the fact it is the last week before final exams may have contributed to lower turnout this time.

"Secretary Clinton's visits to Georgetown are always met with great enthusiasm here. She was here four weeks ago and students lined up overnight for that visit and we had to turn people away due to the interest This is the last week of classes or the semester and many students are preparing for finals. Gaston Hall holds about 700 - the bottom holds about 400 and it was full for today's visit."

[Fawke Em]

30. Yes... that was Georgetown.

Here's Bernie's trip there:

[ThreeWayFanny]

32. Where he delivered his great defence of "democrat socialism" and.. . ...

..... quite remarkably failed to make any mention whatever of his great hero, failed socialist cadidate Eugene Debbs, and instead lauded liberal Democrat FDR, who beat four socialist opponents in 1932.

Who is this guy trying to fool?

(I refrence his prepared remarks: https://berniesanders.com/democratic-socialism-in-the-united-states )

[Fawke Em]

33. But he has talked about Debs many times.

However, what he was trying to do in this speech was convey that American has tried Democratic Socialism before and it was successful. FDR is the best-known example of that and one people can relate to.

Very few people know who Eugene Debs is.

[ThreeWayFanny]

37. You are right he HAS talked about Debbs . ...

..... way too much. He reportedly has a picture of him hanging in his office. And he participated in a hagiographic documentary about him also.

What I think he was doing in this speach was to evade responsibility and consequences for his idelogy. A little late for that.

A lot more people are going to find out a lot more about Eugene Debbs. And a lot more about democratic socialism. As practiced in Venezuela.

And it won't be to our benifit.

[mhatrw]

40. Oh, scary socialism! The people of Venezuela were SO MUCH better off under Perez & Caldera. nt

[ThreeWayFanny]

44. Good luck on selling that to the American electorate. eom

[mhatrw]

45. All the US knows about Venezuela is that the NY Times hates Chavez. nt

[ThreeWayFanny]

46. I think the longer bernie runs the more we will learn about ....

.... this great excersize in democratic socialism. And it won't do the Democratic Party any good.

[dchill]

36. Yay-yuh!

[zentrum]

16. Terrifies me.

….because she's sooo unpopular. Could cost the Democrats the WH and the Scalia seat on the Supreme Court.

Bernie is the stronger, more electable candidate but I never underestimate the ability of the corporatist Democratic Machine to stop him and us.

[Ivan Kaputski]

43. Oligarchy: If we can't get Hillary then Rump is our backup.

[RichVRichV]

19. Wow!

Considering 40% of the electorate identifies as Independent, that's some impressive numbers for Bernie, and some scary numbers for Hillary.

Can anyone find a link to the poll this was taken from? I'm curious what the sampling looks like.

[Kip Humphrey]

22. this is

YUUUUGE!!!

Reason #37 why I'm voting for Bernie Sanders.
WIN, Bernie, WIN!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. Nice!

[ThreeWayFanny]

27. If this poll was taken in the context of the New Hampshire primary . ...

.... it was probably a poll of independents likely to vote in the Democratic primary. Not a big surprise they lean heavily for Burnie.

Here is an exit poll consistent with that result: Sanders won by 45 points among self-identified independents (72-27), and they accounted for 39 percent of NH voters – fewer than in past years, but still many more than in other states.

Of course, this can't be extrapolated to independents nation wide - who generally can't vote in primaries anyway.

Source is ABC: http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/voted-live-hampshire-primary-exit-poll-analysis/story?id=36805930

Has anyone found the source for this poll?

[libodem]

34. That's what I'm talking about

WooHoo Feel the Bern!

[Enthusiast]

49. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

[panader0]

50. Will Hill be able to get the super predators vote?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

51. Used to be that was the basis for 'triangulation', to win over the indie vote.

Now we see that such triangulation is actually the losing position with indies today.