Bernie: What I think really happened...

[Playinghardball]

[TBF]

1. He's right - they simply don't vote

If we could get them to the polls for Bernie we would win by a landslide.

[RufusTFirefly]

2. I vote, but I can understand people who don't

Hard to get inspired by a candidate who isn't as bad as the alternative.

I hope Bernie reinvigorates our badly damaged democracy.

[billhicks76]

37. Yep. Total BS

Having a D next to your name simply isn't good enough. Anyone can do that...including a conservative. Know them by their actions and not their words.

[cantbeserious]

3. I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[erronis]

9. I hate to ask this question, but what will you (we) do if Bernie doesn't make it.

To be honest, this codger is older than me by a decade - and I'm feeling my age.

To be honest, there are people that don't like their planned progression of power challenged.

Life is not perfect. We need to be sure we have some good ways of protecting our interests that don't pin all of our hopes on just one person.

The most important thing is that the activism that Bernie has helped must be kept alive in whatever form is necessary. Social Democracy (or Democratic Socialism) is something we should all be pushing towards.

The Occupy movement probably gave the genesis to this electoral phenomenon. Let's make sure that fervor continues and is strengthened. We all have witnessed that the naysayers in the media and in the intrenched political apparatus are flat-out wrong and have been spouting smoke out their asses. Let's stop listening to them and start using our own sanity and knowledge to get this world back where it should be.

[jtuck004]

13. Form small cooperatives to help each other until the end time. When Bernie wins

we will be forming cooperatives anyway, and I see no need to waste time.

If the people decide the country is over with and don't elect him some of us will do that anyway. That will enable us to make group purchases of tar paper for our villages.

[sulphurdunn]

16. HRC is 67.

Bernie Sanders is 73. Clinton's age is rarely noted. The answer to the age issue is to pick one hell of a VP.

Clinton is the status quo candidate. There is no one but Sanders to "pin all our hopes on". O'Malley or Webb would make acceptable VPs.

We don't need to keep idealistic activism alive. We need to win, now.

Sanders was around long before OWS, as was the progressive left arm of the Democratic Party. Political victory is unattainable without mass media. The people listen to it. It cannot ignore a shift in the Democratic Party even if it tries to undermine it. People in the streets cannot be ignored.

[erronis]

18. And I sincerely hope you are right - It cannot be ignored.

[juajen]

41. Have to say that there is a difference,

Hillary is a very young 67.

[sulphurdunn]

45. Actually, her health is more a concern

than her 67 year old youth. As it should be with any candidate.

[merrily]

48. Thing is, health today is one thing. Health at inauguration is another Health

one to eight years into a Presidency is another. And there is no crystal ball for that. You have to play the odds. And age is a huge factor in those odds. But, six years don't make that much of a difference in the odds.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=6773

Truth be told, I would have preferred someone younger than Warren, Hillary, Bernie and Webb. The ones who meet that description are O'Malley (52)and Chafee (62). I think around 55 is about ideal, old enough on day one for some wisdom; young enough to leave office around "normal" retirement age in 8 years.

If I were going on age alone, I'd choose O'Malley.

[merrily]

47. Not really.

[Lancero]

50. Results 0-7 Leave

On Thu Jun 4, 2015, 08:57 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Have to say that there is a difference,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=11590

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

this is bernie sanders group not hillary clinton group

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 4, 2015, 09:16 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: *Sigh. Another abuse of the jury system. There is absolutely nothing disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate about this post. So it's about Hillary Clinton. Ask poster to delete or move it. Stop wasting seven individual's time with a butthurt.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see a rule prohibiting positive posts about Hillary in this group.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: why the hell am I being asked to hide this extremely polite post??? LEAVE IT.. Sanders supporters, grow a thicker skin.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What in the world is wrong with saying Hillary has a young look? WHAT THE FARK?

[magical thyme]

17. everybody feels their age differently, depending on a variety of factors

Bottom line is that as a lab tech, I've drawn people in their 30s in horrible shape, and people in their 90s who were sharp as tacks with perfect specimens.

When I worked in customer service, I had people my age who were embarrassments, sounding like they were 100 years old at least with froggy voices and fuzzy brains. And people in their 80s and 90s who, again, were clear-voiced and sharp as tacks.

I'm happy to vote for somebody who sees America today in the context of America 60+ years ago.

[JDPriestly]

25. We need to support lots of candidates who will challenge the status quo in Congress and

at the local and state levels.

Bernie is asking us to become more active locally as well as nationally.

It won't do any good to elect Bernie and with him, a Republican Congress. That would not permit any change. We have seen that with Obama. The Republicans set out to thwart any chance of change from day one -- and they have succeeded.

We have to be a movement, not just Bernie Sanders supporters.

[billhicks76]

38. No More Clintons (Clinton=Bush)

They don't just destroy middle eastern countries. Try our own.
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/deadly-bi-partisan-agreement-brought-us-mass-incarceration-25-million-behind-bars

[juajen]

42. Actually, she is a Rodham, for the 100th time.

A lot of women are hanging on to their maiden names for this very reason. Their identities get lost when they take their husband's name. It's archaic.

[billhicks76]

44. Agreed

[sulphurdunn]

46. Hillary Clinton?

Hillary Rodham? Hillary Rodham Clinton? She should pick one and stick with it.

[jwirr]

26. I am afraid of the answer to your question. For many years after RFK I voted only because my

family insisted. Even now that is a lot the reason I vote.

However, I am now seeing that if we lose this thing or are betrayed by our elected officials what we know as our country is over. So it is not just the candidate I am voting for anymore. I am now voting for the future. Hopefully Bernie will help all of us see the importance of that. I am grateful that he is here to lead us. But I think many of us are finally headed in the right direction for the right reasons.

As to his age - I am 73. He needs a good VP that we can trust.

[cantbeserious]

27. I Will Still Vote For Bernie - The Write-In Ballot Works Just Fine - Thank You

eom

[Paka]

28. Age is very different in individuals.

I'm a year older than Bernie and still going strong. Many of my relatives were vigorous and active into their mid-90's. Keeping everyone involved in the progress he represents is important, but so is seeing that he gets the top spot to inspire us. We need him at this point in time.

Edit to correct error.

[sabrina 1]

4. He gets it, because he's in touch with the people. Unfortunately the leadership of the Dem Party

didn't get when they lost the House. And they still didn't get it after they lost the Senate.

Instead of analyzing 'what really happened' they BLAMED THE VOTERS.

And if they refuse to pay attention AGAIN, they are going to help get one of those insane Republican into the WH.

And that is why we so badly need Bernie Sanders who CAN get those voters back because he is speaking for THEM.

The party leadership has no clue, or interest, in the voters, all they want is their votes in order to elect THEIR idea of 'leaders' and even though the voters have spoken loud and clear to them, they are still not listening.

[daleanime]

7. When the choice was to pay attention and change their actions....

or to not pay attention and not change their actions. They chose the one that pays better.

[on point]

12. ^^^ 1000% Support! We have a winner! Too bad the Dem leadership is still clueless

I thin they are so busy playing their power games amongst the PTB, they still think it is about a marketing veneer to con the voters, instead of genuinely representing their interests.

The country is on the wrong course, dem or puke leadership. By upwards of 60+ percents the country wants fundamental change in direction.

[MisterP]

14. that's exactly how it plays out in Latin America

but at least there they get a cup of rum and some beef "just for voting" regardless of the two parties

also, they profit by selling off the country's assets

[peecoolyour]

15. They know what the American people want.

They just don't give a shit.

Because when one door closes, another one, with a pile of cash behind it, opens.

[FlatBaroque]

23. Democratic voters are obviously to blame

for not going along with the agenda of the Debbie Wasserman Shultz wing of the Democratic party. I honestly do not think that DWS and progressivism can co-exist in one party.

[sabrina 1]

33. I agree, the Third Way cannot co-exist under the same roof/tent as the Progressive Wing of the party

And since a majority of the American people AGREE with the Progressive Wing of the party, how on earth did we end up allowing the Third Way to take over the leadership of the party?

I can only speak for myself. I didn't realize what was going on until the late 2000s. The Republicans were so bad that I blindly supported people who while not nearly as crazy were taking advantage of that situation to push through legislation, such as ending regulation of the Banks, Welfare Reform, Media conglomeration, iow, doing what the Republicans wanted to do but could not get done.

At the level they operate on, there are no Dems or Repubs. That is for the little people and for a long time it worked. But people, like me eg, are far more tuned in to the 'system' than we were just a decade ago.

Some saw it for what it was and simply opted out of the system by not voting at all.

We kept on feeding the system in order to stop the Republicans even as we were beginning to realize that something was terribly wrong.

But as more and more people are no longer willing to play the game, the question is, what next?

I think Bernie Sanders understands all of this, he has witnessed it close up. And I think he decided the timing was finally right to do something about it.

Iow, he IS the answer to begin the turnaround so that we can get to work undoing the damage of decades of Corporate rule. And it will take a long time, but it has to start somewhere.

I'm willing to start with Bernie Sanders.

[FlatBaroque]

34. I recall doggedly defending Bill Clinton to my peers and contemporaries back in the 90's.

I would tease my debate opponents by saying we would have 8 years of Bill and then 8 years of Hillary. I was 100% behind th Clintons reflexively because the Repubs relentlessly attacked him.

It's all stagecraft.

I sure didn't have a critical lens through which I was viewing their policy initiatives. Look at so many problem today and they trace back to Clinton era deregulation and reform. Finance - Repeal of Glass Stegall, Media - Telecommunications Act, Mass Incarceration - Crime bill. All this shit passed with my gullible lack of critical thinking about what was being done while we were treated to the circus of wagging fingers and constant impropriety. They are still doing the same shit to this day.

TPTB are going to seriously consider whether/how they can knock Bernie off his soapbox.

As far as your being tuned into the system, Sabrina, I place you and woo in a special category of those who have lifted up the veil and seen the connections in the matrix. I see them too but you guys are relentless in your getting the message out clearly, consistently and objectively - just like Bernie. He is fortunate to have you on his team.

[sabrina 1]

36. I was such a rabid defender of Clinton I used to go to forums which were dominated by

Right Wingers and frantically defend him, and like you, taunt them with the idea of 8 years of Clinton, which we got, and then Hillary.

I was so disgusted by the nastiness of the Right Wing, the whole Monica thing, the Impeachment attempt I was ready to do battle with ANYONE on their behalf and did. I received death threats, was called every name in the book, but I was relentless in their defense.

And then one day after it was all over I saw a photo of Clinton with George Bush and I read that that Barbara Bush viewed Clinton as 'part of our family'.

Wtf? It took a while to absorb this, what seemed like a turn of events. But slowly I had to accept the fact that we had been deliberately distracted.

I am embarrassed to say that when Right Wingers TOLD me that 'your guy is the guy who reformed Welfare' I put my fingers in my ears. That was a life changing lesson for me.

So we have a lot in common it seems!

And now I am older and wiser, no longer willing to turn a blind eye when my favorite politician does something that I know is wrong.

Thank you for your kind words. I am supporting Bernie because he has a long record of being right on the issues AND voting that way.

I knew very little about Clinton, or Obama to be honest. But they were not Republicans and they sounded great.

This time I have researched Bernie's history to make sure I am doing the right thing, and I am as confident as I can be that Bernie is probably the best presidential candidate we could wish for right now.

Thank you so much for your comment ...

[malthaussen]

5. Stipulating that this is true...

... we still need to address the question of how to get those 64% involved in their own government.

-- Mal

[libdem4life]

8. The opportunity to vote for someone who walks the walk and talks the talk is a beginning.

[daleanime]

6. K&R.....

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. Washington is so bad that they are asking lobbyists what the public wants.

[Jack Rabbit]

11. As I said after the last election . . .

Please click here.

[FlatBaroque]

24. Awesome post n/t

[Jefferson23]

19. Millions of them, millions. K&R

[SoapBox]

20. Ditto!

[Atman]

21. The cool thing about being so old is...

...you don't give a rat's ass what people think about you anymore.

You're free to speak your mind. And speak the truth.

[nolabels]

49. Actually you don't have to be that old, does the word 'sociopath' ring a bell?

The wisdom and a steady hand that comes from experience is sometimes bestowed on individuals as they get into their senior years.

[True Blue Door]

22. A charitable interpretation of irresponsible behavior.

Refusing to vote is a vote in itself, and it's not the vote of No Confidence that people try to say as an excuse. It's a delegation of authority to the people who do participate, which in the case of the last election were Republicans. Well done, assholes.

But if Bernie Sanders can woo these idiots back to participating, that would be helpful.

However, I would advise him to cool it with the "2 party" spiel. He's running for a partisan nomination, so be partisan in the primary.

[99th_Monkey]

31. Non-participation IS a form of voting

a vote of "No Confidence" in the same ol' same ol' politics-as-usual.

[True Blue Door]

39. Bullshit. Non-participation is the same as voting for Republicans.

Because Republican gains are always the result, and every voter who isn't a teenager knows that.

I understand that we can't insult people who "non-participate" in a campaign, but we all know what they are: They're childish buck-passers who take no responsibility for the state of politics, and act like other people should woo them into playing a role in the affairs of their own country. Then they refuse all responsibility for the consequences when Republicans inevitably gain from it, as if it doesn't affect them.

That's not a principled stand, that's just plain stupid. And I personally despise those people for that. Choosing to be irrelevant is one thing; doing it and then claiming it's a principled moral stand is the kind of idiotic hypocrisy that cries out for public shaming in a John Oliver bit.

[99th_Monkey]

40. People are not as stupid as you apparently think they are

If Democrats want really be the 'part of the people' we need to respect
people's non-participation and ask "WHY?" until we get it right.

Then make it right by acting like the party of the people instead of all
this 3rd way bullshit.

Clean up elections (hooray Hillary is talking about this), clean up Wall St.,
give voters a REAL choice, like Sen. Sanders is doing this time around.

We'll see how this all pans out, but just sayin' that insulting people because
they see through all the bullshit and opt out, is neither an intelligent nor an
effective way to build a robust Democratic base to take back the nation from
Rethuglicans.

[True Blue Door]

52. They don't "see through all the bullshit." They contribute to the pile.

People are responsible for their own actions. A politician is responsible for what they do, not how people vote. How people vote is the responsibility of those people and no one else. People standing up and accepting that responsibility is democracy - nothing more, nothing less.

If they actually gave a shit about the choices they're presented with, they would participate in primaries. But they don't. Even though every time their non-partipation puts a Republican in the White House, a million people somewhere end up slaughtered, they have the unmitigated gall to act like they're taking a principled stand.

They gave us Richard Nixon and George W. Bush, and by extension the Khmer Rouge and ISIS, not to mention the Supreme Court that gave us Citizens United and struck down the core of the Voting Rights Act. And the wonders of their Orwellian morality apparently never cease.

They know what happens when they don't participate, and they don't...fucking...care. The whole world means less than gratifying their tantrum.

[99th_Monkey]

53. You can vent your spleen to your hearts content

guilt-tripping people is not worth a tinkers damn compared to
genuinely inspiring people by telling them the truth, and by
REALLY representing them, and not the highest bidder.

This is one huge reason I'm supporting Bernie Sanders this time
around. He's the real deal.

[True Blue Door]

54. I agree, calling civic dropouts what they are accomplishes nothing as a campaign strategy.

Nothing except setting the record straight about the fact that they are irresponsible people, and not heroes to be celebrated.

Candidates should court them. The rest of us should hold them in the contempt they deserve. We fight battles while they sit on the sidelines judging. They're like players who will only take the field five inches from the endzone and then demand credit for touchdowns, contribute nothing when things are tough and just blame everyone else for every problem ever.

I like Bernie Sanders because he's NOT one of those people. He obviously takes responsibility to help shape the trajectory of this country.

[99th_Monkey]

55. I don't doubt that your assessment is somewhat accurate

however, I also know there are many politically aware descent well-intentioned people
who are disillusioned and have pretty much given up on electoral politics, not because
they are lazy or stupid, but because they see all too clearly how FUBAR the DC "punch &
judy" show has become and simply cannot stomach it.

There are all kinds of people out there who are not voting for a multitude of reasons,
but I believe many need only to be inspired again, to see that real change is possible,
that some politicians are no-bullshit straight shooters.

[True Blue Door]

56. As far as I'm concerned, people who don't even exercise the power they already have

have no business complaining that other people aren't doing enough for them.

They're ignored because they wait for politicians to come to them, and even when that happens, the relationship is incredibly high-maintenance and has rapidly diminishing returns.

That kind of attitude makes for an unreliable constituency that doesn't pay attention, isn't committed to rewarding its friends or punishing its enemies (even knowing the difference takes more energy than they're willing to spend), and often does the reverse - punishing those who court them with hypercritical attention later on, while rewarding those who ignore them with mutual indifference.

Like, for instance, if the amount of compulsive, microscopic-detail-oriented hypercriticism leveled at Barack Obama were directed at Republicans, they would never be elected again. But we have this perverse constituency where the heat gets hotter and disillusion deeper the closer one gets to doing what they claim to want, but all interest and motivation evaporates in the presence of perfect antagonism because it confirms their most negative beliefs about society. By default, they end up pushing America to the right.

This kind of thing is why the American people can be so on board with the progressive agenda and yet rarely see it reflected in politics. People are brainwashed by consumerism, so they act like government is a product or service. It doesn't fit any of those molds, and acting like it does is very dangerous and erosive. We get out of it what we collectively put into it, nothing more and nothing less.

Government is just a lever. The more work you put into it, the more powerful the result.

[99th_Monkey]

57. I think this is where we agree to disagree

Like I already said, you have some valid points, but I also stand by everything
I've already said, so I won't repeat myself.

Thanks for playing

[raouldukelives]

51. Amen to that. Just like a more miniscule version of the damage done by Wall St investors.

With the "Who? Me?" attitude they take to assisting, funding and profiting the greatest enemies democracy has EVER faced.
They care not, for today, for the future, only for themselves. Funding the Republicans and then pretending to vote against them. Just as we fund the terrorists in the world and pretend to fight them. Or the drug wars and corporate prisons, or climate deniers or 3rd world slavery as real and as horrible as any experienced in this country.

[L0oniX]

29. K & R

[99th_Monkey]

30. I see a major voter registration campaign in our near future

to register millions of disaffected citizens who had given up on politics altogether.


WOOT! You Go Bernie Sanders!!!

[cprise]

32. Unfortunately, the system gets to use a non-vote as a stamp of approval

That's the way it usually goes in public discourse: Its strongly implied that 'non-voters must have wanted it this way' or that they were OK with any/all candidates. Therefore, the establishment gets to claim they've got the sanction of democracy or the will of the people.

Part of the problem lies with our culture of distraction. Too many people simply won't respond unless some kind of rockstar-esque, singular personality is courting them in a nation-wide media blitz.

Of course the larger problem is still the corporate drive towards oligarchy. But non-voters' absence gives their lobbyists lots of maneuvring room ...and the fig leaf that many people don't disapprove enough to show up to lodge a protest vote (which would be boring).

--

If you don't like the choices the oligarchs are arranging for you, PROTEST BY WRITING IN another name. You don't have to coordinate with other voters....just write in ANY other person who you think is nice. If a few million people did this while boosting turnout at the polls it could totally remove the figleaf of "democracy" from the establishment's system of fraud.

But its boring beyond imagining, except to certain authoritarian Democrats. And that's another part of the problem. If you tell those people you stayed home on election day, you might see a momentary twinge of exasperation on the faces of Democratic supporters and a curt word or two. Same thing if you say you are a Republican and voted as such (though they may hold their noses); Authoritarian Democrats respect their Republican counterparts.

BUT if you tell them you voted for for 'Other', then the guns come out and they will HOUND you about "handing" a victory to Republicans and rational discussions may not even be possible with these people any longer. You may also lose their support as a friend or associate.

So... make your protest vote a little more intriguing by lying about it afterwards.

[FlatBaroque]

35. thanks for the lol

Good post. Nice finish.

[Scuba]

43. Exactly correct, and why I wrote ...

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6701425