FYI, Sanders voted no on HR 2048 (Freedom Act)

[joshcryer]

So much for panic over a procedural vote.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00201

[marym625]

1. He said he would

Who was panicked? I wish everyone had voted no.

[joshcryer]

2. There were threads in GD.

[marym625]

3. oh. sorry

Not paying much attention there lately

I trust Senator Sanders to do as he says he will.

[joshcryer]

4. I didn't even reply in them.

But I did see some supporters get caught up in the flamefests...

[delrem]

5. Supporters of who, joshcryer?

Who do you laugh at for "panicking" w.r.t. votes regarding NSA powers?

[joshcryer]

7. Sanders?

People were responding to obvious clickbait. As if Sanders would support the surveillance state
I don't know where I am "laughing" at anyone.

[delrem]

8. You're making a claim that is aimed nowhere because you don't cite even one case,

so it's 100% innuendo. And you're laughing at those who you now claim to be supporters of Sanders -- for panicking -- without giving one instance to substantiate your statement.

All while denying that you are doing it.

But you seem happy that the resolution passed. Contrary to Sanders' vote.

[joshcryer]

9. The title of the post was:

"Bernie voted tonight for the surveillance state."

Just another witch hunt ascribing positions to me that are absolutely false.

What on earth makes you think I'm "happy that the resolution passed"? Can you even substantiate this?

Actually, strike that, I'm going to get in trouble again for defending myself here from false accusers. So bye.

[delrem]

10. Now you make no sense at all.

Your post doesn't align with facts about what was voted on Sunday, and what was voted on last night.

If your post is an attack on Jesus Malverde's OP, why didn't you respond to his OP?

Why do you only now, after I've wrung something - ANYTHING - out of you, say that the criticism in your post was about his OP?

Finally: yes, you did dismiss today's vote as nothing more than a procedural vote, and your comment made it into a sneer - and your subsequent comments made it a sneer at Sanders supporter, and by association Sanders.

[marym625]

23. wow

You can sure read a great deal into something.

[Autumn]

25. Please don't do this. If you don't like the poster don't

respond and start an argument.

[delrem]

28. OK, message received loud and clear. I apologized.

[Autumn]

29. Thank you, it's been a tough day.

[marym625]

12. Not surprising.

Part of why I try to stay away. I tend to do it myself. Not proud of that.

[joshcryer]

14. I'm "opting out."

I trash thread and ignore any GD clickbait posts regarding Sanders. I can't call them what they are but they are (jury would hide my post) not posting in good faith. I've put so many on ignore and trashed so many threads. If someone craps on Sanders for some BS, they are gone. Period. Done.

I should just stick with the Sanders group but I don't want to stop participating in DU as a whole. There may come a time where I stop going to GD but it hasn't happened yet.

[marym625]

17. Great way to do it

If there could be actual discussion, real give and take, without the snark, the lies, the excuses, "eek can't help your reading comprehension" bullshit, GD would be a great place. But it's not.

I know we can't live in a bubble. Going to the Sanders group is wonderful. We learn, we share, we're polite for the most part. (We, the hosts, really do try not to allow any discourse of a personal nature, from anyone.) But that also doesn't allow for some discussion because it can't ever stay a civil conversation. That is not to say that some people are incapable of it. Just that once it starts to be a discussion that has any controversy, inevitably, someone jumps in that cannot be civil.

It was one post in particular in GD that was allowed to stand that did it for me. Any post about the primary I really try to stay away from in GD.

[delrem]

6. Unfortunately, the figleaf passed.

With nary any real public discussion or understanding.
So, now, all is good. OK?

"Uniting and Strengthening America by Fulfilling Rights and Ensuring Effective Discipline Over Monitoring Act of 2015 or the USA FREEDOM Act of 2015"

So your freedom is assured.

[TM99]

11. The point of this OP

is that Sanders did not vote for the Freedom Act even though yes, that post you referenced did more than suggest that he did through his vote to end cloture and that yes, he would vote for it.

This is now refuted.

Are we happy that the Freedom Act passed? I think most of us here in the Sanders group would answer that we want it all gone. But it is a small step.

Sanders, however, remained consistent and true to his principles. He did not vote for the Patriot Act ever, and he did not vote for the Freedom Act. I applaud all of those. Do you?

[marym625]

13. I do!

I wrote to Durbin about it, asking him to vote no. But I think he was actually a cosponsor of the bill. He has voted for the Patriot Act every time.

Back in the day, when he actually responded to his constituency, I wrote him, via email, about his voting to extend the PA. He emailed me back stating, he would reply via regular mail. His letter said that he was using regular mail because he didn't trust email!

[TM99]

15. Do as they say

and not as they do.

We don't get privacy. Why should they?!

[marym625]

18. They shouldn't

But they sure get it.

Did you see about the guy being charged with a felony for clearing his browser?! This country has become a police state. Absolutely no ifs ands or buts.

[TM99]

19. Yes, I was reading that here this morning.

I am not surprised. Saddened, yes, but definitely not surprised. I visited police states in eastern Europe as a teen exchange student in the early 1980's. The warning signs are well past being noticed.

[marym625]

20. I have to say, that one surprised me.

Much doesn't anymore. But that one did. It is a horrible interpretation of the law. I hope it gets shot down in a higher court. Though if it gets to SCOTUS, we're sunk.

[delrem]

21. Turns out the point of the OP was to slam another DUer,

Jesus Malverde, who misspoke:
"Bernie voted tonight for the surveillance state"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026759913

All that was voted on was to fast-track last night's vote, so severely limiting debate and no filibustering (as I understand). Merrily suggests that Bernie had to vote with the Dems (or not attend), or lose Dem caucus support, but that's by the way. (That suggests that Dems have *some* discipline, even tho' it's always the case that 10 or 15 or exactly as many as needed always seem available for cross-over votes to enable Republican politics...)

Sanders' supporters are allowed to be critical of Sanders. That's one of the ways that Sanders is different than most -- it isn't blind allegiance. So with a correction for how Malverde misspoke, and with Merrily's explanation (if correct), I think it's fair to point out that Sanders' vote on Sunday didn't help.

More substantively, I notice that once again a kind of blackmailing brinkmanship was played out, with a last minute vote on an issue "the sky will fall if a vote isn't taken *today*", "Oh God, the Patriot Act expired and we're having unprotected sex!", forcing a false and totally artificial narrative. Isn't lengthy debate and discussion, both between politicians and writers of analytical articles explaining the details, better than this Republican methodology?

[marym625]

24. It is fair to criticize something you disagree with

It isn't OK to call out names, make assumptions, and call out one DUer for calling out another DUer for something you are assuming, right or wrong.

Not ok.

[delrem]

27. I agree (it's morning now...) and I apologized.

[marym625]

30. Sorry I didn't see it n/t

[delrem]

31. It was after your post, and Autumn's, and some thought.

[marym625]

32. Good for you

Absolutely zero sarcasm. I have respect for an unsolicited apology

[marym625]

16. Excellent

I feel so much safer now knowing that they have to pretend to have a reason for a secret warrant to obtain our private information that is being held for them.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[SoapBox]

22. I'll just trust Bernie on his decisions.

[delrem]

26. I apologize for my replies to your OP.

They show that I can be a total ass.
I could delete them if you want, but I think there's greater punishment to let them stand.