Why is tolerance so difficult?

[sarisataka]

While participating in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7143004 I encountered some quite venomous replies.

While I am Catholic, many of my in-laws are Native and follow Traditional beliefs. I have no issue standing at a Pow Wow when the benediction is given, even though I do not believe in Animism. I would no sooner touch an eagle feather without permission than any of my relatives would snatch the Host from the priest's hand at a mass. It is simply a sign of respect as a guest.

I have no need to challenge their "primitive" beliefs and they do not try and tell me I am a foll for believing in a "sky fairy".

Yet some people seem offended to their core knowing that I have a differing personal belief. I don't get it.

[rug]

1. I doubt those in the thread act that way in person.

There is something about the internet that encourages bravado and pose.

In short, you're not getting a honest read.

People who act like that would get thrown out of most Democratic clubs.

[sarisataka]

2. I think you are right about

how they would act in person, but maybe it is a truer read than in person.

I believe the quote is “The true test of a man’s character is what he does when no one is watching.” I would extend that to how a person acts when they are able to hide their identity.

[captainarizona]

3. this has been studied homogenization.

many long books have been written about why the group think exists. it sucks ;but its there.

[TexasProgresive]

4. I saw that thread yesterday when just 4 replies

The 1st was dripping with vitriol and is what I have come to expect although it makes me sad. It used to anger me, and that anger caused be to have a post hidden in the religion forum. I have learned to restrain myself from posting there. I am surprised this thread was not locked for being in GD but then I am not in charge.

It is amazing to me the intolerance of some people who are liberal. The attitude of "my why or the highway" is anathema to the Democratic party as we are truly a big tent party. Some of the worrisome attitudes I have seen in my time on DU are extreme religious intolerance, candidate chauvinism, the inability for honest discussion on race, Israel/Palestine, guns and whatever. Then there is the suspicion of people who saw the light and moved to more liberal or progressive way of thinking.

I know that I have moved far afield from your original topic. That's me, I just fly off on tangents. I am like you, Catholic. I have attended a couple of Pow Wows and felt honored to be a guest at their sacred ways and would never have interfered either vocally or physically. We can learn from each other if we don't let ourselves become hide bound, stiff necked and obdurate. When it comes to the wonder of creation and the Creator it is prudent to just stand in awe of the mystery and feel joy in that you were given the gift of growing consciousness.

I don't think I answered your question but thank you for asking. May you and your inlaws days be blessed as you travel on the sacred way growing in peace and love.

[brer cat]

5. Excellent post, TP.

I was going to make some of these same points, but you have done it so well I will just "rec" your post.

I also read that post soon after it was posted and moved on, not wanting to stay after the 1st response. The virulent threads... there seemed to be thousands of them...trashing religions and people of faith after the Charlie Hebdo massacre made me question the entire concept of DU being a platform for liberals and progressives. That intolerance and mockery is not a democratic value imo.

[brer cat]

6. As I noted in the post above

I read that thread soon after it was posted and left after seeing the 1st reply. I saw this OP this morning and went back to skim through to your posts. You held your own very well. I especially liked this comment: "The inability to think in the abstract will seriously compromise understanding of complex ideas."

I don't "get" the vitriol either. I have never seen people of faith trying to impose their personal religious beliefs on other DUers so why display such an affront in Coolest Ranger's very heartfelt post? We can learn so much if we simply listen with respect, giving others a chance to express what is in their mind and heart.

I have never ventured into this group, but would like to read some of the posts here when I have time.

[phantom power]

7. I suspect the kind of people who get offended suffer from "ambiguity panic."

Different people with different religious beliefs? Too much ambiguity!

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/how-ambiguity-panic-motivates-conservative-culture-warriors/

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

8. Until I voluntarily removed myself from the Religion group

I would regularly ask, "I have no trouble understanding why someone would be an atheist. What I don't understand is why so many atheists seem compelled to be nasty about religion." I have yet to hear a decent answer on that.

[kentauros]

9. Well, at the very least,

it's a laundry list of people to put on ignore
I'd add even more to my list (which currently consists of almost nothing but the asshole variety of DU's atheists) but I think I'm at my list-limit. It really needs to be of unlimited capacity, considering the size of DU.

And honestly, I do believe some of DU's atheists are indeed assholes in person. Some people simply are assholes, all the time. I'm sure we all know a few like that in person. Being an AOL (Asshole OnLine, and only online) just brings more stress into life, especially with trying to keep those multiple personalities straight.

I didn't read the whole thread, just clicked on some posts by title. Even so, I read far too many making the weak assumption that faith and belief can be disassociated with ease, as you would do were another to insult your beliefs in scientific facts.

I know we've discussed a topic I brought up here about faith and belief having a direct and strong emotional attachment, and that to mock the belief is to mock the person because of that. Some didn't agree with me, yet I am still of the contention that detaching from faith and belief simply isn't easily done because one is attached through their emotions and not strictly their intellect, as with belief in provable facts.

With so many of DU's atheists continuously mistaking intellectual attachment for emotional attachment, it makes me think that two possibilities are at work here. One, they honestly don't understand the concept (which, after constantly reminding us of their intellectual superiority due to not having beliefs makes me think their intelligence isn't nearly as high as they boast.) And two, it's dismissed out of hand so that they don't have to limit their insults due to having a stronger sense of morality with other people. They'd have to give up being mean, and that's not going to happen any time soon.

[Starboard Tack]

10. Nail on the head

Great post. Sad, but true, and that's from an atheist who has no issue with the personal beliefs of others. The intellectual superiority we often see here is just as obnoxious as the moralistic superiority of the christian right. Maybe worse, because, as liberals they should know better.

[kentauros]

11. Thank you :)

I do wish I could expand my ignore list. It makes life on DU that much more enjoyable. And no, I'm not the kind of person that logs out in order to see who on that list is replying to me. My ignore of them is complete!

Well, there's nothing we can do about it but complain. If Skinner and the rest can't see through their BS, then we just have to suffer with their antics, denying access where possible.

[gelatinous cube]

14. Starboard Tack

You just said everything I've been thinking. Thank You.

[el_bryanto]

12. Tolerance is only of value if you are open to the possibility you might be wrong

If you are convinced of your correctness than there's no use for it. For some on this board, their position on religious issues is so clearly correct that allowing for alternative points of few is the equivalent of a math teacher allowing all answers to 2+2 to be correct.

Bryant

[thucythucy]

13. I've been called a "coward"

for stating that I'm agnostic. Never by Christians, only by atheists.

I don't understand the vitriol either, but yeah, anyone who believes they simply can't be wrong is more likely to become dogmatic, even if their dogma is to oppose all dogma.