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hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:30 PM Aug 2014

Is James Foley a martyr? A brutal death sparks a faith-based debate

David Gibson

(RNS) From the moment news broke that U.S. journalist James Foley had been beheaded by Islamic State extremists in the Middle East, many Christians, especially Foley’s fellow Catholics, began calling him a martyr, with some even saying he should be considered a saint.

Yet that characterization has left others uneasy, and the discussion is raising larger questions about what constitutes martyrdom.

Foley’s parents seemed to validate the martyrdom label when his father, John, spoke at an emotional news conference outside the family’s New Hampshire home and said he and his wife “believe he was a martyr.” Foley’s mother, Diane, added that her son “reminds us of Jesus. Jesus was goodness, love — and Jim was becoming more and more that.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2014/08/26/james-foley-martyr-brutal-death-sparks-faith-based-debate/

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Is James Foley a martyr? A brutal death sparks a faith-based debate (Original Post) hrmjustin Aug 2014 OP
I wouldn't say so. He was taken, then killed, for his nationality not his religion. rug Aug 2014 #1
Yeah I am not sure either but only God really knows. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #2
I watched the video of Daniel Pearl. I couldn't watch this one. rug Aug 2014 #3
No I can't either. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #5
I can't, and won't either. nt No Vested Interest Aug 2014 #21
I'm not sure why anyone would want to watch these - I once started to watch goldent Aug 2014 #28
I was hunted by Daniel Pearl's execution. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #29
I couldn't believe what I was hearing so I checked it out. rug Aug 2014 #30
I agree with you, rug Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 2014 #22
That's an interesting point about Kolbe. rug Aug 2014 #23
Thanks for the info. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #24
An interesting question. okasha Aug 2014 #4
Now this is an interesting conceot that I have never heard of. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #6
I hadn't heard of it, either, okasha Aug 2014 #8
I knew a priest named Fr. John Walsted who wrote icons and I have one he wrote for me. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #9
That's lovely. okasha Aug 2014 #15
Mine is of Jesus but he has written several for my parish as well. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #18
Thanks, I hadn't heard of this. rug Aug 2014 #7
Thanks for posting the image, rug. okasha Aug 2014 #10
I recognized some letters but I was scratching my head. rug Aug 2014 #11
Old church Slovanic maybe? hrmjustin Aug 2014 #14
I trust okasha on this. Way outside my ken. rug Aug 2014 #16
Lol. Old Chur h slovonic I ghink is just spoken in churches now. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #20
Could it be old church slovanic? hrmjustin Aug 2014 #13
The Cyrillic alphabet is derived from it. okasha Aug 2014 #17
I have a friend that can speak and sing in old church slovonic. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #19
Very sad but comforting in a way. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #12
kick. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #25
No, but his message is very powerful. cbayer Aug 2014 #26
I can't watch it either. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #27
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
1. I wouldn't say so. He was taken, then killed, for his nationality not his religion.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:34 PM
Aug 2014

I'm glad he had his faith through it all.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
28. I'm not sure why anyone would want to watch these - I once started to watch
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 11:11 PM
Aug 2014

something like this during the Iraq war, and stopped it soon after it started, and wondered what in the hell I was doing. Seeing something like that is bad for your psyche IMO

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
29. I was hunted by Daniel Pearl's execution.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 11:14 PM
Aug 2014

Horrible sight! Yes it is not good to watch that stuff.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
22. I agree with you, rug
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 07:18 AM
Aug 2014

To qualify as a martyr, one must be killed in odium fidei -- hatred of the faith. I am thinking, however, of one example where that was rather blatantly violated.

In 1941, Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, O.F.M. Conv. was a prisoner at Auschwitz. Three prisoners had escaped, and the camp commandant said that ten prisoners were to be chosen at random, shut up in a hut, and starved to death pour encourager les autres. One of the selected prisoners, Franciszek Gajowniczek, objected that he had a wife and children. Kolbe volunteered to take his place. The SS officer present said essentially, "It makes no difference to me which prisoner goes into the hut." After three weeks, the survivors were injected with carbolic acid.

Now, while Kolbe's death was an ultimate act of self-sacrifice, it was not a martyrdom. Yet John Paul II had him canonized as a martyr, and waffled about him being "a martyr of charity". In short, JPII wanted Kolbe canonized, and broke the rules to get it done.

Incidentally, Gajowniczek was present at the canonization ceremony.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
23. That's an interesting point about Kolbe.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 09:33 AM
Aug 2014

He did it because he was a priest but he wasn't killed because he was a priest.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
4. An interesting question.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:44 PM
Aug 2014

The Orthodox Church has a category of sainthood for thse who are killed while exercising their faith but not necessarily directly because of their faith. They carry the title "Holy Passion Bearer." I think James Foley might well fit into that group.

Father Bill McNichols is a wonderful artist who paints icons, some of not-yet-recognized saints, including Dorothy Day. One shows Holy Passion Bearer Fr. Mychal Judge against the background of the 911 attacks, embraced by St. Francis. It's deeply moving.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
8. I hadn't heard of it, either,
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:55 PM
Aug 2014

until I stumbled across the icon of Fr. Mychal online, with Fr. McNichols' explanation of the title. Google Andrei Rubelev Studios to see it, as well as the artist's other work.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
15. That's lovely.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 11:00 PM
Aug 2014

May I ask the subject?

It's always fascinated me that icons are said to be written, rather than painted.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
18. Mine is of Jesus but he has written several for my parish as well.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 11:04 PM
Aug 2014

He wrote one of the presentation, one of Mary and christ child, and one of the last supper.

I think they consider it a part of Scripture in a way. I have to look it up.


okasha

(11,573 posts)
10. Thanks for posting the image, rug.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:57 PM
Aug 2014

The calligraphy is archaic but not ancient Greek. The counterpart, roughly, of Gothic script.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
16. I trust okasha on this. Way outside my ken.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 11:02 PM
Aug 2014

I always hated Beowulf. Transitional languages are so indecisive.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
26. No, but his message is very powerful.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:05 AM
Aug 2014

There is something about him that seems to appeal to many people. I can barely look at pictures of him for some reason. The idea of watching the video actively repulses me.

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