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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 02:19 PM Aug 2015

Law abiding responsible gun owners. Yeah, right.

Forests grapple with 8,500 gun incidents

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/08/10/forests-grapple-8500-gun-incidents/30903483/

CASTLE ROCK, Colo. — Perched around a secluded campfire in the Rocky Mountains, Glenn Martin jerked forward, said, "Ow," and died. The wayward bullet that struck him in the national forest has campers and other users calling for changes in recreational shooting policy.
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Since 2010, United States Forest Service officers handled 8,500 shooting incidents across the country. Of those, 926 were in the Pike-San Isabel. The reported illegal shooting has intensified precipitously in recent years.
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She (Erin Connelly, supervisor of the Pike National Forest) attributes the shooting issues to the proximity to the major metro areas Denver and Colorado Springs, with droves of gun enthusiasts. Three law enforcement officers patrol the vast forest.


The 60 year old Martin was waiting to toast marshmallows with his grand-kids when he was shot. That's gotta leave a lasting impression on the kids doncha' think?

Yeah, they're all responsible and law abiding until they're not. Then somebody dies.
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Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
1. Why would it be legal to discharge firearms in a National Forest?
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 02:48 PM
Aug 2015

Last edited Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Or anywhere not dedicated as a shooting range or hunting area.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
2. Well, THAT wraps it up.
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:01 PM
Aug 2015

One (probably drunk "cowboy&quot playing with his gun manages to kill someone,
so ALL gun owners are irresponsible.
Got it.

"The Woods" within 100 miles of populated areas are a very dangerous places during hunting or camping seasons.
That is when all the self styled Rambos leave the suburbs to go play in the woods with their guns.\
They dream about it and killing stuff all year long.

Luckily, I live more than 100 miles away from populated areas at the end of a long, dead end road in the Woods.
4WD recommended.
One way in... one way out
We are seldom bothered by the Sururban Rambos. IF we see a strange vehicle, or out of state tag, we will stop them, and tell them they are on private land.

Some of the out-of staters actually visit locals during the daytime asking for permission to hunt.
What used to be a neighborly "Yes" a few year ago has been turned into a "NO" because of multiple, chronic abuses of this permission, and no regard for fences or property lines.
There was also a rise in Gut Shot (Rambo) deer that took agonizing hours to die in the brush.
No fun to find a suffering, mostly dead deer on you property with a bullet through the gut trying to get a drink out of a pond or tank.

Not too long ago, there was a hard and fast rule for hunters.
If you shoot and wound something, you MUST track it down. No exceptions.
Unfortunately, this is no longer true.


That is not a rule among the Rambos.
Tracking a wounded deer through thick brush is no fun.
If a wounded deer hits the brush, they'll simply find another one to shoot.

It used to be the locals assholes who "shined" game at night, but not anymore.
If someone is "shining" at night, local sheriffs, constables, game wardens (if possible, I've never seen one but they are notified), and locals run them off. They seldom come back.
We KNOW these woods.

When I confront these out-of-State Rambos for illegal hunting, the most common response is,
"I didn't know anyone lived back here."

There are 12 people that live within a square mile of me. Most have bullet holes in their houses from the Rambos. I have two, near the roof line.


Yes, there are certainly irresponsible "hunters" out there. There are also crazy "survivalists" who stockpile ammo
and pray for the day they can shoot hungry "zombies" coming from the cities. (I KNOW who they are really talking about.)
These are scary, sick people, and we stay away from them. They believe they can live on K-Rations for a year, peeking out firing slits. That will get old in 2 days, and they WILL come after people & neighbors who grow and preserve real food. (like us)

There are probably over 1000 guns in this area, including our 4.
All in all, we've been in this rural county for 10 years, directly connected with the local Police, County Sheriff, local Fire & Rescue (Both Fire Fighters, and wife is a first responder).
In ten years, I can recall nobody getting shot, no "accidental" discharges, or any other kind of gun "accidents'

Most local 7 years olds have better gun sense than any of the "Rambos" who visit.




flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
3. I assume you're replying to the OP and not Starboard 'cause your post makes more sense if its
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:42 PM
Aug 2015

misunderstanding is applied there.

So all out-of-towners are Rambo dumb asses that shoot up your property, gut shoot game and are wholly unreliable but I'm broad brushing all gun owners?

Look, I appreciate that there are a number of responsible gun owners out there. I like to count myself among them. The sooner we all reject the NRA rhetoric and 2nd Amendment absolutists and force our knowledge and responsibility on all gun owners the sooner we begin saving lives.

They're all responsible and law abiding. Until they're not.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
4. You are correct in that my response was to the OP.
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:53 PM
Aug 2015

I generally agree with you.
However, I dispute your last line:

You said"


"They're all responsible and law abiding. Until they're not"


I beg your pardon.
My grandfather was a homesteader and responsible gun owner & farmer until the day he died at 81. There was NO "until he was not".

All of my Uncles and my Father (a Marine from Dec 8th,41) who fought his way across the Pacific were responsible gun owners until the day they died. There was NO "until they were not". I inherited 3 of my 4 guns from him. I lived with him for 20 years, associated with him for another 20, and did NOT know about two of them...neither did my brothers. None of his Marine friends EVER came over and showed us their guns. I never show mine either. They are hidden, but available.

My father & his Marine friends took it seriously, did it well, and passed it on,
even blessing me with a "rite of passage" at 10 years old where I spent 4 days in The Woods with my Dad and a Marine friend who taught me Marine firearm safety. I was given a bolt action.22 after passing this test.

The .22 I was using had a tube magazine that held 10 rounds. MANY time during the 4 days I was asked the "status" of my weapon (don't ever call it a gun around a Marine) .
If I couldn't remember how many rounds were in the magazine......or ESPECIALLY if I couldn't tell them if there was a "live" round in the chamber....I Failed.

Becoming an "irresponsible" gun owner does not happen overnight.
There is no "until you are not".

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
5. Well if we're gonna' pick at nits the absolutely accurate technically correct phrasing would be
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:28 AM
Aug 2015

"They're all law abiding responsible gun owners until so many of them are not."

8,000 times someone in a national park suddenly became a law breaking irresponsible gun owner. They bought the gun legally, transported it legally, carried it onto park property legally and then did something stupid. Law-abiding and responsible right up till they fired the shot that killed a grandfather camping with his grandkids.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.


bvar22

(39,909 posts)
6. You didn't hurt MY feeling. You can't hurt my feelings.
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:18 PM
Aug 2015

I am glad I was able to help you get at least 1/2 way to the truth.
I know that can be a painful process for hard core partisans,
but I am delighted at your movement from an extreme, untrue statement
to one that is closer to the truth. Progress IS possible.
I'm proud of you!

Now, you should further amend your sentence to read,
""They're all law abiding responsible gun owners until SOME of them are not."



flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
7. SOME of them kill 15,000 and wound another 100,000 every year at a cost of $200-260 billion a year.
Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:31 PM
Aug 2015

Nope, I'll stick with "they're all law abiding responsible gun owners until they'er not". 'Cause I'm right and you're not.

You poor delicate flower . . .

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
8. Like everything else including drivers and drinkers,
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:12 PM
Aug 2015

...some are responsible; a few are not.
We have absolutely no way of knowing what the ratio is,
since responsible gun owners are never in the news or on TV, but the one Rambo Asshole is.

I would guess that there are more guns in this little Arkansas County than most places in the USA including urban areas,
and ZOUNDS..... no murders or even gun "accidents" for over the decade I have been with Fire & Rescue here.

I like the failed attempted insult you closed with...the "delicate flower" thing.
Will you please address me as such in any future posts? Please?

Flowers are kind of a thing with me.
I can show you some photos if you like.
My flower photos have been published in National magazines.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
9. Can't speak to your one county but Arkansas is the ninth most deadly
Wed Aug 26, 2015, 11:26 AM
Aug 2015

state in the union. (2013 numbers)

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