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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 07:09 PM Jul 2015

The tragic hypocrisy of "shall issue".

Walmart, the largest gun seller in the US will not sell a gun to anyone that can't pass the two minute NICS check fist time around. Walmart does not recognize the three day 'proceed' provision of the Brady background check law. The truth is that no gun dealer is required to sell a gun to anyone who passes the NICS background check. A dealer can refuse to sell for any reason or no reason at all.

BUT a local law enforcement officer MUST issue a concealed carry permit to anyone who passes the NICS check regardless of what that LEO knows about the applicant. A history public intoxication is not a disqualifier although it indicates a lack of personal responsibility, impulse control and is closely linked to gun violence. So even though the LEO has arrested the applicant repeatedly for PI the license still MUST be issued.

Such is the legacy of 'shall issue' laws pushed by the NRA and authored by ALEC.

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The tragic hypocrisy of "shall issue". (Original Post) flamin lib Jul 2015 OP
On "shall issue." Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #1
Everything you wish for in the first paragraph flamin lib Aug 2015 #2
This is not universally true of Shall Issue laws, in all states. WA is 'Shall Issue', but AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #3
 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
1. On "shall issue."
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:58 PM
Aug 2015

While I don't oppose "shall issue" systems (I suspect you're unsurprised by that... ), I'd like to see the requirements for the permit significantly tightened. Nope, I'm not a "constitutional carry" advocate.* I'd like to see some additional criteria added to the list of things that would disqualify an applicant: any kind of violent crime (even misdemeanors), DUI/PI (although I would be receptive to exemptions granted on completion of a certified substance abuse program), any issuance of a restraining order for domestic violence (many states already do this), being under treatment for certain mental health conditions, and more.

I'd like to see a requirement for a genuine demonstration of competency; some states have NO such requirement, others have standards that don't go much beyond a "warm body" test. Basically, I'd like to see an indication that the applicant is someone who spends some real time at the range on a regular basis...the field test shouldn't be easy in terms of marksmanship, and should have a "zero tolerance" policy in terms of any sort of unsafe gun handling. Someone who goes shooting once a year isn't someone I think should be regularly carrying in public. Of course, I also think a driver's license should be a lot harder to get, so maybe it's just me.

Choosing to arm one's self is a matter that should be treated as one of life and death...because that's precisely what it is. A cavalier approach is completely unacceptable.

*Yes, I understand that no-permit CCW has always worked just fine in Vermont...but Vermont is hardly a typical US state in so very many aspects.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
2. Everything you wish for in the first paragraph
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 10:32 AM
Aug 2015

would be accommodated by 'may issue'.

It's time to put human intervention back into the system.

Is there the possibility some LEO would decline an otherwise deserving citizen? Yeah, but with the current 'give 'em a gun' approach we have now there are a LOT of people with guns that are disaster waiting to happen and/or happening.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
3. This is not universally true of Shall Issue laws, in all states. WA is 'Shall Issue', but
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:44 AM
Aug 2015

there is more than just a NICS check. There's a state AND FBI fingerprint background check. FBI for major crimes, state for the 'petty' or pending case stuff that gets logged in the State Patrol database.

It's a Shall Issue state, but only if you pass the background check, and it's not a NICS check.

I realize other states may vary, and that informs things like reciprocity between states.
Public intoxication varies. I know 5 DUI's is a automatic felony in my state, but I was not able to determine easily if any other drunk/disorderly, or PI, or similar are state felonies. One had a potential penalty of 1 year in jail, which suggests it's classed as a felony, but the state website didn't say for sure. (Most but not all misdemeanors cap out at 90 days max)

I know all forms of Domestic Violence, drunk or not, instant automatic disqualifier, and that disqualification may live in the State Patrol database rather than the FBI.

That's why it's critical that a full background check go through both FBI and State db's.

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