Women Olympic champions "too fat"?

[eridani]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fat-fit-over-women-athletes-193539328--spt.html

American weightlifter Holley Mangold tips the scales at 346 pounds (157 kilograms) and she is proud of being the heaviest woman at the London Olympics.

Mangold, 22, who competed in the women's 75 kilogram-plus division, is one of growing number of women athletes speaking out at their frustration with the public scrutiny of their body size and image rather than their fitness and skills.

At the 2012 Olympics, a list of top female athletes have hit back at critics who have called them fat including British heptathlon champion Jessica Ennis, Australian swimmer Liesel Jones, and the Brazilian women's soccer team.

For Mangold, her weight is a something to be proud of.

<snip>

British swimmer Rebecca Adlington, who won two bronze medals at London, told reporters she was going to avoid reading Twitter comments during the Olympics because so many were insults about her appearance.

The Brazilian women's soccer team were called "a bit heavy" by the coach of the Cameroon team after the South Americans won their game against the African nation 5-0.

[Moltisanti]

1. her BMI is 52.6.. that is very unhealthy...

BMI Categories:

Normal weight = 18.5-24.9
Overweight = 25-29.9
Obesity = BMI of 30 or greater

Your Body Mass Index


The Height you entered is 5 feet, 8 inches. The Weight you entered is 346 pounds.


Your Calculated BMI is: 52.6

[Pholus]

4. Just imagine how good a lifter Mangold would be if only

Last edited Mon Aug 6, 2012, 09:14 AM - Edit history (1)

she weighed 160 pounds so her BMI was in the normal range.

I mean given that BMI is the end-all-be-all of statistics, it's clear she could
OBVIOUSLY increase her personal record on the combined snatch and clean-and-jerk
to be greater than 562 pounds!

[rocktivity]

11. The silver medal winner in Mangold's wieght class fits that description

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12559064#post9


rocktivity

[Pholus]

19. Um.....no.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=9107

[hifiguy]

14. Heavyweight weight lifters are often very large people

whether male or female. Vasily Alexeyev, one of the greatest ever, was not a bodybuilder type. He looked sort of like a plumber:



Whatever works to get the job done.

And anyone who thinks Jessica Ennis is fat is nuts.

The athletes' accomplishments speak far more loudly than Twitter goofballs ever will.

[braddy]

32. It is a rare plumber who is fat, I can't think of any, at least in the service and repair field.

Plumbers do much of their work under houses and in attics, and under sinks. Fat people cannot get under most houses, many of which only have a foot or so of clearance.

[seabeyond]

35. true that. i am thinking to three i have used. one regularly. nt

[MADem]

27. Did anyone do a water test on her?

Those measurements by height/weight are absolute, averaged, one-size-fits-no one- bullshit, you know. Or maybe you don't.

The water displacement tests are more accurate, more accurate even than calipers or tape. Just saying.

I'll bet her BMI is much, much lower. Under 30, for sure.

[GaYellowDawg]

2. There are some mighty stupid critics out there.

OK, first of all, these are athletes. They've accomplished a great deal more than virtually all of their critics. This is supposed to be an athletics competition, not a beauty pageant. As far as Holly Mangold goes, you have to be stout to be a weightlifter. I have no idea why - but apparently it helps.

Someone was calling Jessica Ennis fat? This Jessica Ennis?


Liesel Jones? Fat? This Liesel Jones?


Rebecca Adlington? Fat? This Rebecca Adlington?


Brazilian women's soccer team?
http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2012/07/26/1226435/363218-london-olympics-soccer-women.

I think Liesel Jones knows why all these critics are trying to insult her figure:


and I can just about guarantee that those critics wouldn't be in their league.

On edit: and this is the Zoe Smith that some were calling fat:
http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article7987745.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/Zoe+Smith

Calling any of these women overweight, with the exception of Mangold, is absolutely crazy. I'm fat (lost 35 pounds though) and I've often bemoaned how it's the ultimate sin in dating. But wow, if I had a six pack like Jessica Ennis, I'd be swamped with dates, and somehow her appearance is found lacking? Holy crap, do women ever have it tougher than men. If someone who looks like Ennis has her looks questioned - what the hell do people expect out of women? It's got to be absolutely heartbreaking and discouraging for y'all. Please let me apologize on behalf of my apparently stupid gender.

[redqueen]

7. "Fat" wasn't the insult of choice for every athlete.

The issue isn't just that some were criticized for their weight, it's the usual unreasonable focus on women's appearance.

[GaYellowDawg]

22. Noted.

Hence my sentence This is supposed to be an athletics competition, not a beauty pageant.

I put the pictures in to demonstrate how unreasonable the critics actually were.

[redqueen]

25. Yep, apologies.

I added that comment as a response to the latest post showing that some of the athletes mentioned weren't fat, after seeing several comments stating that the insult wasn't accurate. I should have posted it as a reply to the OP. Sorry about that.

[GaYellowDawg]

33. Please don't apologize

The point that judging appearances has no place in the Olympics is one that can't be made too often.

[rocktivity]

10. Here's the Brazilian women's soccer team

half of them are so fat they can't even stand upright!




rocktivity

[eridani]

18. Note that swimmers have more limb fat than most athletes

This is a huge advantage for bouyancy in water.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Now hold on minute...

This is the Rebecca Adlington someone's calling "fat"?



No starving sylph she, nor Ennis nor Jones, but this is pure spite and envy.

Mangold is kinda hefty, but if she's happy and she wins the medals it's nobody's damn business.

Olympic sports require incredible training and you get a very specialized body where appearance isn't the point. But, so does dance, and if it was as obsessively viewed as the Olympics, we'd have complaints from the ignorant about ballerinas-- "They can't be graceful with those legs..."

[Pholus]

5. Actually Mangold's got a comeback for people worried about her appearance...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/magazine/shes-350-pounds-and-olympics-bound.html?_r=1

“I get a lot of Creepy McCreepersons interested in me because I’m so big it’s not normal, it’s like a fetish,”

[rocktivity]

6. Too fat for what? And are male athletes held to the same standard?

Last edited Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:01 PM - Edit history (3)

Here's Reese Hoffa, an American who just won a bronze medal for the shot putt. at 5-11 and 315 pounds, his BMI is 43.9. Is anybody criticizing him?




rocktivity

[redqueen]

8. No, male athletes are not held to the same standard.

Nor are males in general.

This is the consequence of rampant objectification of women. If it was done as much to men as it is to women (500% more often) we *might* start seeing males being treated the same way.

[rocktivity]

9. Here's a pic of the winners of Mangold's weightlifting class (she finished 10th)

Gold: 5-9, 293 lbs, 43.3 bmi (obese)
Silver: 5-10, 165 lbs, 23.7 bmi (healthy weight range)
Bronze: 5-8, 196 lbs, 29.8 bmi (overweight)

Which just goes to show you that weightlifters don't HAVE to be flabby to be effective.


rocktivity

[redqueen]

12. Whether or not they are actually fat, or whether they have an 'excuse' to be fat...

is really not the point.

[seabeyond]

13. who cares? what does that have to do with what they do? they are not on the block

judging appearance. they are there for what they accomplish.

so

who cares?

[Pholus]

15. One of your stats, is not like the others, one of your stats, is not the same....

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which one. Hint: It's the central thesis of the post. But what's a 60 pound mistake....

http://www.london2012.com/athlete/zhou-lulu-1067584/

http://www.london2012.com/athlete/kashirina-tatiana-1013584/

http://www.london2012.com/athlete/khurshudyan-hripsime-1027756/

There definitely is some lost credibility on this one.

[seabeyond]

16. so the ones that won the gold and silver were the most overweight? sounds like it encourages

the women to put some weight on to win. lol

not that i really give a fuck, cause like i say, it is about what they do. not here to look "pretty" for the guys.

[Pholus]

17. No, but the chutzpah is a bit much.

Anyone who has seriously lifted weights knows how idiotic the BMI is. Statistically it is called a "heuristic proxy" which means you use it when you're too lazy or inept to do the body fat calculation the right way. Too many hidden variables to take it as anything more than a rough guess.

I guess it helps a handful of insecure types feel better than themselves as they look around when they can identify anything that marks someone as inferior to them.

[seabeyond]

21. i do know mass muscle weigh a lot more than flabby fat, lol. so cant really go off weight

with the average joe

[rocktivity]

20. I got my stats from elsewhere.

But if the silver medalist is indeed actually 225 lbs, her 32.3 bmi does not take away from my point -- it takes all weight types to make a successful weightlifter. Thanks!


rocktivity

[Pholus]

23. Really. Citation please?

It would be interesting to know what source could have made such a simple error. It needs correction.

By the way 32.3 = obese. Just like 11 of the 13 who competed in that class. Of the other two, one (the bronze medalist) squeaks in barely at a 29.5. With your questionable sources you called her a 29.8 -- either way it's a bad water weight day from obese. The other one actually approaches a "normal" BMI of 26.5 but lifted approximately half the weight of the gold medalist and placed dead last among the contestants.

There was also a 14th entrant who didn't compete or was disqualified. No height was given or readily available in the top few search results but at a weight of 267# we can safely conclude obese unless she was over 6' 7" tall. By the way what genius even thought that men and women should even use the same set of tables?

It might "take all weight types" except not so much in this class apparently. Of course the failure of the BMI has always been obvious when it comes to people with abnormal amounts of muscle. That is why they give it the copout name of being a "heuristic proxy."

Let's consult the Free Dictionary by Farlex to see what that means term by term...

Heuristic = "Of or relating to a usually speculative formulation serving as a guide in the investigation or solution of a problem"

Proxy = The authority to act for another. (have to add that it statistically means there are better variables, but we'll just use this one because it's convenient and hope that correlation saves us -- which it doesn't all the time)

It's not many statistics that get a name that imply they're bullshit using two different words....that's actually kind of impressive when you think about it...

[rocktivity]

28. Would you believe NBC.com itself?

http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=kashirina-tatiana-1013584/index.html


rocktivity

[Pholus]

29. Sadly I should have. I apologize for the contempt I was showing.

You didn't give a source in two mentions so I concluded it was pulled out of the air.

I don't even look to U.S. media for any numbers anymore for exactly that reason. They NEVER seem to double check their data. It's also why I read the Economist for news these days. I may not agree with their politics, but they aren't afraid to show the data leading to the story.

Again, very, very sorry. The BMI still sucks though...

[ismnotwasm]

24. These type of topics is why I still enjoy swearing

The fact that this is even a multinational discussion causes my vocabulary to leave me.

These are Olympic champions, at the physical peak of their performance, not the 'lets look like heroin addicts' look used for runway models.

[redqueen]

26. Just another triumph of third wave feminism I guess.

The sexier they are, the better, right? All these critics are really only trying to help them reach their maximum potential powerfulness! Through sex appeal!

[DonCoquixote]

30. The fact is

A lot of "men" cannot get used to the fact that they can get deep sixed by some of these ladies.

[GaYellowDawg]

34. Those men are dumb, LOL

There's not a single thing that I do that's not strictly biological that some woman somewhere can't do a hell of a lot better. For that matter, there are a lot of things I like to do that many women in many places can do a hell of a lot better. And you know what? Doesn't threaten me in the least.

[seabeyond]

36. when son younger he would be upset that he had friends that were better than him in sport. literally

pissed.

i didnt push in sports with my kids. the kids would play a little but not a lot of time and effort.

no empathy on my part. the kids put the time and effort, why would you expect to be better. get your ass out there and do what they are doing, then we will talk.

i am with yellowdawg. what silly men would be bothered about that.

oh, btw, son grew up, has his sport and gets what it is to earn his position thru work.

[unblock]

31. Somehow "fat" doesn't go with "qualified for the Olympics"

These are people in top notch physical condition.

The only valid aesthetic critique would be "too muscular".

"too fat" is beyond sexism, it's just plain stupid.

[One_Life_To_Give]

37. Probably less fat than guys half her size

World class athletes have some of the lowest body fat percentages of anyone. Women at 14% body fat overweight? or too fat? Compared to what males pushing obesity? Train like a world class athlete, have genetics that are conducive to it and end up looking the part. It's called being Human.