The Doctor. Has been blocked from the group

[boston bean]

for insinuating that women in this group have a "crusader complex", because we notice instances of sexism of misogyny on DU where he feels there is none. And we didn't feel the need to educate him in our own group and give into his deman to provide specific instances that he was too lazy to go find himself.

In this post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=5184

And then going into the Meta Forum three days later to carry on with the BS.

Anyone have an issue with this?

I'm thoroughly disgusted by the accusation propagated that people who can detect misogyny and sexism are imagining it due to some imagined victimhood the aggressor paints on that canvas, and further extrapolate the theory that it's because they cannot separate their "victimhood" from reality.

Many oppressed groups have been given this label by their oppressor. To paint themselves (the oppressor) as the victim.

In this day and age, many use it against palestinians. It use to be used against jewish people but instead was called the "holocaust complex". It's a disgusting theory.

[seabeyond]

1. yes... i had that conversation with the poster that i am who i am because of my past

Last edited Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)

when i explained i had a wonderful up bringing and maybe that is why i recognize it, i was told i am in denial. and if i would just admit about my abuse or whatever i could be healed. when i reiterated that i had no "events" in my life, the posts got pretty damn angry at my denial.

but... wth,

that is fine. i dont care. i really do not care... any more.

[Voice for Peace]

18. my daughter is still trying to educate me

I had a crappy upbringing, and never noticed.

My mother taught me that one day I would meet a nice man
who would take care of me. My family (male) on her side was
full of arrogant sexual abusers who to this day are protected
and defended by the women. And they're all democrats, I
will add.

So I'm really thick when it comes to sexism. Though my
daughter has done a good job of pointing out a lot of my
learned acceptance of it.

Edit to add: I was sexually abused as a child for many years,
and again in long-term relationships -- as I'm sure other women
here were. It took me a very very very long time to learn to
feel again; and then I began to feel the anger. Up until that
time, I rationalized the abuse, I forgave, I understood my abuser;
I accepted that I had no worth.

Finally getting in touch with the outrage was helpful for me.
Knowing other women who were outraged on my behalf, when
I didn't have the strength, was life saving. Having a powerful
feminist daughter is a gift.

[Little Star]

21. I love your post because it sounds much like how I came to feminism understanding...

First I had to work my way through the denial even when I had a sledge hammer inches from my head. Yep, thank god the cops were called for me and they actually saved my life.

[LiberalLoner]

49. I am glad you are both in a safe place in

Life now. I was abused too. I thank the Light every day i am finally safe.

[hlthe2b]

50. OMG...

thank heavens for those cops... my, oh, my...

[seabeyond]

26. your post gave me chills. literally

chills still there. what a beautiful post, even in its ugly. it deserves its own thread. for ALL women.

i thank my father, the more educated i become, and the more stories i hear, for all he gave me by simply being.... a good man. all that it has given me in life. site to know and expect from a man. nothing less. and i hold firmly that men with character way way outweight the not so good, or messed up man. cause these men have generally been screwed by society, too. they have a story, too. not excusing, but a reality.

i have only had men of character and boys around me. that would be all i allowed around me. and for whatever reason, a lot of luck, too. i am not going to be the one to point the finger and blame men, or ALL men. i would be selling out all those men and boys i love.

your post is right on. it is the message that needs to be heard. and you are right, women that have been abused generally see it as the way love is shown and that it is a norm. the doctor is fuckin way off on his analysis.

[hlthe2b]

51. re: "Having a powerful feminist daughter is a gift.

Now that is a wonderful statement. Good on you and I'm happy you are here.

[eridani]

53. Same here. I think it's typical of many feminists

Our parents thought we could do and be anything, and then we left home and found out that the rest of the world did not agree.

[ZombieHorde]

2. I think some people enjoy antagonizing feminists here on DU,

and then acting shocked and dismayed when the antagonizing is returned.

[WingDinger]

3. I have heard that, and would like to see evidence.

Find mean spirited misogyny, that is left for spite by jury. ALLLLLLLLL instances of it, were hidden. I have heard a word, or phrase, NOT intended to harm. Nowhere have I seen misogyny tolerated. Shouldnt those making the charge, in ESSENCE, calling out DU posters as jerks, have the burden at LEAST, of proof? There is plenty of misogyny in the real world, this aint it.

[boston bean]

6. I think telling women that they are basically too hysterical to have a valid opinion

because of the abuse they've taken, to really have a valid opinion, is enough of an example.

No?

[boston bean]

10. Old and In the Way who was blocked also thought members here had persecution complexes.

It's a recurring theme.

[seabeyond]

11. except

winger has a history of being open minded and listening, interacting and contributing.

[agent46]

12. The "Doctor"

Has a small cultlike following here on DU. He's a charlatan who considers himself an expert at "consciousness" and makes a practice of psychoanalyzing people who call him on his b.s. He's an ass.

[seabeyond]

14. ha haha

i had the feeling when he wanted to do me. lol

thanks.

[boston bean]

36. seabeyond, bad on you for replying to agent.

Ok, electricmonk, I hope this makes it all better. have I taken enough responsibility for everyones words here in HoF.

I've done what you've asked. I have dealt with it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=115070

[seabeyond]

37. ya, well, i thought about that. but when we are being psychoanalyzed then i figure

what we think should be heard, surely? or do we get a victorian treatment for all our hysteria, without having a voice?

[boston bean]

34. Hi Agent, I am being challenged in Meta for words you wrote here that a jury

left standing. If you would like to defend yourself you should go read this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240115053

see electricmonk at reply #10.

[hue]

42. Sounds like, "pick up my socks because I'm too lazy to pick them up myself,"

I am also surprised at some of the misogynist attitudes on this forum--but it's everywhere!

[hlthe2b]

7. Updated reply in post #35

Last edited Sat Jun 23, 2012, 07:59 PM - Edit history (1)

[seabeyond]

9. going around calling women dworkinnites thru out forums is simply to shut a woman up

the call outs of this forum and me specifically is purely to shut me and us up.

this is bottomline sexism at its very best. a very small group of women that dare to challenge the patriarchy or male privilege continually being attacked on a regular bases, with all kinds of excuses and validation, but nor real justification but to .... shut women up. and a board that allows it. that is a simple one. i am not going to bring out particular ones. switch it around to continued harassment of blacks or gays. what is that if not harassment?

oh, juror calling me a bitchy snot rocket and and an OP of people gigglilng. then twice on duzy.

to humiliate and shut up

that is without any effort and a generalization and not real specific but it is the challenge to the patriarchy that is the issue. adn that is about behavior on du. a mentality. it is not actual posting.

[boston bean]

13. Of a very small vocal group sea. Not all of DU are like that. As we know.

We have the most active feminist group on DU. That's nothing to snarf at. Although i can't help but think they account for most of our view count on the threads. We are just to danged interesting, I guess.

We get trotted out to Meta every day, by two or three peeps a day. It's GREAT! NOT. Who the fuck would want that.

And we're the aggressors???? NO!

[seabeyond]

15. thank you. i dont want anyone to believe for a moment that i think it is all du. SMALL

it most certainly is a small vocal group. i learned about mobbing. it is fascinating. i am going to do more research. i didnt find the specific article i wanted.

but, i recognize and feel better that it is far from the whole of du. thank you. that is why i put up the threads with the recommendations and votes to knock the misogyny off. that is a good thing to remember.

And we're the aggressors???? NO!

[LiberalLoner]

17. It's interesting, went to look at the Meta thread

and found several names I was familiar with, had tangled with before and found their views differed wildly from my own. I found some of the things they said triggered stuff that was said to me by my family of origin, discounting my feelings and perceptions. Not a respectful disagreement, more of a personal attack, "you're crazy" kind of thing. I've blocked a few.

[boston bean]

19. Just the very action of posting ad infinitum how you can't tolerate a group of feminists on DU

is indicative of misogyny and sexism.

Continually attacking self described feminists, telling them they are not in reality, that they are wrong about everything, is... well call it what you will.

[Little Star]

22. Do you read the same DU that I do?

[hlthe2b]

35. After considerable back and forth discussion with WingDinger, I have agreed to unblock him

WD has acknowledged some of the areas of dispute, including the presence of some instances of misogyny on DU--and come to a mutually acceptable agreement for adopting a less confrontational means of expressing disagreement with the group that encourages discussion.

In the spirit of that agreement and his previous expressions of support for this group, I welcome him back.

[seabeyond]

38. yea, me too. love me some winger. nt

[boston bean]

39. here here! Thank you hlthe2b! And WingDinger! Glad to hear it!

[hlthe2b]

4. well, since he claims I told him to do so....

Last edited Sat Jun 23, 2012, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

I'd be hard-pressed to disagree.

I guess if any believe that then I should now be referred to as "The Therapist".....


In all seriousness, he was given considerable benefit of the doubt because he was civil in his earlier appearance in HOF, but this is clearly beyond the pale.

[LiberalLoner]

5. Bravissima for your decision! He had nothing but ill intent towards this forum and all of us.

I for one am very glad he is blocked!

[Little Star]

16. Bingo!

[hue]

44. I am also!! n/t

[sufrommich]

20. I have no problem with the block. These obsessive

Meta threads are escalating their vilification of HoF to a sickening level, here's one comparing us to nazi's:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240115009#post7


Where are the admins ? Can anyone imagine these threads passing muster if they were about any other safe haven group?

[boston bean]

23. jorno67 deleted his reference to us as the SS

that post you link to was a sarcastic response to jono67.

[sufrommich]

24. My apologies to the poster then. The fact that

someone compared us to Nazis gives me the willies.It's getting to be a regular "2 minutes of hate" exercise in Meta.

[boston bean]

27. it's all just so tiring and predictable.

No matter how we respond to the attacks they do not let up.

What does that tell you. They really don't like a group of feminists. I don't know why that is acceptable on a progressive board dedicated to electing democrats.

[sufrommich]

28. It's an eye opener, that's for sure.

[seabeyond]

29. yes. but, you know what? i have actually become immune to it all. literally

who would of thunk... the surprise and freedom of truly just not caring anymore cause they are never gonna stop. and it really does not bother me even a little anymore. blatant lies? no challenges? whatever. lol

[Texasgal]

30. You shouldn't have to be immune..

That's what really sucks about all of this.

I'm beyond disgusted by it all.

[seabeyond]

31. ya, well...

being one that is sensitive to others, lol, i tend to care. i went into the latest one and it was so fuckin stupid. the, just sure i alerted. then, just sure i am bothered about what i had posted that had been called out for the umpteenth time. then, just sure i would go find the stupid ass thread and delete the post that had been link to for the umpteenth time, lol.

all the while i am thinking, totally stupid. what a waste of time and energy, and much need thought process lost. poof.

[Texasgal]

32. you are so good Sea..

Strong and smart. I wish I had your grace and attitude!

DU has really shocked me this time, I know I shouldn't be surprised... but the venom and the outright nastiness caught me off guard!

You are loved right here in Hof, always.

[seabeyond]

33. ha... lol

we are all kinds of things to different people. fun how that works.

thanks, woman. i always appreciate you

[laconicsax]

48. It's acceptible because this isn't a progressive board.

[DLevine]

56. Yes, that was me responding sarcastically to the SS comparison.

There is a lot of misogyny on DU. Why it is tolerated by the administrators, I haven't a clue.

[seabeyond]

58. i appreciate and value your voice. nt

[DLevine]

59. I admit to being a little skittish about posting.

I was raped as a teenager, and I have PTSD. I try to avoid this stuff, the flamefests, just to protect myself. But really, it is so sad the hateful things that are said on this website by people who are supposed to be on our side.

[seabeyond]

62. ah, woman. i hear ya.

i get why so many women and even men, dont want to play in the trash. it is hard. and hurtful. that is ok.

that is why, on the two threads addressing this, that had both recommend and votes tells us what a lot of people are thinking, yet not being a part of.

that just makes your voice more strong when you do speak out, though

pick your battles.

[sufrommich]

60. I'm glad I get this chance to apologize to you

personally. Please accept my apologies,sometimes it's hard to tell the sarcasm from the serious.

[DLevine]

61. No need to apologize, but thanks. We are on the same team.

Actually, I don't know how to use the sarcasm thingy. That's why I didn't use it!

[seabeyond]

63. ha ha ha

that is so funny. i certainly can relate. i dont know how to do so many computer things.

type out sarcasm and have a colon in front and behind the word.

i dont know how to do the vomit though. so i just say, vomit.

[DLevine]

65. Thanks. I will remember that. n/t

[PassingFair]

55. That HAS to be sarcasm.

It's a witch hunt, plain and simple.

Most of us either fall into the "crone" category, or we were raised (or learned)
to consider ourselves PEOPLE first, and incidentally a gender as well.

That means we don't play their games.

If we don't play their games, then they don't have any chance of "winning".

That makes us invisible at best, and feared at worst.

Now go on back to your bathrooms and make yourselves purty.

Or ELSE.

[seabeyond]

57. If we don't play their games, then they don't have any chance of "winning".

That makes us invisible at best, and feared at worst.

woman... this should be pinned. you hit it right on the mark. this is very good. and always good to see you jump in this forum

[PassingFair]

64. It's gotten pretty blatant lately.

Dragging us out into meta to be symbolically burned.


That's not working very well, so they come here to disrupt
so they can claim that we are persecuting them.

If it weren't so skeevy, it would be funny.

[seabeyond]

66. true, all that. nt

[Texasgal]

25. I trust my hosts completely.

I have no problem with this block.

Thank you for working hard and doing all the dirty work so that we can have a small slice of heaven. :hugs:

[boston bean]

40. .

[hlthe2b]

41. ditto on that...

[gaspee]

43. I'm sure some of DU

think there is no misogyny on DU. Just read the Erin Burnett thread. That right there should be all the proof one needs. But many do not get it and think we are all about victimhood. Me, I'd like to raise consciousness so they get it without having it pointed out to them.

Yeah. Right.

It is in their best interest to pretend not to get it.

Good riddance, I say. There's probably 1000 others just like him here on DU. Too bad they can't all be banned.

[seabeyond]

45. found it.

or is it an easy find on gd?

thanks

and of course, goes without saying, lol, i agree with your post

[TorchTheWitch]

46. person in question was already on my ignore list anyway

I've got the most unbearable misogynists there. Not at all surprised he was one of the ones to come try to stir crap here.

[seabeyond]

47. ah, man....

you had to sit up to type this. lol. now that we know, i am going to be so thrilled with the effort you put into each of your posts.

ya. people like to pretend. but, we have been here for years. not an easy one to hide after that.

[NYC_SKP]

52. Did DU member "The Doctor" post that or did JTFrog?

I am so confused, but the post has a blockquote suggesting it was posted by a different member.

[BlueIris]

54. Hosts here do not need to justify their blocks.

Especially not WRT extreme anti-feminists or repeat disruptors.

But I'm not sure we need to have individual threads to discuss the blocks.

Personally, I'd like to see a lot more blocks. There are still far too many people showing up here or in Meta just to hurl insults and otherwise disrupt. Hosts should not feel they must accommodate these posters.

[Broderick]

67. agree

Hosts here do not need to justify their blocks.

[Hatchling]

68. No, they don't.

But I am very glad they lay out exactly why someone is blocked. I think defining the offenses is an important part of education. It has often opened my mind to things that I just accept because "that's the way things are".