the least. the very least. i get to say, how i want to be treated as a person.

[seabeyond]

something so archaic, so very stupid and intrusive, so insultingly dominance?, i am told by my brother that when my 22 yr old niece brought her new BF for dinner, he was gonna "drill" him.

this 54 yr old man, that has lived in a fucked up life for a couple three decades now and dependent on us women in all manners, including financially for his very survival, for decades, has a male "right" over us three women. his 26 yr old daughter, his niece and his sister.

i love him unconditionally, with boundaries.

a family of alcoholic haze of the extremes in life.

all my men are struggling so. trying to figure out what their role is in todays world, because the old john wayne is literally making us women sick. lol. they do not get it, yet the men feel us women simply not playing this game any more.

i have spent the last two decades playing the surrogate mother for so many in this part of my family. willingly, because i love each and every one. i was willing for the last two decades. i am also, done today. we are literally handing it over to my 26 yr old niece. she was raised by two drunk parents. violence and abuse a part of her life. a world of extreme highs and lows. she had her period of total miss up, and out of control. she also said to me that she had every reason to be so angry, at that time in her life. damn straight she did.

she has two brothers she literally raised cause her parents were not capable. and thru her teens, she took over the finance and parenting.

she is so damn strong. and at 26, two kids and single. she stands up for herself. she insists in creating a life of security in all ways, with her family of two drunk parents and her two brothers, that are floundering, yet going thru the same thing she did, at that age. still parenting them.

and another niece that has her own story, trying like shit to figure things out at 22. but what she knows, is she has created such strong boundaries, in todays world, what she will allow in her life.

yet. when my brother tells me, he is going to drill this 26 yr old man, "his intentions toward a 22 yr old woman". i am telling you, how do i sit there and say nothing. after my mouth drops at his audacity of stupid.

ya ya ya. we have our roles. we are all helpless, and must be dependent on the men in our lives to protect us from their illusionary macho world, while we do the reality. it is a game. to make men feel good. useful. and though us women look at each other, and say for real? we are suppose to play helpless.

it just is not happening anymore.

and the men are so angry that we will not play. and just the mere audacity i have, to say, no. stop. not playing this.

the anger.

[SheilaT]

1. Be sure to tell your brother

the essence of what you've said here. Make it clear he has no ownership of the women in the family, and make that clear to the women also. If you don't put up with that bullshit, it won't happen as easily.

I'm in awe of your willingness to love and keep the dysfunctional members of your family close.

[seabeyond]

4. we have been working on this for a couple years, lol.

Last edited Fri Dec 26, 2014, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

two sons, two nieces, two nephews all stepping into adulthood with baggage from childhood.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. If everyone knows this is scheduled to happen,

why not pre-emptively let the jerk know he's being a jerk? Can you tell him that this behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated?

Given his dependent situation, he's not exactly in a position of power here.

[seabeyond]

3. the volatility of the drunk, that we love.

yes. i said something. and that does make me a bitch, you know. of course i said something. as gently as i could. making clear the boundary, with very few words. even respectfully.

yes i understand my role, as the oldest woman, with a niece sitting by me. and my two struggling nephews, adopting their fathers role.

you understand the loud demand we get from the men we love, that we are not to make a simple statement, that we women really do not buy into the role, they demand we live?

[Jackpine Radical]

5. You are being held hostage

by an out-of-control drunken bully. You have no obligation to put up with this.

Incidentally, I do suspect that much of his behavior arises from a rather pathetic effort to compensate for the shame he feels for his dependencies (both on his family and his alcohol).

At some point you might consider whether you're actually doing him any good in the long run by enabling his actions.

[seabeyond]

6. i hear you on all counts.

at this point, he is really very sad, and yes.... compensating hard ass, for atonement. hence, the women in his life's understanding of the why.

our ability and need to create boundary.

i hear ya.

this is not really for me and my family. we women, as i have said, have been doing this for decades, and we will continue. priorities set.

that is cool. we can do it. but, the story was more for others to understand the constant role playing being demanded of us. and our ever growing voice saying no. creating a lot of anger in our men.

my mother died about two decades ago. that was when this job was handed to me.

we all know it well,

my oldest brother and my father on the other hand are reconciling that .... their role of protector and white knight/john wayne is going to the wayside as the women in our two generations are strong, smart, responsible and the go to.

they too, are adjusting their views, and their role that they played.

i am using my personal experience, to discuss feminists ideas and thoughts.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. I'm on your side in this struggle for societal change.

For me, the concept of patriarchy encapsulates much that is wrong with our society. Its demands have the effect of twisting people into horrible caricatures of fully functioning human beings.

Long ago, when I was a young psych grad student fresh out of Vietnam, I found myself most drawn to that portion of psychology that has to do with human mental and emotional growth, creativity, curiosity as a motive, etc. However, the world showed little interest in supporting me in seeking out and nurturing the best in humanity, so I ended up having to refocus myself as a clinician.

[seabeyond]

8. I'm on your side in this struggle for societal change.

i know you are jack. and you allowed me to more focus what i was saying. thank you.

i hear ya on the rest.

[niyad]

9. good for you, sea, to put a stop to this nonsense.

[seabeyond]

10. thank you, niyad.

hoping all is well in your part of the world....



* disclaimer because of a broken leg picture... these are not my feet. lol

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. Lol

At the disclaimer and the reference.

[DonCoquixote]

11. where politics and family collide

You see, there are people, mostly men, who feel life revolves around them. Our country's lovely Calvinist work ethic, where God shows his love to rich people because they were the "elect" whom God chose regardless of conduct, infected this country to the point where people can be utter psychopaths, but still feel that they are the entitled, the good people, and that everybody else is put there my God to be nothing but a means to their ends. It is why we embraces slavery, after all, those slaves were made Christian by us, right? It ios why despite Lincoln, we still have ways of slavery here, and the oligrachs in Beverly Hills and Park Avenue still feel that we should be hopnored that they abuse us, because that is the only reason God made us for. Of course, when you are at a certain level of psychopathy, you know that you can just sit on your ass, clog the gears, and know that the people you consider property will have to help you, because society favors them, and will allow them to sink the whole damned ship. You wind up having to feed them a loaf, just to get a crumb, and they will look at you with a straight face and say "You better thank me for that fucking crumb you fat pig!"

Of course, that sentiment is the conservative movement, which owns the elephant, and sadly, has dug deep into the donkey. It is the audicity of stupid, as you put it, but it is not stupid in terms of low brainpower, it is the willing stupid that says "I want what I want and I will force you to give it to me!" the sort that is willing to dig itself stright to Hell because it thinks that when they get to Hell, they will pull the same damn shit on the Devil! It reminds me when I worked for the Department of Corrections, where many of the people like this borther you wrote about end up. What was sad is that, even though they were locked up, they still were carrying on the same stupid shit that got them locked up, and had not one whit of insight. Imagine hearing a Rapist cry because he got raped in the cell, and then the next wekk go ahead an rape the fresh meat that arrived just to prove his manhood, and brag about it! Of course, in Jail, people can be labeled, whereas on the outside, the successful psychos, the Rush Limbaughs, the Jeb Bushes, the Bill Cosbys, know damned well that society will not hinder them, because in order to convict them society will need to convict itself, and no way the little boys who run socoety will aloow that. This relative of yours is like them, he knows that you are too good a person to tell him to get the fuck out, and that even if you do, he can do so much damage to your mind that he thinks you will limp back to him. All I can say to that is, if it ever gets to the point where he is going to crash you into the rocks to feed his disease, don't. No love, no blood, gives him the right to do that!

Thank you as usual for posting.

[seabeyond]

14. outstanding first paragraph of insight.

Last edited Sat Dec 27, 2014, 03:19 PM - Edit history (1)

(i also talked about this on fb, from a different angle. du of course, the more political spirit of it, and elsewhere more spiritual/philosophical in how we create. or however one would like to express this. the huge fun of all this is how well the two merge. this was so good, i copied and pasted most of this until it got to the personal, for others to read. stimulating more insight, lol)

thank you. this was an excellent read.

[F4lconF16]

12. "it is a game. to make men feel good. useful."

I think this is very true. To many men I have met, control and "manly" posturing are a game. Very few will admit that they think they deserve to control women; yet it is clearly just under the surface in their attitudes and actions. Their interest in power over women comes from a real belief in male superiority, but it doesn't make it into their conscious thoughts.

When they do inevitably attempt to assert control, it is done in a "playful" manner, though the results may be anything but. I think it's the result of years of ingrained cultural mores that are not openly expressed. These men are often abusive and switch between helpless and aggressive (though aggresive isn't the word I am looking for), much like you describe your brother here. They enjoy playing the strong "man of the house", but they are aware that they cannot be that.

I also think that there is some element of compensation, as JackpineRadical mentioned. They're aware of their own inadequecies, but they try to hide it through playing a game of control, asserting their rights as males.

I could easily be way off base in a lot of this, but it's what I've noticed. I hope that your family's situation eases at some point; you're a hell of a strong woman, and you inspire me.

[seabeyond]

15. first, i would like to say...

"it is a game. to make men feel good. useful."

I think this is very true.

of course it is true. there is no way a person could argue it is not true. we live it. we hear it. they say it. verbally. and if that does not work, they beat you up, or murder you.

my brother went into an immediate rant about the problems of women today, mouthing off about their rights, when mens right take precedent. and one of the boys agreed. the other boy.... doesnt live that.

we see this in every part of our society. our entertainment and movies made for the boys and men. out verbal interaction with each other, huge example the net, and the way men address women.

ads

work environment

our schools

religion......

on the fuckin senate floor.

excellent stuff. and now back to reading your post. you are so much fun.

[seabeyond]

16. more....

Their interest in power over women comes from a real belief in male superiority,

and as a society we are insightful enough to see. it is that we see and challenge.

Their interest in power over women comes from a real belief in male superiority, but it doesn't make it into their conscious thoughts.

it is there. it is in conscious thought, i believe. men are pissed cause women say no, now. they are really pissed. and they are using ugly means to get that across. and still women say ... no.

When they do inevitably attempt to assert control, it is done in a "playful" manner, though the results may be anything but. I

and this is why i refuse once, to stay silent. i tell my boys. so many laughs for you all, at my expense. sorry.... i do not see the funny in it.

good post. thanks.

[ismnotwasm]

17. In real life, I don't hold back--(Like I do here)

If anyone, male or female goes "there" I'll go fucking further. In general, I put deliberate brakes on, because I'm not especially sensitive. I have practice and even training on might say, because of what I do for a living. Cross my boundaries--and I let people know what they are, I play fair--and hear my opinion. Cross it too often and you're off the guest list of my life.
My daughters in laws apparently Infer or outright say things about her 5 month old daughter "being fat" What. The. Fuck?

ALL of her breast fed babies have been healthy and round as infants--the baby girl, who, by the way is not around as my daughters boys were-- gets 'special examination'??

I told her stepson who was getting all 'manly' about his little sister and her potential future beau's, that getting a boyfriend was not going to be MY granddaughters life focus. He said a couple other things I had to shoot down. Pretty funny, they're afraid of "offending me" I don't get offended, I get even.

Anyway Who the hell puts this shit on kids? The ones that do-- your time has passed--move the fuck on.

[seabeyond]

18. +1. nt