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theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 02:41 PM Aug 2014

'Those women are more oppressed' is a terrible argument against feminism

It's pretty obvious from reading the comments to Valenti's piece that there are a lot of people who really, really don't get it.

'Those women are more oppressed' is a terrible argument against feminism
Beware the enthusiasm shown by anti-feminists for international women’s rights in a fight about equality at home
Jessica Valenti
theguardian.com, Monday 4 August 2014

When I wrote last week about the #WomenAgainstFeminism campaign, I expected some pushback: arguing that women are a victimized class is a surefire way to rile people up. But the theme of this recent criticism was that American women don’t have legitimate grievances because other women have it worse – and that’s telling.

One gentleman emailed to say he wanted to send me “to a place like Saudi Arabia where women are REALLY disadvantaged and oppressed”. Apparently women don’t have the right to complain about discrimination unless it’s explicit and international.

Interestingly, this guy is not the first to suggest that American women ought to stop working for equality here and exclusively seek to help women abroad. It’s amazing how many international women’s rights enthusiasts come out of the woodwork when you dare suggest that there’s room for women’s rights to advance in the US.

I’m wary of broadly painting Western women as universally less oppressed than others – there are actually many ways the US lags behind other countries on women’s rights, like political representation, corporate power and parental leave – but it is true that American women have more legal rights than women in some other countries. Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where women aren’t allowed to drive. In Afghanistan, a woman can go to jail for leaving her abusive husband. Brazilian women can’t access abortions, nor can women in Ireland. According to a 2011 UN report, 127 countries don’t explicitly outlaw marital rape....

MORE at http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/04/international-women-oppression-feminism


21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'Those women are more oppressed' is a terrible argument against feminism (Original Post) theHandpuppet Aug 2014 OP
Excellent piece. CrispyQ Aug 2014 #1
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #8
Awww.... Sheldon Cooper Aug 2014 #9
Yes, we want nothing more than to be victims BainsBane Aug 2014 #18
look at you. an active troll. i have been seeing name removed, a lot of late, seabeyond Aug 2014 #19
Talk about needing something to whine about. Look in the mirror arcane1 Aug 2014 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #12
Indeed BainsBane Aug 2014 #2
Excellent point theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #3
Excellent, thanks for posting this redqueen Aug 2014 #4
excellent article mercuryblues Aug 2014 #5
you should be happy you are not living in..... seabeyond Aug 2014 #6
You're back! MadrasT Aug 2014 #13
For a little while, anyway seabeyond Aug 2014 #14
did you get booted again? niyad Aug 2014 #21
No doubt gollygee Aug 2014 #7
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #10
Ya. That. And how stupid does that sound. Nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #15
Certainly hasn't kept people from using it a million times theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #16
ah.... the smell of privilege and entitlement. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author dawg Aug 2014 #20

CrispyQ

(36,470 posts)
1. Excellent piece.
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 02:46 PM
Aug 2014
The truth is that in spite of the gains women have made over the years, we are still discriminated against politically and culturally. Women are still attacked, raped, trafficked (sexually and otherwise), paid less than men, objectified, and denied our legal rights to abortion. I mean, we’re still debating access to birth control in the US – so let’s not overstate how good women have it.


Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
9. Awww....
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 09:14 PM
Aug 2014

Welcome back!

If your goal

Is to completely eradicate rape, physical attacks, and trafficking, then I'm afraid "sexism" is never going to end. You can't end it anymore than you can end burglary or speeding.

How convenient for those who always want to be victims and need something to whine about.

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BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
18. Yes, we want nothing more than to be victims
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 10:50 PM
Aug 2014

to go through domestic violence and rape just so we have something to complain about.

Complaining is so much fun, it's way better than having equal rights under the law. Having a SCOTUS justice say you aren't protected by the 14th Amendment is the best? Who doesn't prefer all that to privilege? It's a barrel of laughs.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
19. look at you. an active troll. i have been seeing name removed, a lot of late,
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 10:59 PM
Aug 2014

in this forum. correct?

busy in real day to day, so have not been around much.

Response to arcane1 (Reply #11)

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
2. Indeed
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 03:04 PM
Aug 2014

And that argument against feminism is precisely the one the Cato Institute recently made about poverty: other countries have it worse; Americans have no business complaining. Yet people will denounce that comment while making the same defenses of sexism in the US.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
3. Excellent point
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 03:39 PM
Aug 2014

You're right -- we hear the very same bogus arguments with regards to poverty, racism, et al.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
4. Excellent, thanks for posting this
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 04:50 PM
Aug 2014
But is that really the standard by which people want to judge equality? So long as we have the right to vote, drive, go to school and work, American women should shut our mouths and be grateful to American men for allowing us to have that much?


This should be cut and pasted every time this bullshit 'argument' is used (which is routinely).

mercuryblues

(14,532 posts)
5. excellent article
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 05:07 PM
Aug 2014

only to be outdone by the great comments here.

I am sick of the other women have it so much worse "defense". When I here that I can't help but consider the flip side of the coin. Those countries the men have the right to rape, beat and determine what a woman can and can not do. It implies men have it better in other countries because they can treat woman however they wish, by law.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
6. you should be happy you are not living in.....
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 07:46 PM
Aug 2014

i have heard that too many times from men, when i call out sexism.

it does not negate the sexism in the u.s.

i am happy i live in the u.s. that is ahead in some ways, than any country. not as much in other ways. and beyond some other countries. so.... where we excel only help out the women in other countries. and where we lag, we are helped out by the countries that forge ahead

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
7. No doubt
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 07:50 PM
Aug 2014

My question is always, "Is that the standard we've set for ourselves? So long as we aren't stoning rape victims for adultry, it's OK?"

Response to gollygee (Reply #7)

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
16. Certainly hasn't kept people from using it a million times
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 10:35 PM
Aug 2014

Like BainsBane pointed out, they use the same bullshit logic when it comes to poverty, racism et al. Or when LGBTs demand their rights the line is usually, "What do you want? A pony"?

Response to theHandpuppet (Original post)

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