I can't help but notice

[BainsBane]

You know all the times members of this group have been accused of not caring about "real" issues, that we aren't "real feminists" who care about important rights? We've been told as much by the legions of "escorts" at abortion clinics and "real feminists" who insist they care about "real" feminists issues, just not the trivialities members of this group focus on to "divide" Democrats. Well, I can't help but notice that those "real feminists" and abortion clinic escorts are largely absent in the discussions of the recent SCOTUS decision, that is if they aren't actively engaged in trivializing it. Perhaps women's reproductive freedom isn't just "real" enough to bother?

[mercuryblues]

1. maybe

some people are finally recognizing no matter how trivial they think the issue is, it all spills into the same feeding trough. Well that is what the optimist in me thinks.

The cynical 3/4's of me thinks it took a while to get the talking points.

[BainsBane]

3. The cynical 90% of me

Thinks what they really oppose is not HOF but feminism itself. HOF just provides a handy whipping girl.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. 100% of me thinks exactly that = HOF just provides a handy whipping girl.

[MadrasT]

2. This incident has very clearly exposed the true colors

Of people who actually give a shit about women and women's issues, and those who are just here to stir shit.

It is *crystal* fucking clear.

[freshwest]

4. Ignoring the need of half the population is surreal to us, but standard for a select few.

[sheshe2]

5. Well according to one poster I read...

"Wrong this is a womens' problem and has to be solved by women, maybe that's the problem."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025177524#post17

We are on our own here, BainsBane.

[BainsBane]

7. That's bad

Really bad. I'm glad plenty of people told him so, but it makes you wonder what it is he thinks he's doing here.

[passiveporcupine]

10. so racism toward blacks needed to be solved only by blacks?

White people should not have gotten involved? And gays...no straight people can stand up for them?

Where do these people come from?

[sheshe2]

11. That would be my conclusion from that response.

I haven't a clue where the mentality comes from. We are in this together and if we try to stand alone we lose.

[hopemountain]

6. stunned, then pissed, and

then a whole lot of bullshit from my past reared it's gruesome head - fucked up shit.
but, i swear, today, i have zero tolerance for misogynist bullshit. zero.

[Dustlawyer]

8. I am probably more cynical than the average person because I think that the PTB are using the

Anti-abortion zealots to whip the country in a frenzy over this issue to keep their issues out of the media. They use the gun battle for the same reason, as a distraction to keep the parties at each other's throats and mad at each other while Wall Street is off the grid and doing very well.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not trivializing either issue. They use all social issues for the same purpose. I know I sound like a broken record, but I if I am right about one thing, and I am, if we can take the money out of politics, either through the Constitutional Amendment route that has already begun to overturn Citizen's United and Money does not equal speech (please add Publicly Funded Elections), or massive pressure and focus on this issue of electoral bribery, we can fix things like this.

Americans overwhelmingly support keeping guns at home, background checks etc., and a majority support a woman's right to choose, along with equal pay. If we had Representative Democracy these would not be the problems they are today! The NRA would not be able to pass the "Guns Everywhere" law in Georgia that 70% of Georgians do not want. Republicans could not do all of this alone. They buy off Democrats as well. Republicans have decimated Unions and Trial Lawyers, formerly the 2 biggest source of Democratic campaign funds, and now they get a lot of their money from Wall Street! They are not "spineless," "asleep at the wheel," or whatever excuse is laid out as to why they let these things happen.

If you are truly pissed about the recent SCOTUS rulings then commit to do the one thing that can stop it and fix a myriad of equally serious issues facing this country by demanding COMP,ETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM and PUBLICLY FUNDED ELECTIONS! You can still fight for the other issues that matter most to you, but this is, like in the Hobbit, the one ring (issue) to rule them all!!!!

[BainsBane]

13. I wish you wouldn't have brought up the gun issue

Because it contradicts your entire argument. Gun policy is all about money for the gun manufacturers, and polls show the majority of Americans support additional gun controls. Clearly you care about it a great deal, which is your right, but this is not the group to make that argument in. That is the purpose of the gungeon. Since you chose an example that entirely benefits corporate America, it nullifies the rest of your post. Moreover, that you feel the need to raise an issue about gun ownership, something no rational human being believes is under attack, leaves me wondering what your problem is. At any rate, this is a feminist group, not the place to promote that crap.

I agree money is a central issue in politics, but when we have people who raise guns and my basic civil rights in the same breath, it's clear that the problem goes far beyond money in politics. In the future, if you really care about overturning Citizens United, don't mention guns when talking to progressive audiences, and for God's sake have enough sense not to bring that shit up in feminist save haven groups. Talk about a symbol of male entitlement. It's inconceivable to me that you can really be so tone deaf about your audience.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. I am inclined to give leeway for that, Baines. The rest of the post is on target.

Person started out on topic and went out on a tangent due to a subject they are passionate about. The post is respectful in tone.

We all come at this from different angles as long as we meet in the middle, I think it is all good.

[Dustlawyer]

17. One, this is a Progressive/Democratic audience discussing an issue especially close to the hearts

and minds of women.

Two, my example is merely to point out that we no longer have Representative Democracy that women and the rest of us can rely on to solve this issue politically by pointing out that despite a majority of Americans supporting reasonable restrictions on guns, our politicians still do nothing thanks to the NRA and their lobby. As you admit, "Since you chose an EXAMPLE that..." I believe that the gun issue is a perfect EXAMPLE of the point that I am trying to make because although around 90% of Americans support background checks on assault rifles, nothing happened politically because of the corruption of our electoral system that has destroyed our Representative Democracy. It is one of the clearest EXAMPLES that I could have used since it is next to impossible to get 90% of Americans to agree on anything. That is why I brought it up, for your information.

Three, the 2 EXAMPLES I mentioned are used to make my point, that people upset by this terrible decision (myself included), take a look at the underlying cause, electoral corruption, which causes many of our problems, a few of which are the attacks on women, their right to control of their own bodies, and their right to chose to either abort a pregnancy, or have the baby.

Four, feminist can certainly understand my point is addressing an issue that is very important to WOMEN, how to achieve what they want and deserve? You are the one making guns the ISSUE and accusing me of being tone deaf. The only thing I am promoting here is my belief that in order to assure that the will of the majority of the American people, which I believe to be on the Women's Rights side of the issue, be recognized by politicians and protected by law, we need to eliminate the legal bribery of those same politicians and regain our Representative Democracy. Get it now?

[BainsBane]

20. You are of course free to talk about what you want

but when you metnion guns and my civil rights in the same breath, as thought they occupied some equal plane of importance, you lose me. I am sure I am not the only one, but if what you care about is guns, my reaction doesn't matter.

[Dustlawyer]

21. While I do not like where we are as a country with gun violence and the open carry issues,

my overriding concern is that our politicians have been for sale legally, and has spiraled out of control to the point that Special Interests are running and ruining our country. The attack on women's issues is but one symptom of this problem. My point is to motivate the people upset by the recent SCOTUS decisions to look deeper for their solution. Trying to put pressure on Congress to fix those specific problems has not worked. I believe that every citizen upset that their politicians are not responsive to them, despite overwhelming numbers of people for or against a certain issue due to Special Interests money and Lobbyist, should recognize the Root Cause, money in our elections, and join me in fighting that fight.

As for guns, my 2 cents is that we need reasonable restrictions: background checks, licensing after a gun safety course, magazine size limits, no open carry, and the like. I do not subscribe to the "take all the guns" crowd for several reasons, not the least of which is it is not feasible and they are a part of the fabric of our country, to name a couple. But no, not my hot button issue as I have explained. With Representative government, Americans can decide what to do about guns, or not to do, I don't want the decisions to be made by Lobbyists and corporations.

[tea and oranges]

9. There's plenty to say about a right-wing coup against women perpetrated

by the 5 authoritarians on the Supreme Court, but for the life of me, BainsBane, I'm so heartsick I can barely speak of it. I've lived long enough to have been a part of the 2nd wave.

If the right is not stopped, we will witness that women's rights are indeed human rights. I'll risk being a bore by saying once again that gaining dominion over women is one of the most important first steps in the transition to fascism.

[MadrasT]

12. The day any man has dominion over me, it will literally be over my dead body.

Fuck this noise.

We are NOT going back. They may try, but ultimately they WILL fucking FAIL.

[Squinch]

14. I very seriously agree with you on this. I had not thought of it that way before, but now that I

have, I realize that is the length I would go to as well.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. I believe you are right

I inherited the benefits from the efforts of the second wave. The Dominionists started to inflict their pain as retaliation when I came of age.

Atwood warned us. She warned us. So did Naomi Wolfe and Susan Faludi.

ETA - you aren't boring me. I truly believe that heart of the Modern Republican movement towards turning back the clock is deeply rooted in the teachings of Rushdooney.

[tea and oranges]

19. There are many contributors...

If the right wing is unchecked, they tend towards fascism. It's their nature.

They've certainly had enough freedom in the US to redefine what the word means & now they're trying to perpetrate their freedom (hatred) & their religion (hatred) upon the rest of us.

Forcing women to be chattel is the totalitarian male's way of bonding w/ the men they wish to oppress. It's worked well for them in the past & currently in the most backwards nations on this planet.

One of the most shocking bits about scotus' decision in re HL is the acceptance of birth control as abortifacients. Science has been demoted by scotus to the level of truth: something the loudest voice in the room defines.

As a young woman locking herself to fences for the ERA, I never imagined our present as the future.