Men Don't Recognize 'Benevolent' Sexism: Study

[seabeyond]

On average, subjects recorded two derogatory terms, two sexist comments, 1.5 expressions of negative beliefs about women and 1.5 expressions of seemingly positive but in fact sexist thoughts about women each week. Swim recalled that one female participant reported a complete stranger had walked up to her in a laundromat and asked if she would fold his laundry because she'd be better at it. This kind of sexism is "ambiguous," Swim said, and "people don't know if they're kidding, so we discount them one after another." "If you document it and are confronted by a group of instances of sexism, then people start to see the unseen," she added.

The prevalence of sexism -- benevolent or hostile -- was not the study's primary focus, nor its major reveal. The more significant finding had to do with how men and women's beliefs about sexism changed after they became aware of its prevalence. In addition to asking participants to record instances of sexism, researchers also evaluated the degree to which subjects tolerated sexist behavior. Researchers found that after recording the sexist incidents they observed, women were more likely to deem the behavior less acceptable. Men, on the other hand, continued to endorse sexist behavior even after becoming more conscious of it. But when asked to empathize with the female targets of specific sexist incidents, male participants were less likely to sanction blatant sexism. In one example, men who were told to consider women's feelings were less likely to think women overreact when responding negatively to sexist behavior. When it came to instances of benevolent sexism, though, men's attitudes did not change. According to Swim, men did not consider statements including "a good woman should be put on a pedestal" or "in a disaster, women should be saved before men" to be sexist.

Becker and Swim's research provoked outrage in some quarters, aided by loaded headlines like this one in the UK's Daily Mail: "Men who hold open doors for women are SEXIST not chivalrous, feminists claim." Criticism focused on the researchers asking participants to identify seemingly well-intended male behavior as discriminatory. Anna Rittgers, a blogger for the conservative Independent Women's Forum, wrote that she first thought the study was a hoax and that she was "beginning to suspect that the modern feminist movement is actually comprised of a bunch of honest-to-goodness misogynists whose goal is to make women look ridiculous." The Irish blog Joe.ie It's Man Stuff sardonically wrote, "Great work ladies, we'll be sure to get you both a beer in recognition of your service if you ever pop over to Dublin. You'll have to pay for it though, obviously." And blogger Mockarena, co-founder of the Chicks on the Right blog, wrote, "I don't know about you all, but it is VERY HARMFUL TO ME when my husband insists on driving during long road trips. I am TOTALLY PSYCHOLOGICALLY DAMAGED when he tells me he can't live without me. And I feel deeply discriminated against when he has the AUDACITY to fix the brakes on my car."

Glick, co-author of the original study on benevolent sexism, said he worries that benevolent sexism has become a caricature to the media and public. "We don't think that men should no longer be polite," he said. "Often chivalrous behavior is appropriate. It is just important to know when you are crossing the line." "Women themselves ignore sexism, and part of it is a coping mechanism," Swim said. "You want to live your life." But ignoring sexism has consequences, she said. Often the acceptance of subtler forms of sexism can lead to the acceptance of broader forms of gender discrimination. According to Glick, benevolent sexism can often unintentionally become hostile sexism when a woman breaks out of her assumed role. He used the workplace as an example. If a man offers to help a female coworker set up an office computer, Glick said, and she accepts, she is perceived as warm, but lacking a level of competence. If she politely refuses, however, she is often viewed as a "bitch." Men who accept help are also seen as vulnerable, Glick said, but they do not suffer the same repercussions for trying to do things on their own.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/27/men-dont-recognize-benevolent-sexism_n_885430.html
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i have another OP up discussing this issue. and a snork at benevolent sexism. lol. i get that. and it reminded me of this study. so, i am bring it back up

[PDJane]

1. Oh, yeah, I get it.

Although I will say that the overt forms of sexism have diminished since I was a child (thank the feminist movement), the underlying attitudes haven't changed all that much. It has taken me some time to realize that it's been less than a hundred years since this stuff became unacceptable in the developed world, and it's going to take more time for it to sink in to the consciousness of the public. Then I look at religion, and realize we have a long road still to go.

I'm a bitch, you know; if people assume things, I get cranky. I'm old, and fat, and move more slowly than I would like, and often get completely discounted. I've managed to drum that out of most of the people I come in contact with on a regular basis, but it still happens more than I would like.

I think that we get so accustomed to the background noise that we stop fighting. It's an error.

I'm reading a book called Willful Blindness by Margaret Hefferman; it's about ignoring the obvious and the things we do in crowds. It's interesting, and important.

[MadrasT]

2. !!!!!!!!!!!

This sounds fascinating.

I'm reading a book called Willful Blindness by Margaret Hefferman; it's about ignoring the obvious and the things we do in crowds. It's interesting, and important.

(runs off to find a place to order it)

[seabeyond]

6. HEY... hold onto the name for the next book club. i want that too

and it sounds like a very good book to slowly go over.

[MadrasT]

10. You and me, sea, we like studying people.

[seabeyond]

15. ya. nt

[PDJane]

44. One of the interesting things is that there is a reason for the 40 hour work week;

Every study done has proven that, after 40 hours, we lose effectiveness, and that the 'ability to multi-task' is an urban myth. There are also studies proving that money manipulates people, and the more of it we have, the less empathy we have. it also proves that there was so much fraud in the system, it got easier to ignore because 'everybody is doing it,' and people were working so many hours that they didn't have the capacity to exert moral strength. It's increasingly important.

[rrneck]

3. "It is just mportant to know when you are crossing the ine."

Where is the line?

[seabeyond]

9. if you actually took into cosideration

what i have seen people say to you, including myself, instead of telling women why they are wrong, then maybe that question would not be so tough for you.

[rrneck]

33. It isnt difficult at all for me.

How about you? Where do you think the author of the piece you presented draws the line? Do you agree with where it is drawn?

[rrneck]

43. Well

since you are unwilling to offer a starting point, I'll start. (Since I'm at a wifi hotspot with a laptop right now. I hate typing one fingered on a phone)

So here is the rule that defines the line between solicitous and sexist behavior: Don't be condescending. That's it. That is as close as we can get in any meaningful way to defining "benevolent sexism".

Condescension depends on the relationship between the participants in a given interaction regardless of its nature or the gender of the participants. Among the myriad variables that establish the context of the relationship, gender is only one. The people most able to tell if one is condescending are the participants themselves or perhaps those present at the interaction and who have a relationship with the participants.

It is certainly possible to be condescending in a gender specific way, and there is nothing benevolent about it. Whether or not one is being solicitous or insulting again depends on an evaluation of the person in question in the context of the interaction. The real question to ask is why would anyone even allude to something that might be mistaken for an a priori definition of "benevolent sexism"? Seeing the Unseen alludes to an empirical definition of the phenomena (seeing is believing) when it is little more than an exhortation to examine our feelings. The entire study piles all sorts and kinds of statistical analysis on top of the emotional impressions of undergraduate students. It gives the illusion of scientific analysis, when such feelings cannot be measured in any empirical way. Our feelings about another or some aspect of them, including their gender, determine whether or not we intend condescension. The other half of that equation is how our feelings are interpreted by the object of our solicitations. The context of the interaction is established by how we understand our feelings and how clearly others understand them. Such questions are better understood, and answered, with literature than science.

[MadrasT]

4. This is such a tough one for me to navigate.

"Benevolent sexism" pisses me off to no end.

But sometimes, it is hard to distinguish it from a normal act of consideration that one human being does for another.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are extending kindnesses to me as one human being to another (and not because I am female). I won't react badly or call them out on it unless it is *clearly* sexist.

Still having an internal dilemma over my boyfriend always insisting on walking on the traffic side of the sidewalk in the city (to put himself between me and the cars). First time he did it I said "that's ridiculous" and he basically said "That's how I roll, so deal with it."

He is *clearly* doing it because I am a female, he is a male, and he thinks he has to "protect" me.

It aggravates me every time, but I haven't had the courage to kick up a fuss over it.

Yet.

I want to just have a conversation about it, where he hopefully can explain to me why he thinks he needs to do that. (What is it that makes that "correct" in his mind? His mom told him to do it? He thinks it's good manners? Why? I am really curious.)

I think it would be an interesting conversation. (Rather than making it into a confrontation over something relatively minor in the scope of life.)

[redqueen]

7. I'm with you on this.

Politeness and consideration rock. But it should apply to both sexes.

When men wait for me to get on an elevator first or hold the door open and wait for me I always just say thank you, but I am always uncomfortable, and I wish there was some way to let them know that it really isn't fair or necessary. Let alone desirable. But then I suppose there are 'old fashioned' types who would like it.

Is it wrong of me to think of those types in the same way that I do people who grew up with widespread racism, and homophobia, and are 'old fashioned' about those things?

[seabeyond]

13. lmfao. ok, a big puddle of water who will get more wet, lol.

i am thinking if a car jumps over the curb, he is not gonna be the only on hit.

but, you are right on this. the last time we had this discussion on this thread, my son had started dating. and talking about the do's and donts. was interesting. cause what do you tell a boy to meet the girls expectation to not be labeled a cad, yet not do the benevolent sexism.

i think the example in the other thread, of not getting a position as a supervisor cause the boss to a father role is much more obvious, and damaging.

[PDJane]

14. Oddly enough, the reason that practice came about wasn't for protection of the woman against traffic

It was because people emptying chamber pots out of upstairs windows could make a city stroll quite dangerous......

[seabeyond]

16. that is right. i remember. thanks for that. ya. nt

[redqueen]

18. Oh gross...

so wait, you mean... The woman would walk on the building side so as to bear the risk of being hit with the dumped contents of said pots?

[seabeyond]

20. no. closer to building less likely to get it. it was protecting her

from getting sloshed. the man took it.... lol

[redqueen]

24. Ohhhhhh... now I see it...

I saw the title cut off, 'not about protecting the woman' and got the wrong idea.

[Common Sense Party]

5. Am I sexist for holding doors open for women?

I sometimes hold them for men, too.

[sufrommich]

8. Why does gender have anything to do

with holding doors open? I hold them open whenever anyone is close behind me, regardless of gender.

[redqueen]

12. I do the same, I thought this was the kind where men hold the door open

and wait for you to go through first.

I hope its not too weird that when this happens to me in an area with two sets of doors, I will hold the next door open for the guy who held the first one open for me. I'm hoping to instill the same discomfort so that they will consider why they do it.

[Common Sense Party]

30. If it's someone right behind me, I'll hold it open, too, regardless of gender.

But yes, if I notice a woman is coming, I was taught to hold the door open for her and wait until she has passed through.

I'm too old a dog now to unlearn that habit.

I guess I'm going to keep pissing women off with my sexist courtesies.

[seabeyond]

32. I'm too old a dog now to unlearn that habit.

and everyone who is "I'm too old a dog now to unlearn that habit. " gets a pass, in my books. but, i am not seeing many in this hot bed of feminists getting "pissed" off. so i doubt that you are doing it in the real world.

but

the point of benevolent sexism. does it make a little more sense if you are up for a position that will put a woman in a locked building by herself thru out the night and she does not get the promotion because the boss has a fatherly concern for her safety. denying her promotion, more money and advancement.

i think those are the more critical instances people have to be more watchful about.

it isnt the bosses responsibility to be the female employees father

[Common Sense Party]

39. Yes, those are more critical instances. That can affect a woman's livelihood,

career, family, future, etc. I agree completely.

A door held open really won't change her life in any way. At best it might brighten that minute.

[seabeyond]

40. that is really how i see it.

and though it can really effect a womans life, this is not done but with the best of heart. so, awareness is the key.

[sufrommich]

36. Honestly, us old dogs do a lot of things you don't see

anymore, it doesn't bother me when a man holds a door open for me. However, I taught my son to hold doors open and give up a seat to the old and infirm, I like that gesture better.

[redqueen]

11. You do it for men only sometimes, but for women always?

If so, then possibly yes, you might be doing it for sexist reasons. That doesn't mean you *are* sexist though.

[seabeyond]

17. the hand on the back and guiding. THAT bugs the ever loving shit out of me. i dont need no one

to be guiding me. i can figrue out the direction i need to go all by myself. that truly is one that can die out

[redqueen]

19. Ugggggh.

I find that creepy and do not appreciate that at all. At least the men who open doors and stand aside are just trying to be nice.

That touching shit Is. Not. Right.

[Common Sense Party]

23. Eww. THAT I would never do. Does that happen often?

That's going past "polite" into "cop-a-feel" territory.

[seabeyond]

26. yes. not so much now that i have a hubby, and he doesnt do it. but single, yes..... everywhere.

dates where always doing it and i would step away from them to stop it.

[Common Sense Party]

21. I was taught it was a show of respect and courtesy.

It's not that I think the woman is not capable of doing it herself. I'm just trying to be polite.

I'll freely admit I'm more likely to hold the door an wait for a woman to enter than I am for a man. That's how I was raised. I will, however, go through a door and hold it open behind me if I see a guy coming, so he won't have to lunge for the closing door handle.

I will also hold the door open for any elderly person, regardless of gender. I suppose that is ageism on my part.

I'd hate to think we've gotten to the point where simple courtesies are now frowned upon as evidence of sexism. If so, then I'm too old-fashioned.

[seabeyond]

22. and i would give you a big smile and say thank you

clearly, and enough for you to hear. what bugs me as much is when a man does that and the woman does not acknowledge.

yes, it all gets trippy

i tend to do was you with most, walk in and hold door. for older, slower people i will stand out and hold door and let them pass thru first

[Common Sense Party]

25. It doesn't bother me if the woman doesn't acknowledge.

Most do, but I'm not doing it for the thanks or praise. But yes, it is nice, when--whether it's a man or woman--we get to have a small, human interaction during a day when perhaps we don't have too many otherwise.

[MadrasT]

27. I think those small, human interactions are nice, too.

I hold doors for people all the time, and when people hold them for me I always say "thank you".

It doesn't cost me anything to smile and say "thank you".

[seabeyond]

29. agreed. nt

[redqueen]

28. Yes, I know it's done as a courtesy, and that's why I smile and say thanks & don't kick up a fuss.

But it does make me uncomfortable, I can't help that. I'm trying to think of an analogy... what if you visited some place where there was an underclass that had to bow and scrape for you as a matter of custom. Wouldn't that make you feel uncomfortable?

Holding doors for people with their hands full makes sense. Or for people with mobility issues. But my sex isn't a hindrance so it just feels unfair and wrong. Holding the door so I won't have to reopen it if I'm close behind is just good manners and something we all should do. But the other thing I think should be only for cases where its needed. Just MHO.

[seabeyond]

31. but, this is where it gets tricky. i was always taught to expect to go first. so you have people

following traditional rules. one doesnt follow and there can be a real clusterfuck, of all going at the same time, lol

[redqueen]

34. Yeah, I know.

It just doesn't make sense to me, those things like holding doors and waiting, pulling out chairs... are we pretending at royalty, some kind of cruel imitation of superiority (ironic, considering reality) or what? It's just bananas.

[seabeyond]

35. ya, well, the whole pulling out the chair allows two hands swoop over ass to straighten

out the dress so it is not all wrinkled and then trying to scoot up to the table in heals and not mess up the sittin' on the dress. lol. it is some hard work, there.

[sufrommich]

37. Oddly enough, I think a lot of these gestures started out

as help for women in huge skirts with whale bone corsets.

[seabeyond]

38. definitely. i am sure. nt

[redqueen]

41. This part really resonates with me.

"Women themselves ignore sexism, and part of it is a coping mechanism," Swim said. "You want to live your life." But ignoring sexism has consequences, she said. Often the acceptance of subtler forms of sexism can lead to the acceptance of broader forms of gender discrimination. According to Glick, benevolent sexism can often unintentionally become hostile sexism when a woman breaks out of her assumed role.

[MadrasT]

42. That is basically the crux of the matter.

If it is OK for men to treat us differently because we are women sometimes... it establishes a baseline that it is OK to treat us differently because we are women, period.

I don't want different treatment because I am female. For me, that goes for both the "perks" of being female (if you can call them that) and for the bad things that happen to women.

[seabeyond]

45. a lot of times i will tell my boys/men, this is not a big deal, but you recognize, this is sexism

this leads into a discussion and them saying, wow, never saw it like that.

i think we can bring awareness without accusation.

[gaspee]

46. So how do you

Not give up in the face of this. Which I didn't need a study to tell me.

[seabeyond]

47. thru out the thread, in discussion with others, you could see how we do not give up on this

imo, it is speaking up and out to it, each and every time. as hard as that is.

i was at an auction house. 8 months preg. with my mom. in her environment, with her people. in the panhandle of texas.

a caricature of a black man with a painted face and white lips was held up. the white auctionaire turned to his black helper and said.... you might want to cover your ears, you might not want to listen. it may be offensive for you.

he drew attention to this man in the most humiliating, embarrassing, offensive manner. imo.

i sat up, and i said in front of everyone, calling attention to me, if it was not offensive to that man, it is offensive to me.

the auctionaire put the piece away, and said he would leave it alone.

i looked to my mom to see if i embarrassed her. i was embarrassed. it was hard. i did not want ot do it. but, i could not sit there and watch no one speak out, the bidding start and go on, when such an uncomfortable atmosphere was created for this black man, standing there, facing a room full of whites.

it would have been nice if i was not the only one speaking up.

how we combat it, is by bringing awareness to the issue. always. silence does not work for us.

thru out the thread we discuss it. it does not have to be angry. aggressive. attacking.

it can just be said. out loud.

imo