Atheist / freethinking women spoke with their words, and now they will speak with their actions.

[redqueen]

It's not the fault of the women calling out the sexism/misogyny, DJ... it's the sexism and the misogyny.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/05/31/dj-please-fix-this-genuine-problem/

The Amazing Meeting is having some enrollment problems — and strangely, they are going against the overall trend I’ve seen in many skeptic/atheist conferences, as reported by the JREF president, DJ Grothe.

…this year only about 18% of TAM registrants so far are women, a significant and alarming decrease, and judging from dozens of emails we have received from women on our lists, this may be due to the messaging that some women receive from various quarters that going to TAM or other similar conferences means they will be accosted or harassed…I think this misinformation results from irresponsible messaging coming from a small number of prominent and well-meaning women skeptics who, in trying to help correct real problems of sexism in skepticism, actually and rather clumsily themselves help create a climate where women — who otherwise wouldn’t — end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe, and I find that unfortunate.

There it is, in one paragraph: the problem AND the cause. Only it’s not the cause DJ thinks it is.

It’s unfortunate. Years ago, TAM was a leader in getting a wider range of people motivated and attending — it was the meeting with the smallest percentage of old white men like me attending, and I considered it a nice model for getting more diversity in the movement. I also have to give DJ credit; he’s really gone to bat to get more women represented on the stage. I don’t think DJ has a malicious, anti-woman bone in his cheerfully gay body. It’s also good to see that he sees declining female registrations as a serious problem, and feels some urgency in correcting it.

...

First of all, when women are talking about harassment problems, listen: don’t try to tell them that they really shouldn’t feel that way, and worst of all, don’t treat it as a mere perception problem. Your concern should be to address the root causes so that their complaints disappear, not merely wave your hands at them to rationalize a stance of ignoring them. Think, “Hmmm. These people have concerns, how can I address them?” not, “Hmmm. These people have concerns, how can I get them to stop expressing them?”

...

After Rebecca Watson calmly suggested that men check their behavior for privilege and entitlement, the atheist net exploded with rancor. How dare she? Well dare she did, and lots of people finally realized just how deeply ingrained these issues are.

The women in the atheist movement didn't shy from speaking their minds. They didn't coddle the unenlightened, afraid to upset them with their truth-telling. They laid it out there and whoever had a problem being confronted with uncomfortable truths was expected to deal with it like an adult.

Now we are seeing more than just talk.

We need more of this, everywhere. Women have to stop rolling their eyes, or kowtowing to other women who wish to police our behavior for 'niceness'.

As we've seen repeatedly, the diversions, distractions, strawman arguments, etc. are legion. The effort to maintain the status quo is not coming from the right only, it is everywhere. And the people defending it are dead set against things changing, so the blowback for standing up to a culture that treats women like decorations and playthings first, and everything else second (if at all) is severe and immediate. The access to women's bodies that is currently enjoyed is something people are prepared to sacrifice many principles to continue. Lie, cheat, twist words... whatever has to be done is being done... and the fact that most of the women 'choosing' to sell access to their bodies do so due to a lack of opportunity will be glossed over and ignored for as long as possible.

Nothing will change as long as people shrug their shoulders and try to 'get along' for the sake of whatever other movement is oh-so-very-much-more important than the idea of women being treated like people instead of like things.


Also be sure to read the whole thing, PZ Myers is one of the rare men who not only gets it, but is willing to actually say so out loud and in public.

[seabeyond]

1. i heard about this issue in this group. i wasnt this and i cant remember where, ... but it is

prevalent.

so, lets break this down.

the atheist attack teh religions for their misogyny in a way to attack the beliefs. and they have a huge issue themselves, yet cannot blame it on religion.

the progressives blame the repugs for war on women in so many ways and proclaim their feminism because they support women choices and rights. yet, we see the sexism and misogyny on du and oh.... flynt, stern, maher, moore and many more. they cant blame it on repug family values.

do you THINK it might go beyond any of this and be a mere patriarchy issue.

[redqueen]

2. Yep, it's a culture issue.

(had to edit this cause of your edit lol... I'm leaving the rest though because it needs to be said. Especially here on DU.)

I've seen plenty of women who call themselves feminists pretend like objectification isn't an issue. (Or maybe just not an important enough issue to actually... you know... call out. No, better to spend your time complaining about the few women who bother attempting to call it out, because really, what's more annoying than that?)

I guess those feminists need to contact NOW and tell them to get on board with the idea of women as things, because NOW has been fighting objectification for decades.

Or maybe just tell them to shut up, cause we wouldn't want to alienate anyone, now, would we?

I mean, just because half the population isn't fairly represented in politics, boardrooms, etc. ... that's not indicative of any systemic problem or anything. Pishaw.

I'm sure there are other things that are much more important than allowing girls to grow into women without being browbeaten with the message that no, they're actually things.

I'm sure there's some other movement or issue that's more important than this. There always is. Always.

[seabeyond]

4. i edited...

i didnt like the way it sounded either. and you are right.

further, if you were to peruse, you would see the same issues. though challenging on the main board, seems like it is recognized.

[seabeyond]

5. reality redqueen, in the 70's into the 90's people worked hard to know better

there was the effort from everyone to be better. this wasnt ok. it was late 90's and further that people started yelling about their RIGHT to do all this. what was it that changed in the late 90's

access to internet. 24 news. clinton and his damn penis. the repug and going over the line constantly. porn

[laconicsax]

3. K&R

[MadrasT]

6. How dare you loud obnoxious women complain

It's all your fault there is so much fighting here.

If you would just sit down and shut up there would be no problem.

[ManyShadesOf]

7. sorry wrong location

[ManyShadesOf]

8. ?

" ...this may be due to the messaging that some women receive from various quarters that going to TAM or other similar conferences means they will be accosted or harassed…I think this misinformation results from irresponsible messaging coming from a small number of prominent and well-meaning women skeptics who, in trying to help correct real problems of sexism in skepticism, actually and rather clumsily themselves help create a climate where women — who otherwise wouldn’t — end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe, and I find that unfortunate."

So women who "rather clumsily" report this are the cause for women - who otherwise wouldn't - end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe?