It's started. (HOF thread)

[gollygee]

My 11-year-old told me that yesterday at school (she's in 6th grade) she was getting a drink from the water fountain, and an 8th grade boy stopped, stroked her back, and yelled out to his friends, "Damn, this girl has some curves!"

She asked me why he would do that. I said that it's harassment and wrong, but that it isn't uncommon, and that no one has a right to touch her without her permission. She said her friends who were with her said she should feel flattered but she just felt weird. I told her that she could tell her counselor about it because it was absolutely wrong. She said she didn't think the counselor would do anything, that at least he didn't touch her butt, and that she didn't think anyone at school would see anything wrong with it.

She has not hit puberty and doesn't actually have curves yet, but I know that skinny on-the-cusp-of-puberty girls fit a societal beauty standard. And probably especially to boys around the same age. But the boy already thinks it's OK to touch her and say something.

I just feel bad that it's started for her already. And that she already feels powerless about it. I knew it would happen soon. I remember. I have to somehow encourage her to feel powerful.

Just a vent.

[Agschmid]

1. How old are they in those grades...

That is terrible, hopefully someone catches/reports the boys behavior and sorts it out.

[redqueen]

2. Yes, sexual harassment starts in elementary school.

It is unforgiveable that we as a society have ignored this shit for this long.

You might contact the counselor and let them know that something happened but that the student feels that it isn't worth reporting, that nothing would be done, etc. And suggest an awareness program educating kids about harassment - unwanted touching, inappropriate comments, etc. They have to know that this isn't an isolated incident and that the whole student body would benefit.

It really is illogical that this stuff is shrugged off for years. Education has to start in elementary school.

[nomorenomore08]

14. Not to hijack an important thread, but do you think that has any connection with the more publicized

anti-gay bullying? Like in both cases, they're harassing or abusing "feminine" individuals, because that's what a "masculine" boy or man is supposed to do?

[Squinch]

3. I am sure that there are those who think I would be overreacting when I say that

I would send an email to the principal about this. But I would.

Though it might not seem so, the ultimate authority in schools are the parents. I would send an email, and say this has happened, and say you want to make sure that the principal is aware that older boys in his/her school are touching younger girls inappropriately and uninvited.

I would insist that your child's confidentiality is honored, but I would suggest that the principal hold a session for both the boys and the girls in which inappropriate touching of each other is discussed, and the consequences for that inappropriate touching in school are laid out.

I would make it clear that any escalation in uninvited or inappropriate touching among students would reflect REALLY badly on the principal and he/she needs to nip it in the bud.

You probably won't get any results from this email. But you will definitely hear about something like this happening again. When you do, send another email and point out that there is an issue that isn't being addressed. Each time you hear about something, send an email. Then you have a paper trail, and can threaten parent action after your own child isn't the only target. If there is still no action taken, bring it to the PTA.

This isn't OK, and it's a great time for the kids to learn that in a non-threatening "here's-how-you-act-like-an-adult" way. It also institutionalizes non-acceptance of this in the school, which is a good thing.

Eta: I think I'd go right past the counselor on this. Your daughter doesn't need counseling. This isn't her issue. It is the school's issue, and the school should take responsibility for it.

[historylovr]

4. +1. I agree with you.

Take it to the principal.

[CrispyQ]

8. Excellent response. -nt

[mzteris]

9. email, hell . . .

I'd be there in person. I'd also pretty much insist on the name of the boy and pass that along, too. Though, having a school wide program would be necessary as well.

Program should not be segregated by "the sexes" - they're all people. They should be taught to treat each other with respect. Period. Without regard for race, creed, color, sex, or sexual orientation.

Bullying, harassment, inappropriate behaviour goes beyond boy on girl - a comprehensive program will address ALL behaviours that are acceptable and are NOT acceptable.

[Squinch]

11. I have no problem with going in person also, but I'd want a papertrail. Whatever is verbal can be

"forgotten."

And yes, they should be in the room together for the program. This way there is less chance for one group to say they misunderstood or did not get the same message.

[mzteris]

12. take the paper

have it signed.

Up close and personal. That's my modus operandi.

[Sweet Freedom]

5. I would definitely contact the school.

I'm glad your daughter confided in you. A lot of girls would have kept this to themselves. But now that she has, she may be looking to you to back her up. She did the right thing by talking to an adult, so I think it would be very powerful for her to see you stand up for her and show her how this should be handled. It will give her confidence and teach her how to stand up for herself. It will also teach her to speak up if she sees this happening to somebody else.

[gollygee]

6. OK I read the student handbook

and it does meet their definition of sexual harassment because it was unwanted or unsolicited sexual touching and/or remarks. We will contact the school. I'm going to talk it over with my husband and daughter. I don't want them to attack the boy who did it and make an example of him. I want them to increase their discussion of sexual harassment. He might not have known it was wrong, particularly as my daughter and her friends didn't seem to know it was wrong. It's like they put it in the handbook and did nothing else.

[gaspee]

7. About the age

It started with me. I think that's about when it starts for most girls.

Heh - I punched 'em in the face. The boys in my class who pulled that shit. Never even got suspended for it.

I do not recommend that as a coping strategy.

I played ice hockey and softball and work with my mason grandfather on weekends and summer.

But the boys saw boobies and lost their shit. Not a person, just boobies.

It wasn't the classmate boys I couldn't handle. It was the adult men. They weirded me out completely.

First time a dude ever flashed his junk at me, I was 12 and delivering newspapers and had to collect from customers. And old guy would always come to the door in his robe with it wide open.

I never told my parents because it was embarrassing and I just let the guy have his paper for free and never tried to collect.

I'm sure most women have stories similar to these. And the clueless wonder why we come off angry sometimes. Like we should just have no autonomy and not be pissed when men try to make us less than human.

[Squinch]

13. What I find so sad is that both you and I,

when we were flashed at that young age, had already been socialized to keep it a secret, to not say anything about it. I was with two friends when someone cut us off on a path in a woods and flashed us and tried to catch us. We scattered, and we were all fine, but there was no question among us that we would tell anyone. We never even discussed that possibility, even though we discussed the incident.

For myself, I knew the consequences of telling would be just too uncomfortable. Like you, I was too embarrassed. You and I both had somehow gotten the very clear message that having this done to us was something WE needed to take responsibility for by being embarrassed. For something that had been done to us against our will!.

That is what horrifies me.

And ours were such relatively minor incidents.

Imagine what these girls go through who are actually assaulted...

[MadrasT]

10. I'm sorry to hear this happened, gollygee.

It's the same age it started for me too.

It is not a fun thing to have do deal with this - I remember being very upset and confused and wishing the clock would turn back becaues I thought if growing up to be a "woman" meant I had to deal with that, I wanted no part of it.

[nomorenomore08]

15. Should be treated like any other form of bullying. With intervention, and punishment if appropriate.

Especially because, like other bullies, sexual harassers tend to escalate things when they get away with smaller stuff.

[ismnotwasm]

16. The cool thing?

We can speak up about now. It doesn't have to be "the way things are" anymore. Girls are still going to feel awkward and confused, and have their sexual feelings shamed or hidden, and boys are still going to learn inappropriate sexual aggression, but we don't have to take this shit anymore.

Good job Mom

[seabeyond]

17. gollygee, i am really glad you posted this. i wish it was a more popular subject.

i wish more people read it and really identified with the experience of your daughter. the experience that mothers, sisters, daughter will and do experience every. single. day. why it lacks an importance tells us a lot.

so much of society and media feeds these kids this shit. empowering the boys. unempowering the girls. literally. conditioning them they are things at the males disposal. this age is when it is really played out for the first time. the greatest gift we can give the kids, both our boys and girls is to call it.

they really are innocent, regardless of what society would like to convince us of. they really are just starting the journey of exploration in sexuality. and they are doing it from a base that they have absorbed thru media and experience, for the first time.

my youngest son went over the line. liking to be the funny one, and often very funny witty and clever, he went over the line. the principal heard, called me and we had a discussion. the kid really didnt get what he said, nor the offense, and we had conversation explaining why it was so wrong what he said. he still may not have fully understood, but what he did understand was the in his male privilege, he ahs an obligation to be sensitive in certain subject and certain behaviors would not be allowed, tolerated or excused away.

it was an excellent lesson for him. and it was a wonderful example to give to the kids in the know. it may have been embarrassing for my son, in the moment, but it was not harsh, or shaming, merely education.

trust your school. i have always had excellent interaction with teachers, councilor and principal. in my experience they listen. and it is an opportunity for all the kids.

let us know what has come of this. i am really curious how parents and schools handle this. this is where we win. in education, at this age, with awareness.